Hey team, a follow-up thread for the solar power nation deal that was posted on ozbargain. Will be a good place to compare notes for those of us taking the plunge and others deciding if it’s a good deal or not.
Personally, I‘ve paid my deposit and ordered a system $3,299 in total. 6.6kw Huawei Inverter w/ Risen 315w panels.
Original deal here https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/483479
Well that sucks. Three guys turned up on time this morning at 9. They got on the roof and then … my roof is way too steep! I had no idea. It is colourbond and steep so they couldn't install the panels.
How steep is too steep?
If only they were a decent company that did a site inspection prior to installation, so they could appropriately plan the system rather than justing nearmaps.
See my follow up on Page 2.
I don't think that's fair at all. You can't quite tell it is that steep. And they have emailed back saying they are looking for someone else to do it.
Cuz it's NoWei
Have a support call with the Huawei at the moment about trying to get their API working with Solarfusion.
Can't get it resolved. Been 2 weeks of backwards and forwards with EU support and China. Just want is sorted so I can feed that data into PV Output and Home Assistant… Also installed a relay on the hot water so can make power on decisions based on export data too ( eventually!) not just time.
On a side note paid $3700 with SPN for Huawei inv and meter, 21 X 315 Longi mono and 2 story install.
Been happy with install!
@lowey71 any luck on with Huawei on the API? I’m also getting a Huawei inverter and want to integrate with Home Assistant..
I’ve got a similar deal with risen panels.
Who did the hot water relay? I would like that don’t too
so the relay is to turn the hot water system on & off?
Yeah, so from what I can tell the hot water system is like a flask. Will keep hot water hot for a long time. It’s also a big part of water bills. The idea is to heat the water with solar during the day instead of from the grid at night.
@Bellpop: oh ok, I thought relay would turn it on and off?
I have a gas 26L one but it connected to power. (https://1stchoicehotwater.com.au/product/bosch-optiflow-26l-…)
@Bellpop: Do u know who installs/sets up the relay? Sounds like a good idea. I asked SPN but they said it’s not the solar installers domain.
@Bellpop: I thought the point of these things is to automatically turn on & off?
or I guess they have to have to keep the water at a certain temperature to be able to deliver hot water 'instantly'
@Bellpop: Most certainly is the domain of the solar electrician..
The idea is the decent quality inverter can turn the hot water system on/off when excess generation is occurring to utilise the solar generation the most efficiently
The cheaper inverters may not have this and require additional monitoring hardware to make it work.
@impoze: Savings will be dependant upon system, and how much solar you can use…
If you have off peak hot water it's a pretty hard sell considering the fit exceeds the off peak rate.
any update on getting the API sorted?
looking to link it up with PV output as well.
I went with SPN and viewing the offer on Ozbargain. Yes I had googled their reviews, but honestly many of the complaints didn't make sense, or related to sub-contractor issues. Being in the Sydney Metro are, I took a chance;
- 22 x ET panels (but they asked if I would change to slightly higher-capacity Canadian Solar panels for no cost)
- SAJ Inverter
- $50 deposit
- They were quite honest with the limitations of my dwelling (which I already knew from already having solar), explained how they would deploy a 2 string setup with different feeds into the inverter to minimise losses from an under performing string (yes standard, but good they could call this out).
Didn't promise any ridiculous payback periods.
They came and installed the system a week after ordering.
After delivering but not installing the inverter, I changed my mind and asked for alternate options. They ran me through them, and I landed on a SunGrow (local support) for $100 extra.
This was no hassle to them.
They were not pushy, but Ken was decisive in his recommendations (some people may not like that).
Ken provided is DIRECT number and he always returns emails promptly (even after the sale).
The installers were professional, and the job looks fine.
Only after everything was installed did they ask for payment. So I had panels installed, an inverter delivered and had only forked out $50.
Only time will tell, but in my case I am very pleased so far.
I have had many quotes for solar, but most wanted to deploy too many panels, and push 3 phase inverters, because I have 3 phase power. 3 phase inverters cost a lot more with NO benefit for a 5kw inverter and hurt payback. Some even tried to upsell 10k inverters on a 6k system!! Have they not heard of overlocking!! You want bigger pannels than the inverter to get the most out of non-peak periods.
In my opinion to maximise ROI, with the standard 10c feed-in tariff and no battery you need to consume all the power you generate. Otherwise at 10c feed in and 22c to get out (you need to export twice as much as you require) + more to pay for poles and wires.
Anyway that is just my opinion, and nothing against those that want a bigger system. I have personal issues with the way the materials are mined for batteries so not willing to go there YET, but will consider in the future. [sorry for the ramble]
Loved the ‘ramble’, thanks for the feedback.
I’ve had to push back my install date a week due to a quick overseas holiday next week and SPN were really accommodating despite the earlier install date.
