Managers overstepping boundaries?

SlavOz on 26/07/2019 - 23:39

My department manager is one of those solely career focused guys who's only mission in life is to get promoted and succeed at work.

To that end, he's started to pressure people in his team (inc. me) for doing anything that might make the department look anything less than excellent. Taking on more projects with unrealistic deadlines, demanding that we bend over to other departments and never push back on unreasonable demands etc is understandable. The main gripe is that he's started to suggest how we should speak, how to act, to whom we should or shouldn't be allowed to have conversations with, not get involved in company-wide jokes etc. Surely this is beyond a team manager's right within a company?

What's worse is that he expects everyone in his team to strive to be as committed to their careers as he is. That's all great for a manager to push people, but the reality is that not everyone wants to succeed at work. Some just want to get by and do their hours and go home. Some don't care whether they succeed or not and prefer the wind to lead the way. That's their perogative. To me, a managers job is to manage workload and performance. Instilling personal values or priorities onto other people is definitely not what managers are paid to do or even have much of a right to do I'd imagine.

Am I a minority on this? Dw - I'm not in any danger of losing my job as I was hired by a friend whos much higher than he is. The main issue is that it's making the workplace less enjoyable and too Nazi-style.

Education & Work

Comments

  • altomic on 27/07/2019 - 00:03
    +1

    send an anonymous letter to the managers manager. done

    • SlavOz on 27/07/2019 - 00:20
      +1

      It's a small team and I feel that would lead to people being indirectly hated and punished for something they didn't do.

      I've already spoken to him head-on and stood my ground (for myself at least, I can't speak for others). We found some common ground but it still hasn't stopped (today I was given a subtle remark about leaning back casually in my chair during an meeting with management). If it goes on I see no other choice but to make an anonymous complaint with HR, which I feel terrible about because personally he's a great guy when he's not in crazy Third Reich mode.

      • payton on 27/07/2019 - 01:30

        well, you could tell him that you share (or understand) the ambition but pushing everyone too hard would lose him their respect and do far more harm than any imagined good. Same goes for bending over and saying please when the other teams tries to walk over yours with unreasonable demands.

      • brad1-8tsi on 29/07/2019 - 13:07

        Make diary notes with dates/times and what happened.

        Generally it's a lot of small things they think are trivial that amount to a lot in the end.

        I had a team leader who didn't put his brain in gear before opening his mouth and he would comment on:
        My hair
        My casual clothing (we don't have a policy and I was neat and tidy)
        My shoes
        Whether I had sex that weekend.
        Various other items that were acceptable 30 years back but not any more.

        I presented him with a list of 10+ items and said "Are you going to stop or will I take it further?" I wasn't the only one and others went straight to his boss and he isn't a team leader anymore.

        • SlavOz on 29/07/2019 - 19:16

          That sounds like pure harrasment or even bullying. In that case I would've unleashed very quickly and demanded they be reprimanded. Not because it bothers me, I can take a hard time, but it's simply an abuse of power and illegal.

          In my case I feel like it's difficult since the hard time being given to me is hiding behind corporate jargon and formalities that can be passed off as misunderstandings.

          • brad1-8tsi on 30/07/2019 - 07:43

            @SlavOz: The guy was just a brainless fool that hadn't moved with the times. We are the same age and I know what used to be "normal behaviour" 20-30 years back. He is so dumb (in this respect) that him and his long time mates still send lewd jokes & pron to each other through the company email. /facepalm.

            Just document things. Later when analysed it will be like putting a puzzle together.

            Harrassment comes in many forms.

  • try2bhelpful on 27/07/2019 - 00:18
    +6

    I will answer this as if it is a serious post. However, it does smack of troll post.

    The first thing I would do is talk to your much higher up friend and see how this guy is viewed. I had a manager where I disagreed with his management style and it ended up with me moving to a different department because he was "protected" by management above him. It was only after his protectors moved on that the extent of his "issues" became evident and it still took them about 12 months to move him; despite the fact his staff universally hated him and what he was doing was actually hurting the department.

