Poll: [EV Cars] Honda E vs VW ID.3

thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 15:39
Last edited 18/09/2019 - 18:28

So these two in-depth looks at the Honda E & the VW ID.3 came out on Autogefuhl my favourite German car reviewer (apparently slightly more affordable EV’s).

Honda E

VW ID.3

Please vote on the electric-vehicle you would prefer.

Note: The VW ID.3 vehicle is a prototype vehicle, while the Honda E is extremely close to final design.

My personal thoughts:
First off: That cutout in the boot-lid on the VW, imagine getting your fingers caught in that.
Also if you are new to the reviewer, he is a tall person with long legs, so I think that design flaw of the seat-heating button will only apply to people with similar stature.

I would prefer a more conventionally designed appearance / function inside and out of fully-electric cars, similar to conventional gasoline-models. I would prefer familiarity over ‘special’ electric-car appearance, like all conventional HVAC controls in the interior etc like previous gasoline-models.

Poll Options

  • 73
    Honda E
  • 24
    VW ID.3
Automotive Car Honda Volkswagen

Comments

  • ESEMCE on 18/09/2019 - 15:48
    +3

    Honda for me, solely cause it reminds me of my old 79 Civic

  • whooah1979 on 18/09/2019 - 15:54

    Why are these EV so small? What is wrong with designing one that have proper arms for both arms?

    • thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 15:58
      +1

      The Honda is small, the VW is slightly larger, but apparently thanks to the EV motors taking up less overall-space (longer wheelbase + A-pillar moved forward), the interior of the VW is close to that of a conventional sedan.

      It looks like Honda kept a more traditional vehicle shape.

    • spackbace on 18/09/2019 - 16:20

      Weight of batteries to drive bigger cars?

      Supply and demand? England/Europe prefer small cars

      • Kangal on 18/09/2019 - 17:38
        +4

        I'd say its probably price. Battery technology is improving and price is dropping, but not at a pace that the business managers are happy with. They want to say "me too" for the EV Race, for them the earlier, the better.

        edit: I think eMotor technology has practically been perfected for over a decade now, but we need to see battery density go up further. For electric bicycles and scooters they only need a x1-fold increase, for motorbikes we need something like x2 increase, maybe a x2-x3 fold increase for regular cars, for heavy-lift equipment something like x5 increase, for airplanes we need almost x30 increase, whereas helicopters demand a rigid x40-fold increase (which is theoretically impossible imho). This is just to illustrate where we are on the iceberg. The moment someone creates a Mobile Arc Reactor, he or she would have solved the energy problem and become a trillionaire.

    • SydStrand on 18/09/2019 - 18:17
      +1

      Unless you regularly carry rear passengers, a supermini is fine even today. And because these cars are also intended for city driving, smaller = parking convenience and weight reduction. Going electric also frees up interior space; the Honda e already looks far more spacious than the similarly sized Jazz.

      • thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 18:43

        While it may be similar in size to the Jazz, I expect the E to be wider. So more ‘square’ if you will, but still a bit tight on rear legroom.
        Also it has a tiny turning-circle (smaller than London cab apparently) & it’s rear-wheel drive (helped achieve small turning-circle).

      • [Deactivated] on 18/09/2019 - 20:23
        +1

        What do people with kids do?

        Edit: NVM. I've just remembered how my missus couldn't bear to let go of her yellow suzuki swift and managed to fit in our twins and the dog in their for a couple of years. Where there's a will…

        • SydStrand on 19/09/2019 - 22:33

          What do people with kids do?

          Look at a different car? The Aussie market is rotten with family-size cars, especially SUVs. Even the EV sector already has the Model 3 and Hyundai Ioniq, and they'll be even more. If you don't regularly carry 4, or have a baby seat, a city car is very liveable. Plus as you mentioned, you can still make if work if you really wanted to.

        • NigelPearson on 20/09/2019 - 05:50

          Sell the kids for scientific experiments?

  • whooah1979 on 18/09/2019 - 15:59
    +5

    Please vote on the vehicle you would prefer.

    Please add an other option.

    • thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 16:07

      Sorry I have tried adding poll options before and it always fails.

