Warning - Westpac Credit Card (Black) Security disgrace

tunzafun001 on 12/09/2019 - 13:18

Hi all, Just wanted to warn people about the Westpac Black card.

In NYC we used a Priority Pass lounge credit which gave us $27US to spend on food/ bar. I got a receipt at the end stating we had $8 balance left (a disgrace, but we were boarding), and $0 owing. A month later, Priority Pass have charged my Westpac Black $40. I disputed it, and submitted the $0 receipt as evidence. Priority Pass lounge disputed it back providing a fake invoice for the amount with a fake signature (a friggin straight line in the signature box). Westpac have accepted their 'evidence' and told me they cant do anything else, and I would need to dispute this through a civil caught! This line clearly doesn't match the signature on the back of my card, simple as that, but they said the charge stands. Asked for a superior, they said no need, there is no further way forward.

I said you might as well put $10k on my card for yourself and guess whatever you think my signature looks like, as that seems to be all you need for it to be a legit transaction…and it will be Westpac I will be taking to the civil caught for failing to follow the security protocols on a credit card (you can follow up the fraudulent seller, that's Westpac's problem).

Be warned people, keep all your evidence. I know they will buckle on this one as they don't have a leg to stand on.

P.S. They also claimed a response to the disputes team wasn't lodged (however, I have the email read receipt from Westac at 1:06pm on the day of the dispute). Again, a disgrace. Man up Westpac. It's $40, you stuffed up, own it. Trying to fob me off and hoping I would just give up…pathetic.

Any legal people want to 'tee off' on this one? For all the hours/ emotional damage customers need to sustain on following up on this rubbish. Obviously keep all Priority Pass receipts as well. This is the second time I have had this, but the fake invoice was a first….

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Comments

  • Quantumcat on 12/09/2019 - 13:27
    +10

    Court*

    But anyway yeah that sounds pretty shocking

    • tunzafun001 on 12/09/2019 - 15:47
      +4

      haha, whoops…that's a new one for me…good 'catch' on that one.

  • wiipantz on 12/09/2019 - 13:31
    +2

    Not legal advice just general advice. Vote with your wallet and walk, Westie-Pac is a travesty at best anyways. G'luc
    * Also ^ Court

  • profar on 12/09/2019 - 13:31
    +2

    Any legal people want to 'tee off' on this one? Extremely high profile they be all lining up to recoup what $40 lol .

    Cope any time chasing this is a waste of time .

    • tunzafun001 on 12/09/2019 - 15:56
      +3

      Yep, I agree @wiipantz and @profar. I told Westpac we are done, and closed all my accounts.

      As for the legal aspect, for me it's only $40, for Westpac accepting invoices that have falsified signatures, then being called on it, then still accepting them…I think Fair Trading or something along that line would give them a nice little fine.

      Basically they have offered a 'secure' product, then failed to meet their obligation to enforce that security.

  • chumlee on 12/09/2019 - 13:32
    +1

    Why ask for a superior? Just tell them you are superior or bluff that you are superior

  • HighAndDry on 12/09/2019 - 13:52
    +1

    Any legal people want to 'tee off' on this one?

    Social media is your friend.

    • tunzafun001 on 12/09/2019 - 16:08
      +1

      Started in my favourite social site ;)

      • HighAndDry on 12/09/2019 - 16:20
        +2

        Yeah harass their twitter and FB accounts. I find big companies care about public image more than…. a lot of other things.

    • tunzafun001 on 12/09/2019 - 16:20

      Just posted it on Westpac's FB page (I'm sure it will get edited out) . Where else do you think it needs to go?

      • Quantumcat on 12/09/2019 - 18:55

        Twitter

      • MrBear on 13/09/2019 - 09:18

        You are meant to put in on the Bikies facebook page and then A Current Affair's MySpace page.

  • playswithfire on 12/09/2019 - 13:53
    +16

    I think you could complain to the financial services ombudsman about this.

  • tsunamisurfer on 12/09/2019 - 13:53
    +4

    Why has Westpac stuffed up?

    They are the middle man.

    The NYC lounge are the ones that have provided a fake invoice as evidence.