    I would, perhaps, have a rethink yourself about what you consider to be success. A good employee wants to be successful in their job and add value to their company and customers; that doesn't mean they have to unbalance their lives to do it. You need to give, and take, as you go along. If I was your manager, and I heard a few of the things you've said above, I would have a quiet word with you about how your comments might be interpreted as meaning you don't really care about your job. It is not about the hours, but what you deliver whilst you are doing them. He may think he is helping you to improve yourself, but might be over stepping the line.

    Be careful about thinking you are untouchable because you have someone further up the tree; if your manager can show you are not pulling your weight your friend might not step up as you think and people move in and out of companies all the time. It is always worthwhile to keep your network active across a range of departments, or even companies. The best way to do it is to have a reputation for delivery, being valuable and being helpful. Your reputation is the most valuable thing you have but you need to nuture and protect it.

    Start with talking to your contact and feel out the waters. Your manager is unlikely to change his style if management is happy with him. Look for new fields and think about why you are doing what you are doing and why someone would find you valuable enough to give you money.

    • payton on 27/07/2019 - 01:31
      +1

      I will answer this as if it is a serious post. However, it does smack of troll post.

      OP isn't 'Member since 59 minutes ago' at least!

    • Icecold5000 on 28/07/2019 - 11:50

      I’d start looking for a new job. Try to time the new start dates with taking 4 weeks annual leave when you will give notice in the departure lounge.

      If people like this want others to work to such expectations then they’d better open their wallets.

  • SlavOz on 27/07/2019 - 00:32
    +1

    Hi, thanks a lot for the feedback and concern mate! Unfortunately this isn't a troll post.

    The thing is I'm very good at what I do, and I'm passionate about doing it. I've been recognised internally by other departments and managers countless times for my work. But I do it because I enjoy it. Seeming professional, getting promoted, being liked by managers etc is not something I care for. I just want to come to work, do what I'm good at and get paid to do, and go home. There's nothing in my contract about being forced to express total love for my career or dedicate my life to succeeding. That's my personal perogative.

    Like you said its not about hours. It's about money and results, which I'm delivering with my eyes closed. I want to be left alone to do it but my manager would rather I focus less on that and focus more on dancing and dressing right to impress people. Even if I was committed to my career, this wouldn't be the smartest move.

    I'm definitely not untouchable. If anything I wouldn't mind walking away citing personal reasons if it couldn't be rectified. To me it's a matter of principle. A manager shouldn't be pushing their personal values and life/career goals onto other staff.

    • try2bhelpful on 27/07/2019 - 01:30

      If this is the case then I would, certainly, having a frank talk with your friend and, perhaps, look elsewhere in the company. If you have the reputation then it should be a possibility.

      If you stay in the current department you need to ensure you have the documentation to prove that you are delivering the money and results. Maybe you can sit down with your manager, outside the work situation, and see if you can de-escalate the situation. It may just be that he sees you as potential "management material" and thinks he is trying to mentor you or thinks you are "wasting time" instead of doing your job. He might be getting pressured by senior management and thinks his job is on the line if he doesn't agree with their deadlines; you don't know what politics is happening above you. Frankly I agree with you, I never wanted to get involved in management BS either. I just wanted to be able to deliver to my company, and customers, and be given autonomy to do it; but companies, sometimes, can't get out of their own way.

      They guy I dealt with was a nightmare and, after finding out the lay of the land, I knew I couldnt win; so I went elsewhere in the company. If you can repair the situation then certainly try to, but be aware that if he is considered to be delivering the goods then you need solid evidence that what he is doing is considered well outside the scope of management. If you are going to take this on, particularly if you escalate, I would be careful about the examples you use and certaily get your documentation in line. My suggestion is to step back and document everything you think has been an issue then think about how you would present it as an official complaint. To be brutal, mediating is not something senior management wants to worry about, so they arent really interested in your principals here. If you can show what he is doing constitutes harassment then they might be interested, but you need to make sure your aren't caught in blow back. Frankly, saying the guy is "nazi-style" or "not everyone wants to succeed at work" are not a professional look.

