Title says it all, what's other protein options? Asking for a friend :)
Being Vegan and Allergic to Legumes and Nuts, Alternative Sources of Protein
Lfrugalbat on 23/11/2019 - 15:30
Comments
If I have the chance to upvote you many time I will do it :)
At first I thought troll post…
Nah, trolls eat meat.
Not being vegan
Freedom of choice is a lovely thing.
Op’s friend’s body isn’t giving them a choice. Why fight something that is unnatural?
@callum9999: Eating meat is natural! Not eating an easy food source to supplement your body with what it needs because one wants to deny how they are made is unnatural.
Animals die all the time as part of the NATURAL ecosystem. Most from other predators that are adapted or rely on their meat to exist.
The vegan probably has pets…which is entirely unethical given they are enabling an enslaved and captive animal in their own meat consumption.
Give up the moralist high ground. There is nothing unethical about eating meat product given so much 'vegan' friendly product, like soy, wipes out millions of creatures in its manufacture
@wchau: Interesting point. That's actually the first reasonable argument I've heard.
Cept raw fish is ok. We eat mussels and many seafood types.
The issue with meat is it needs to be consumed quickly and given how detached we are to animal slaughtering now this would really be the only issue, health wise, with eating raw meat that isn't super fresh…like we would have once.
Not to mention cooking meat…like vegetables, increases the nutrients we can extract from them and offers generally a more palatable option.
Even animals don't eat the entirety of other animals they kill.
I'd also argue that technology - fire - has changed humans to be less capable of eating meat…as well as the type of meat that is generally available now.
Before fires homosapians would have eaten animals raw and those animals would have had less bacteria and our gutts been more efficient at dealing with said bacteria.
Like anything…a balanced diet that allows you to maximise the very best things from all areas is best…not where you rule out something entirely for a moralistic reason.
B12 and iron are big issues for non meat eaters. To the point where many take supplements to make up for this in their own diets. I'd argue any dietary lifestyle/choice that you make where you need to supplement through human manufacturers and refined means is not a food approach that is smart.
Eating vegan is as destructive to the environment as vegans say carnivores are. This can be significantly minimised in the quality and location the food is grown and processes in its creation.
Fish are an entirely carbon friendly meat option if we didn't eat so much of it and decimate the oceans. We've been doing it for millennia. I was flying the other day and looked down to a view of fields as fas as the eye could see of food crops. You can be sure there are a huge amount of creatures dying in those vast pieces of land through pesticides to provide our 'vegetable, non meat' food requirements.
If your body is literally fighting you on so many avenues and pointing you to a very easy solution to stay alive…you don't keep fighting your body on it.
Refined, pesticide, hormone, GMO, foods are dangerous. The most important thing is organic and well treated. Be that vegetables or animals.
@Lv80: TLDR your comments above - all that was commented was about "Eating meat is Natural" and I brought up a real example of what happens when it comes to eating meat… some people just neg automatically without even thinking. No surprise here.
I brought up a real example of what happens when it comes to eating meat
Except it isn't real. Raw meats are actually eaten in a variety of cultures, offal included. In most countries people avoid it because we're aware of salmonella and the difficulty of control from butchering an animal all the way through to the meat landing on our plate. Variations of sashimi, steak tartare, carapaccio etc. can be found in cultures all across the world.
The only reason raw meat dishes aren't more familiar is that it simply hasn't been economical before fridges existed. You end up with a few hundred kilos of meat when you slaughter a cow, you aren't going to be eating all of that raw before the meat spoils in 'natural' situations.
@GUYANDSON: Pointless in arguing, on my ending note - if you can eat all your meats raw everyday ( Fridges aside ) then I will side with you, till then I wouldn't call humans as natural meat eaters, leave it to the real meat eaters.. lions, tigers, bears who sink their teeths in live flesh.. we mimic scavengers like vultures and wait till their prey is dead and the eat it. ( or rather cook it and then eat it because its too foul/chewy to eat raw . )
@wchau: Good to see some goalposts moved.
