Neighbour's children trespassing and climbing onto our roof

Luedamasaki on 04/10/2019 - 14:07

Part of this post is to vent and debrief, but also to gather ideas in how I should approach this situation.

We own a low set property. Our neighbours situated behind us have pretty free access to out property as there is no dividing fence. Their 3 kids (roughly 2, 4, 6 year olds?) are frequently entering our property without permission. We have to keep kindly asking them to leave on a regular basis. The eldest usually makes a few snide comments and leaves, but is soon back in our yard. No damage yet, but they play with our kids equipment and I often have power tools around the area that I sometimes forget to put away. One of the kids is ALWAYS stark naked so it's an unpleasant sight. We've spoken to the parents who seem OK and have apologised, but there is no visible change in these kids behaviours. They are still outside largely unsupervised.

The biggest concern is that while we were out, our other neighbour found the older kids running around on our roof and pulling on the antennae cords. When he asked if they're supposed to be up there the 6 year old apparently said "yes we are". Again no damage done, but I'm very concerned for the safety of these kids. I spoke to the father about the roof incident and he apologized, but then proceeded to talk about his long working hours and how his was had been sick which the kids "took advantage of". A week later, they were out in the back largely unsupervised again.

Now the obvious response is to build a fence. The neighbours promised this >6 months ago and offered to pay for it all, but nothing has been done. I've been telling him that we should pay for half. I've been trying to send him messages about this since, but have been getting very empty replies such as "Hello, thank you for the information" and nothing else. I'm thinking of trying to issue a 'notice to fence' and just get on with getting the fence built. Anything can be done about the trespassing in the meantime? Especially with the risk to their kids, the indecent exposure (naked kid).

Home & Garden

Comments

  • k-rokfm on 04/10/2019 - 14:12
    +36

    get a quote for a fence and ask them for half. tell them you will organise it.

    If you cant get half the money off them do you think they would ever get around to putting one up?

    • uedamasaki on 04/10/2019 - 14:27
      +2

      that's what I'm thinking of doing as plan B. I wanted to give him some time and space since he offered to pay for it all, but 6 months is ridiculous
      get a quote, issue a notice to fence, wait a month, then go QCAT if they don't respond.

      • Hithere on 04/10/2019 - 15:01
        +12

        I doubt if a fence will stop them.

        Without the feral's parents actually disciplining them, and it sounds like they aren't too interested, they'll either climb the fence or they'll rip off a few palings off to get through.

        A neighbouring family had the same issue a while back with feral kids climbing onto their roof, ripping off roof tiles, and throwing rubbish into the roof space.

        I believe they eventually got DOHS involved - which may be your only option.

        • uedamasaki on 04/10/2019 - 16:19

          yikes, that sounds like a nightmare. I was hoping th 6 year old can't jump over a 1.8m tall colourbond fence. May hold them back for a few years at least. But good point because they're already climbing up their own cyclone fence.

          • try2bhelpful on 04/10/2019 - 19:25
            +5

            @uedamasaki: Make sure the fence is smooth on their side so that the kids have nothing to climb up on. You might also want to consider putting something like the cat roller things on the top to prevent them getting over. You should be concerned about them being there because you will, probably, be liable if they fall off the roof. However, your insurance should have public liability. I wonder why no fence was built when the houses were built? I would get the fence done as a priority. However, this will probably just result in them throwing rubbish over the fence but that is better than having the kids there. Just imagine what this lot will be like once they get to teenagers.

              • uedamasaki on 05/10/2019 - 20:39
                +7

                @derrida derider: I admit 'indecent exposure' is probably a poor choice of words. I guess Im just tired of looking out my window and seeing a naked child running around my property. I think it just adds to the 'feralness' of the situation.

            • [Deactivated] on 06/10/2019 - 06:35

              @try2bhelpful: Not sure OP would be liable when he has no duty to these children. Parents still have the duty of care.

          • Mechz on 05/10/2019 - 00:32
            +6

            @uedamasaki: Spend a bit extra on a 2.4m high fence.

        • stumo on 04/10/2019 - 18:43
          +47

          Electric fences are pretty cheap. And would prevent the climbing problem.

          • Hithere on 04/10/2019 - 19:22
            +43

            @stumo: That's a shocking suggestion.

        • downbythecreek on 08/10/2019 - 10:11

          "Unless it is agreed otherwise" like in the OPs case where he stated the neighbour OFFERED to pay for it all, but never actually did.