      I think it’s fairer to compare EV’s to EV’s.
      Try watching the videos with a fresh perspective, and vote for which one you would prefer just based on the videos. And skipping this poll is another option.

      I have made an edit: Changed ‘vehicle’ to ‘electric-vehicle’.

    • Ugly on 18/09/2019 - 16:51
      +1

      Like "I wouldn't buy an EV" ?

    • lachhelix on 20/09/2019 - 10:34

      I agree. Based on design, they both look absolutely atrocious

  • [Deactivated] on 18/09/2019 - 16:18
    +2

    Neither. My heart is set on this one and my head on this one.

    • whooah1979 on 18/09/2019 - 17:59

      1/2 million and the best they may do is PU leather.

      • [Deactivated] on 18/09/2019 - 18:01

        Who said it's going to be 1/2 mil? It'll be under $250k.

        Edit: No PU . Either sustainably tanned leather or "Race-Tex", which is a suede- like microfiber material (like Alcantara) combined with a textile material in the seats and doors. It's nice having the option of non-animal-based products in an EV, even though, visually, the Race-Tex interior seems like it'd be more at home in one of Porsche's hard-core GT cars.

        • [Deactivated] on 19/09/2019 - 16:38
          +1

          The Turbo and Turbo S will not be under $250k. They will be in the $300-400k range on the road with options. The base model will, probably $200k before options, and It's going to be slower than a V6 Camry with the same range as an i3. No thanks.

    • thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 18:07

      Family person I see. Although you could get away with fitting in the ID.3 I think, except the boot space + range may be a bit too small.
      Tesla have received a lot of hype I think, but I would feel better putting money down on something from a long-term car manufacturer.
      Just wait and see, I’m sure the other companies (Honda / VW etc) will release larger size EV’s as well.

      • [Deactivated] on 18/09/2019 - 18:08

        Family person

        A wife + between 3 and 4 kids + a (thankfully) small dog.

        • thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 18:12

          Regarding the Porschya, I am a function person so a commuter car is enough for my needs.
          I think Porsche expects Tesla to become a ‘premium’ brand after all the other manufacturers come in with EV’s, so they want to be a competitor to the new Tesla I think.

          • [Deactivated] on 18/09/2019 - 19:29

            @thebadmachine: I can't ever see Tesla becoming a luxury brand. They prioritise innovation and performance over style and always will. Nothing wrong with that : the Tesla S is the better car of the 2 on every level AND is cheaper and will get cheaper.

            The only reason I and many others are still considering getting a Taycan is because Porsche produces the kind of cars that dreams are made of. They will be cannibalising the sales of their 911s and panameras with the production of the Taycan and competing against themselves in the name of future-proofing their business.

            • thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 19:34
              +2

              @[Deactivated]: I think becoming a premium brand is a possibility for Tesla.
              When the market is flooded with EV’s from all the other companies I think they will struggle to compete with ‘commuter’ models.
              You may be right they may innovate instead of become premium, but either way I think they will look into charging a premium (try to maintain higher prices of their cars) and say they are ‘innovative’ or ‘premium’.

              • [Deactivated] on 18/09/2019 - 20:14
                -1

                @thebadmachine: Tesla’s mission is to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy. They want to grow aggressively and I believe will do so by making their cars more affordable. On the other hand, Porsche is quite happy with a small slice of the market so long as they are seen as a luxury brand and:

                our vehicles should always be something special.We also expect extraordinary results when it comes to the profitability of the company.

                A Porsche will always cost more than a Tesla. They are not rivals . Those who can afford a Porsche will get one; those who can't will get a Tesla.

                • Thinkscape on 19/09/2019 - 08:32
                  +2

                  @[Deactivated]:

                  A Porsche will always cost more than a Tesla. They are not rivals . Those who can afford a Porsche will get one; those who can't will get a Tesla.

                  Nah. Taycan is still 10 years behind Model S. Looking at incoming reviews and comparisons, i'm not alone in this evaluation.
                  Except for higher price and better internal finish (plush materials in cabin), it has nothing to offer over 40% cheaper tesla.

