Chiropractor Caused Severe Back Pain

100000000A0000000001 on 23/08/2019 - 07:04
Last edited 25/08/2019 - 04:31

Morning to All!

Firstly,i Couldn't sleep whole week properly and whole night tonight due to back pain and my whole week was nightmare

A month and a half ago i went to my local GP for some tests and a tiny pain(from inside the hip) which started after gaining 30 extra kgs(core of the problem).My GP adviced me to take a trip to Chiropractor(saying he/she was 'Real good') rather than paying 200+ bucks to see the interior drama thru MRI.(Big mistake)

After long resist of standing against this decision(approx 1+ month.A week ago i decided to give it a go…(BIGGEST mistake) and took and appo with the Chiro.

When i went there they gave a paperwork and at the back of it similar to saying "If we completely destroy your spine,leave you paralyzed or nerve damage etc etc(tones of other stuff),we are not responsible and here is your consent" and it was sort of shocking. I raised my concerns and i DID NOT sign the paper.So i did NOT consent to procedure whatsoever.

The receptionist at the place said "Ok" and when the Chiro called me in, i went and briefly after approx 3minutes talk which He didn't ask anything( if i have conditions anywhere or anything serious ) except if i had any broken bones and let me sit to table and poked back of my spine mumbling some of the spinal lumbers(L1-2-3-4-5 those thingies) and started the procedure straight on!!

I was not happy but at that moment i felt no pain.

Until (later i learned when i asked why the pain) he applied "Dry needling" to my back and did the leg crunchy painful movement.

Whole process took maybe 10minutes(with some hot towel&massage) and i had to pay money(as they stated).

At this stage,i haven't even given an explanation or a detailed paper on what procedure is done!

Less than 2hours,
I started having nerve pain,here,there and almost all the places he tweaked around.
The whole weekend was nightmare.My back started having PAIN constantly in different places!! Having pain in the areas i NEVER had any pain in my life.Nerve pain as well as BURNING sense of pain where he did the needle "treatment".i searched on Dry needle Side effects and didn't find good stuff.

1 week on, i went to see another GP who said it was complete pseudoscience and he stated it was too early for MRI scans for any damage to show(True or not?).

Damage report:

(NONE of these existed before except once a year tinitiny inside right hip when i sit for too long btw)

1-I have full motion of my spine but TONES of randomised nerve pain.Especially inside the hips.Sciatica kind of pain in BOTH.Very painful. Sometimes it pulses down to my leg.

2-Tail section is also in some form of pain

3-Under my Right Rib i got pain coming and going with motion.Which is painful and stressful.

4-Had a massive headache at the right side of my head for a few times.Which NEVER happened to me,Ever in my life.

5-Couldnt do almost any of the sports during whole week and feeling tired/weird.

6-Walking like my spine is going to somewhere rather then the place i want it to go(Very weird and hard to explain sense but NOT a good feeling at all!)

Questions for Experts:

0-Should i go to MRI asap today?Do fresh damages show up on MRI or my GP does not want to take it seriously?(i have pain but full motion,so he said yea yea yea,nah you are OK)

1-Any risk of permanent damages?

2-Burning sensation at the dry needling area,infection,inflammation?Is there a nerve damage,can it be visible in MRI from this Dry needling?(GP had no idea what it is)

3-Your Family/Friends experiences about this kind of "back wreckjustment"?Did they have the similar experiences? Did they get better or had pain etc?

4-How are these "Clinics" which are running on Complete Nutscience are legal? Some are doing almost live human experienced and no regulations??? IF i wanted to build&manufacture a ladder i need to go thru a wall high(literally) of AS standart and paperwork and these clinics can do inject solutions into human spine??

5-Should i do a legal stand or sit up or chin up? Will raise complaints here and there but i don't think they'll take it even seriously.

From what i experienced,looked up and learned this practice is complete Pseudoscience which does NOT have solid scientific base or proof.

Another VERY interesting thing is all these "Clinics" have COMPLETE 5 FULL star reviews on FB,Google etc. ZERO 1 star reviews…
Which was really interesting to see…

Years ago,i went with one of my friends to one of these chiros and he was asking my mate to bring him Xrays almost every week!!!!(crazy).He went for months and at the end,ended up in the specialist whom told to his face(i was with him as a company both times) that it was NOT a fix to get with Chiro as it was an unknown Autoimmune disease which attacked his joints and he had all the Rad from tonnes of Xrays and paid solid gold amount for nothing to all..

MS Paint will be supplied upon request with PG+18 access grant with OzBargainPremiumGold.

I'll be behind the screen reading answers but may delay answering them due to pain&sleepless night.
And i'll add updates as well if anyone wants?
Poll?
Donuts?

** TL;DR : ** How can we fight with the drought and help our farmers?

Update-1:

Thanks everyone for the contributions. I'll keep updating. I did a map,NO WHERE NEAR ACCURATE thou. Hard to tell exact pinpoint in this image due to not knowing how to count spine sections but marked them as much as i can.

https://imgur.com/9cFdOPO

A : The MOST painfull and pulsing pain section at the moment. Time to time Goes down to leg.
B : Where the Dry needling thingy happened. Although the pain is
lessened i feel pressure and pinching kind of feeling when laying flat

C: When laying Sideway or when doing movements(such as streching the left leg while sitting) combined with D it randomly has a nervy feeling(like dislocation) (Very hard to describe) but the pain is lessened and happenes very rarely.

