I don’t know if she’s serious but she has asked the question. She said she will retire soon and can’t afford to live alone. She said the reason she has no savings was because she was a single mother?
I hate this lady. What is my obligation? Or what can I say?
Is it better to have MIL in the granny house than in the house ;)
Or she's telling the truth and it's not a masterful bit of manipulation.
Trust your instincts, not strangers on the internet. People come into this with all kinds of different experiences and agendas.
Yeah, no.
OP needs to tell their wife:
We can't afford to get a second mortgage.
Actual build costs (for a non shed) are around $130,000 as there are far more costs than just the roof and walls.
$130,000 @5% over 25 years is an extra ~$770 a month. That's hoping there is no interest rate rise. If OP's MIL suddenly decides to leave, who is going to pay this?
And who is going to own the granny flat? If the loan is in OP's name, the flat is OP's, right? But MIL is paying the mortgage? Shouldn't be hers? But it is OP's land?
And Granny flats are around 50 square meters, so the MIL is going to live in OP's house in the day then get to leave after dinner into her flat.
This is a stupid plan when OP already has a strained relationship.
Free daycare.
Where will this granny flat come from if she doesn't have money?
Maybe expects us to build it.
Surprised you didn't get that/see it coming… you are meant to foot the bill for this. That is what she is testing the waters for.
What jonkvh said.
This all over.
Work out the cost so you can have a constructive conversation with your wife, show her the cost of building it, as yes the kits can be cheap but the foundation work, plumbing, cost to pay the council, painting etc. Also talk with the neighbours as they can complain especially if the GF will block views or the GF windows are looking over into their yard etc
Find out from your Local Council if such a Development would even be allowed.
If not, problem solv'd.
Can you put in a plan that is likely to fail. then tell her no?
Has your MIL heard the stories about how retirement homes are basically giant orgies. What better way to spend her later years
OP.
No.
God no.
Never.
Thanks I agree lol
Terrible idea, made even more terrible because of the emotional manipulation and the fact one partner does not want this.
Almost guaranteed to either ruin your marriage or the relationship between mother and daughter, hell maybe even both!
Can you honestly see yourself putting up with this, with zero resentment towards anyone or anything until the day the woman dies? How are arguments going to be handled? What about how often she visits? Will she respect boundaries? Can you put up with all this for what? 20…30…40 years? That's preposterous. You can't light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
If you need perspective, just run over to Reddit and read JUSTNOMIL for a while to see how badly you could destroy your life and marriage with this.
Oh and as for your obligations, you have none. There are plenty of safety net answers for pensioners/retirees. It's a shame she has no savings but a unit or a retirement place would eat that up anyway. Perhaps if you want to keep the peace offer to help find a solution that isn't on your property.
Thanks for the explanation, sounds horrible.
she should have super if she is working all that time.
avoid at all costs. dont build the granny flat, dont even let it be an option.
I’m guessing about 100k in super but seems like she likes holidays and dining out
Of course she does, she is banking on her SIL to be picking up the housing part of the tab soon enough.
Haha
Surely there is a polite way to tell them to go (profanity) themselves.
Seriously though - you need to work out what you want your life to look like. If you seriously don't want the MIL that close, give your partner the gift of knowing how you feel.
The worst case scenario is either:
You capitulate and you live with your MIL
Your partner decides she cares for her mother more than you and chooses her
You have the choice between these two worst case scenarios - if you could choose right now (and you had to make a choice) - which would it be?
Once you know that, work backwards to how you will deal with the situation.
she should have super if she is working all that time.
You do realize that mandatory super was only introduced in 1992 at a measly 3% of income.
Didn't people also have union funds that acted as a precursor to superannuation before 1992?
Some did. About 50% did not. Worse if they were casual. Please let us know who were the main people employed on casual wages back then? Women?
Ok.
No. I would not even have my own mother living on the same premises.
Will be signing the divorce papers in a few years to get away from MIL
dont do it, she's taken no responsibility for her life and seems shes a terrible person anyway. If your asking about obligations shes already manipulating you, will only get worse.
she's taken no responsibility for her life and seems shes a terrible person anyway
Yeah we're not very judgemental here are we? We don't even know the lady! All this gleaned from OP's brief post.
judgemental
Welcome to 0zBargain.
You hate your mother in law and too scared to say 'no' for fear of losing your sensitive wife/partner.
What exactly can ozb help you with?
Courage isn't going to appear from a few posts…. it appears there's no compromise for you that won't cost you one way or another.
Pick your poison.
A bargain on a bucket of courage.
0r some brass balls.
is your O broken
n0.
Public Housing - get her on the waiting list. There are special ones just for retired people and they are terrific.
My mum was a single mum on the pension and owns her home outright.
^This.
She needs to apply now/today. It might take 5-10 years to get a place, depending on how picky she is on the application form (which of course you and her daughter will help fill out to ensure all options are ticked).
She may be testing the waters, but so is your Mrs.