I’ll report back I paid $600 more for the hauwei… perhaps I should have gone for the growatt?!
Thanks again for the feedback, makes me feel better about rolling the dice with these guys.
Btw which provider and FIT did u go with?
Good question, and this is one area I wish my math was better.
After quite a few spreadsheet calculations, for now I am sticking with AGL on a standard rate with my pre-existing 29% discount.
My wife and myself both work from home, so I didn't think we would export much, but it's now looking like unless it's a stinker of a day, I will be exporting a bit.
If I switch to their solar bonus plan, while the FIT is great, usage charges seem a lot higher. This will be a concern over winter, where we tend to run the 3 phase air-con a fair bit.
I am hoping that with the smart meter, to have more insight into my user and make an informed decision, as right now it's estimated.
Suggest sticking with a provider until you have some data then run the numbers through something like wattever.com.au to find the best deal that suits your usage.
@spammenotinoz
Won't they switch you to time of day pricing if you get Smart meter?
@danyool: Yep. This was one of my biggest hurdles as peak electricity with Red is way expensive compared to what we have now.
Photos??
TGTBT
Noone talking about batteries? Is the power wall setup not worth it?
Too expensive
People focus too much on ROI and not on what the usability scenario of the batteries might be. But yeah, if you are going to charge/discharge the batteries every day, totally not worth it at this point in the game.
Apparently battery rebate starts from November 16
Terrible for the environment, research how the materials are extracted and processed.
Really watching this space, hoping that our government is willing to invest in environmentally responsible, mining, processing and manufacturing of batteries.
Is an enormous opportunity for us to lead the world.
mining, processing and manufacturing of batteries
Interesting, do we have whatever it is that needs to be mined to create the batteries?
I suspect we'd just be mining it and shipping it to be manufactured in Asia?
Interesting, do we have whatever it is that needs to be mined to create the batteries?
I suspect we'd just be mining it and shipping it to be manufactured in Asia?
Plenty will be refined here once this project gets off the ground.
I don't see the value in batteries. The return on investment when coupled with battery and hardware life span risks, it just doesn't make sense. Once you calculate your expected savings, it's really hard to justify IMO. I doubt you'll save $2-$4 a day at best.
Maybe if you live in very sunny area and have like 3 families in the 8 bedroom house staying during the daytime at home all the time… Get battery.
Yikes what a niche scenario haha
The usable KW of batteries is mostly linear, if it doesn't work for a 1 person home, it won't work for a 100 person home.
The cost per KWh is where it fails, scaling up doesn't really help.
The only current use cases I see is for off grid solutions where it's either impossible, impractical or not economical to be grid connected.
That and large scale solar/wind battery farms (which get cost savings through reduced infrastructure costs).
I like you mean the opposite. Batteries work best when you are not at home to consume the power during the day so you "store it" and then when you need power you draw from the "battery", avoiding the grid.
If you are home all day, you would would consume the power from the solar and not have a lot going into the battery.
Batteries are a key part if we are to rely more on renewable.
But they make no financial sense now. Heck power is the same price for me now as it was 10 years ago. (After discount, yes the market rates have shot through the roof, but who pays those)
@[Deactivated]: I had a battery system installed earlier in the year ($6k SA Government Rebate), before we installed the battery my thoughts were similar to yours ie/ "store it", but what I realised after the battery is installed it also works pretty hard when we're at home. We have a 10kw solar system, but due to the orientation of panels, most of the day its putting out 4-5-6kw, when we're home and running ovens, toasters, vacuum cleaners etc the use load may exceed the solar generation at that time, especially in Winter and on cloudy days where solar performance jumps around - the battery kicks in to avoid drawing anything from the grid. So I agree that one receives the majority of the battery benefit once the sun goes down, but the battery also cycles on and off all day balancing out usage spikes.
@jason101: The problem is that using the battery is cool and all, but its benefit needs to be quantified in terms of return on investment. How much are you out of pocket to install vs how much you save a year using the batteries and now long will those batteries last before they're dead.
I can't find a good value proposition for batteries in this scenario yet. Heck, even if I could get it all done for $2000, the payback will still be years and unlikely ever be profitable.
I already have about 24kwh of batteries that acquired for free got all excited and then realised that I need to pay about $1 - $3k minimum for hardware (charger, inverter, etc), with the best possible outcome that I save $1 - $2 dollars a day. At those returns, I'd better hope no hardware fails or this will just be a cost exercise.
We have bought a powerwall as part of our solar installation (approx 7.5kW of panels - 7kw effective with microinverters, actual peak of 6.9kW seen).
If you ignore the social/political side for a bit and just focus on the operations and financial side..
It definitely doesn't make a lot of financial sense compared to a pure solar install which has a payback period of as little as 2 years to usually less than 5. After which your solar actually becomes an income producing asset..