D: Had Pain but improved.

E: Still Mild pain around this whole area overal.

I used whole V……n and after few hours i used a cream called D—p-H—t (I have hidden names of the products but they are from Woolies&Pharma non prescribed) and seemed to help a lot and improved.

Still thinking about MRI thou as B and A is no where near. B especially keeping me awake and feeling squashed(or under pressure) even when i lay flat…

Currently it seems to get better(ish) but nowhere near where i was before.

I read all the comments but may delay on answering and will keep on updating. Thanks to everyone of you.

Health & Beauty

Comments

            • solidweiner on 24/08/2019 - 16:14
              +3

              @blergmonkeys: I agree with some of your points, but not all. There are circumstances where as you say an x-ray is a good initial investigation. However, if somebody did have signs of spinal stenosis for example or other neurological findings - I'd skip the x-ray, avoid the radiation, and head straight to an MRI unless contraindicated. I agree with spacemansam above. Lower back x-rays can be an initial good diagnostic test, but not in the same way chest x-rays are.

              http://www.imagingpathways.health.wa.gov.au/index.php/imagin…

              • blergmonkeys on 24/08/2019 - 16:25
                +1

                @solidweiner: Perhaps but mri is not actually much better than ct except the radiation (which is not a major concern in the majority of adults as a one off). With the cost and lack of rebate for gp referred mri’s for backs, I have found ct’s to be more than reasonably diagnostic for about 90% of back pain presentations. Mind you, if I had op come through my rooms, barring any overt clinical signs or history indicating chronic issues, I wouldn’t be going for imaging but rather analgesia, physio, rest and exercise/yoga. And of course follow up for resolution (because it probably will get better in 1-2 months).

                • solidweiner on 24/08/2019 - 16:35
                  +3

                  @blergmonkeys: I agree with you. A patient who presents similarly to the way OP does rarely would be indicated for imaging except in certain circumstances. Quality physical therapy is sufficient in most cases.

                  Good discussion, buddy. I'm glad we kept it civil 👍

                • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 04:56

                  @blergmonkeys:

                  if I had op come through my rooms, barring any overt clinical signs or history indicating chronic issues, I wouldn’t be going for imaging but rather analgesia, physio, rest and exercise/yoga. And of course follow up for resolution (because it probably will get better in 1-2 months). |

                  Beautiful words&feedback way better than pushed pills INHO. Thanks for the support.

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 23/08/2019 - 17:16

      I think i forget to mention that i had ZERO pain before the Chiro(Except tinitiny once a year pain after i gained extra kgs+long chair/sitting time as i explained up above) . There was NOTHING wrong about my spine as far as i could tell. There was NO pain. Just a week ago before the processes , I was capable of running,lifting stuff and again ABSOLUTE ZERO pain and now i'm having constant pain with motion, while sitting etc.

    • pharm86 on 26/08/2019 - 07:54

      I would certainly hope OP's nerves aren't pressing on lumber, that would be very painful

  • spacemansam on 23/08/2019 - 08:53
    +17

    Physio here with a postgrad in Musculoskeletal Physio -

    A few things:
    - Informed consent: all practitioners need to inform you about any procedure/technique they are going to perform on you including any risks if there are any. Failure to do so is a reportable offence to the regulating body AHPRA
    - Pre-screening: clinicians need to ask about past medical history and should also do other objective tests such neurological testing (if there were any neurological signs) to ensure that their treatment is safe and likely to be effective
    - Ensure that the GP you saw afterwards has written down ALL the side effects you experienced after your visit to the chiro
    - An MRI may or may not be able to see any new damage, but at the same time cannot be proof that the chiro did any damage to you as you don't have any 'before' images as a comparison. The main proof is actually all the symptoms you report because imaging does not always correlate with symptoms

    Next steps:
    - contact AHPRA if you are concerned
    - see GP again if you haven't been specific enough with your details, discuss potential for painkillers and if they think it's appropriate
    - book in with a Musculoskeletal Physio (with a postgrad Masters - some physios will claim they are 'musculoskeletal physios' without having done any further study) for a thorough examination, they will be able to tell you whether you need onward referral to a specialist (not usually required this early on)

    Hope that gives you a bit of a starting point

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 23/08/2019 - 17:42

      -Good to know about Informed Consent. In this case i'll raise it with AHPRA. IS there any deadline after the injury?
      -None asked. None requested.
      Here is how it is happened;
      Me: M
      Receptionist:R
      Chrio:C

      (I read the paper about informed Consent(i think it is) and i stated i'm not feeling comfortable and i'll not sign it.It was also a rushed process by receptionist saying Just sign here and i said I got to read it all(doh..) and the more i read the more i said Nope,Nope,Nope )
      M: I'm not feeling comfortable about this and won't sing it.
      R: Ok,let me ask him/her

      In the meantime i don't know if she did or not.I went in.

