How to Deal with COVID19 Non-Believers in The Household?

Lgomelbcityfc on 25/03/2020 - 23:15
Last edited 26/03/2020 - 09:33 by 1 other user

My fellow OzBargainers, well may we say… (sorry wrong decade :)

So, I live in a household with my partner, teenage children, and an elderly person over 80 years (my mum). I also have older children and grand-children who come and go through the house at all times.

The problem is that the partner and teenagers refuse to acknowledge the seriousness of the situation. The teens work in well-known fast food chains (mcd) who do delivery and drive-thru only now. But the issue is one of them often works “in the box” (mcd lingo for the drive thru window where you take orders and payments), and likes it, so won’t request to be moved.

I have 2 main issues:

  1. The teen may get infected, which at this stage seems not so serious, or more importantly,
  2. She may bring the disease home and infect the 80-year-old, and with her existing medical issues, the result would be devastating, or
  3. She may also infect her young nephews or nieces, and we know they can get seriously ill too, and
  4. Lastly, I’m close to the big 6.0, so am slightly concerned for myself.

Whenever I try to talk to them it leads to arguments, the catalyst for my post tonight (shouting and slamming doors still ringing in my ears).

Now, if I had a holiday house Or could afford a hotel, the solution would be pretty easy, but since I cant afford either, how do I convince COVID19-deniers that this is dangerous, particularly for the elderly.

You can have your jokes, etc, Im pretty thick skinned, but if anyone has some serious ideas I would really appreciate them.

And the best of luck to everyone in the OzB community in trying to avoid this, or recover quickly if we do catch it.

Health & Beauty COVID-19

Comments

  • paraneoplastic on 25/03/2020 - 23:33
    +5

    My approach would be very blunt:

    If your teenage children old/smart enough to understand stats. Show them the data in the table here: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763667 , Ask them would they be ok if their grandma were to get sick, to have her death on their conscience being a direct result of their stupidity.

    From the data i've seen young children and adolscents there has been barely 10 deaths in the whole world - out of ~400K+ cases. People <19 are very good at fending off COVID19, in fact RSV has a higher mortality.

    Your child working in drive thru is ok, as long as they remember hand hygiene and to stay ~1.5m away from the person in the ordering window (that's the spray distance).

    • gomelbcityfc on 25/03/2020 - 23:42
      +3

      Yep, trying to get that through, but teens think they are bulletproof, with some exceptions, most dont think past their next insta post :)

      • HighAndDry on 26/03/2020 - 11:02

        shouting and slamming doors

        First one not so good, second one works. Keep a section of the house for the older person to use, keep the others away from there.

        Wear masks in the house and plenty of hand washing and wiping down surfaces with disinfectant.

  • PSPeter on 25/03/2020 - 23:43
    +4

    First off, if you're worried about your teen bringing something home then you should be equally worried about the other children coming and going all the time. This has to stop, only residents of the house should be there.
    Now let's talk about your teen, the best thing she can do is wash her hands and get changed straight after work before interacting with the rest of the family.
    You might not be able to change what they believe, but you can change how they behave.

    • gomelbcityfc on 25/03/2020 - 23:46
      -4

      Thanks, the other kids dont go to kinder, childcare, so little danger there. Besides its a pretty busy household, no way I could lock that down.

      • paraneoplastic on 25/03/2020 - 23:50
        +1

        In that case ensure grandma stays well clear and people wash hands before going near her,

      • abb on 26/03/2020 - 08:56
        +1

        no way I could lock that down

        Write "Quarantined" on the front door.

        Lock it.

        Do not open it.

      • HighAndDry on 26/03/2020 - 11:04

        Seems like you could use your own advice. You can get the virus from places other than kinder or childcare. And:

        Besides its a pretty busy household, no way I could lock that down.

        I hope that comforts you if, per paraneoplastic:

        Ask them would they be ok if their grandma were to get sick, to have her death on their conscience being a direct result of their stupidity.

  • pingualien on 26/03/2020 - 00:06
    +3

    if your kids don't listen to you pretend to kick them out of the house

  • donamique on 26/03/2020 - 00:17
    +3

    Perhaps try showing them this "sum it all up" video? It's fun, cute, educational, relaxing and well-made.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtN-goy9VOY

    Also maybe try empathy? A callout by healthcare workers around the world, print out these 3 pictures and paste them on your walls/doors -

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8145927/Doctors-dem…

    https://twitter.com/phyllisngure1/status/1242420422769082370…

    https://mothership.sg/2020/03/ttsh-stay-home-message-covid-1…

  • TheJoker on 26/03/2020 - 00:20
    +7

    I think you might need to take a step back and have a look at the bigger picture. If you and your partner aren't agreeing, have people of all ages from different household coming and going plus the young ones in child care, I really don't see how the teen in the drive through window is the weakest link here. I also have kids and I wouldn't expect them to take things as seriously as you'd like in this situation.