          • [Deactivated] on 10/10/2019 - 06:51

            @downbythecreek: According to the op this is being going on for more than 6 months - when it come to fencing both he and the neighbour are equally responsible and the cost should be shared - OP clearly knows his legal obligation and what he should be doing - so what are they waiting for? He is trying to find a way to get the neighbor to pay for the fence in its entirety and as a result letting this whole thing escalate unnecessarily particularly going into the summer months

            • uedamasaki on 10/10/2019 - 08:32

              @[Deactivated]: I've offered to pay half several times in the interest of speeding up the process, but wasn't getting much feedback from the neighbor. I've reached the point that I'm going to pay for it all and get the neighbor to pay be back when he's ready.

              • forkus on 10/10/2019 - 11:48
                +4

                @uedamasaki: Long con from the neighbour to get you to pay for the whole fence.
                Once you pay for it, you will never see any repayment…

                • uedamasaki on 10/10/2019 - 11:53
                  +1

                  @forkus: That's always at the back of my mind. If he didn't pay we'd be annoyed, but we'd still survive and we'd still be better off than without the fence. So we've come to terms with that possibility.

                  I figured that if we do it formally through a notice to fence and a signed agreement, atleast I have a legal avenue of collecting that debt. Would be annoying to have to go through QCAT to get an order for them to pay though.

                  • ankor on 10/10/2019 - 12:38

                    @uedamasaki: He's known about this for such a long time and he hasn't saved the acorns so to speak. I'm guessing that you're off to qcat very very soon.

                    • uedamasaki on 10/10/2019 - 12:41

                      @ankor: gotta wait a month before going for medition and then QCAT. If he signs off on the notice, then we can built straight away. I'd only need to go to QCAT if he won't pay the owed 50%

                • [Deactivated] on 12/10/2019 - 02:52

                  @forkus: Fencing Issues are a very common theme and you should not be afraid to take your neigbour to QCAT which is not expensive or time consuming as you think -

                  the law is on your side so just use it to your advantage

                  summon them to QCAT when you know they are going on holiday or if they are a FIFO on a swing - this will show a certain level of legal aggression

                  As long as you have followed correct procedure particularly if the fence is installed by a licensed contractor and therefore sufficient - QCAT will rule in your favour (its incredibly black and white to them)- you can request interest - call in the debt collectors who will hassle the C**P out of him, take their caravan, car, furniture , smash their credit rating - sell the debt or put a caveat on their house. - your neighbour probably knows all of this and you probably do - you just have to show him that you mean business and then he might actually begin to respect you

                  • uedamasaki on 12/10/2019 - 08:03

                    @[Deactivated]: How does the process of debt collectors work? I heard that they charge quite a lot

      • Viospeed on 10/10/2019 - 15:05

        Sounds to me like they are just saying anything to get rid of you each time and hoping you just give up.

    • Bryanalves on 09/10/2019 - 10:37

      Anything can be done about the trespassing in the meantime? Especially with the risk to their kids, the indecent exposure (naked kid).

      Trespassing - leave more power tools on ground then call police and explain and say you often have power tools around and kid are at risk. Police would do something if thats the case

      Risk to kids - as above, short term risk for long term gain. Also more importantly your antenna nd kids toys isnt going to get damaged

      Indecent exposure - film then take it to police.

      • whooah1979 on 09/10/2019 - 13:53

        Indecent exposure - film then take it to police.

        OP’s backyard isn’t a public place.

        • Bryanalves on 09/10/2019 - 16:09

          So the police wont do anything when you show them nude kids?

          • whooah1979 on 09/10/2019 - 16:19

            @Bryanalves: Obscene exposure is an offence. Infants running around naked in their or their neighbour’s backyard isn’t.

            The police may ask the parents to police their infants better.

          • ribbonsofnight on 10/10/2019 - 23:46

            @Bryanalves: I'm sure they'll have to arrest someone at that point. Production and possession of child pornography are serious crimes.

      • macrocephalic on 10/10/2019 - 12:46

        Yes, film someone else's naked child running around - what a stellar idea!

  • veetor on 04/10/2019 - 14:12
    +25

    Get a couple of these.

    https://www.trapping.com.au/store/traps/wild-dog-traps/wts-5…

    • dasher86 on 04/10/2019 - 14:15
      +3

      Bear traps more appropriate.