Again, we can eat raw meat perfectly fine. There is nothing in our body that rejects the digestion of it. In it's optimal state it doesn't poison us or anything like that, which you originally implied. People do not violently die or their brains explode because of eating raw meat. You might get an upset stomach if your gut flora is not adjusted to it but assuming the meat is not contaminated, you will be demonstrably fine. Prime example are the inuits whose diets traditionally consisted largely of raw meats, only having access fruits/herbs during the short summer months.
Using natural as your marker is very disingenuous as well. If you want to take look at natural, our closest cousins the chimps and the bonobos are known to hunt the lower order primates. With some populations being known as particularly vicious in their hunting and lust for meat. Chimps and bonobos don't cook their food. If you want to look at something else, mineral licks are a thing precisely because animals do not receive their complete nutritional requirements through their natural diets. Some even requiring the supplementation because of the toxins found in their regular diets.
'Natural' completely changes according to what is available, if physiology or behaviour cannot adjust, the animal loses the game of evolution. The idea that we can't or don't naturally eat meat completely flies in the face of how we got to where we are today as a species, humans are so successful precisely because we can capitalise on what is available. Vegetables, fruits, nuts and yes meat included.
If you want to talk about the ethics of eating meat, sure. If you want to talk about how as a species we're circumventing physiology and eating too much meat, sure, I'd agree with you on that. But saying that eating meat is unnatural for humans is ridiculous.
@wchau: your initial argument is rubbish
"Eating meat is natural" for some animals. This is true.. but with humans the problem is this… if someone hands a meat eater a raw chicken to eat, it certainly doesn't go down well.. ( try it if you think I tell a lie haha )
If humans were real meat eaters we wouldn't have a problem with eating the whole chicken raw, guts, intestines and all.. .and yet we are disgusted when our chicken is not cooked properly.Replace the word meat above with vegetables/plants.
Do you go down on your hands and knees and bite vegetables out of the ground with your teeth, then crunch and swallow it raw, unwashed with all the dirt?
If not then your argument is invalid. Compare like for like.some people just neg automatically without even thinking. No surprise here.
I'm really amazed that you didn't realise you were being negged hard because your argument is far too simplistic, and wrong.
@payton: I don't know what you going on about - Are you saying all the below is false ? Take a poll
Eating meat is natural for some animals.
Eat a raw chicken - Tell me that this is perfectly fine for you or anyone else here and that you won't likely have an upset stomach afterwards.
People are disgusted when they bite into a chicken and is raw with blood dripping ( and probably stop eating it )Second, this has nothing to do with washing dirt off. Go ahead and wash your raw chicken then.
Negged hard doesn't mean anything… its just the representing the ~ratio~ of meat eaters vs plant based people here.
e.g ( go to a vegan page and with the same comments you'll probably find the reverse and you will be negged hard too.. )
Sorry to "un-amaze" you
@Lv80: I have never said eating meat isn't natural, what on earth are you banging on about? I would love to hear a rational explanation as to how a factory meat farm that systematically slaughters then heavily processes the meat is more natural than eating rice though. Not that it's remotely relevant to anything.
Animals die - correct. What on EARTH is your point? If it's "lions kill prey so it's fine for us to do it too" then why aren't we allowed to mimic their other behaviour? Why can't I force a woman to become my partner then kill all her children to benefit my own?
Likewise, all parents should be locked up for keeping their children hostage and not letting them wander off whenever they want to.
I have no need to drop the moral high ground and join you in your cess pit, thank you very much. Every single environmental organisation on the planet has detailed why it is unethical to eat meat so if you're too dense to grasp that very simple fact there's not much I can really say to you…
@Lv80: Not to mention every vegan I've ever heard was also a staunch supporter of 'a woman's right to choose' (abortion). So: a) Killing animals for food is 'unnatural' and 'inhumane'… but: b) murdering a baby (which they want to do long AFTER birth now too!) - uh… somehow is!?