                • [Deactivated] on 19/09/2019 - 16:44
                  +1

                  @[Deactivated]: You've been sucked in by the marketing. The best selling Porsche is a Macan (and by a mile). It costs the same as the best selling Tesla (Model 3 LR) in the USA, to within a few $k, (both about $USD45k). Porsche certainly sells premium cars, but their real market is convincing people all their cars are premium while selling mountains of small and medium SUVs, based on Audis. As Thinkscape has said, the Model S is faster, cheaper, has 1.5 times the range as the Taycan, and because it's more efficient, on a V3 charger at 200kw, it puts on the same range in terms of km/h as the Taycan at 270kw. Oh, and autopilot. The Taycan has a trump card in it's Ring time, but the 2020 Model S prototype just did a 7:24 lap around the ring, 20 second faster than the Taycan Turbo did, and that was on an industry day, with other cars on the track.

                  • [Deactivated] on 19/09/2019 - 19:31

                    @[Deactivated]: From my comment above:

                    the Tesla S is the better car of the 2 on every level AND is cheaper (…)

                    As for my being sucked in by marketing, have you ever driven a Porsche on a long, deserted stretch of road? I've taken both a Carrera and 3 iterations of the macan on road trips. It's amazingly addictive.Granted the Macan is my daily and mostly get used for kids drop-offs, pickups, soccer/ ballet/ footy practice, colesworths trips and daily commute. But once in a while, when I do get the opportunity to unleash the beast and let it roar, it's pretty exhilarating :) Neither the F-pace that my wife briefly owned nor the Lexus SUV that she test-drove for a week can compare.So yes, Porsche do sell premium cars, incuding SUVs.

                    Are they worth their price tags? Hard to say as I've never paid RRP for one. Ask me in 3 years' time when I go into early retirement and no longer have access to corporate discounts or tax incentives to get one :)

                    • [Deactivated] on 19/09/2019 - 20:00

                      @[Deactivated]: Sure, but the F Pace and Lexus SUV are two particularly bad cars to compare the Macan too. End of the day it's just and Audi Q5 in drag. I've not driven a Macan, but I've had a go in the latest Cayenne, and I was unimpressed. Not particularly fast, and the suspension was ridiculously firm considering what kind of car it is. But yes, you won a Macan, so of course you've been sucked in by the marketing. From my understanding, while the Macan looks fast and sounds fast, I was under the impression that even the Macan Turbo isn't particular fast, (even a GLA45 is quicker).

                      • [Deactivated] on 19/09/2019 - 20:26

                        @[Deactivated]: My last upgrade was meant to be a Cayenne to fit the 3rd child but I was unimpressed by it too. It looks and drives like a bloated Macan with , like you've said, ridiculously firm suspension. I got another Macan instead.

                        End of the day it's just and Audi Q5 in drag.

                        Ouch! Not true. The macan has the unmistakeable porsche personality and also , perhaps more importantly , I like curves and I cannot lie :p

                        What did you end up getting?

                • thebadmachine on 19/09/2019 - 21:47

                  @[Deactivated]: One thing I can see is when the rest of the market catches up with a EV family,
                  Tesla will probably have market leading full-autonomy as a main feature.
                  And that will likely be one ‘selling point’ or innovation (among others innovations eventually).

                  I’m sure many would be willing to pay extra for full-autonomy.
                  Whether it will work well among other ‘normal’ cars on the road is another story, but if it does work I think it will sell.
                  Full-autonomy would be a luxurious feature, and that is just my line of thought on Tesla becoming ‘premium’.
                  The future Tesla would probably be marketed as the highest functioning full-autonomy, have the best range in its class, best safety rating, best charging / battery-tech etc.
                  It would seem realistic to price it alongside other premium vehicles.
                  Just my opinion.

  • wannagrababargain on 18/09/2019 - 16:26

    My heart says Honda E but my head says VW ID.3 (if it really can be ramped up and mass produced in the way VW estimates)

    Personally I prefer the more crazier 'special looking EV' concepts and love that quirky Honda E actually exists! I feel like a bespoke EV platform is the only way to go at this point if you are a car maker designing a new EV in 2019. I really hope VW follow through with the "ID" line in parallel to Golf rather than trying to muddy the waters with an electric Golf. There's probably room for both approaches though. BMW have confirmed the Mini Electric for Australia, which is probably the most conventional design/function EV ever made..and that seems to already have a large following overseas.

    • thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 18:03
      +1

      I like BMW’s wireless charging pad they developed.
      It’s essentially a pad which you centre in the garage where the nose end of your car goes, and so every time you pull in it automatically checks & charges the battery overnight. Saving you from having to plug anything in.

      • [Deactivated] on 19/09/2019 - 16:36
        +2

        Wireless charing pads have big losses. If you're charing your phone, that's fine, but when you're putting in 20-30kwh, and you're losing another 15kwh in losses, it adds up in terms of $$$. You'd be blowing $10 into the air each time you charged the thing.

        • Zondor on 19/09/2019 - 16:57

          If you own a BMW then you can probably afford to blow $10 into the air.

        • thebadmachine on 19/09/2019 - 17:55

          Yes I agree. I have expressed my thoughts on losses with wireless charging tech in phones (I would prefer a lighter and less fragile phone), I see the tech is too young to balance out the extra weight / fragility of the glass back.
          I see the garage charging-pad as a good idea when the technology eventually improves.

          • [Deactivated] on 20/09/2019 - 00:05

            @thebadmachine: It's physics. You have loses through induction. You're not going to get anywhere near the efficiency of just plugging the car in, and when you're talking about EV levels of power, you can't afford to wirelessly charge them, unless the electricity is free.

      • wannagrababargain on 19/09/2019 - 17:19

        That's all just fluff and distractions so they can say "Oh yea we're working on EVs but we haven't solved the wireless charging issue yet!" BMW should concentrate on making an actual electric luxury BMW branded car (not a mini, not an iwhatever, not a hybrid i-performance edition) before pushing these pie in the sky ideas. If people who own an EV really 'forget' that they own an EV that needs electricity then IMO a cheaper and more practical solution would be that your car beeps annoyingly at you after you park it and don't plug it in after 30 seconds (obviously a feature u could turn off).

        • thebadmachine on 19/09/2019 - 17:51

          I think it’s more about convenience than actually forgetting to plug in, I mean most of us are already filling up at the pumps so plugging in would be second nature.
          As Burnertoasty mentioned above there are more losses when charging wirelessly, so I think it is more of a luxury. But eventually when technology improves I see the Garage charging-pad as a smart idea.

  • Gareth on 18/09/2019 - 16:52

    I'm impressed with the whole approach that VW is taking - it's not just a single model - there is a whole family of EVs to come from this. The ID 3 is essentially their intended volume model (and one could see it, or a slightly smaller model - one day - replacing the Golf). With the 77kWh battery it should have fairly good range too.

    That said, I prefer the Honda for a host of non-practical reasons. :-}

    It is good to see car designers getting serious without just copying what Tesla's doing.

    • Bid Sniper on 18/09/2019 - 17:48
      +1

      They were going to go broke, they have no choice

    • thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 17:51

      As far as I know the ID.3 is the Golf equivalent in the VW family of EV models.
      I saw another quick overview on YouTube (top gear I think) and they mention it is a few cm taller & wider than the Golf, it just looks bigger because of the extended A-pillar and ‘van’ like proportions.

      I think it is good to see the experienced car manufacturers showing what they can do with EV.

  • crentist on 18/09/2019 - 17:34

    both very nice. that honda looks amazing. dunno about those side mirrors though, whats the point of that. overall pretty great though
    id like if it lead to more of the tiny kei cars getting out of japan, because that kind of cute styling is already pretty common, and they have some awesome looking models around.

    the 10 year old daihatsu mira gino is a bit of a standout, they basically just ripped off the original mini. the current one is a bit closer to that honda though

    • thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 17:54

      In the video I linked they explain the ‘LCD screen’ side mirrors in the Honda are in a very natural / familiar position, compared to the Audi e-tron which has the LCD screens further down on the dash in the corners (horrible).

      • crentist on 18/09/2019 - 18:15

        i saw that bit (didnt watch all of the videos yet in case its explained more elsewhere)
        but ive never heard of lcd side mirrors before. im wondering how useful they would be. im sure theyre probably great and super visible in more conditions than regular mirrors, but they also seem a little gimmicky

        then again, apparently they are pretty effective

        • thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 18:20

          The new Land Rover has an LCD centre mirror, which is a normal mirror as well, but automatically becomes LCD when the view becomes obstructed. Clever I thought.