    • Ozpit on 05/10/2019 - 08:40
      +4

      A couple are not enough. Three are needed.

    • SupeNintendoChalmers on 06/10/2019 - 09:40
      +22

      IT'S A TRAP!

      • downbythecreek on 08/10/2019 - 10:13
        +2

        10 year old account setting up that gag, playing the long game I see.

  • tallkid123 on 04/10/2019 - 14:15
    +13

    I feel sorry for you OP.

    Have you ever thought of a moat?

    Don't fence it off either. Just make it deep enough for the naked one to feel uncomfortable (but not drown in).

    (Being serious, just have a chat with the parents again. They're just being complacent. Probably too buggered to deal with their kids after dealing with their own problems)

    • uedamasaki on 04/10/2019 - 14:53
      +1

      lol, Ive heard of automatic sprinklers, but was afraid they'd enjoy it. or thorny bushes which would keep them out, but I still don't want to see the naked boy
      I do think the kids are difficult though. very destructive and defiant. Im a bit put off with how the father essentially blamed the kids for the roof incident.

    • bringbring on 04/10/2019 - 19:22

      Snakes and alligators, surely (or crocs caus were in oz)

      • TheRealCher on 08/10/2019 - 18:02
        +1

        And make the kids pay for it

        • NachoMafia on 08/10/2019 - 23:10
          +1

          And make your place great again

          • TheRealCher on 08/10/2019 - 23:14

            @NachoMafia: Just don't tell yr friends who helped you win the battle of the feral that tomorrow you're helping their neighbours egg their cars

    • capslock janitor on 07/10/2019 - 11:14

      Tbh they sound like typical bogan barefoot kids at the supermarket that roll on the ground eating and licking worms. Think a moat will stop that? :p

  • qwerty on 04/10/2019 - 14:24

    https://www.bunnings.com.au/sandleford-300-x-225mm-trespasse…

    id stick one up on the roof

    might scare the kids

    • Switchblade88 on 04/10/2019 - 14:25
      +4

      'Oh cool! Free sign to play with!'

    • RM on 04/10/2019 - 14:26
      +9

      Like a 6 year old could read that???

      • seraphim2017 on 04/10/2019 - 14:31
        +10

        a regular 6 year old sure, maybe not one of these ferals in the OP's post!

        • qwerty on 04/10/2019 - 15:43

          Its more for the ferals parents

          • Archi on 11/10/2019 - 16:44

            @qwerty: yeah I don't think the feral parent would be able to read tht sign either

  • [Deactivated] on 04/10/2019 - 14:41
    +22

    A 2, 4 and 6 year olds are left unsupervised and playing with power tools; one is running around naked, another one was found on top of your roof?! How come no one has called DHHS yet? I would.

    If you're happy to turn a blind eye to what his kids get up to while not on your property, send your neighbour an urgent fence notice.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/10/2019 - 15:48
      +2

      In case you do decide to report to RIS, here's the number to call.Your details will be confidential and your identity, if provided, will be protected by law.

    • uedamasaki on 04/10/2019 - 15:55
      +1

      they didn't play with the power tools, but I'm worried of that risk. They haven't climbed on the roof again, so I'm hoping there is no ongoing risk of that. Of course if they climbed again, I would definitely be reporting to child safety.

      • [Deactivated] on 04/10/2019 - 16:07
        +14

        Of course if they climbed again, I would definitely be reporting to child safety.

        The next person who comes across this vulnerable, stark naked child could be a child abuser.Why not just call child services and have an informal chat with them?

        • uedamasaki on 04/10/2019 - 16:37
          +1

          good point. doens't hurt to see what they think

          • Kangal on 04/10/2019 - 17:30
            -5

            @uedamasaki: Plot twist: the OP is actually their parents and is scared of Ed, Edd & Eddy!

      • nikey2k27 on 05/10/2019 - 09:21
        +5

        Call DOCS report them naked kids play with power tool play on your roof. sound like need foster carer system

        • Hardlyworkin on 06/10/2019 - 16:02
          +1

          I'd rather report the kids sitting inside glued to screen all day them those outside causing minor mischief. Patents are apologetic at least.

      • tik tok on 07/10/2019 - 10:34

        You have a duty of care towards the kids too. If their parent's dont look like they care for the child's safety - it is time Child services intervene ! Forget about getting your ass sued, would you be able to live with yourself if something happened to one of the kids on your property ?