    You'd have to lead by example and lock it all down and also make them part of the process. While you and your partner aren't on the same page your kids are going to have a field day exploiting that one. Until you get the other things sorted there's no point at all in fighting with the teens.

    Given how active your house is your best bet might be to try and set your mother up in mini-quarantine. Maybe there's a bathroom that can be only hers, or she uses your bathroom, maybe you have a few TVs and one is dedicated to her, she has her own cupboard in the kitchen etc etc. Then ask everyone to sanitise often and respect the boundries. It might even help to ask the family to come up with some ideas on how to make it work.

    You could also sit them in front of your Mother and tell them to look her in the eyes while you ask "if she gets this, she could die. How can we protect her as best as possible for the next 6 months?".

    Good luck!

  • thatitguy on 26/03/2020 - 00:53
    +2

    Perhaps explain that something of this level has not been seen in either the teen's lifetime, your/the partner's lifetime, nor the grandparent's lifetime.

    We've had outbreaks in the past (eg: SARS), however they didn't send Australia and the entire world into lockdown.

    And they didn't cancel the F1, or postpone the Olympics till the next year.

    The current situation could only be the tip of the iceberg if people don't properly isolate and take this seriously.

    If they continue being blasé about it, and not washing their hands with soap frequently, then we will see the rest of the iceberg.

    But if they do their absolute best to take it seriously today - then that might be all that's needed.
    A short moment of inconvenience to make it better in the long run.

  • MagicMushroom on 26/03/2020 - 00:58
    -1

    Pretend you got COVID and keep coughing? Hopefully will make them little alerted and take things seriously.

  • Mechz on 26/03/2020 - 01:51
    +2

    Show them gruesome pictures of the dead.

  • nfr on 26/03/2020 - 02:50
    +4

    What's the argument about? She doesn't think she could get infected, or she won't spread it, or she thinks granny has good prognosis if infected?

    • gomelbcityfc on 26/03/2020 - 03:10

      Maybe first 2, 3rd not even thinking about it.

  • ozBFM on 26/03/2020 - 02:53

    Every morning go to the covid dashboard e.g. bing.com/covid

    Tell them total infected (we are close to half a mil now). Tell them dead. It currently has 4% death rate. And share these links:

    https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national/coronavirus/y…

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-covid…

    And then tell them it has already mutated and the second strain is much stronger. They are equally at risk of death.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9FkNPRwt_M

    And if possible, this is a long video, show them this. No matter even if they recover, their lungs will be messed up for life and may end up reducing their life span. We just dont know yet.

    https://youtu.be/PWzbArPgo-o

  • gomelbcityfc on 26/03/2020 - 03:05
    +2

    Man, Im getting a headache. But seriously, thanks to all for your advice. Im the only one in the household whos taking it seriously. My older daughter whos 35 still believes that its a media beat up, or some other conspiracy, that its no worse than any other seasonal flu. “Big Pharma” has been a conv topic many times, you know, the old “spread a disease, then make billions treating it” conspiracy.

    Different countries are taking different approaches to this, unfortunately Aust is in the “long term scaleable response” not in the “go in hard” response like s korea or japan (even if we dont believe chinas stats) who are seeing declines in new cases.

    I am all for the “go hard all in” response, and so are most doctors around the world, but politicians like to play politics.

    As for my situation, I have laid out all the facts to my family, the Hopkins U. charts and graphs, but I think my kids just dont realise how serious this can get. I guess theyre just stubborn (like their father??? LOL).

    Anyway Ive still got some masks from the 2003 SARS outbreak. Do surgical masks have an expiration date?

    Sorry Im babbling, its 3am. Good night.

    • cheaplee on 26/03/2020 - 06:58
      +1

      Surgical masks shouldn't expire.

      As for you being for the 'go hard all in' response, you said a few posts above it's a busy household and there is no way you could lock it down. These two statement seem contradictory. Not having ago, honest, but as was mentioned above there is so much division in your household you kids are never going to take it seriously. They will take the path of least resistance.

      Lock it down for the weekend. Go hard. No one in or out from Friday 6pm until Monday 8am. Lead by example and model the behaviour you want you kids to follow. I suppose next thing you have to think about is if you don't enforce hard enough and your teen does bring it home to your elderly mother, how guilty will you feel?

  • gomelbcityfc on 26/03/2020 - 03:06

    F*** it’s mutated? Thats a problem.

