I don’t know if she’s serious but she has asked the question. She said she will retire soon and can’t afford to live alone. She said the reason she has no savings was because she was a single mother?
I hate this lady. What is my obligation? Or what can I say?
'Basic'… probably ranked in the top 10 out of 160+ countries….
A base rate of $450 per week for Sydney is basic.
No need to cause anxiety
No need for excuses
No need to discuss with MIL
Just dont build the granny flat
Don't do this! You 2 will end up hating each other for the rest of your life. MIL is an uncontrollable animal and she can manipulate your wife.
You probably will become a homeless single dad few years later because you are the only "alien" or "enemy" in the house.
What sort of advice are you after? This is obviously something that you'll need to discuss with your wife. If your wife is adamant that she stays with your family then you're going to have a standoff - your hatred for your MIL, your wife's love for her mother, and your love for each other. The weakest link will break.
Actually the most sensible piece of information here
Stop being a simp.
DO NOT DO IT!
My dad is dealing with something similar now with my mum and her 80 year old mother. It's driving him crazy, my mum and her mum instantly agree on any issue, my grandmother has basically become a stand in for the companionship my dad used to provide and it's a messed up situation, it's caused a massive rift between my parents because my dad is constantly outnumbered. She helps around the house and contributes to the bills but it's just not worth it. (she only moved in about 2 years ago.)
Just don't refuse to fund the cost of it. Or say you have other plans for the backyard.. She might claim it's a joke but I assure you she's just testing the water to see what reactions are, if it comes up again just flat out say no, that won't work.
Ok!..thanks for sharing your story.
The question is a little close to home for us at the moment.
My MIL is on the pension and was a single mum ego didn’t manage to get back into the workforce after kids. She’s moved further and further out in regional Victoria chasing cheap rent.
She hasn’t asked to live with us, as we wouldn’t last five minutes together. What we decided to do was purchase a small unit in Ballarat - nothing special, but secure and reasonable, with decent solar installed. She will rent it from us at what is pretty much market rent, but she won’t have a power bill. We have a rental agreement and she could have someone else share if she wants.
We can negative gear the property, she gets a secure place to rent for the rest of her life, her rent pays our mortgage, and she’s far enough away we don’t drive each other crazy. She can catch the local bus when she can’t drive, can catch a regional train to Melbourne in just over an hour and the risk of her homelessness (education is serious in older single women) is eliminated.
If your gut says no to a granny flat, or if you’re even slightly unsure, don’t do it! But don’t rule out other options straight away.
We own an investment property but I wouldn’t want to risk it as she could say she can’t pay the rent this time and would go on how we have money.
The reason we have money is because we work hard and sacrifice a lot. We are not living the ‘life’ only the Ozbargain life if you know what I mean.
I wouldn’t want to risk it as she could say she can’t pay the rent this time and would go on how we have money.
If you distrust/hate her that much then just tell her to (profanity) off, I don't see why this is something you need to lose more sleep about.
I’m definitely losing sleep. I’m embarrassed and almost scared to confront her because of the wife’s reaction.
@Tomstars241: I think your feelings are your best guide. If you're feeling embarrassed about what you're going to say, then I think that says plenty about what you're about to say.
Anyway, I personally don't even think it's the MIL that's the issue for you. Seems like you have problems with being open and honest with your wife and the situation with your MIL is just a result of that lack of communication.
Honestly, maybe the best outcome for you is to just not say anything. It's not like she's demanding this flat to be built tomorrow.
@Tomstars241: You are scared to discuss this with your wife due to her potential reaction.
This does not sound good.
You dismiss this idea without even investigating payroll deduction / pension deduction.
No offence but it seems you hate this person and your hatred for them is making you refuse to see what could be potentially viable alternatives.
Really it seems you want OzBargain to say "We agree with you" so it gives you some moral fortitude of basically offering nothing to the mother of your wife, and grandmother to your children.
I wouldn’t want to risk it as she could say she can’t pay the rent this time and would go on how we have money.
If you think it’s a possibility that she’d attempt to emotionally manipulate you like this into living rent-free, then imagine how much worse it'll be if she lives right next door? How long before you hear the 'I raised you and this is how you reward me!' This is a recipe for disaster. Nip this in the bud ASAP before it poisons your marriage.
You could get a property manager from a real estate company to manage this for you. Stipulate that she must pay rent just like every other tenant, plus bond and adhere to all the rules just like an ordinary tenant. If she says she can't pay the rent or stops paying she gets evicted just like everyone else does.