So if he wants to talk 'hypocrite'…
@Lv80: Eating meat could be normal, but it's a disgusting food - starting from how it's derived and how it appears/ smells, to cooking it and everything around it.
@virhlpool: disgusting to you, delicious to us… I know many more kids who would say the same (disgusting) about vegetables and vegetable products. LOL
@jatyap: You gotta be kidding if you say veggies look and smell more disgusting than raw or cooked meat. Each to their own though.
@virhlpool: No I am not kidding. In fact, a lot of parents find it a big victory when they finally get their kids to eat veggies.
Each person has different tastes, and what smells/tastes disgusting to you, may not, to me.
I grew up eating Durian, and am a meat-eater. Many people find both disgusting, and that's fine, as I am not too keen on feeding them, anyway.What most people find off-putting about veganism is not vegans' choice of food. It is their proclivity to tell other people that it is wrong to eat meat, and pretend that they are more capable of making our dietary choices than we ourselves are.
Now as to the OP's question. It really comes down to a matter of choice. Are his (or his friend's) vegan beliefs more important to him than his health and convenience? If so, then kudos and keep going for alternatives. Otherwise, just do the most practical thing and start eating meat! It doesn't take much to meet dietary requirements. 30g (equivalent of a small matchbox) is more than enough.
Looking at the Japanese and the Scandinavians (some of the longest-lived demographics), it seems that a balanced diet really is the way to go.
@jatyap: Fair enough. Veganism and vegetarianism are too very different diets though and most people don't realise that. With connections to the culture (Indian to be specific) which is mostly vegetarian-centric, I can't adjust to veganism as dairy has always been big part of my diet. Veganism is almost unheard of in India, whilst vegetarianism is massive (probably covers the majority of population) and most people who haven't been to India don't realise it either. More importantly, vegetarian food is people's cultural choice there (though its origin may have been cultural/ religious) and it's nothing to do with ethical or health preferences. I grew up in a culture where meat or eating meat is looked down upon and apparently using leather or drinking milk is not. Fruits/ veggie section of supermarket always smelled and looked better to me compared to meat/ seafood section, again, for the very nature of where meat comes from and how it looks/ smells. I agree that it has a lot to do with upbringing. Nothing is right or wrong there.
What's natural or unnatural isn't a terribly useful arbiter for determining human nutrition. Time for that red herring to be put to bed.
Agriculture, including domestication and breeding of both animals and plants aren't really 'natural' practices - but no-one would suggest denying us that.
Most of the meat that people eat are from animals that have been artificially inseminated, selectively bred, industrially raised and harvested. This isn't terribly natural. Don't see people who advocate for a natural meet eating diet protesting that.
The only real natural food sources would be foraging nuts, fruits, seeds, plants and scrounging the odd smaller, and slower moving, animal.
Humans have always been adaptable and flexible in their food sources. That's why we are so dominant. What's important in a diet is what's healthy for the individual, sustainable for the environment, and increasingly for some, the welfare of the animals being eaten, or not eaten.
As for OP or OP's friend, it is a challenge maintaining a varied balanced vegan diet with these restrictions - but I don't think it's impossible.
@[Deactivated]: Natural in terms of as you say, not being pumped with hormones etc. Similarly you speak of all the bad stuff we do to animals…and don't accept that the bulk of most vegetables are GMO and coated with pesticides…a product that's heritage comes from chemical weapons!
A cow bred 'naturally' eating healthy food it would normally eat, and left to be would be a healthier option than industrial GMO vegetables.
Animals are eaten in the world daily. Humans aren't going to change what happens in the global food chain by deciding to go vegetarian. Would you tell an aboriginal that they can no longer eat kangaroo or snake or even grubs? An eskimo they can't eat seal? If we don't have a right to climb a rock…because of a cultural belief…do you think we have any right to tell them not to eat food in the middle of Australia that they survive on?