      C: What can i do for you?
      M: I got once a year tinitiny pain here
      C: OK, let me check it, sit here
      M: Here?
      C: A little more back. Raise your arms. Put behind your head.
      C: L2L3L134123 (Numbers of the spine he mumbled) and poked with fingers
      Instant Starts the procedure

      He did arm-raised back thingy
      Than(From my memory) turned over and did the leg pushing thing(which did hurt as well)

      When he did the DRY NEEDLING it was really painful and i stated it is painful but process continued.. During the whole processes i was giving feedback about the pain and saying it is PAINFUL and he kept the process on and after the processes had some warm-towels on my back. Between 10-20mins maximum. Someone up in the thread stated it took 1 hour or so, no where near it was 1 hr.

      I was in the car,30mins later i started having nervy-painful pulses going all down to my leg and 1 to 3hrs time different pains here and there started. The next day i had tones of back pain. Pulsing Headache to right side of my head is gone now. That's one good thing at least.

      I'll go to the Second GP and ask him to write down all. Do you think i should go and get the MRI's?Very costly it is,approx 500(according to my GP). I have BEFORE MRI images from 2015 of my spine with ZERO problems if that helps?

      2nd GP gave me lift-weight prescribed painkillers.

      Can you describe Musculoskeletal Physio in detail?(Differences,science based evidence,practice types,how the processes is done etc.), and what is the difference between normal Physio-thingy?

      Thanks for the help.

      • barozgain on 23/08/2019 - 17:44
        +1

        won't sing it

        funny typo

      • spacemansam on 23/08/2019 - 18:33

        A musculoskeletal physio is someone who had completed a post-graduate Masters on top of their undergraduate degree. This involves being supervised by other highly experienced Musculoskeletal Physios often in the top hospitals. It also involves a large component of being up to date with the current research. A general physio has only done the undergraduate component. Its similar to seeing a GP (who I know these days is technically a specialist) vs a Neurologist for a nerve problem. Yes the GP can give you painkillers and general advice, but the neurologist will be a lot more thorough and offer to a variety of treatment options.

        Most general physios will be able to treat any musculoskeletal condition, however given that you've got a slightly more complex situation brought on by another clinician, I'd recommend seeing a Musculoskeletal Physio.

        As for whether you need an MRI, I can't say for sure as I haven't assessed you. But as a general rule of thumb, we typically encourage people to get an MRI if they have non-improving severe pain , neurological symptoms or worsening symptoms. Speak to your physio and they'll let you know, I've been a physio for nearly a decade and can honestly say I've only encouraged a small number of people to get an MRI.

        • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 05:00

          so musculoskeletal physio > physio ? I'll aim for MRI as well. I have updated the OP as well and included a map of where my pains are.

    • MessyG on 23/08/2019 - 20:43
      +5

      +10000 to the above.

      I'm concerned about general practitioners referring to a chiro in the first instance, why on earth not a physiotherapist? I've had to pick up the pieces more than once where chiros have performed neck manipulation and it's resulted in a VA dissection and subsequent stroke. I'm biased and I'm not a fan.

      It's hard to know what the prognosis of this pain is without examining you but it will very likely become chronic if you don't do anything about it and get stuck in a cycle of grief regarding the chiro. Get back to the GP (maybe a new one) and get yourself to a good physiotherapist as above.

      As for the back pain - most back pain just gets better with time and education on how to protect your back (i.e with a physiotherapist). But go back to your doctor and get to a physio sooner rather than later. I would avoid opioid based tablets, simple panadol is fine for this.

      See if you can get improvement with physio and if not improving after proper treatment or getting worse, then you could consider MRI.

      • solidweiner on 24/08/2019 - 13:10

        Unfortunately there is a population of GPs who do advise therapy with little or no evidence. Ironically though, patients pay more to see them then correlate the more expensive service with the perception of higher quality care.

        • MessyG on 24/08/2019 - 17:57

          Can't disagree, they do exist. But there are plenty of good evidence-based ones out there, they just take a bit of searching around.

      • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 05:15

        I'm concerned about general practitioners referring to a chiro in the first instance, why on earth not a physiotherapist? I've had to pick up the pieces more than once where chiros have performed neck manipulation and it's resulted in a VA dissection and subsequent stroke. I'm biased and I'm not a fan. |

        Researched the terms and worse than a horror movie,ouch…I guess i was very lucky. My Headache is gone now it was on the right-side with very strong and sharp hit(happened twice,short bursts after the alignment(!) ). The worst part is first GP never even mentioned Physio(unlike everyone here suggested),not even ONCE! Very upsetting.

        I have updated the OP with a pain map and now having some creams(Sorry,i don't know if it is ethical to name them here?) from Woolies and Pharmcy. One of them for pain the other one for heat. Just like Tshow said in one of his posts here it is very hard to find good of everything these days and i completely agree with you.

        I'd never get anywhere near any of the addictive painkillers.Been reading about them on the news(Vice,ABC etc) and done my homework long ago. In fact, i rarely used any type of painkillers in my life so i when i take even the lowest type pain killers, they completely do work beyond scale.

        i'm just hoping it will. Many awesome helpful tribesmen&tribeswomen in the Ozbargain tribe helped and supported a lot! Free donuts to everyone except me as i got to work on weight-loss :) (Maybe a donut later lol)

  • holdenmg on 23/08/2019 - 09:20

    If you think you have been assaulted, maybe see a Lawyer…

  • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2019 - 09:36
    +25

    A month and a half ago i went to my local GP for some tests and a tiny pain(from inside the hip) which started after gaining 30 extra kgs(core of the problem). My GP adviced me to take a trip to Chiropractor.