I have 18 months of data now that shows our paypack on the whole installation is about 9.7 years. Which isn't bad if you think about the benefits along the way.
The best way to think of a battery system is not with any ROI in and of itself but more like a supercharger for your solar panels that effectively allows them to be 'running' 24h a day rather than 8h..
Yes its great to run the AC during the day when its hot and not feel like you are feeding $2 coins into it while doing so but it's also nice to run that AC at night to sleep when the sun isn't shining and you can still do that free of charge (for the 2-3h you need it)
The biggest win we've had is when our street loses power. It's not terrible but it's a few times a year, sometimes for scheduled reasons
The neighbours note that (particularly in winter) we are still watching TV and running a heater.. while everyone else is looking for torches and batteries as the power stays out for an hour or two when waiting for a repair.
I'd definitely say you should think about it.. even if it's not a pure payback/ROI type answer.
For those on or considering solar also consider time of use billing (ie. Instead of one fixed price per kwh consumed from the grid they price on peak, shoulder and off peak). Given our solar production during peak periods mostly exceeds our usage we average grid consumption of 20% peak 20% shoulder and 60% off peak meaning about $50/qtr additional saving over standard billing.
Used these guys in QLD a few months back. Install is a bit meh, but the system has been consistently generating 20+ kWh per day so pretty happy with it so far. Goodwe 5kw inverter and 24 risen panels. FIT is 9.5c with Powershop, should really shop around.
How much was stupid? What mads the install so meh?
Conduits could have been hidden/tidier, inverter location could have been tidier, just looks like they rushed a little bit. I'm fortunate that my meter and inverter arent exposed.
https://abr.business.gov.au/AbnHistory/View?id=67165934690
So which ABN are they going to use on the contract, just another 1 of the many they have since thrown away? This company is ready to phoenix at a whim.
I can only see one ABN?
But multiple business name.
I thought if it's a phoenix company, they will register a new ABN to hide their history?
My mistake I missed a link
https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/landi…
Is it the original 1 with all the changed names or this one created in 2018?
A bit harsh. It is quite common for a business to change names during the initial stages, using the same ABN.
Once a business has settled on a Brand, it is also quite common for a business to change structure and this requires a changed ABN. You can see from the history that their business structure did indeed change and they now have a share structure.
A Phoenix company will change both the Name and the ABN at the sametime as to hide the linkage, but so can re-launched entities, after merging with another entity. There will normally be warnings or triggers for such an event, case study: Euro Solar.
Clearly Solar Power Nation are not trying to hide their business structure changes. A company getting ready to Phoenix usually would not do this.
The risk would arguably be higher with a budget orientated company, that being said their are examples of people paying 30k for a system and the company folding. Also many cases of people paying high-end installs from premium installers and having no end of service \ warranty issues.
Insolvency is a real risk here, but it's a big leap to imply the company is ready to phoenix at a whim.
Fair comments, I shouldn't have mentioned the phoenix at a whim as I really don't know what's going on behind the scenes
Should get this gadget as well. Looks like it's the real game changer.
https://www.gadgetguy.com.au/emberpulse-i-have-the-data-its-…
Success is short lived and conditional on all home users changing habits.
Any new solar users will get digital meters and the ability to download the data for analysis.
Sure this is next level with visuals.
looks like it's similar to fronius smart meter.
Which is just a tool.
If you don't do anything different after using it (in term of power usage) then you don't save anything more.
My update:
Meant to be installed today and 3 guys turned up on time to do the panels. Climbed roof and said way too steep and too dangerous as very slippery.
I thought that was it! OH well.
Emailed Solar Power Nation - 5 mins later get this back:
'I spoke to the installer and he said its too steep and he is not comfortable in installing the system.
But dont worry about it my operations head is talking to our other installers.
So I will give you an update once the date is confirmed with any installer. But there might be some extra charges for the installation which I will confirm you after i get a reply from my installer'.
Service so far has been top notch! And hopefully i can still get it done for a little more for my steep roof.
They certainly seem motivated. U dealing with ken?
No with Elena who has been great.
didn't they come first to your house for survey and inspection.
Surely the roof condition should be no surprise anymore.
Well they came out today to install after asking me the type of roof.
Update: due to power box being ‘full’ SPN need to wait for smart meter install to happen first, so date pushed back for two weeks. SPN very accommodating on the phone.
Do they check out roof structure? Ours is a little flexy, but am determined to stick in 30 panels onto our 10.5m wide by 6m long north facing roof…
planning to put the deposit down tomorrow for the 21x Risen 315 & Huawei 5K inverter
Initially thought I needed 3-phase but it doesn't seem to be the case.
Just waiting to hear back about the price on the 325/330 risen panels.
regarding spare roof tiles, I only have about 5 spares left, can I just buy these from Boral?