This whole vegan thing as entirely a western privilege in virtue signalling that we consider ourselves morally better because we have choices that others don't….because for the most part we have gotten to this point BECAUSE we have killed and lived on animals and wiped out entire ecosystems to create cities and farming styles to support us.
It's funny also that so many vegans own cats…given that this industry kills just in australia over 200,000 a year….and with a pet cat population of close to 4 million, which survive mostly on animal meat….are entirely hypocritical in enabling significant animal death simply for entertainment and companion value….and not as a food source…something far more noble (surviving) than the idea of a 'pet'.
What is natural is of course a significant arbiter of what is probably good practice. Think about all the things that are wrong in this world….and most of them are not natural. Cars, carbon emissions, digital tech and all the problems that come with that. How we treat and grow animals (before we kill them…and even then sometimes how we kill them) what we spray our veg with and how we create and grow it.
If you think about the movements that are starting to gain tractions, they are all ultimately about reducing the human input into things. Removing all the processes from what happens naturally.
I also agree it isn't impossible to have an entirely vegan diet…but that means eating organically too. Not just 'vegan'. Essentially, looking at every aspect of the process and making sure it hasn't harmed another animal. And that is actually impossible. And anyone that then suggests that their life is more important than an animal…on any level for any amount of time…is hypocritical in calling themselves a vegan…because all a non vegan is doing is putting their own interests above animals more often.
But if it helps people sleep better and feel more important to label themselves as being vegan and telling people that then great. I sleep well knowing they are all just as guilty as I am.
Should people do more to reduce their waste and footprint? Yes. But this doesn't mean that they can't eat or use animals products.
It just means being more conscious and considerate.
@Lv80: I'm not entirely sure I follow the thread of your comment.
I was pointing out that using the notion of 'natural' as a arbiter of what is acceptable or unacceptable eating practices is sloppy reasoning. We've all gone so beyond natural/unnatural that it is a pointless distinction. And for good reason. I personally don't want to live in a cave.
I have my own dietary practice, but I'm not really interested in telling people what to eat.
But I do think it's occasionally worth sharing information about the suffering involved in certain types of industrial farming and killing practices however. I think all reasonable people would agree to reducing suffering. Who on earth is a suffering maximalist?
As for your position on vegetables and GMO, not clear why you think it's unsafe. Humans have been interfering with plant DNA for millenia - nothing natural about that. GMO is an extension of this practice. Pesticides are a bit shite but overuse are an input used by agribusinesses privileging profits from high yield monoculture, over more sustainable and less damaging farming practies.
@[Deactivated]: @Lv80: Oh I see, I was originally reply to @whooah1979's comment above:
"Op’s friend’s body isn’t giving them a choice. Why fight something that is unnatural?"
but I made a formatting error so it looked like I was replying to you. That may have caused some confusion.
@[Deactivated]: Sorry..I guess when I say GMO i mean more pesticides and other destructive industrialised processes. GMO does play a part in it though where the type of plants we are growing are becoming further and further from what they should be..all in the aide of quick and cheap.
No different to animals.
Ethics in all food development and harvesting should be enforced. Be that a plant or animal
We won't be too far of suggesting that messing with human genes scientifically isn't much different to what the body and people in mating and choosing do naturally..where in fact…it is vastly different….as is GMO. One onl needs to look at the amount of allergies to 'natural' produce to realise we are doing something very very wrong in this space.
It would be lovely to buy and eat meat without vegan activists breaking our balls
I have never had anyone ‘break my balls’ buying meat. Are you sure you’re not just projecting a perception?
@Vote for Pedro: Why the neg?
It happens here in Perth. Not every week, but we always have a few instances every few months or so.https://thewest.com.au/news/perth/vegan-activists-take-prote…
I don't know where you live, but like I said, if you haven't come into contact with them, lucky you!
@jatyap: Watched the video and if that’s the extent of the so called ‘breaking my balls’ then um… honestly, I don’t want to be rude but some people are going to have to harden the f*** up.