    Your GP is an idiot. Here are the reasons why.
    1. He sent you to a chiropractor.
    2. He sent you to a chiropractor to lose weight.

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 23/08/2019 - 17:50

      Couldn't agree more.The first GP was with that suggestion, yes. The sad drama is if you place 10 inputs,like i stated gaining extra 30kgs and pain starting and tinitiny pain the doctors will not completely place the puzzle pieces together and will almost rush thru.

      3- I was sceptical and had thoughts(and experiences) that it was complete utter pseudoscience and i trusted him/her as he/she was a GP not a witch doctor(no offence to With Doctor supporters).

      Remember the old saying about Get minimum 3 quotes ? That's what i should have done and go to 2nd GP.
      Experience gained, Pain earned…

      • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2019 - 18:35
        +2

        I always say, to find a good doctor, ask a pharmacist. They're privy to a lot of dirty laundry and know which doctor knows their shit.

        When you find that good doctor, you hope they don't drop dead, move, or retire, and you pray to whatever is scared you do not accidentally offend them. Same goes to a good anything.

        Shitty work always ends up costing more.

        • 100000000A0000000001 on 23/08/2019 - 18:41
          +1

          When you find that good doctor, you hope they don't drop dead, move, or retire, and you pray to whatever is scared you do not accidentally offend them. Same goes to a good anything.Shitty work always ends up costing more.
          Tshow - 2019

          This needs to be one of those motivational posters.

          • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2019 - 18:43
            +3

            @100000000A0000000001: Poor man pays twice.

            It's already a saying and I've learnt this well after being stung for a few hundred thousand dollars over several occasions.

            I've seen people being stung their entire lives.

            Ps. It doesn't just apply to money. It applies to time and effort too. I'm too busy to do shitty work.

  • Tee Rex Arms on 23/08/2019 - 09:38
    -2

    This post is pure trash

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 23/08/2019 - 10:16
    +2

    To assist OP with his TLDR - I present a recreation of the event timeline:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1rbQqGIZgw

    My only comment:

    i went to see another GP who said it was complete pseudoscience

    Keep seeing that GP. Don't go back to the original GP.

    Can't believe a GP would recommend quackery.

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 23/08/2019 - 17:55
      +1

      Hahaha You made my day with that link. Thanks a lot. Mine pretty much went like that.

      That GP was actually good,kind and helpful in some of my earlier visits but i think i'll put a mark next to her/his name and will triple think advices if i have to visit again..

      I'm happy that i'm at least able to walk.

  • HighAndDry on 23/08/2019 - 10:37
    +3

    So i did NOT consent to procedure whatsoever.

    You read the risks, you knew what they were going to do, you walked in, and you laid down on the table.

    You consented - just the fact of refusing to sign doesn't change it.

    Though the advice stays the same: Go to a doctor - just not the original GP who sent you to a chiro…

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 23/08/2019 - 18:02

      I see your point but there is a huge difference.I explained to spacemansam here how the procedure went on. I had ZERO idea and DID NOT know what they were going to do + i have NOT been informed about any of the processes(Even DRY NEEDLING thingy) and i did NOT lay down on the table first whatsoever. I also stated Receptionist that I DO NOT CONSENT to it. I though Quackropractor will check if there is anything wrong. Someone can come close to you and let me check it and starts doing a very fast procedure instantly does NOT mean you are consenting it.
      When You are in a hospital the Dr does not come and say let me check it and start twisting your arms-legs with a very quick brute-force right?

  • serpserpserp on 23/08/2019 - 11:49

    How old are you OP?

  • weezlebub on 23/08/2019 - 11:58
    -6

    Chiro is a bone cruncher
    Physio will generally ask where it hurts and put on some mild electronic pulsating thinggy's

    Sportsmed seem to get really good results (but pretty sure they're muscularskeletal folks like @spacemansam

    I quite enjoy my chinese massueses at shopping centres, or the physio training places (they may not be as qualified, but they're under supervision and get really deep into the muscles)

  • Godric on 23/08/2019 - 12:08

    How do I pronounce your Username?

    • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2019 - 13:31

      I believe it is some form of ancient African where the A is silent.

      Hope that helps.

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 23/08/2019 - 18:03

      Just 100000000A0000000001 please.
      1…A…1 (fill in the gaps)

  • HardlyCharly on 23/08/2019 - 12:12
    +2

    Would have been better off getting a massage than going to a chiro. I can't fully blame you though, they're still prevalent and it still isn't well known that they're useless, not based on real science, and can cause you damage. Your bloody doctor should have known that though!

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 23/08/2019 - 18:05

      Totally Agreed. I'm hoping that the damage will disappear and won't last for long.

  • barozgain on 23/08/2019 - 14:01
    +7

    "There is no such thing as alternative medicine There’s only medicine that works and medicine that does not"

    All that naturopathy, chiro, chinese medicine etc only works by placebo effect.

    That's why medical research showed that patients with sham knee surgeries can have same exact outcome as legit surgeries only due to placebo effect.