      • SlavOz on 27/07/2019 - 08:41

        Thanks for the tips.

        I wouldn't call this harrasment at all. He's extremely kind and polite most of the time, and never demands something in a management tone. Gotta grant him that.

        I had a private talk with him once before, very early in my tenure. After that he backed off and let me do my work in peace. But he's started up again recently. Funnily, this coincides with him spending a lot more time and having close personal chats with a female senior manager. It's not my place to suggest there's a romantic interest, if there is I'd be happy for both of them, but it shouldn't be happening at the peril of his job and those he manages. It's obvious that he's pushing his team to impress people for the sake of him looking good, professionally or otherwise.

        Honestly I reckon this will die down and hell budge eventually. He's a smart guy and we're good on a personal level, I think a long, long conversation just needs to be had.

        • try2bhelpful on 27/07/2019 - 11:54

          You do seem to be making a bunch of assumptions here that I would leave at the door when you go in for the chat. Keep it low key and keep it professional. Frankly, you are the one at the disadvantage here so you need to be careful not to make it look like he is being lectured to. There is such a thing as mentoring, and this might be just what is happening here. She may have warned him that his department is being seriously looked at for underperforming. It certainly isn't your place to suggest a romantic relationship, because it probably isn't happening. I would be prepared to listen to what he is saying and why.

          • SlavOz on 27/07/2019 - 12:27

            @try2bhelpful: Absolutely - these are simply my own personal observations which I plan on keeping to myself. Like I said, even if it was a romantic thing that is well within their rights and I don't have a problem with it so I wouldn't try to use it against them. I plan on keeping this professional.

            If our department were underperforming that would make things easier for me given that my performance is quite good. Interrupting it would surely be the last thing a smart manager would do. If an employee is bringing in good results at a time when your team is under pressure why risk demotivating or losing them to personal gripes? Wouldn't make sense.

            • try2bhelpful on 27/07/2019 - 12:31
              +1

              @SlavOz: I've offered what I can here. Best of luck with how this plays out.

  • garetz on 27/07/2019 - 01:32

    It seems to me this manager is way overstepping his bounds of his position, ive had this happen once with a team leader, i took that team leader aside, and said that i am here to do a job that i enjoy, i get paid to do that job, i do not get paid to be told how to live my life by you or anyone else, if you have issue with my performance let me know, but you do not have the right to tell me how to do my job, and i wont tell you how to live your life.

    Pretty much never had a problem after that, however if you do not defend yourself, noone else will. If you are prepared to lose your job or walk away as you put it, why not just confront the matter head on first, you never know the guy might not be an (profanity) and just is as passionate as you are, but has lost perspective.

  • Hardlyworkin on 27/07/2019 - 07:45
    +1

    Leave a 'management for dummies book on his desk'.

    Failing that, record every single little thing in a diary. If it hits the fan later then it could help you. Write him an email saying that you are struggling with his management style and finding it hard to come into work every day because if it. Get it in record. The guy sounds like a knob.

  • chumlee on 27/07/2019 - 08:49

    Stash some meth in his desk drawer and get someone to constantly call the office asking for your manager and leaving messages that you want to swing past for a "cold one"

    • [Deactivated] on 27/07/2019 - 10:11
      -1

      That's a patently criminal offence.

      • chumlee on 27/07/2019 - 13:02

        It's a joke Ned Flanders.

        • [Deactivated] on 27/07/2019 - 15:06
          +1

          It's no longer funny when it suggests ruining a person's life through criminal activity.

  • [Deactivated] on 27/07/2019 - 10:10
    +1

    Without knowing the pace at which you work, you could very well just be the lowest common denominator. We will never know.

    Your reliance on securing your employment through a friend and considering that as leverage against your manager does not paint a pretty picture.