    • chartparker on 26/03/2020 - 07:18
      +1

      Yep, but it does seem to mutate slowly:

      “That’s a relatively small number of mutations for having passed through a large number of people,” Thielen said. “At this point, the mutation rate of the virus would suggest that the vaccine developed for SARS-CoV-2 would be a single vaccine, rather than a new vaccine every year like the flu vaccine.”

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/the-coronavirus-isnt-m…

  • garetz on 26/03/2020 - 03:28
    +5

    Teenagers barely have the mental faculty to reason logically, tell them if they will not take this seriously, then they should leave for a few months and go out and live on their own.

  • AustriaBargain on 26/03/2020 - 03:33

    Why don't you kick them all out.

  • Debuting on 26/03/2020 - 06:51
    +1

    Just be glad no one is trying to take the mickey and blame it all on you generalising the behaviour of teenagers.

    Of course she is not going to listen. You need to incentivise them, but before we get to that we need to look at why.

    You are either going to be one of the cooks or you are going to be one of the customer service employees. Cooking is probably one of the most demanding aspects of our lives; I'm going to assume you cook all your meals for your mum so ensure cleanliness and you know how hard it is, imagine doing that for a 3 hour shift or however long it is; you aren't going to be able to change this. In fact moving her to an area with lesser "air quality" away from the windows, might make her more vulnerable, increase stress, decrease the immune system overall.

    So, what can you do if that isn't going to change.

    First, you need to implement a cleaning regime. Get her to SMS/call you after work so you can get ready to open the doors and get her to the shower immediately. Be like a personal butler, this creates an incentive and builds rapport. You could disinfect the door handles afterwards but that's a bit hit and miss to be honest and by then she might already have done something else which doesn't involve going to her room to pickup clothes and enter the bathroom. Teenagers generally like to be clean. Get her to basically sleep on the bed afterwards and give her a relaxing environment. Don't be like aome people that just change their clothes and never shower until the morning. That's just stupid behaviour that's going to get people killed. The virus can stay active on your biggest organ, the skin. People are well aware of the effects of soap, I hope I don't have to explain the reasoning behind using it.

    My second recommendation is going to be harder because it requires them to wear some type of mask or have something to stop them rubbing the bridge of their nose or the area directly underneath. This is important because even asymptomatic carriers can spread the disease through the main attack vectors which are the eyes, nose and mouth; you can see the importance of this which has sadly been lost in our society. You could get her to wear a dust mask, but that's going to demoralise her. You're probably better off buying a bandana or something, but the goal is to stop the well-known transmission vector of nose to surface to nose. It doesn't need to be a N95 mask or need to take away from the medical system. That's why I don't understand why everyone isn't wearing a mask of any type. You just can't argue with it.

    BS for those who just say I came out and generalised this. That isn't the point.

  • edathor on 26/03/2020 - 07:15

    If asking them to do something doesn’t work, show them how it’s done. It’s really that simple.

  • [Deactivated] on 26/03/2020 - 08:42

    So far, isn't the biggest statistical risk older Australians deciding to go on cruises? Isn't the most deadly Australian transmission from old person to old person? The risk of coronavirus has been known for months, yet still they queued up due to cheap prices.

  • Youfah Mizzum on 26/03/2020 - 08:45
    +1

    You need to get out of there. It's people like these (deniers) who will just keep the infection curve going up & up. Not taking the iso rules seriously, or distancing rules.

    Do you have mates who can take you & Mum in?
    Anyone with a spare caravan?

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 26/03/2020 - 08:54

    I posted a differing opinion on another thread but none the less factually right, yet had quite alot of negative votes.

    Hence I just shu7 up and let the world go on especially on emotional issues like Covid19.

  • xuqi on 26/03/2020 - 09:39
    +1

    Teens love money.

    Ensure Granny writes her out of her will (and make this known to teenager) in the event of an untimely death due to Covid19.

  • Ocker on 26/03/2020 - 10:06
    +3

    I have a very simple rule in our/my house that covers such situations.
    I just tell them "it is my house and you play by my rules - if that doesn't suit then there's the door"

  • [Deactivated] on 26/03/2020 - 10:17
    -1

    Maybe the SJW catchcry of "My body, my choice" and teaching children in schools "I'm the boss of my own body" has backfired.

  • c64 on 26/03/2020 - 10:29

    you need to use torture very persuasive measures: play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se6BezB1IQo non-stop until they finally relent and proclaim they are beliebers!