That video showed a harmless and quite funny short protest in the meat section.
@Vote for Pedro: The supermarket protests personally don't bother me, mate (I used to work as a butcher). I'm going to get my last one way or the other.
But the trespassing and attacks on farmers are going a bit far. And again like I said, everybody should be free to eat what they choose to. You don't get up in someone elses face calling them murderers for their choices (well you can call me that, but don't get mad if I don't stop eating my steak to pay attention to you).
@jatyap: Sorry, thought this component of the conversation was about people breaking your balls for eating meat. I reckon some petals are blowing it out of proportion for the sake of vegan bashing.
The reality is, apart from a humorous protest at a coles and some farm protests, no one is breaking our balls for eating meat.
@Vote for Pedro: I guess it depends on where you draw the threshold.
One MP here made a blanket statement that "meat-eating men" were respoednsible for a lot of our climate worries, over "vegan women" and actually made a suggestion that the government play a role in encouraging people to eat less meat.If Izzy Folau's not even allowed to make a blanket statement regarding hell, why the hell should we allow that?
I agree with you on one thing though. A lot of softies need to toughen up
@jatyap: So what? Isn’t everyone entitled to their world view? That politician is entitled to that view. If we don’t like that view, we can vote them out.
Re: izzy. Who’s stopping him? He’s allowed to say whatever he wants. But there are consequences. He just doesn’t believe his views enough to stop taking a salary from heathens.
If I have values that differ from my employer then I need to man up (so to speak) and choose to work for an employer that better aligns with my values rather than continue to accept a pay packet from people that contradict my world view. For example, I’d never work for a company that is against marriage equality or actively denies climate change because that would not align with my values.
@Vote for Pedro: I beg to disagree with that. I don't think what someone does with his personal time is relevant to their job at all.
While I don't agree with his views on LGBTQ people, he was paid to play rugby and to support the sport of rugby. I don't think his religious values should have come into question at all.
But while we are on this path, I do hope that that particular MP gets voted out, as approximately half of her constituent are male "meat-eaters". Climate change deniers are bad enough, scaremongers are even worse.
@jatyap: I think that’s a cop out. Rugby is pro inclusiveness. He is anti LGBTQI equality but happy to take $$$ from Rugby. So clearly doesn’t really believe in what he preaches. He should put his money where his mouth is. But he wants to have it both ways.
@Vote for Pedro: Sigh… I miss the days when sport was just sport, free from being agents of political/sociological views and such.
TBH, if he was against LGBTI players playing Rugby, or playing on the same field as he was, that would be blatant discrimination. Posting his personal views on a medium off the pitch is pretty much what all of us do outside of our jobs.
@jatyap: You’re missing what I’m saying. Take rugby out of it. Pretend it’s ACME corporation.
Izzy is passionate about his beliefs (and thats super fair enough). But, he’s not passionate enough to no longer accept a pay packet from a company with (significantly) opposing beliefs. Bit hypocritical.
@Vote for Pedro: So is 90% of the population, mate.
I'm pretty sure there are a lot of mining company workers that have their own opinions on the environment.
Same with financial services employees and the economy; child care and children.Heck, a lot of open software advocates (and they express these views publicly) who have gone on to work for Microsoft and Oracle (and this was before Microsoft even associated itself with open software initiatives).
So why single HIM out? That's my point. As long as you're doing the job well, during the time you're supposed to be doing it, the company should have NO say in how you elect to make use of your own time.
@jatyap: I don’t single him out. You’re being mischievous in trying to apply a different meaning to what I’m saying. I make the point about everyone.
If you want to preach your views to other people, put your money where your mouth is, otherwise it’s incredibly hypocritical.
@Vote for Pedro: He's probably the best example of putting his money where his mouth is.
How many people would just kowtow and go with the party line?But he is fighting, saying it's not right.
I (and a few others, probably) agree. Not with the anti-LGBT stuff, but with the argument that it does not (should not) affect his employment in any way.