That’s the the setup as me. All stock has australian offices which works for warranty. I was told they only had 315 panels. Let me know if they can do 325/330 and what the price difference is.
got price of $3399 for the 325/330w so for an extra $100, I'll be going for those.
Thanks mate. I’ve just emailed Ken at SPN to see if he can match that too.
Thanks for the feedback. Good to have some team work here. U got an install date yet?
@Bellpop: https://www.risenenergy.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/RS…
I'm going to email Ken as Josh is just pushy..
"Ok, thanks. Sir this is the last day I can't send you Quote right now we are just having flooded of calls every second, Sorry I can't help you today. I have already given you all the best information, please book the system with a minimum $100, we only have 13 systems left. Otherwise, book the same after price rise tomorrow."
did anyone update their home insurance to include solar panels?
I hadn’t even considered it. I wonder what the increase is in the policy
I remember seeing it in a comment on one of the solar deals.
Wasn't sure if it was a requirement for the cover to notify the insurer.
Just make sure your one cover for lighting strikes
Hi Guys, I just put a deposit down today with Mohit. Got 6.6kw risen mini panels with a growwat 5kw inverter with WiFi kit. Ended up being $2849 with installation and double story install. Hope these guys live up to the hype :)
Nice. Did they give u an estimated install date?
I asked for Mid October. They said they will try but can't promise as it depends on the "paperwork" between my energy provider, government and them before they book a install date
Hope these guys live up to the hype :)
Oh..I'm sure they will…
I'm pretty confident most of their installs will live up to the 'hype'
;)
Just updating on my installation. Installers initially came a few weeks ago but roof was too steep and slippery.
So different installers had to turn up today (and had to pay additional $350) to do it. I didn't mind paying that as it was already ridiculously cheap.
They arrived at 8.30am to install panels and electrician arrived around Midday. They are just finishing now.
Photo of inverter:
I'm not an electrician but certainly looks neat and tidy (not sure if that means anything!)
Wifi module was included in the deal so will check that out.
All in all very happy so far.
hey mate looks very neat and looks compliant.
What panels and inverter did you end up getting installed and what was the final price?
Cheers
Yes it was their standard Saj inverter plus the Canadian panels upgrade. All up including steep, tricky install was 2799.
great price mate
give an update in a couple of months and let us know how it's performing.
Wow, that looks awesome. Can I see a pic of the panels too?
Can I also see the thing they pop in the fuse box? Glad you’re happy with the job.
Fuse box:
https://www.linkpicture.com/q/20191003_164937.jpg
Panels:
https://www.linkpicture.com/q/20191003_163951.jpg
Panels really hard to see without a drone!
Wow. Looks great.
bit hard to see, but is that top row end most panel hanging over the roofing ridge?
cool, thanks for the update.
What kind of roof do you have?
Yes colour bond tin roof.
Ended up getting the ladder out to take a look - see here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ffMog3DECYPPcMGv9
Looks good to me.
Wow. Looks awesome.
You have 2 strings of panels?
I think? I actually have no idea. What i got was:
23 x Canadian Solar Premium Tier 1 285W
EDIT:
I look up two strings! No so mine are all one side of my roof. one strong, one side.
there's 2 DC isolators, so that would be two strings
(couldnt have that many panels in one string anyway, would exceed voltage limits)
@poczynek77: max voltage per string for a domestic install is 600Vc
No idea on your panels but quick google says an example Canadian solar 285w panel is 38.3 V open circuit voltage
so a maximum of 14 panels in a string else you would exceed 600V and be non-compliant for a domestic install
hence, 2 strings
How did they do the invertor?
GOt any pics of the cable runs ?
How do the conduit get to the roof.
Also, it's good to see no Top entry yay :)
"Wifi module was included in the deal so will check that out."
They should set that up for you on the day.
Yes let me send photos later when i get home.
Yes they did set up the wifi module - i just meant accessing the info on the web portal. Which i did last night but was pretty clunky.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1453886731514406/search/?que…
If you wanna see the feedback from other installers, have a read.
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James ######- Look at their install gallery😂😂 specifically the end clamps of their array photos🖓🖓
Jay #####- What end caps
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Chris Y##### - LOL I WORKED FOR SOLAR POWER NATION AS AN INSTALLER 😂😂
he's terrible, palmed me off once u trained the workers and told me in no longer needed, customers wait ages before a problem is fixed.
i wouldn't recommend then 😂😂
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Some Quality Solar power Nation work (straight off their website) I guess at that price putting conduit in the roof cavity is just not in the budget???
https://scontent.fadl4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21427348_20…
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Rob ######
How about Solar Power Nation has changed their name on Google Maps so their bad reviews can't be found! Outrageous!
===================================================================================
Nure Alam ( Owner of Solar Power Nation)
Don't know crap or not!
Post a pic, get shot down as being crap, install looks like all there own ones)
Awesome. Would love to see them to compare to mine too.