    • abb on 19/09/2019 - 16:16
      +1

      dunno about those side mirrors though, whats the point of that

      less drag, therefore longer range. One assumes they've done the maths on power used for the LCD screen…

  • Bid Sniper on 18/09/2019 - 17:49

    Honda hands down.

    VW we owned has electrical gremlins, now an electric VW, yeah no thanks, looks like though

  • [Deactivated] on 18/09/2019 - 17:52
    +2

    OK, the ID3 is not in prototype stage, it's basically production ready.

    They are completely different classes of car, the ID3 is essentially the next generation Golf (but electric from the ground up), the Honda is a town car. The ID3's interior was quite disappointing, quite downmarket with hard plastics and cheap looking materials. It looks more downmarket than a regular Golf. For the coin they are going to charge, you'll be able to pick up a Tesla Model 3 for only a small amount more, and that is a much better car in pretty much every way.

    • thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 17:57

      In the video they say the vehicle they are filming is still a VW prototype (makes the comment as he demonstrates the door closing sound), so many changes may happen.
      While the Honda vehicle is basically what it is going to be when on sale.
      I too prefer if it looked like a Golf inside (like the e-golf) with the familiar layout.

      They are completely different classes of car

      Yes but both suitable for close to the city, like some people shopping for Golf end up buying Polo, and some shopping for Polo end up with Golf.

      • [Deactivated] on 18/09/2019 - 18:08

        No, the VW is not a city car. It's a car you can take anywhere. It's got a decent range with the big battery and reasonably fast charging. It doesn't matter that they are telling you the VW is a prototype in the video, that is the production car. The Honda is far more of a prototype than the VW.

        • thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 18:18

          I have been reading about the Honda E for awhile now, and seen the videos on the prototype.

          You can have your own opinion, but I have heard from many sources the Honda is the final model.
          I trust the German reviewer I linked, he is very meticulous and the first thing he says is “This is the final production model”.

          The ID.3 may be production ready, but the vehicle in the video is stated as a prototype.

  • SydStrand on 18/09/2019 - 18:12

    Honda e is cute as a button, and that interior is amazing. But range would always top my priorities when shopping electric, and the Honda isn't great.

  • JIMB0 on 18/09/2019 - 18:15
    +4

    At least VW can't cheat on emissions with this one.

    • Thinkscape on 19/09/2019 - 08:29
      +5
      • At least VW can't cheat on emissions with this one.

      VW:
      - hold my bier und lederhosen!

      2023:
      - BREAKING: VW batteries found to leak 500 rads/km, manufactured from depleted uranium, ground baby seals and discarded asbestos.

      • abuch47 on 19/09/2019 - 22:43

        VW: its only 3.6 roentgen

  • pegaxs on 18/09/2019 - 18:27

    WTF! €34,000 for the Honda. That’s about $55,000AUD before any tax, delivery and on road costs are factored into it.

    I want to pick one, but at this price point, it’s just not going to happen. I want to get on the electric bandwagon, but I’m not going to be bent over a barrel in the process. I think the Kona electric makes a lot more financial sense at the moment with its size and range.

    Unfortunately, there is just too much difference in price between these vehicles and similar sized petrol variants. There is a lot of fuel to be had in a $20~30,000 price difference. I still think that hybrids are the way to go as a market stopgap until the price of larger batteries comes down.

    • thebadmachine on 18/09/2019 - 18:29

      Just pick the one you like the design of more.

      I agree with your hybrid statement.

      • pegaxs on 18/09/2019 - 18:55
        +2

        I cant pick one, because for me, it isn't about "what it looks like" it's about the package in its entirety. Unfortunately, the price of electric vehicles is a huge part of what they are. And like anything pretty, it can soon turn out sour if the price isn't reflective of what I would be looking for in a car.

        And for me, part of the attractiveness of the car is its perceived value in terms of features and usage as a factor of its purchase price. And at the moment, as "cute" and "quaint" as these cars are, there is no getting over that big, ugly birth mark of a price tag. I would sooner pick a car with great features and a reasonable price tag, but is ugly as hell, over a "cute" car with nice features that cost 3 times the price.