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 23/08/2019 - 18:14

      There was a documentary about Acupuncture i watched years ago and they actually proved that it made changes in the brain and altered stuff but many people also stated the side effects of it as well(irreversible side effects which are not good). It is also semi-dangerous procedure(nerve system may get damage etc).
      I'd put Stem Cell treatment & PRP done by Specialists to different side dish as big pharma does not want them to flow into mains line.
      Here is Mel Gibson's Experience about it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtL1fEEtLaA

    • eldudebrothers on 23/08/2019 - 21:01
      +1

      This is not true. There are a lot of alternative therapies that work which have evidence. Additionally, it is extremely difficult to get the funding for RCT's for medications that can't be patented. However in saying this, a significant number of alternative medicine is a scam.

      • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 05:19

        Acupuncture damage you mean? My opinion is IF they pass Placebo test and make wonders for everyone and scientifically proven with multiple sources why not.

  • Oofy Doofy on 23/08/2019 - 14:10

    Interesting yet unfortunate situation.

    Make sure your own personal insurances are in check, see if you think in time you'll need to make a claim on that. Same thing applies to the insurance of the chiropractor. Cross all your T's and dot all your I's. Document everything, write notes, voice memos, get your thoughts together before you have an assessment made by a personal doctor or insurer doctor.

  • Bunnyburger on 23/08/2019 - 14:21
    +5

    Now you know why they call them chiroquacktors. It's why reputable universities don't teach the subject, also why the military doesn't use them for rehabilitation.

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 23/08/2019 - 18:17
      +1

      chiroquacktors indeed! Experienced the hard way sadly…

  • Gelato on 23/08/2019 - 18:02
    +1

    I’m no expert but personally I don’t think what chiro has done would cause you more pain. If chiro has cracked your spine or some other bones then there might be a possibility.

    Have you been eating/resting well? Stressed level?

    There’re a lot of factors that cause discomfort/pain in your body. I don’t think your conclusion is fair to the chiro

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 23/08/2019 - 18:15

      Yep, as i explained earlier i had ZERO drama/ZERO pain before the procedure and had pain during the processes.

      • BestofOZB on 24/08/2019 - 20:49

        You had pain, that's why your GP sent you to the chiro, remember?
        The chiro probably made it worse anyways.

        Get a bulkbilled (free) CT not an MRI, it will show most things, you want to exclude fractures and prolapsed discs, CT will be enough to start with.

        • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 05:55
          -1

          Yep. To clear the clouds;
          I was having once a random now and then pain inside the right hip only. Believe it or not, the whole month and month before i had ZERO issues ZERO pain what-so-ever. It was usually coming back when i sit prolonged hours and do not stand up etc.
          So, searcing for perfect pain free mode in the wrong spot and trusting to wrong people with naive hopes put me into this position.

          I updated the first post and Chrio made it x100 worse. Even the areas i had NO PAIN before now have pain. I'll keep resting&updating and hopefully no big-long lasting or permanent damage.

          I have CT from previous years(Upper body). Do you think it can be used for comparison? I'm just wishing to keep myself RAD-free. As a curious scientist,i once took my geiger with me to a scan and had 54K+(From memory)CPM for whole upper body scan!! Don't want to glow in the dark. (:

          • BestofOZB on 25/08/2019 - 12:05

            @100000000A0000000001: Upper body or Abdo scan would not show the affected area, and they take different series (angles and penetrations or radiation beams) for each body part.

            Ask your GP if a CT of the lumbo-sacral spine is appropriate, this is where I feel your problem is. Unless you are a female younger than 40's I wouldn't worry too much about a one off CT.

  • eldudebrothers on 23/08/2019 - 20:57
    +10

    GP here. I did not read most of your post so take this with a grain of salt and I am offering general advice. See your GP for specific advice to yourself.
    - I never send people to chiros
    - Imaging(MRI) is rarely useful for back pain unless there are red flags/workcover/surgery planning. Xrays are nearly completely useless. CT is meh.
    - MRI can be bulk billed if 1. organised by a specialist or 2. done in a public hospital if there is a significant need
    - Graded rest and activity, short course of anti-inflammatories, weight loss, time, correcting posture, meditation, improving mental health, physio and sleeping well generally sorts out most non serious back issues
    - Talk to the medical practitioner and let them know your issues before escalating
    - Avoid taking opioid/benzodiazipine medications, especially long term
    - Osteos can help some people
    - Have correct form in the gym
    - Invest in a good chair, bed and pillow
    - Do not let pain define you

    • Tyken on 24/08/2019 - 14:17

      Great summary of treatment! Do you practice in sydney? I am looking for a great GP I can trust. I work in a hospital and don’t get sick often. When I do I don’t want to be mucking around with trial and error. I had a lung infection, 6 visits to the same GP over 6 months, GP finally decided to investigate, and then prescribed antibiotics following the outcome of the sputum sample. The delayed treatment resulted in permanent lung scaring in all three lobes.

      • eldudebrothers on 25/08/2019 - 10:14

        I am sorry you had to go through that and I don't practice in Sydney but I am sure there are many great GP's there, just keep looking!. Just some general info I thought I would share if this happens to you or anyone else (or if any medical students out there seeing this), coughs greater then 6 weeks (or 3 with red flags) should always get further investigation with at least 1. chest xray, 2. sputum culture, 3. nasopharangeal pertussis swab and 4. spirometry if a smoker.