    • SlavOz on 27/07/2019 - 11:45

      I'm not relying on a friend to secure my employment. You haven't read the part where I've stated that I am continuously doing a good job and being recognised and condoned by other departments and managers. Doing what I'm paid to do, as set out in my contract, and then some. That's what I rely on to keep my job.

      The security I feel from my friend being in higher management is that I know it will be difficult for me to lose my job due to unfair treatment or covert sabotage.

  • whooah1979 on 27/07/2019 - 11:46
    +2

    who's only mission in life is to get promoted and succeed at work.

    You make this sounds like a bad thing. Every business value productive and motivated workers over those that aren't.

    • SlavOz on 27/07/2019 - 12:37

      It's not a bad thing, it's simply a personal preference. Other people value their family, culture, health, or other callings more than their career and that's their right. As long as they can follow company rules and deliver what they're paid for, what they do or value in their personal life is irrelevant.

      Also, being committed to career success doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be productive. If you're under-qualified, untalented, behind the curve, or have personal egos holding you back, it really doesn't matter how much you pretend to be committed you're still not going to be productive.

      • HighAndDry on 30/07/2019 - 10:23

        what they do or value in their personal life is irrelevant.

        But he's not controlling what they do in their personal life, he's controlling what they do at work. Which is literally his job description as "manager".

        • SlavOz on 30/07/2019 - 18:20

          Telling someone they need to disregard their personal values and dedicate all of their attention to climbing the corporate ladder isn't what a manager gets paid to do, nor is it something they are allowed to do. Managers get paid to control workload and performance.

          The company already has a policy for dress codes, language, use of equipment, etc. How I think or what I care about isn't their concern - if I'm meeting my performance targets then I'm fulfilling my contract.

    • grasstown on 29/07/2019 - 20:25

      I’d say it’s a pretty pointless life . Be pretty dire for him if he didn’t work. Sad really

      Not really a sign of productivity or motivation.

  • HighAndDry on 30/07/2019 - 10:23

    That's their perogative.

    Lol, no it's not. There's a reason he's the manager - i.e. he manages the workers. And if workers don't want to "succeed at work", it's his prerogative to pressure them to succeed or force them out.

    • grasstown on 30/07/2019 - 16:05

      He’s a crap manager, overstepping his role. Going beyond succeeding, and most likely only interested in making himself look good on paper and climbing that corporate ladder, with no concern for the employers interests

    • SlavOz on 30/07/2019 - 18:23

      Meeting performance targets to the point of being condoned by other departments already constitutes "succeeding at work". How I look while I'm doing it, how I smell while I'm doing it, or what senior managers think of me while I'm doing it is irrelevant. Some people may care about those things, and that's fine, but I don't, and they can't force me to.

      • HighAndDry on 30/07/2019 - 18:43

        How I look while I'm doing it, how I smell while I'm doing it, or what senior managers think of me while I'm doing it is irrelevant.

        This isn't the case in any professional setting.

        and they can't force me to.

        No, but they can fire you.

        • SlavOz on 30/07/2019 - 19:33

          Not sure what companies you've worked for, but I'll have to disagree. An employment contract is a legal agreement to follow company standards and produce required results. It says nothing about holding certain priorities or even having a smile on your face while you do it.

          As far as I'm aware, a company can't fire you without good reason either. They'll need to state which protocols an employee has breached and if they can't do that they'll be susceptible to a wrongful termination or discrimination lawsuit. "We don't like him, his handshake is too weak, he doesn't take part in team jokes, he talks to Sarah from Accounting instead of Allison from Sales" won't cut it.

  • lainey13 on 30/07/2019 - 22:50

    Ah shit managers. Shit comes in many flavours. My previous experience was a real strict headmaster type (despite being younger than me). The kind that was strictly controlling and wanted to make a great impression and that's all that mattered. After a few too many ticking offs I quit and got a massive pay rise by switching to contracting. It'll be pretty hard to get your manager to change so either put up with it or get out….

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