        • gimme on 09/10/2019 - 05:15

          I'd personally let natural selection take its course. The gene pool isn't going to contribute much to society me thinks. Then again I'm an elitist prick

    • Cherry12 on 07/10/2019 - 21:02
      +1

      I agree to report them to DHHS. It is unsafe to leave 3 kids unsupervised in an open area.

      Perhaps if child services pays them a visit the parents would supervise them more.

  • slow on 04/10/2019 - 14:42
    +5

    You have to decide how far you want to take it.

    I would probably just cut my losses and pay for the fence

    • RM on 04/10/2019 - 14:47
      +3

      Before they get hurt and sue you for damages

      • ankor on 04/10/2019 - 20:51

        It's not 1999 anymore. With so many prior warnings I doubt there's any juice in any sort of lawsuit like that.

        • berry580 on 04/10/2019 - 23:10
          +1

          Public liability is no longer a thing now in Australia?
          You never know practically stupid Australian laws can get.

          • ankor on 05/10/2019 - 18:57
            +1

            @berry580: Of course it's a thing. I never said it wasn't.

    • RocketSwitch on 08/10/2019 - 10:32

      Me too!

  • onetwothreefour on 04/10/2019 - 14:50
    +2

    How long would the fence be? Can't you just put one up yourself and in a couple of weekends your problem would be solved. Just make sure it's one that kids can't easily climb.

    • uedamasaki on 04/10/2019 - 15:56

      it's pretty long and the terrain is pretty irregular. I thought of it, but I'd prefer to pay someone for this.

    • salbee28 on 04/10/2019 - 16:01
      +2

      Maybe throw some of these on top for an extra challenge for the kids, if cats can't figure it out, I assume neither can these kids.

      https://oscillot.com.au/

      • juki on 07/10/2019 - 23:56

        man that's expensive! should send pics to knock off factories

  • SnoozeAndLose on 04/10/2019 - 14:54
    +1

    First better put up camera and monitor what they have done in your property.
    Then hire and put up temp fence (use around construction site).
    Talk to your neighbour for the permanent fence.

    • orangetrain on 04/10/2019 - 15:10
      -5

      OP would be recording illegal content.

      • RM on 04/10/2019 - 15:19
        +9

        Surely it is not illegal to record on your own property. Do you mean recordings from all the security cams/dash cams are illegal?

          • uedamasaki on 04/10/2019 - 15:57
            +1

            @orangetrain: Yeah, I think that would get me in trouble if I pointed a camera towards their property. I do have a camera, but it is pointed towards my house monitoring my beck deck only.

            • orangetrain on 04/10/2019 - 16:01

              @uedamasaki: Well, make sure you don't keep it. It'll look weird to the computer repairman to find it on your hard drive.

            • [Deactivated] on 04/10/2019 - 16:13
              +2

              @uedamasaki: I would think twice about doing that considering one of those kids is naked. It is illegal to create, possess and/or share sexualised images of people under 18.

              • uedamasaki on 04/10/2019 - 16:16
                +1

                @[Deactivated]: good point… it hasn't captured anything yet, because they don't go through the deck.
                but it would be annoying to think I cannot have security cameras around my house because the neighbour's naked child trespasses.

                I wonder if anyone knows re indecent exposure laws when it pertains to kids. If the parents know the kid is exposing himself to us, yet allows it to continue what's the ramifications of that?

              • kyoba on 04/10/2019 - 21:25
                +17

                @[Deactivated]: (profanity) me. the kid is stark naked of his own volition. the images are not sexualised. it's a photo/video of a trespassing kid who just happens to be naked out in the open and is being held for incriminating evidence for the sake of insurance. can a real lawyer weigh in on this? can holding a nude photo of a child that can be proven its nonsexual intent be a criminal offense?

                • Love a bargain on 05/10/2019 - 15:08
                  +3

                  @kyoba: I was about to say the same.

                  The image of a naked body doesn't necessarily means it's sexualised. If that's true, criminals should just rob a bank naked and the CCTV footage would need to be wiped. Same goes for naked kids breaking into someone else's home and stealing things.

                  Can't see why OP can't video their own home for security purpose and keep the resultant footage for that purpose.

                  In fact, I seriously think that's what OP should do so that. With video evidence, child services would take the report more seriously rather than letting it be trivialised by the parents (who are obviously too soft on the kids). Just imagine what the kids would do to OP's property if they find out/ suspect that OP reported them and child services isn't able to remove the kids.