@Vote for Pedro: Well, that's one point we disagree upon.
We did agree on one point… that some people need to toughen up…
Anyway, good discussion and enjoy the rest of the day!
insects….?
insects are creatures…which go against being a vegan.
Resuming an omnivore diet.
the fake omnivore diet where you cook all your meat?
Spinach, broccoli, tofu. You can also get pea or other plant based protein powders.
Is your friend allergic or just intolerant?
Tofu is made from soy bean.
Soy bean is a legume.
Pea is also a legume.^^ soy also kills many millions of animals in its industrialised harvesting and spraying.
It ain't any more 'ethical' than killing 1 cow that would sustain your protein requirements much longer than the equiv in soy.
If it’s imported soybean it’s most likely GMO.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Anyway, OP is allergic to legumes.
How do you think cow feed is made…?
Is male human milk still vegan since it doesn't come from animals?
Man is certainly an animal.
Some vegans allow human milk because the human can consent to being milked. Other vegans choose no animal products.I DO NOT CONSENT TO BEING MILKED
@[Deactivated]: That’s how the cow might feel!
Or maybe they are ok with it - they do wander up to the milking shed each morning.@mskeggs: They wander up to the milking shed because they've been forcibly impregnated, had the newborn calf taken away and selectively bred to produce unnecessarily large quantities of milk that would cause them pain if they don't get milked…
I'm certainly not going to tell anyone not to drink it, but don't pretend the cows want you to do it!
Soybeans are legumes.
Yes it has a high level of plant hormone that is similar to eostrogen.
One of the reasons it isn’t a good idea to give babies too much soy milk.
Actually it is a good rule to go for variety and avoid too much of anything.
Your probably allergic to all the genetic modification in the plant beef isn't GMO give that a go see if you feel better.
Since there are no nuts grown in Australia that are GMO, your point is easily disproven.
http://www.ogtr.gov.au/internet/ogtr/publishing.nsf/Content/9AA09BB4515EBAA2CA257D6B00155C53/$File/11%20-%20Genetically%20modified%20(GM)%20crops%20in%20Australia.pdf
Lol
It is entirely possible but may be inconvenient depending on your other preferences. Being vegan is not about putting your health at stake; if you are genuine pm me and i can forward you to sources which will know much better than a random forum like this.
This is very good advice.
.. a random forum like this.
Uh-hum.. This ain't no random forum! We love vegans here - just don't remind us you're vegan in every post.
Tofu, tempeh, and edamame, Spirulina, Quinoa, Mycoprotein, chia seeds, hemp seeds, beans and rice, potatoes, broccoli, kale, mushrooms, Seitan. Spelt, teff, oats, asparagus, artichoke, sweet potatoes and Brussel sprouts. Also peas Plus many more.
Half the things you listed are legumes.
Still a good list though. As someone who lives and dives on a yacht and is also trying to up my protein to do said diving and yachting more efficiently I'm embarrassed to say I didn't even think about seaweeds I can easily harvest and process myself. Glad I read the original comment. Much cheaper and easier than other protein sources.
Not half only tofu, tempeh edamame, peas and beans. The rest of
List is okay. Can also add avocado, pumpkin seeds and tahini to the list.I was rounding up…
Only one would be required for a possible severe reaction.avocado is very poor in protein, you're better eating rice instead
What a princess. Try ice cubes.
I don’t understand what you mean. Care to elaborate
No animal died while making the cubes.
How do you know? XD
@whooah1979: Need electricity to make ice cubes. Need coal to make electricity. Need to clear land to mine coal. Animals killed during land clearing.
Need to clear land to mine coal. Animals killed during land clearing.
Land clearing for farming kills the same animals. Killing animals for either meat or farming is unavoidable.
@whooah1979: yup…am human…going to kill things. It's inevitable. Only way to be 'vegan' is to not be born.
@whooah1979: Agree, just presenting an argument that a simple thing like making ice has many preceding actions.
A juicy rump disguised as tofu.