        The Honda e is a plethora of gimmicks wrapped up in the shell of a retro 80's Honda Civic. Most of that gadgetry will be gone by production time or will only be available on the very top of the line model. So, I cant vote for it, because it's not what it will end up being.

        The VW ID.3 is a more sensible take on the EV scene. It isn't as "cute" as the Honda, but it does seem a lot more practical. The lay out of the interior and the size of it, the range, all makes sense compared to the Honda. But again, at an estimated €30,000+ price tag, there are a lot of fuel for a Golf in that price difference. And, let's face it, it's a VW…

    • lbsyc on 19/09/2019 - 10:57

      until the government decides to subsidise EV, the premium price of even lower budget EV will turn away many people.

  • profar on 18/09/2019 - 20:28
    -3

    Cmon the OP saving the environment with a car depreciated away at 10 k pa .

    Very smart lol .

    • brendanm on 19/09/2019 - 16:15
      +5

      I don't understand what this says.

  • Thinkscape on 19/09/2019 - 08:38
    +1

    Note: The VW ID.3 vehicle is a prototype vehicle, while the Honda E is extremely close to final design.

    Honda E: European release in 2019, and then in Japan in 2020
    ID.3: release some time in 2020. Given it's September, I'd consider both as viable options.

    But both of them seem smaller and have less range than Kona/E-Niro.
    Both of them are way smaller, lower range, slower and less refined compared to Model 3 (not mentioning safety, driver assistance, BMU, plethora of software features and free OTA updates)

    Even though you'd need to stretch yourself to $70k, Model 3 is still a better option compared to those two, for a small family car.

    • [Deactivated] on 19/09/2019 - 16:33

      The VW is a much bigger car than the Kona. Have you seen a Kona in real life? The reason it has so much range is that the vehicle is tiny. It also doesn't have fast charging.

  • decryption on 19/09/2019 - 08:47
    +1

    The Honda isn't coming to Australia and the VW isn't coming here until 2022 :(

  • Speckled Jim on 19/09/2019 - 09:36
    +1

    Aussie researchers had just about perfected Zinc-Bromine batteries a few years ago. Super-fast charging, cheaper (no lithium), no capacity loss, non-combustible, much lighter than anything else AND flexible to boot as the bromine bit is gel.
    So…where the bloody hell are they?!

    • abb on 19/09/2019 - 16:22
      +2

      Zinc-Bromine batteries

      Specific energy 34.4 – 54 W·h/kg
      Energy density 15.7 – 39 W·h/L

      vs Li-ion

      Specific energy 100 – 265 W·h/kg
      Energy density 250 – 693 W·h/L

      So, if you want the batteries to take up 16x the space and 4x as much weight, Zinc Bromide is where it's at.

      • Speckled Jim on 19/09/2019 - 17:04

        So…the researcher on Catalyst was getting a bit ahead of himself? Bugger.

    • [Deactivated] on 19/09/2019 - 16:31

      Lithium is super cheap, what are you on about?

      • Speckled Jim on 19/09/2019 - 20:00

        Wasn't talking about your PBS meds.

        So a commodity not traded on any major exchange, yet whose value is over USD $16000/tonne is super cheap?
        What does that make zinc, which is currently USD $2320/tonne?

        I'm here all night.

        • [Deactivated] on 19/09/2019 - 20:05

          Sure, super cheap is an exaggeration, but it's abundant and as demand increases in the next few years, supply will also (but you're right, there'll be a lag time where prices increase probably). That being said, Cobalt, used in most Lithium batteries is twice the price of Lithium. Also, Lithium prices have doubled in the last year. Luckily some manufacturers have inked fixed price supply contracts.

  • HardlyCharly on 19/09/2019 - 12:17

    Japanese and cute over German and unreliable any day!

  • Windows98 on 19/09/2019 - 16:18

    Neither of these are available in Australia

    • [Deactivated] on 19/09/2019 - 16:31
      +1

      Neither of these are in production…

  • abb on 19/09/2019 - 16:23

    Nissan Leaf, because it has a proven track record.