If you think it is tough to just say no to renting to mother in law.
Just wait to see how tough it is when you try evict her on the street.
If she has super then tell her to get early access to foot the bill for the granny flat.
Thats what most reasonable people would do
Pay to build the granny flat and then live in it.
But I dont think OP would want that either.
Because then it becomes a contractual obligation
By the sppunds of it she will not want to part way with her dollars which gives the son in law a good reason to deny the idea of a granny flat.
Im sure the SIL hasnt got 100k sitting around to drop on something anyway.
No no no. It does not matter if God himself creates that granny flat.
Manipulative mother in law doesn't get to 'retire' at 60 and spend the next 30 years living in OP's back yard.
Would she be able to babysit or provide childcare to your children?
No way! Very unreliable.
Just say no.
Get yourself prepared for the next time MIL raises the idea (which will be delivered through her daughter as she continues her manipulative scheming). Reply by saying your parents, uncle, grandmother, half brother, whoever you like - was asking the same question “just the other day”. And of course you closed the subject down because you wouldn’t burden your wife with the intrusion.
Haha I like this idea!
Ultimate !!
Yes thats right
How many more parents/grand parents are you going to have living there or offend constantly for not even offering?
This has the potential to cause a complete family rift
This is ok, but of course there is a risk the wife calls your bluff and you get out manoeuvred.
"oh no of course it's not a burden for your uncle bob to move in, it's so important to me to always put family first, mum yay you can move in too"
Just stick with a plain old non-negotiable No.
From most of the comments I can see here is, the typical western culture of little to no respect of elders, even for their own parents. I suppose it stems from the view that when the kids are 18 they are on their own and they should move out or pay rent.
Being an elder does not instantly entitle you to respect
Doesn't mean one can't act like a decent human being towards another human being older or otherwise. Just saying.
Irrelevant to my response to the original comment. Respect is different.
Notwithstanding, reciprocity is important. Just saying
Being an elder does not instantly entitle you to respect
In some cultures it does, just not in the West anymore (it did all the way up until the 1960s or so).
One thing the West got right
@Ti-au: You confuse respect and politeness. Respect is earned. It’s a two way street. Politeness is about being a generally decent person. Politeness also has its limitations
@Vote for Pedro: Exactly respect is earned. I treat people how they treat me. I come from a non western family and this doesn’t make a difference.
I disagree, I think that culture is quite nuanced and sometimes very difficult to capture in these sort of broad generalisations. By and large, most families coexist happily together, western or not, so your statement that somehow it is "typical" of western people to have no respect for their parents is just completely untrue. Clearly something has happened for OP to feel so negatively towards his MIL, these things can happen in any family or in any culture.
This isn't the middle ages, where merely reaching your 50s conferred respect as a village elder. Old people are no different from younger ones: good ones, bad ones, some outstanding citizens and some parasites.
Respect for elders is not the subject here.
Im sure OP respects his elders.
Just doesnt want to get cooked up with them
60 is not even an 'elder', how can she expect to retire so young with no money saved, OP will be working till 75 to pay for her.
If she was 80 with no where else to go then it may be a different story.
@dlakers3peat
when the kids are 18 they are on their own and they should move out or pay rent.
Eighteen? Geez, get the little leeching buggers out earlier. Hell, if you can't send them down the mines anymore, what productive purpose do they serve?
First, Who owns the house? It means who makes the call?
Second, how much do you care your wife's feeling?
Third, Would the in-law contribute for the expense if she moves in?
You should form a clear boundary with everyone involved from the very first beginning. Otherwise, you are very likely to be in hell 24/7 in the near future until in-law meeting Jesus or your divorce.
Useless, you will end up only yourself are following the boundary.
Because you let others break the boundary.
How to control others not to break the boundary? Especially they are your wife and MIL.
@andylch: You question is the answer.
This might sounds bullshit. But when you mind believe that something is impossible, then yes, it is impossible to you.
Joint names.
No I don’t care about her feelings when it comes to MIL but I wouldn’t want to get a divorce.
I’m not sure when and how the topic will come up again but I want her to get the hint.
No I don’t care about her feelings when it comes to MIL but I wouldn’t want to get a divorce.
Then you need to make up your mind. If it comes down to it, would you rather take the divorce or put up with living with your MIL. It's simple really.
She would divorce for not letting MIL move in, wow…extreme, and they have kids?