  • rompastompa on 26/03/2020 - 10:32
    +2

    Here are a few resources you can show the family, specifically visit Next Strain to show the divergence / you can 'play' the spread and US total cases in the last week:

    Other additional things:

    • Put ABC news on all day. Just remember to turn it off before it gets too consuming;
    • Take them to the supermarket.. reality hits when you see all the empty shelves;
    • I haven't looked up some resources on what to tell your teenagers, but I don't think you'd want to "shock" them into understanding;
    • Australia has never escalated to "Level 4: Do not travel" Travel Advice;
    • Our states have never closed borders within each other;
    • The statistics we see are not 'full' statistics, for example Indonesia has only had 2756 tests, so once they do some proper testing, the results will be significantly higher;
    • The statistics are likely a week old as most cases do not show symptoms to get tested;
    • Many countries have not had the ability to test, so once again, statistics will be higher than reported;
    • Look at the recovered/mortality rate of Italy at the moment.

    I reiterate, be delicate with the information. You don't want the family to become depressed when reality sinks in. Share some positives such as:

    • Less global pollution;
    • Global health standards may increase;
    • We may become less materialistic/wasteful;
    • Become a cashless society;
    • More hygienic;
    • More industry kept in Australia rather than outsourcing;
    • Part of a historic event - something that your teens can reflect on when they're grandparents!
  • floppy on 26/03/2020 - 10:36

    how big is your house? can you close off a portion of it for your mum to live in and only for people who abide by the rules (i.e. wash hands and wear masks).
    if your kids really care about their grandma they would follow the rules. as even if it was a 'conspiracy' or 'hoax' then worst case scenario is they improve their hygiene and learn that older people are more prone to catch any sort of illness from the youth, be it the common cold or a much more severe flu.

  • Ryanek on 26/03/2020 - 10:55

    When it comes down to it, all these preventive measures is to keep our health network sustainable.

    Tell them if our hospitals are at full capacity and they get into an emergency outside of the virus - like a car accident for example, then they're stuffed.

  • Daniel Plainview on 26/03/2020 - 10:58

    With all due respect this isn't a situation needing a 'special' approach for CV19 - it's just a fundamental parenting issue. It could be anything really where a parent is saying essentially, I know better and please do what I say - and the child is simply disregarding. There's a fundamental disrespect via the refusal.

    And honestly thats a very big thing to overcome - as I would imagine this isn't the only area where it manifests itself. It's whats been allowed for yrs, so turning it around now will be near impossible.

    All you can do is via face to face talk make it clear this is whats happening, this is why it's happening - its not up for debate - if they want to try and find a workaround you'll try to find that with them IF the primary goal is 100% still achieved. But other than that its not up for debate or negotiation. If it's not complied with you need to explain in advance you'll impose extreme penalties (whatever will get the most reaction e.g confiscating their phone or car or whatever it takes).

    It'll go down like a shower of crap but thems the breaks and you'll just have to ride that out for a few days.

    You need to not waver at ALL - not one iota. Sounds silly but you have to think of yourself as the Govt in this situation and your home is the country, if they don't comply there will be ramifications, explain why you're doing it and hopefully your child will have enough common sense and empathy to comply eventually. But just don't back down once you've started or you've just made it much harder and shown to them you have no resolve.

  • moo on 26/03/2020 - 11:30

    Whenever I try to talk to them it leads to arguments, the catalyst for my post tonight (shouting and slamming doors still ringing in my ears).

    More importantly, R U OK? Understanding that you're trying to get them to understand the seriousness and impact of Covid19, equally as important is the mental health of the household. Unfortunately self isolation will have societal and psychological impacts. Might be also worthwhile reaching out to a counselling service such as EAP if your workplace provides it, as it might give you a different perspective on how to better manage it.

  • trapper on 26/03/2020 - 11:31

    First get your wife onside. She doesn't need to agree about everything, but she does need to understand that you intend to take this seriously and to not undermine you.

    Now lay down the law on your teens.

    They do what you say, or they find their own place to live.

  • Webber000 on 26/03/2020 - 13:34

    Offer to pay the teen (whatever they would earn at McDonald's) the same to stay home if you are seriously worried.
    Www.skynews.com has an article with videos as they were given exclusive access to an Italian hospital. Make them watch it. It shows people struggling to breathe and lying on the floor in corridors as they were out of beds.
    Very hard to overcome the "she'll be right" attitude but try to get them to relate to your 80 year old being the one in that hospital.

  • lainey13 on 26/03/2020 - 21:20

    There's a hotline number to call to report people flaunting quarantine. You could get some coppers sent over…

  • fossilfuel on 26/03/2020 - 22:07

    The problem is that the partner and teenagers refuse to acknowledge the seriousness of the situation.

    Ask this kind lady to give them a stern talking.

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