Home Security Camera Question - Can Ethernet Be Used for Both POE and Data?

Porker on 23/09/2019 - 15:50

Hi All,

Just seeing if anyone has any experience or knowledge in relation to security camera setup. My two-storey house currently has network cable (RJ45 wall sockets) connected through to some of the rooms, with a central RJ45 socket hub/cluster (not sure of term) centrally located on the first/upper floor level.

I'm hoping to install some security cameras, preferably power over ethernet (POE), and just have a few questions which I'm hoping others may be able to assist with. Ideally, any internal security equipment/HDDs etc would be located with my router etc which is already at the central location network hub/cluster (on the first/upper floor).

  1. Can one network cable (I believe it's CAT 6 installed) handle both POE and data? I was hoping to open on the wall socket and install a RJ45 network splitter on each end of the line; one for data and the other for camera POE.

  2. If above cannot be achieved, I was thinking of using the existing/installed network cable as a draw line for say two other network cables. I'd connect a draw line at one end of the network cable and pull through, and then pull that drawn line back with the two network cables connected. This is by no means a preferred option as I'd hate to lose the line internally. Does anyone have any experience with this? Is, for example, network cable strong enough to be pulled, yanked, up and down and squeezed the through house walls and frame?

  3. I am considering WiFi security options (eg. Arlo Ultra 4K or Eufy systems), but just want to eliminate the POE option first before considering this.

  4. Are there any systems that can operate both POE and WiFi cameras? While POE will work for some cameras for the house, my front door would need WiFi as there's not an existing RJ45 socket nearby and there's no way of externally accessing the ceiling/roof above/near the front door to feed network cable. Plus all front of house RJ45 sockets (assuming above 1 works) would be occupied.

Thanks in advance.

Electrical & Electronics Security Camera

Comments

  • casho on 23/09/2019 - 15:54

    UTP can support POE, generally 15.4 watts but can do 30 watts
    I would not recommend a splitter
    I use Swann WIFI cameras as they detect heat and then trigger, the other models detect movement but you end up with 99% false alerts because a bush moved, or the sun cast a shadow
    You could also try Ethernet over power, where you use power points to power and transport the data

    • Porker on 23/09/2019 - 16:51

      Cheers for reply - which Swann system do you use?

      • casho on 24/09/2019 - 08:31

        Wire-Free 1080p Smart Security Camera

  • boomramada on 23/09/2019 - 16:15

    1) Yes
    4) Most cameras support WIFI but only few capable of direct POE, although you can use POE splitter in some cases. Depend on the required current.

    • Porker on 23/09/2019 - 16:51

      :)

  • pjetson on 23/09/2019 - 16:36
    +1

    There are two types of power over ethernet, and both provide power and data over the one cable at the same time. With 10/100Mb ethernet, only four wires (two pairs) are used out of the available eight wires (four pairs) for data. The other wires are not used. So, one type of power over ethernet (called passive POE, it's the cheap option) uses the extra two pairs for power. In the other type (called 802.3af, the more expensive option), the power is delivered over the same wires as the data .

    Splitters take advantage of the fact that 10/100Mb ethernet only uses half the available wires, with one part of the split using the normal data pairs and the other part of the split using the normally unused pairs.

    You can see the conflict. Passive POE wants the spare pairs, and splitters want the spare pairs. So, you can't have both. Gigabit (1000Mb) ethernet also uses all eight wires for itself, so passive POE and splitters are not possible at all with gigabit ethernet.

    You may be able to use an existing cable to draw more cables, IF the existing cables are not fastened down and do not pass through tight holes or corners. Unfortunately, you run the risk of losing your existing cables.

    You can use a small network switch to "split" an ethernet cable into multiple connections. Five port and eight port switches are common, with a typical five port (non POE) switch being about the size of a pack of playing cards and costing as little as $30. However, a network switch needs power.

    If your house is brick veneer (ie there is a gap between the outer bricks and the internal plaster), you should be able to easily run new cables down and across outside walls. Is your "central location" in the middle of the house or is it on an outside wall?

    Even if you have a Wi-Fi camera for the front door, it still needs power and therefore wiring. It may be possible to cut a small hole in the cement sheet ceiling of the verandah and get access through the framework into the front of house wall cavity and thereby gain access to the rest of the outside walls of the house.

    Who did the network cabling of your house? Some cablers (although not many, sadly) take pictures of their work before the plaster goes up, and that information would be of fantastic help in determining what can and cannot be done.

    I think you should contact a cabler and ask them to quote you on what you need.

    • Porker on 23/09/2019 - 16:51

      Cheers for reply - very informative.

      The 'central location' is central against an internal wall. I think it'd be easier to give up on trying to run things through there any maybe just find an alternative location for security hub (ground floor would be easiest).

      Builder was Metricon and my experiences has not been great (even post-build to come address issues), such that there's no luck (I think) on getting info about who installed the cable.

      I didn't think about the existing cable being fastened down too.

      I did talk to one electrician and my impression was that it was in the 'too hard' basket. I've not heard of 'cablers' and I'll look into that.

  • pjetson on 23/09/2019 - 16:59

    It may still be possible to get cables into your central location from outside walls by running the cables through the roof space.

    • Porker on 23/09/2019 - 17:18

      The closest external wall (and one that actually connects to the location) to the central location is a straight wall from ground up to the first floor roof. I suspect the cables come down from the roof to the central location rather than go up from the cavity between levels. If they indeed come down, that first floor roof is VERY high up.

      Might just bite the bullet and get a cabler out to quote up the installation. I'm definitely not getting up on the roof, plus the available man hole space only caters for skinny/small people. I expect some roof tiles would need to be removed to properly access the holes leading to the central location.

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