Look, it is a hard question and you marriage is probably on the line. But you should make you opinion on this topic very firm (When I said firm, I means standing your ground，not screaming and yelling. You can make a very firm statement with a very soft tone).
If your wife and MIL are not reasonable, it is expected that they will be upset. But they will respect you more after this.
Also, consider every possible outcomes and think about your responses to that. Sometime, you might be thrown off balance by those bad surprises.\
Finally, Don't believe everything people said on Internet. I could be a dog, or your wife, or worse. You Fxing MIL
Hang up a dart board with a picture of MIL face on it?
Mate
Its never clear with woman.
And if this MIL claims she cant afford to live by herself then how is she expected to make a reasonable contribution?
The whole thing is a MIL SHAM
posting MIL problems on ozbargain
Your MIL thinks you're a pushover. Just use one of these excuses https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-tA3flsOtg until she gets frustrated and you have the moral high ground.
or JUST MAYBE try COMMUNICATING with your WIFE and figure out a common position to convey to your MIL
or JUST MAYBE try COMMUNICATING with your WIFE and figure out a common position to convey to your MIL
Why do the most obvious thing when you u have 0zB to talk to.
It's a joint decision. And something you need to discuss with your partner. I'm assuming(many people eventually get divorced and regret not having assets clearly seperate) you have a shared house? like in both names? then it isn't only your decision. I think that you need to think of the reasons you aren't interested in her living with you and maybe take a time to write them down and have a conversation with partner and let parter do the same for why they want to have her move in.
If you can't have an opinion on the mater and aren't willing to split up then start cooking grandma dinner and lunch etc. Include very very high cholesterol foods, lots of sodium, essentially give your grandmother a heart condition so she dies sooner.you aren't murdering her, just giving her tasty food!
If you do have her move in, set clear boundaries like you would with any other housemate.
Some pros to consider:
Many couples eventually reproduce. Children are difficult to raise with only 2 people, a third will be a big benefit.
Increased income from grandma paying rent.
Free maid(give her tasks, ask her to clean, go to the shops for groceries etc)
Free trivia member(many venues play pub trivia, older people know more things)
Great bowls partner.
This is something you should discuss with your parter for sure, but this is not a 'joint decision' in the normal sense.
This is one of those decisions where you (and her) have an absolute veto.
Have you told your wife how much you dislike her mum? My wife tells me how much she hates my parents every weekend.
It seems weird that you are married to someone you can't express your feelings to. How long have you been together?
If the mother in law has no money who is paying for the granny flat to get built? Will council even approve a granny flat to be built? That might be your get out of jail card.
Personally I think it's a great idea as long as your property is large enough to get some separation. Grandparents make great babysitters and improve security as they spend a lot more time at home as they get older and less mobile. Can easily give you a call if someone is acting suspicious.
Really?!?! Your OK with hearing that? Why does she hate them.
I’ve told her a few times why I hate her but she’s defended her mother every time and said that she never had said some things when she clearly did.
This mother’s poison but wife is like living in denial? Says she’s all good.
I’ve told her a few times why I hate her but she’s defended her mother every time and said that she never had said some things when she clearly did.
Honestly this sounds like a petty reason to hate someone. "I hate my MIL because she said some mean things". Anyway, things aren't good if you're claiming your wife is in denial. Sounds like you have bigger issues than just the MIL and this is just the tip of the iceberg for your marriage.
I can’t type here exactly what was said. It wasn’t being mean. She’s actually a very nasty selfish person.
There’s no issues with the wife until any topic comes up about the MIL.
She’s actually a very nasty selfish person.
So are most people - it's not really a concrete reason to hate someone. I'm not saying that you should go with whatever she demands, but at least not be so filled with hatred that it prevents you from coming to some sort of a reasonable outcome for everyone involved.
There’s no issues with the wife until any topic comes up about the MIL.
This is true for most difficult relationships - very few couples will argue about "everything", it's usually just one issue that they will argue about and that issue is unresolved and becomes a bigger and bigger part of their lives until it consumes all they discuss and then they will start perpetually arguing. My point is, this isn't about the MIL as much as it is about you and your wife not being able to understand the opposing point of view and approach the situation rationally.
Your wife needs to be more objective and judge your statements by their merit, you need to be more understanding and see that your wife loves her mum even though she's not perfect.
@p1 ama: Good point about most people being nasty and selfish, but it hits home a lot more when it's family, getting like you're not accepted or respected or thought to have an opinion worth listening to.
@Tomstars241: Think of it this way.