    If I had to go with one of those two, Honda because I don't like VW's cheating ways.

    • [Deactivated] on 19/09/2019 - 16:30

      You realise Nissan Leafs have a terrible track record, right? The battery is aircooled, with no proper BMS (this applies for both the old and the new models), which means you get severe degradation.

      • abb on 19/09/2019 - 16:33

        Actually, no, I did not know that, thanks for the info. They seem to get good reviews, but of course reviews are done with a brand new car.

        BRB starting a BMS add-on company.

        • [Deactivated] on 19/09/2019 - 16:33

          Yeah that's not how it works.

  • narcoleptic-haze on 19/09/2019 - 16:53

    I'm a fan of VW and have a 2017 Golf so the ID3 looks pretty cool to me. But I absolutely love the look of the little Honda e in that green colour. I'm not so convinced about the dashboard design though. The flat upright positioning of the 2 main screens on a horizontal wood dash, and the separate wing mirror screens all look a little disjointed. Would've been really nice for it all to flow together in a long section that shaped/curved slightly around the whole cockpit.

    Sadly I bet neither will be sold in Australia anytime soon.

  • darkchoc on 19/09/2019 - 18:05
    +2

    Hundred hand slap!

  • meatgasm on 20/09/2019 - 02:21
    +2

    Im waiting for the Hammerhead Eagle i-Thrust to go into production.

  • field1985 on 20/09/2019 - 10:53

    Why limit it to two cars that are not even available in Australia?

    There is a raft of EV being released by major manufacturers:

    Hyundai Kona
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LATZ0g-Sz2s

    Renault Zoe
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYBz_5H2jdw

    Kia Soul
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdzeFtVOTc8

    Peugeot e208
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rILaB_JTmRw+

    Mini Electric (which will be cheaper then the petrol model)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6csoYiUzltc

    The Honda is the poorest value, has nice looks but a terrible range (220 km) and is not available in Aus.

    The Hyundai is a standout for practicality/price/range (449km - more then double the Honda), and its already available.

    https://www.hyundai.com/au/en/cars/suvs/kona/kona-electric

    • DonWilson on 20/09/2019 - 18:25

      There's also the Hynudai Ioniq. It probably isn't worth considering the pure EV model when the Kona is only a little more expensive and better on most fronts but there is the Plug In Hybrid model which I'm pretty keen on.

      With a full battery charge you get 63km on the electric engine meaning most daily driving will be pure electric but it has a regular petrol system as well. You'll never be caught short or need to carefully plan your longer trips to go through charging stations and wait for charges. But if you're a city driver you'll likely use almost only electric.

  • Roman Sandstorm on 20/09/2019 - 11:45

    @field1985

    The Honda is the poorest value, has nice looks but a terrible range (220 km)

    This would be a perfectly valid criticism - if this vehicle wasn't specifically designed as a city car. There are very few cities in the world where the daily commute will exceed 220 km.

    It's like complaining that your can opener can't brew coffee.

    • field1985 on 20/09/2019 - 13:29

      So? The majority of the cars on that list are "city cars", but the Honda is the only one with such abysmal range.

      There are a wide variety of reasons its poor value, the range is just one. Watch the video for more.

      Also, Australian cities are that large. Melbourne is 90km to drive across, Sydney is 70-80km.

      If you like the Honda, go for it (except its not available in Australia). But know that you are getting the poorest value EV for the money.

  • Roman Sandstorm on 20/09/2019 - 15:07

    I guess the 'value' will be determined by its market. I have a feeling the demographic for the Honda is likely to be young, employed professionals, with plenty of disposable income. As I'm sure we all know, this group is heavily influenced by style and fashion, perhaps equally as much as by pure 'value' for money.

    But I really must contest the whole 'range' issue for a city car. Yes, Melbourne is 90 km, say from Pakenham to Melton. But you could probably count on the fingers of… er… one finger… how many people actually do that daily commute. (Which, BTW, would still be within the range of the Honda.)

    People are so obsessed with range with EVs, but the obsession does not marry up with actual facts.

    Australia's average commuting distance (averaged between all capital and major regional cities) is 15.6 km. Commuting distances You have to go to a lot of standard deviations from the norm to start running into 220 km limitations.