    Their only 'fault' in this case is not siding with you.

    • tunzafun001 on 12/09/2019 - 15:51
      +10

      The signature provided by the Lounge doesn't match my card in any way. Therefore, I feel Westpac should automatically discredit the invoice. Ie. putting the responsibility on the lounge to check the signature. The fact that Westpac are happy to accept a signature that in no way matches my card is a disgrace. Why even bother having a signature on the card?

    • outlander on 13/09/2019 - 00:06
      +2

      Do people even read posts anymore? Or do they just make up nonsense in their heads, and reply to that (I'm leaning towards the second one)

  • kipps on 12/09/2019 - 13:56
    +14

    Take it to the financial ombudsman service to dispute the charge.

    • tunzafun001 on 12/09/2019 - 16:19
      +1

      Yes, I will so others don't go through this rubbish. I swear this stuff wasn't happening 15 years ago. T

  • weezlebub on 12/09/2019 - 13:58
    +7

    as previously stated, escalate with Westpac, then go through ombudsman …

    Ombudsman charges them for every level of escalation, so they'll probably credit your account to avoid the hassle

  • redforever on 12/09/2019 - 14:42
    +1

    do you have the priority pass app? it shows your visit history. did they add a guest?

    • tunzafun001 on 12/09/2019 - 16:07
      +1

      The invoice they provided states they added a guest. BUT, this wasn't a lounge per se, it was a bar with credit set up.

      Side note, we both have Priority Pass memberships. But only had 10 mins, so only used 1 PP entry credit.

      When we arrived I explicitly told the lady we are only using 1 credit, no guest. She said she understood, but I don't trust anyone in the lounge industry, and glad I didn't. I said at the end to provide me a receipt for evidence of only 1 entry credit being used and there will be no guest entry charged, which she did. Even kept a tab to tell me when the credit was up. I submitted this receipt with a $0 charge to Westpac, they didn't care.

      I'm guessing the lounge tried to pull a "swifty", and now knowing how Westpac work, why wouldn't you?? If anyone is processing a Westpac credit card charge anytime soon, add an extra $10k for yourself and sign it with a straight line (as this is acceptable).

      Obviously I'm being facetious, but where I stand right now, this is what Westpac have told me.

  • Seraphin7 on 12/09/2019 - 16:33
    +7

    Lodge the matter with AFCA (Australian Financial Complaints Authority). Assuming everything you have written is what happened, this is your most appropriate next step.

    • tunzafun001 on 12/09/2019 - 23:25
      +2

      Okee dokes. To think they want all this rubbish over a $40 clear as day fraudulent charge. They have sent me the document with the signature used, so I have clear evidence that it wasn't me signing anything and they are accepting it (and the signature is a straight horizontal line, it's not even a signature).

  • Tee Rex Arms on 12/09/2019 - 19:49
    -5

    You sound like a barrel of laughs at parties

    • tunzafun001 on 12/09/2019 - 23:30
      +6

      Don't get all that giggly when being shafted by a Big 4!

      But if you give me your card number I'll throw a cracking party and everyone at OzBargain is invited. I'll even sign it with 'chuckles'.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/09/2019 - 23:30
    -5

    Take it easy; best is to forgive!

    After all, Westpac fault is only 40 bucks but anything else happening along would be own faults.

    • tunzafun001 on 12/09/2019 - 23:35
      +3

      Out of interest, what is your acceptable dollar limit for fraud? The principle of treating customers this way is what has annoyed me the most. They can see it's blatant fraud, but want the customer deal with the problem on a product they are reaping $millions from.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/09/2019 - 23:41

        Even a cent is fraud but I doubt it is your responsibility to take on Westpac. My point was to take easy on yourself and to put trust in other aspects of life. In these situations (manageable losses), usually the best is to forgive.

        Any action in court, etc comes at a hefty price (time loss, inconvenience, monetary), and court outcome including damage etc. is uncertain and if awarded is usually much less than the wasted amount.