My mum is a lovely person, but there is no way on this earth I would impose on my wife and family by even suggesting to move mum into the back yard.
So that's a 'No' for a lovely person, for a very nasty selfish person the answer should be more than obvious.
When house hunting was close to buying a house with granny flat for mother-in-law but fell through… few years later I got sick and wife left me or used it as an excuse to leave … moral of story you never know how a partner will change so never put yourself in a position where your stuck with division of assets. You really need to talk to your wife and be honest how you feel as it will cause resentment between you two If you two disagree- maybe even get legal advice
Nope
She said the reason she has no savings was because she was a single mother?
How old is your wife? 19?
Is your wife her only child?
30s and no she has another daughter but she doesn’t work or own a house due to some bad decisions and recent health issues.
Discuss it with the missus first but personally, I would offer some sort of financial help rather than let her move-in. Proximity breeds contempt.
Health issues? Sounds like she needs someone to live with her and help her out…
I know plenty of single mothers (and single people for that matter) that are plenty well off.
The only reason people are not well off is because they have chosen to squander thier income and thier wealth.
If MIL is only 60 and "planning" to retire without sufficient assets/savings its NOT your problem so dont make it yours.
This is her choice. Let her deal with it.
Maybe she should work until retirement age, take responsibility for her actions and start making some serious savings towards her retirement
And the choice you make OP is NOT TO BUILD THE GRANNY FLAT!
I agree 100% with you
This is real easy.. once she has her pension she is free to leave the country and live abroad and still receive the pension its AUD 2030 per month, she can live like a king/queen in many developing countries, even developed, Australia is crazy expensive compared to most countries in the world, that money will go a real long way in many other countries.
Except they will cut her pension if she leaves the country for good.
Unlike in the US or UK where you get to keep your pension wherever you end up.
Use your address as her a dress.
They won't if you live in the country for 6 months. So 6 months at OP's place and 6 months living it up overseas. ..sounds like plan ;)
every 6 months come back.
yes!
get rid of her forever!
Build the granny flat, put in x2 beds.
Rent out the flat to international students to give your in-law a flatmate.
Problem solved, in-law isn't homeless and it will help pay for itself.
I like this idea. Do I hope the international student hasn’t been screened for the virus? Hope I don’t offend anyone, just a joke.
Do I hope the international student hasn’t been screened for the virus?
So you hope they have not been screened for the virus? Wouldn't it be better that they have been screened for the virus? I mean then you would actually know if they had the virus or not.
MIL will not go along with this Im afraid
Well isn't that a damn shame.
Cannot think of anything worse.
Losing a limb because of accident? Kidneys failing needing dialisys 2 times a week?
Meddling MIL is still worse?
To be honest yes it is. She’s very annoying and can cause lots of issues.
I think that you're delusional if you think that a meddling MIL is somehow worse than losing a limb or having failing kidneys. Why don't you head down to your hospital and ask people who actually have lost a limb whether they'd live with your MIL if they could have their limbs back?
You keep saying things like "she's annoying" or "she'll cause issues", but you haven't really explained what concrete problems you'll have with her. This all sounds terribly immature to be honest.
@p1 ama: Of course, there are worse things in life overall, but you don't know the situation and OP doesn't want to share every damn thing with you, so this isn't an excuse for you to say "oh, it can't be that bad".
Holly molly this has made it to highlighted comments on the front page!! If you don’t hear from me it means my wife has seen this.
I said NO and had a strained relationship for 2 years.
Believe me, it was worth it.
LOL
But of course
Looking from the mother in law's perspective, 65k salary is nothing these days. She would have spent every dollar in raising the kid and would have struggled to make ends meet. Its fair of her to ask. This would be her best option for the rest of her life.
But, obviously, you have to do what is right for you. Its fair of her to ask. Its totally fair of you to say NO as well.
As you are not a big fan of her, i would find her a suitable place to live and may be support just a little bit with expenses.
It sounds like you come from the real world.
But this is the internet/0zBargain - So take your reasonable answer elsewhere!
Dont forget MIL is only 60
Thats possibly another 30 years of her being very annoying and causing lots of issues.
And right in your face too!
Now who will die from stress first?
OP or the MIL
Basic and robust aren't antonyms here.
Wait times for HC suck, but being housed is a different story. You can get emergency accommodation and you can get rent assistance. The MIL having to drop her unrealistic expectations is just a fact of life (exactly the same as with anyone that has been on welfare). She won't be on the street and we all know it.