If you show even partial interest to this (which by the sounds of it you have little/none) then you are screwed… or more accurately your relationship is screwed.
And this is the angle that needs to be discussed with your 'sensitive wife'.
Sensitive or not, she needs to understand (if she doesn't already) that you married her- not her mum. Yes marriage is about compromise, but having another adult in the relationship isn't compromise, it's changing the relationship entirely.
Don't investigate granny flats with council. You have no intention of allowing this to happen, and you don't want to open the door to relocating to a house that will accommodate your MIL.
Speak to your wife honestly and openly. Don't let her hide behind 'I'm sensitive to this'. YOU are sensitive to this too! It's a sensitive issue for everyone. There is no shame in not wanting to live with your MIL. That was not part of the deal, and if your wife doesn't understand that, then that's a serious issue in that relationship.
Step 1) Discuss the impossibility of your MIL living with you.
Step 2) Public housing application.
Step 3) You MAY consider financial assistance in helping her pay for a very cheap rental somewhere (doesn't have to close or perfect… if she's prepared for granny flat she's prepared for a 1 bed unit somewhere). With a retirement public pension coupled with rent assistance (about $600 per fortnight), plus a small contribution from you to help ($50pw), there is no reason a she couldn't afford to live alone on her own.
SHE WILL NEED TO ADJUST HER EXPECTATIONS ON WHAT RETIREMENT MEANS. No regular holidays and going out for dinner.
YOU WILL NOT FUND HER RETIREMENT by allowing her to live beyond her means for free in a granny flat!!!!!!
Speaking from very personal experience.
What is my obligation?
Nothing.
Or what can I say?
"No."
Gotta laugh about it first as if it were the funniest joke you'd ever heard. Then deliver the "No."
Do you and your partner have kids? Do you pay for child care? Maybe you can pay your MIL so she can afford somewhere else.
Also, who would be paying for the granny flat? All comes down to money. Is a couple hundred dollars towards rent worth more than your sanity?
We have kids but she works full time earning about 65k a year and we ain’t paying her that!
Do you mean when she retires?
Yes, when she retires. The money you may spend on childcare or after school care could help her prop up her pension - afford to live on her own.
Good idea but she would only be able to afford far out with some chat from us. We live near the CBD.
Never EVER rent anything to your friends and family or let them live in your house (unless it is an emergency, which in your situation it is clearly not).
90% of these cases end up to your disadvantage because they eventually they stop paying rent or stop taking care of the home and all the responsibility drops on you.
You can't kick a friend/relative out, you will probably not have a rent contract that will allow you to legally kick them out, you will be stuck forever and you will lose out on your rent money big time. Also, do you really want 24/7 CCTV monitoring at your home that will also always nit-pick and judge you?
She said the reason she has no savings was because she was a single mother?
Can you guess what happens when she moves in?
"Sorry honey, I can't pay this month's rent/bills - I have no savings because I was a single mother!"
ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!
Say you are low on finances and you need rent money from the granny flat you are building or something.
Good advice thank you.
Agree to the MIL moving into a granny flat, then pay off someone in council to refuse your application to build a granny flat. This way you look like a great guy, but avoid the horrendous life of living with your MIL in your backyard.
Then she thinks she can just move in the spare room?!?!
Take care of the problem like a man!
Do you have children? If not, get busy with it.
If you already have 1 or more, then still get busy with it.
Better a child than a manipulative MIL.
Take care of the problem like a man!
get busy with it.
Forget about the looking good part.
Works well when goes according to plan
But if it does not then could back fire pretty badly
In this case MIL might suggest something else like moving into the house and OP won’t be able to say anything anymore.
It is a tough situation to be in.
Tell her you will end up a single father with no savings if you give her the truthful answer. So it's best if she doesn't ask.
What if she’s thinking the wife will then have all the money and empty rooms?
Why don't you like her?
She’s dirty and lazy. Doesn’t cook or clean…sorry if I should harsh.
Single mother? you sure? Single mothers are generally run off their feet as they usually end up with the kids and have to do everything alone.
I’m 100% sure. Lots of take away food and happy to live in mess.
@Tomstars241: Is your wife like that, seeming as her mum raised her? Maybe just divorce her and live exactly how you want without compromise or find a middle ground and help out.
She is a single mum for a reason. No woman desires to be abandoned and live alone if she is nice and lovable.
@andylch: Are you really that naive andylch - you have lived a sheltered life or still a kid edit I'm going to use your line next time I pass a women's shelter
Obviously no one wanted to be with her…
If your MiL (or your partner) persist, offer her a bedroom in your actual home. “She can become part of the family”. That might just kill the whole idea.
What if
she says
yes.
Sounds like you don't have kids. I gather that grandparents doing loads of unpaid childcare is quite the fashion these days. Granny in the backyard might seem a more attractive prospect then.
I have kids
Well have more then since you can't have a conversation with your wife.