        • tunzafun001 on 13/09/2019 - 00:00
          +5

          Fair enough, I see what you are saying. I guess I'm a bit old school in 'united we concur, divided we fall'. If no one says anything, then we will all eventually get shafted. But I appreciate the sentiment to not take on the world, and take a step back and breathe. Thanks my friend for your kindness : )

  • pascher on 13/09/2019 - 09:52
    +5

    Lodge a complain with the FIO.

    You have merit to your case and seem to have documented things well.

    The problem with these big banks is they do not follow their own protocol and create problems for themselves.

    Just as an FYI and information I know from complaining about every little mistreatment, including signing of NDA and other out of court settlements.

    It costs the bank over 1000 dollars to settle these matters through the FIO. in saying that they also receive a negative score on the report card and have other associated costs and damages they have to counter.

    So as a rule I only ever settle now for 500 dollars at a minimum. Usually they are able to offer this back to me in chargeback, points, fee reversals or an altered interest rate for a fixed period so there is minimal commercial loss.

    Don’t get angry and upset, just know how to play the game better.

    Same goes with the ATO.

    been audited 3/5 years in a row now. Pain in the ass for being aggressive and fighting for what the legislation says but after explaining and complaining directly and quickly escalating the situation akin to being sexually assisted in a public forum, the people who are most likely handed your case will fob it off as being in the too hard basket and capitulate to your wants.

    Why ask for the 40 dollars they wrongfully took when you can have 540.

    Your time is valuable.

    Ps. Can’t get money back from the ATO like this though, compensation is too hard as the onus of proof and evidentiary requirement is on the taxpayer. But it has made me a lot wiser and more financially aggressive now though. Claim the maximum.

    • tunzafun001 on 13/09/2019 - 10:13
      +1

      Thanks Pascher, I think you have captured my mindset on this pretty well. I don't want a million dollars from them. I just want them to stop and consider the customers position. I would expect maybe an annual fee waiver, an apology and perhaps a public statement on their FB page to clarify their position on incorrect signatures and fraudulent transactions (and who is responsible for them).

      As for the ATO, I might send you a PM. I got a letter last year from the ATO saying my return was high for my profession and was given an 'opportunity' to amend it. I didn't change anything other than the profession type (but it was basically the same thing, and I'm not really 100% in either of their preset profession options). Since I have been placed in a country appointment and my work requires vast travel in proportion to my % of private use (ie PD is 800km round trip, work base is a 600m walk). Therefore, I have claimed 88% of all my vehicle costs and depreciation, which I think is the 'red flag'. I have all the logs etc to back it up, and used the online calculator tools. But I can still see them trying to challenge the log etc? (I think this is the kind of stuff you are referring to)? There are a few other claims (mostly around expected life of depreciating assets) that I have tried to call the ATO about and either cant get through, or was told 'whatever you think it is'. So basically would like to know your approach to a audit, what you needed to provide etc). Just want to be preferred if they come knocking.

      Cheers for the info.

  • redforever on 14/09/2019 - 01:52

    actually I just realised something, you don't show your credit card when using priority pass.

    Rather you use your priority pass membership card. As a requirement, you would have linked your membership to your Westpac credit card, agreeing them to charge your credit card for extra visits.

    While the physical priority pass card has a signature box, the digital cards don't and I think lounges just check your boarding pass to confirm a name match but not the signature. You do sign a receipt from the lounge where you confirm your visit and confirm any guest to be charged to your account.

    Thinking back, there is really nothing westpac can do if you sign a receipt confirming 2 visits. If you only sign a lounge receipt confirming a single visit and are sure you didn't sign the one showing 2 visits, you need to take it up with priority pass.

    Westpac simply pays for your priority pass membership and 2 visits but your contract is with priority pass ultimately.

    • tunzafun001 on 14/09/2019 - 11:00
      +1

      I didn't sign anything! Just gave them my PP number, and then received a receipt at the end that said $0 payable (which I provided Westpac). They then later (after I disputed the charge) sent Westpac a falsefied signed invoice.

      As you pointed out, extra charges are linked to my Westpac card. So Westpac should say to the lounge, the signature you have provided does not match the customers card, and reversed it. Again, putting the responsibility back on the lounge to check this in the first place. If the lounge doesn't know where/ how they are getting paid, then that is their own stupidity. Westpac issue the card with "security" and "fraud protection", I expect to have it.