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 05:38
      +1

      Thanks a lot for your help. I have updated the OP with the pain map i currently have.

      -Do you think old CT Scans(Upper whole body) might be useful as comparison to see the damage?

        1. Can they take spine and hip together or separate? 2- How long do i need to wait in public hospital?

      • Currently resting my self like baby but got to go back to routine.This whole weekday i didn't rest at all(Which was wrong to do)

      -I'm worried if i call the Quackropractor he will send the Quackro-mafia on me! Do you think if i explain him the situation and offer him to pay for imaging(MRI)/specialist with his insurance cover, would that be fine?(Which, i'm pretty sure he will reject).Do they have insurance for cases like this at all? I just want to be sure that there won't be any permanent damage in the nerve system etc.

      • I used to the exercises before this and now aiming&waiting for the recovery and will go back.

      -Already did long ago

      • You are #!
      • eldudebrothers on 25/08/2019 - 10:20

        I generally do not give any specific advice on the internet for numerous reasons. It is very important given that your case sounds complex that you have a thorough history and exam ASAP from a good healthcare provider (which can be better then scans in a lot of cases). I believe you should get an opinion from a good GP +/- neurosurgeon/occupational health specialist or a sports physician.

  • happirt on 23/08/2019 - 21:41

    Scully Park in Tamworth on October 27

  • FiDad on 23/08/2019 - 22:17
    +2

    What type of GP refers people to Chiro. I thought GP's hate Chiros, mine certainly does. I think you need to change your GP

  • dono2 on 23/08/2019 - 22:37

    I got bored after morning

  • sa-ozzie on 23/08/2019 - 22:44

    I’m tipping OP might also have RSI from typing post

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 05:24

      LoL. No where near. Know how it feels thou. Anthropometric comfort levels for my rodent and guitar while i do write all of these posts are too good to be true except my spine bad-sector..If you are using JackHammers or similar tools i'd suggest SAG.

  • ImpatientTurtle on 23/08/2019 - 23:45
    +1

    If your GP suggests going to a chiropractor you need a new GP.

    This is the actual definition of a chiropractor:

    Chiropractors use hands-on spinal manipulation and other alternative treatments, the theory being that proper alignment of the body's musculoskeletal structure, particularly the spine, will enable the body to heal itself without surgery or medication.

    Does any of that sound based on science? It looks more in the realm of religion to me. I wiggled your spine so your body will heal itself?

    After countless studies the only thing we've been able to prove is a good chiropractor can relieve some back pain at the same effectiveness as taking panadol.

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 05:41

      lol. I think at this stage i can clearly say Panadol > Quackropractor easily!

      • ImpatientTurtle on 26/08/2019 - 00:46

        Think about how much panadol you can buy for the price of one quackapractor session. Now that's a bargain!

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 23/08/2019 - 23:48
    +3

    See a physio next time

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 05:19
      +1

      Duly Noted. Thanks!

      • Trying2SaveABuck on 25/08/2019 - 11:26
        +1

        Im a physio if you want some free advice 'most' acute LBP resolves within 12 weeks but there is a 80% chance of recurrence - According to the British Medical Journal

        Save your money on chrio join a beginner Pilates class once the pain resolves and strengthen your core safely - if you got money join one a physio runs it will cost you more in the short term but will have you loads on care and pain and suffering in the long term.

        good luck

  • Cletus vandamme on 24/08/2019 - 00:06
    +1

    chiropractors are top tier snake oils salesmen not sure if they actually believe in the BS they practice or if they know its a load of crap.

  • pantsparty on 24/08/2019 - 07:27

    This is a long post with many responses. Your main focus really should be on losing the extra 30kgs. Even if your back is currently causing you issues that won’t stop you from dramatically reducing your calorie intake. If I gained 30kgs I would expect to have a lot more health problems then just a sore back. You are responsible for your own health.

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 05:46

      Yep. Believe it or not before the incident i actually was going neat and good with all the exercise plan successfully. Eh, Being naive paid with experience in this bill sadly. Hopefully will get back on easily with no sustaining pain or effects.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/08/2019 - 07:56
    -1

    Its the extra weight you have causing it.

    Have you thought about Weight loss surgery instead of paying for all these MRI specialists etc

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 05:43

      Correct.

      I'd surely place surgery to the end of whole possible options thou. I'll do better diet+exercise combination

  • luffyex2010 on 24/08/2019 - 08:53

    Chiro = love to make crack sounds
    Physio = love to zap your nerves
    Gyne = love to see your privates
    Forensic = love to cut dead ppl
    Surgeon = love cut people up
    Gp = love to tell you about your body
    Dentist = love to fill, clean and extract tooth.
    Ortho = love to see perfect teeth
    Vet = love animals more than people
    Chemist = love to drug you lol

    Note to help farmers: don't waste water and buy local produce instead of imports.

    • holdenmg on 24/08/2019 - 11:22

      Damn, came here to read a rant.