He has kids… he just doesn't have a productive MIL/grandmother to the kids. Not all grandparents are grandparent material.
Some are like an extra child to look after, which OP sounds like he has.
Well, it all depends on what your and wife's ethnicity is. If its Asian, there is a unsaid but implied responsibility towards FIL and MIL (for both wife & Hus). Its mainly because relationships are valued much more there, and that thought is instilled very early days of childhood (thought its changing nowadays). I know this because if there is any issue for my in-laws, I need to fly and I am included in all decisions they take as well.
On anther comment, you said she is Aussie. Thats very strange.
Either way the relationship you and your partner is the most important. If its tainted due to the entry of MIL, you need to discuss with your partner and keep MIL out.
You could (a) downsize, (b) install a pool.
I’m happy with a pool!
If she has no money and doesn't not require special care then….
Housing commission
OR
Just keep working!
She definitely cannot barge into you life (she will make it hell)
Dont make her problem yours!
The get out move is NOT to build the granny flat till she settles somewhere else
Housing commission
Could you let us know the current wait times for HC?
Just keep working!
Yes, because as an employer I don't want to employ someone at 20 or 25, I want to employ them at 67 or 69….
Could you let us know the current wait times for HC?
Claim you are a Syrian\Afghan refugee and the wait time becomes less than a month.
Actually because they were more in need, according to the Gov. it was true.
@Ti-au: People who have no association to Australia are more important than Australia's own citizens?
I think it is completely unfair.
@Blue Cat: I agree.
I'm just stating the Governments own arguments.
1st priority should always be our own citizens.
2nd priority should be those who face real persecution.
How old is she? Tell her if she can't afford to live alone she can't afford to retire.
60
60! Tell her that you won't be able to access your super until 69 so she shouldn't plan on retiring on your dime for at least another decade. Come up with another excuse in 10 years.
I say this as someone who loves my MIL and wouldn't mind her living next door.
Oh man 60!? And wants to 'retire' and live at your place for free? You will be supporting her for another 30 years.
Literally man, after your own kids have grown up and moved out - she will still be there.
Tell her if she can't afford to live alone she can't afford to retire.
Well she does not have to live alone - she can move in with Op! Hey Problem solved! :/
Correctamondo
No offense, but your wife is extremely selfish to allow this situation to occur, and then be too sensitive to talk about it.
Firmly tell your wife you don't want this. Give your wife the chance to talk to her mum and manage her expectations to keep everyone on good terms. If your wife doesn't oblige, tell your MIL directly.
If your wife doesn't support you in this, be prepared to walk out of the relationship until she does.
If you don't assert yourself now, you won't be respected and more situations like this will come up.
If you get manipulated now, you'll resent your wife and will eventually take revenge, even if it's just not being as nice to her as you could be. Who wants that?
She said it was just a joke between them from a young age.
Sounds like she was sowing the seed and planning her retirement way back before you were even on the scene.
What a selfish nasty lady!
what joke?
You say "haha, good joke, we could move my mother in too! … but just to be clear, no this is not going to happen. Not now, not ever."
No need to cause anxiety
Just DONT BUILD the granny flat
Problem solved
Too easy
If your wife insists, I suggest you move into the granny flat, or set it up as a man cave, and let your mother in law live as close as possible to your wife.
The funny thing is she didn’t want her daughter living with her!
Man, blood is thicker than water. Don't become a common enemy of women.
Explain that the feeling is mutual. Then duck and Cover
So that makes 2 of you.
It works BOTH ways then
Don't build the granny flat. Problem solved. You already know it was only ever planned to house the MIL anyway.
Tell your entitled wife that your house is not a hostel for her mother nor a lifeboat to rescue her from her poor life choices. Tell the MIL that Australia has a robust welfare system and options for the homeless and elderly, and that you're sure her daughter will be happy to cart her to the dozen or more Department of Human Services and Department of Aged Care appointments that will be required (I've done this myself, because I don't have the option of parasitism off the wages and assets of some man. Believe me, if I could suck my way out of financial difficulties I'd be at Bunnings buying sturdy knee pads right now).
Thank you for letting me know.
@cfuse "if I could suck my way out of financial difficulties I'd be at Bunnings buying sturdy knee pads right now" This encompasses why I thoroughly enjoy being a part of the Ozbargain community. You Sir, said it better than I ever could!
Spat my coffee out at this
robust welfare system
A basic welfare system
and options for the homeless and elderly
What are the wait times for HC ?
American and Chinese olds would kill for our safety nets.
Basic and robust aren't antonyms here.
Wait times for HC suck, but being housed is a different story. You can get emergency accommodation and you can get rent assistance. The MIL having to drop her unrealistic expectations is just a fact of life (exactly the same as with anyone that has been on welfare). She won't be on the street and we all know it.
'Basic'… probably ranked in the top 10 out of 160+ countries….
Don't tell anyone you're checking and if they say yes ask what you can do to change that to a no