      • redforever on 14/09/2019 - 11:28
        -2

        Again, lounges or priority pass doesn't haveaccess to your credit card signature nor required to compare your signature. you can have different signatures on your priority pass card and your credit card.

        Your cc setup with priority pass is similar to making an online purchase or online subscription where signature check is not required.

        You need to raise your dispute with priority pass.

  • Dont Care on 14/09/2019 - 09:49
    -1

    it's 40 dollars. you need to leave it and move on. go to another bank.

    • tunzafun001 on 14/09/2019 - 11:07
      +1

      What is your acceptable value for fraud? Should we all let (say $50 each) through to fraudsters? Westpac earns income from every transaction. They are a big 4 bank. I think they can tidy up there act and not treat customers like idiots.

      • Dont Care on 14/09/2019 - 12:25

        i can handle 40 dollars. what price do you play for the time and hassle?

        • tunzafun001 on 14/09/2019 - 19:56

          User name checks out… giving banks 1 cent would erk me. It's all good, Westpac will pay, I'm very confident about that.

      • Dont Care on 14/09/2019 - 12:33

        Actually 27 USD is about 40 australian dollars. In any case you're out of pocket 10 bucks. leave it and move on man.

        • timetoquit on 17/09/2019 - 03:22

          that is what I ended up doing. Moving on!

          PP charged me for 1 guest recently, even though I was allowed 2 guests total whilst in Santiago. Receipt read 2 guests redeemed or something. I didn't think much of it and couldn't be bothered searching for it when I got back, muttered something and moved on.

          • tunzafun001 on 24/09/2019 - 15:49
            +1

            @timetoquit: Well there you go. That's obviously their plan. If everyone accepts it, why wouldn't you overcharge everyone. Especially if the bank backs you up.

            • JacobHarvey on 25/09/2019 - 14:58

              @tunzafun001: I appreciate your effort in pushing back against these thieves. It is obviously the principle that matters more than the financial loss. If everyone just gave up they'd have no incentive to even attempt to be honest.

              I've got the same Westpac Black Altitude Qantas card bundle and I'm disgusted to hear that they'd treat their customer so badly on their top of the line 'premium' credit card product. Since it has a massive annual fee compared to other cards you'd expect decent service. I will be cancelling my cards shortly

              • tunzafun001 on 25/09/2019 - 16:13
                +1

                @JacobHarvey: Yeah, definitely in principle. But it seems to be everywhere lately. We are all too busy to care if we are getting shafted by a bank, insurance, super etc.
                FYI, the best customer service I got from a card provider was NAB and maybe Amex.

                • JacobHarvey on 25/09/2019 - 16:18

                  @tunzafun001: Yep my experiences are the same, NAB and Amex have been far better in terms of card service. NAB did screw up transferring monthly Qantas points at one stage last year but they ended up giving me an extra 6000 points in the end so that was decent of them

  • Eeples on 14/09/2019 - 20:43

    Check online how many visits you have used up on your priority pass.
    It may also show if this 'visit' included an additional guest. (I don't know if it shows this online).

    Your OP says 'we' and 'us' not 'I'. It well might be the case that you were charged for a guest.

    • tunzafun001 on 19/09/2019 - 12:24

      I was charged for a guest. But as per above, it was a bar / credit type 'lounge'. I checked and rechecked with the waitress that we are only using one PP entry credit. 100% confirmed there will be no guest charge. She gave me a receipt to confirm there was no guest charge. I wrote her name on the receipt as I said I would follow up if things go wrong….they did.

      Then PP sent Westpac a fraudulent document with a fake signature for a guest. I never authorised it, I'm not paying it.

      I have made contact with Westpac via FB page. Will let you know what they come up with.

  • tunzafun001 on 24/09/2019 - 15:51

    Update.

    After I put this up on their FB page, I was contacted by a Westpac rep, who diverted me to another person, who sent me this email:

    "Please be advised your request has been actioned with complaint now closed as resolved."

    Word for word….

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