      Getting Public Service Announcements. lol

  • HeWhoKnows on 24/08/2019 - 09:23
    -2

    Chiro should never do anything without a proper spine x-ray.
    If the Chiro didnt have an x-ray then very poor practice since the chiro himnself has nothing to go on

    • solidweiner on 24/08/2019 - 13:23
      +3

      No scientific basis for an x-ray in OP's case. X-rays do not provide justification for pseudoscience.

      • SteatoLegato on 24/08/2019 - 20:27
        +2

        And most chiros wouldn’t know what they were looking for even if it had an arrow sign on it ;)

      • solidweiner on 25/08/2019 - 23:06

        I should add that this does not constitute medical advice, but my opinion purely for the sake of entertainment 🍻

  • akito on 24/08/2019 - 09:52
    +3

    MRI Technician here.

    I would recommend getting a MRI scan as it would help track the progression of the degeneration of your lumbosacral spine.

    X-rays will show the vertable bodies so something like a crush fracture will show up.

    CT scan the image quality and resolution lower in comparison to MRI when looking at spine disc and cord. Also your weight could be a contributing factor for a lower image quality.

    Weight and older age it is a highly common trend amongst patients coming in for lower back pain.

    Having an MRI sooner rather than later can detect any recent trauma through a special sequence called a STIR in a sagittal plane which we only generally so do under specific clinical indications such as trauma, cancer, under a certain age etc.

    Information on STIR "The STIR sequence, designed to suppress signal from fat, also enhances the signal from tissue with long T1 and T2 relaxation times, such as neoplastic and inflammatory tissue"

    Losing some weight will help. Having MRI scan results will identify any disc budging, nerve impingement etc. You might even get recommended for a steroid epidural, facet joint or nerve root by your specialist, although it's not a permanent solution unlike like losing weight, phyio etc.

    You had a bad experience at the chiro, but ultimately you need to hold responsibility for your situation. Unless the chiropractor actually fractured your spine, you can't prove he made it worse unless you have previous imaging for factual comparison.

    • [Deactivated] on 24/08/2019 - 11:56

      Nice summary

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 06:10

      Thanks a lot!

      I think i don't have a fracture otherwise it would be very painful? And another question i want to ask is how can i know if there is a nerve damage? Can i have full range of motion and have nerve damage at the same time?

  • ratman on 24/08/2019 - 10:34

    Tl;dr

    Poor choice supporting the twits who do a weekend course at the local town hall and then insist on being called doctor. Live and learn, and go see an actual medical specialist.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/08/2019 - 11:28

    Chiropractor? 'nuf said…

  • [Deactivated] on 24/08/2019 - 11:58

    Take up yoga with a respected yoga school.
    It won't be pretty for a while, but you will be walking, sitting, sleeping better and stressing less before you can say namaste.

  • star-ggg on 24/08/2019 - 12:41

    I get dry needling from a chiro every month for tight muscles from weightlifting. It goes straight into the muscle only and shouldn't be hitting any nerves. I've had massages and trigger point release with massage ball but nothing works as good as dry needling.

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 06:02

      Did you have pain??? Mine was in between spine bones(or sides) and felt really painful. The more needles stayed there the more painful it got!

      • star-ggg on 25/08/2019 - 09:50

        I've never had it that close to the spine. Sounds like it has a high possibility of hitting a nerve which is quite painful. The rare (1/100 needle insertions) times this happens with me I tell him immediately and he withdraws the needle to try again. I get DOMs up to the day after the session but definitely no weird or excrutiating pain.

  • solidweiner on 24/08/2019 - 13:33

    This is why I see a chiropractor:

    https://youtu.be/D4qcjidU3zk at 2:30

    Who needs a GP when you can get this done?

    /s

  • ph81 on 24/08/2019 - 15:18

    I'm just sitting here reading all of this and wondering why you didn't go to a physio first?

    Then again, I'm just someone with back pain that has it managed by a sports based physio that really know his stuff along with a PT that busts my ass to allow me to maintain a certain level of fitness.

  • zine21 on 24/08/2019 - 15:31
    +2

    I'm almost 100% sure this is a fake/troll posting just because of the language you've chosen to write with. What I don't understand is why one has the need to go through the effort to write such a thing, seems like you have way too much time on your hands.

    But I'll humor you. Ive probably only been to chiropractors a handful of times however have never once experienced any kind of neglect youve outlined above.

    For starters by law, no healthcare professional can treat you unless you provide consent. They will tell you to leave if you don't want to sign the consent form.

    2nd (and this is CRITICAL) Dry needling - is NOT an injection of some fluid to the spine as you make it out to be - its a trigger point therapy that is used by various healthcare professionals- it has a very fine tip that doesn't even cause bleeding. But it can cause twitching in the muscles as well as pain (depending on how terrible the person performing it is I suppose can cause problems with nerves as well - but it shouldn't be permanent.

    3rd MRI is quite accurate and can detect soft tissue injury even in its early stages - but its very expensive- which is why we tend to avoid sending every patient with acute pain for an MRI (unless theres a dramatic accident). Also- if it was a significant issue your ROM would be restricted which its not.

    • sa-ozzie on 24/08/2019 - 22:14

      Totally agree..OP story has more holes in it than a hookers dress…

      • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 06:40

        And Point some of those holes and maybe i can explain to you?