    Many surveys have shown that the overwhelming majority of car trips are short, and well within the range of even the least efficient EV. A notable study of nearly 750,000 car trips in the US showed that 99% are below 70 miles (112 km), and the average trip was 14 km. The US is a good analogue for Australia in many ways, but actually has more and larger rural cities further distributed apart. US car trip distances

    I think there may be a certain 'macho' or 'Aussie mythology' factor to many Australians believing they absolutely need a car that can travel vast distances without refuelling. And thus EVs are unsuitable for our country. Australians don't do long interstate trips any more than any other people in the world, but I think we like to think that we do. Just like we like to imagine that we are all sun-dusted knockabout Acubra-wearing decent country folk. (When, in reality, we are one of the most urbanised countries in the world - and always have been.)

    • field1985 on 20/09/2019 - 16:23

      I agree, the focus on range is basically a moot point for city dwellers. The majority of trips in suburban/urban Aus could be done with the Honda.

      But keep in mind that an EV's range (like iPhone batteries) decrease over the life of the car.

      The more often you charge (the Honda would be daily), the faster the battery loses storage capacity.

      The Hyundai caught my eye solely because of the range, as my mother travels 400km regularly to visit her grandkinds.

      It would make a lot of sense for her to buy the Hyundai. She would never have a petrol bill or need to recharge during the trip.

      • [Deactivated] on 20/09/2019 - 16:43
        -1

        No one is going to buy an EV that can only take them to work and back. Range and efficiency is the key in EVs, regardless of where you live. You also don't have to worry about degradation on good EVs. Teslas as an example show very little degradation, thanks to a great BMS. There are tonnes of graphs online showing this. If your mother wants to regularly travel 400kms, there is literally one EV on the market which has that range including a buffer for bad weather/cold. That's the Tesla Model S long range, which will do about 600km in an ideal situation. She'd still have to charge when she gets there for the return journey. The next best car with range is the Tesla Model 3 long range, which can do about 500km in ideal conditions, but that's not enough of a buffer for cold weather or rain. No other manufacturer has a car that gets anywhere close to the range you need. The Hyundai wont do 400km on the highway (it's EPA or WLTP range is measured in mixed conditions and includes around town driving with regen, highway range at highway speed will be less).It also doesn't have fast charging (100kw+) so it's pretty useless for road trips.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/09/2019 - 14:53
          -1

          "No one is going to buy an EV that can only take them to work and back."

          And then I stopped reading, are you kidding me? Many couples will have 2 cars, one electric commuter to do stuff around town, 20km trip to work and 5km to the shops and back. Then a second petrol car that you can use however you like.

          • [Deactivated] on 23/09/2019 - 14:59
            -1

            @[Deactivated]: No, I’m not kidding you. People will only buy EVs that can replace conventional ICE cars. Expensive ones can right now, and they sell well. No one actually buys EV commuter cars in any numbers. Look at the BMW i3 vs Tesla Model 3 as an example. The i3 is limited to around town usage and almost no one buys them. The Model 3 is a true ICE car replacement and they sell every single one they can make.

            • [Deactivated] on 23/09/2019 - 16:07
              -1

              @[Deactivated]: Tesla has sold 720,000 units total

              Nissan leaf has sold 400,000

              BMW i3 has sold 150,000

              You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

              • [Deactivated] on 23/09/2019 - 16:12
                -1

                @[Deactivated]: Err you just proved my point. The vast majority of those Tesla sales are Model 3. They are putting out about 400k a year of them now.

                • [Deactivated] on 23/09/2019 - 16:16

                  @[Deactivated]: I proved your point that nobody buys a kind of EV that currently accounts for about half the market?

                  • [Deactivated] on 23/09/2019 - 17:05
                    -1

                    @[Deactivated]: Have a look at the sales of the current Nissan Leaf. The original Nissan Leaf was the first cheap EV to market and has been on sale for a decade. It’s racked up the sales in spite of the car being bad and having terrible degradation. The sales leader in the world (by a huge margin) of EVs is currently the Model 3 and with good reason. It’s because anyone with half a brain doesn’t want an EV that only just gets you to work and back.

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