                • [Deactivated] on 05/10/2019 - 23:48

                  @kyoba: In these situations i would use the "Herald Sun" or "Courier Mail' Criteria - if you had to defend this position in court how would these newspapers portray it?
                  The average Jury member is your tabloid paper reader

                  I would not in any situation put up camera after what the OP has stated - I strongly suggest that the OP puts up a fence instead - the various State Dividing Fences act have mechanisms for the OP to share the cost with the neighbour

                  • UrbanLegend on 07/10/2019 - 18:17
                    +1

                    @[Deactivated]: You have a sick mind to even come to the conclusion than the OP could some how be held accountable for possessing child sexual material by recording trespassers into this own damn property - doesn't matter if it's a child or naked or what. Children and sex isn't something that comes up on most people's mind the first go.

                    • [Deactivated] on 16/10/2019 - 23:57

                      @UrbanLegend: Unfortunately your outrage might make sense to you but it doesn't

                      Particularly following the Royal commission into child sex abuse I would say its certainly at the forefront of the public mind

                      I have discussed this scenario to a friend in child protection and they said you can be held accountable, (particularly if you put up cameras after what's already been said by the OP.)

                      What would be of concern would be filming the children in their own backyard, as there is no fence, waiting for them to cross over.

                      It's not something you really want to be legally tested for, a prosecutor would argue that a fence is the appropriate thing to do, just get on with it. Take them to QCAT if you have to, trash their credit rating if they refuse to pay, put a caveat on their house, charge the next home owner..

                      To be seriously honest the OP should seek some proper legal advice. They can clarify their position with the cameras with Child protection and the police.

              • trapper on 07/10/2019 - 15:16

                @[Deactivated]: naked != sexualised

      • SnoozeAndLose on 04/10/2019 - 15:22
        +1

        If it is your property and things that not in your control shouldn't be illegal

      • brad1-8tsi on 04/10/2019 - 15:37
        +5

        It's the OPs property. He can record trespassers.

          • brad1-8tsi on 04/10/2019 - 15:54
            +3

            @orangetrain: tresspassers that have been told to leave

            • [Deactivated] on 04/10/2019 - 16:16
              -5

              @brad1-8tsi: Those "trespassers" are kids though while OP is the adult. What has he done to prevent this from re-occuring? Has he called child services? Nope. Did he build a fence? Nope. Does he at least have proof that he has informed the parents of the issue? Unlikely.

              It's not looking very good for OP when the police/child services come knocking on his door …

              • uedamasaki on 04/10/2019 - 16:31
                +5

                @[Deactivated]: I've spoken to the parents. I did SMS him so I have a paper trail. I have been trying to get a fence built and will be issuing a notice to fence if I do not get a satisfactory proposal from his parents.

              • smartazz104 on 07/10/2019 - 11:19

                @[Deactivated]: What about the damn parents, why does OP need to do their job?

          • Meeb on 04/10/2019 - 15:56
            +18

            @orangetrain: dude stop it with the "naked children" comment. we get it you're obsessed about naked children.

              • idonotknowwhy on 06/10/2019 - 13:11
                +2

                @orangetrain: I bet you're happy about the metadata retention laws, weakening of encryption, and are probably for Conroy's mandatory internet censorship too.

  • ChillBro on 04/10/2019 - 14:56

    Stash/lock your kids' equipment when they're not in use?

    • uedamasaki on 04/10/2019 - 15:58

      the small stuff we can, but the sandpit and trampoline we can't. We did but an outdoor storage box though

  • [Deactivated] on 04/10/2019 - 15:08
    +33

    Report to child services. Have video evidence ready.

    Parents are obviously negligent.

    (Contemplate just how guilty you'd feel if the kid fell to his death or worse, ends up a vegetable for the rest of his life. It won't be your fault but you'd feel terrible.)

    • o53djz7qTPY4der on 04/10/2019 - 15:25
      -4

      Why would they feel terrible? I wouldn't.

      The kids were uninvited and told to not enter the property. The only people that would feel bad are the parents.

      I'd be hopeful that the terrible consequences would be lesson learnt.

      I agree though, report the parents.

      • owli on 04/10/2019 - 16:03
        +2

        The death of the innocent kid/s wouldn't bother your conscience while knowing you had plenty of reason to intervene and get the authorities involved?

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