    • 100000000A0000000001 on 25/08/2019 - 06:38
      -1

      You are 101% Wrong as I wouldn't waste my time(and your time) for any of it. Just does not worth it. Would you prefer serious Krypton language? When someone explains their situation in lengthy bytes that does not mean they have too much time on their hands or they are trolls, Consider this.

      For starters by law, no healthcare professional can treat you unless you provide consent. They will tell you to leave if you don't want to sign the consent form. |

      Before the humour you should've read the lines in my previous answers in the topic stating that i DID NOT sign it and explain to other posters how all went thru. They did not tell me to leave. The Chiro did NOT even state or explain what he will do, he just started. If you watched some of their circus videos on youtube they do their adjustments(!) when the people are sort of least expecting. It was similar to one of those with ZERO explanation.

      2nd (and this is CRITICAL) Dry needling - is NOT an injection of some fluid to the spine as you make it out to be - its a trigger point therapy that is used by various healthcare professionals- it has a very fine tip that doesn't even cause bleeding. But it can cause twitching in the muscles as well as pain (depending on how terrible the person performing it is I suppose can cause problems with nerves as well - but it shouldn't be permanent. |

      It is easy to miss-understand things. Have you seen that i stated DRY NEEDLING = Injecting stuff anywhere? That is completely different dot point than DRY NEEDLING and yes, believe it or not they have that kind of method as well which injects stuff into the joint. The DRY NEEDLING thingy that Chiro did on me hurt a lot(still does) during and after the process!! And YES, he DOES it(and it even stated on their website!!) . i also didn't have any bleeding whatsoever. I hope it is not permanent.

      Do you suggest MRI or CT? I still don't know which one i should ask for? Yes, thankfully my range of motion is good but painful. Like when i'm bending i have pain on the area where Dry needles applied.

      Thanks for your feedback as well.

  • johninmelb on 24/08/2019 - 15:33
    +1

    "Chiropractor Caused Severe Back Pain"

    Now there's a surprise. Who would have thought it.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/08/2019 - 15:48
    +1

    My wife keeps going to this guy name Johnny sins, she swears he is the best.

    • SteatoLegato on 24/08/2019 - 20:24

      And he’s not even a chiropractor eh? I feel you bro..

    • luffyex2010 on 25/08/2019 - 07:06

      Lol

    • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2019 - 16:34

      To quote the man himself:

      Don't ever let your girl talk to another man about her problems. A shoulder to cry on will inevitably become a D to ride on

      That's one wise chiro.

  • paraneoplastic on 24/08/2019 - 16:58
    -2

    0-Should i go to MRI asap today?Do fresh damages show up on MRI or my GP does not want to take it seriously?(i have pain but full motion,so he said yea yea yea,nah you are OK)
    A: You can get an MRI early but it won't be covered by medicare and will be out of pocket. If there was true damage to the nerve sheath and or nerve roots the edema is apparent within in days. The problem is in neuro, we can't definitively say whether x amount of edema will cause x amount of neuralgia.

    1-Any risk of permanent damages?
    A: nerves do not regenerate, if there is any true damage, i.e. dissection or 'tear' it is unlikely to recover completely (depending on age). However you are describing a radiculopathy and not a myopathy which indicates no motor nerves have been affected.

    2-Burning sensation at the dry needling area,infection,inflammation?Is there a nerve damage,can it be visible in MRI from this Dry needling?(GP had no idea what it is)
    A: unless he managed to some how to get the needle through the facet joints into the nerve canal. This is very unlikely, even with imaging it's difficult to go subcut into the root.

    3-Your Family/Friends experiences about this kind of "back wreckjustment"?Did they have the similar experiences? Did they get better or had pain etc?
    A: can't answer this, but i have told patients chiro = waste of money

    4-How are these "Clinics" which are running on Complete Nutscience are legal? Some are doing almost live human experienced and no regulations??? IF i wanted to build&manufacture a ladder i need to go thru a wall high(literally) of AS standart and paperwork and these clinics can do inject solutions into human spine??
    A: They are not considered medical practitioners, same way how beauty therapists function, if you sign the consent form there isn't much you can do. Luckily you didn't sign the consent which was smart.

    5-Should i do a legal stand or sit up or chin up? Will raise complaints here and there but i don't think they'll take it even seriously.
    A: up to you, you would need to prove you didn't provide consent, and prove you have lasting injury.

    • SteatoLegato on 24/08/2019 - 20:23

      His symptoms are too vague and probably psychosomatic - sounds like he came in expecting to be screwed over and manifesting the expected. What would you MRI? Spine? Head? Hip? A quick one-over physical and neurological exam should eliminate anything serious. Rest will get better with Panadol… and perhaps diet and exercise

      • paraneoplastic on 24/08/2019 - 21:17

        I never advised any treatment or management. Nor explained his symptoms.

        All i did was answer his questions.

        If true neuropathies could be accurately detected on physical and neuro exam, imaging wouldn't exist. Vice versa as well. I had a patient tell me he would kill himself and name me in his suicide note in a neurosurg clinic as the consultant and I agreed he didn't require surgery (based on MRI, , yet his pain to him was excruciating and adl limiting.

        In saying that, i've also had a patient who had undergone chiro and ended up with a basilar artery dissection… As such if a patient is sufficiently concerned i would offer imaging (but again i never advised whether to scan or not).

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