Is Ageism Real When Looking for Work ?

• 

  dcep on 15/07/2019 - 10:49

  +2

  does wage expectation correlates with age ?

  • 

    Chubbsmcfatflabs on 15/07/2019 - 10:58

    Hmmm maybe for some and also in some roles??..But in the job market I work in it is set by the role requirement and indeed the marketplace.

    It is what it is, take it or leave it. There is sometimes room for negotiation…

• 

  87percent on 15/07/2019 - 10:57

  +8

  Yeah it is, unfortunately. I was recently looking for a PM and I was speaking with one of our contractor companies and they basically said that SOME older candidates, are difficult to work with because that don't take direction well from younger managers. But at the same time, they also told me the younger candidates jump ship very easily to another role/company because they don't like whatever parts of the existing role. In the end, I ended up grabbing an internal staff who didn't have the necessary skills, but had enough knowledge to get the project done

  So you're damned if you do, and your damned if you don't

  • 

    Chubbsmcfatflabs on 15/07/2019 - 11:03

    +1

    That taking direction well line is amusing. It could well apply to anyone in the workplace, or in reverse.

    • 

      87percent on 15/07/2019 - 11:14

      i personally find the older contractors easier to work with. They don't require hand holding, and will only come to you when they genuinely need it. Whereas I've had a couple of younger contractors, who drove me nuts with some of their stupid questions and also their constant "sick" days

      • 

        beautysnippets on 15/07/2019 - 11:39

        +1

        I have found the opposite to @supasaiyan. The older contractors were really hard to work with and gave a lot of push back when I gave them instructions. I train all contractors the same way, but the older ones had the "I know more than you" attitude. The ones I worked with found it harder to adapt to new OS, programs, databases.

        • 

          Icecold5000 on 15/07/2019 - 21:00

          +2

          @beautysnippets: Did they actually know more than you and were they trying to save your project?

          • 

            beautysnippets on 16/07/2019 - 08:00

            @Icecold5000: @icecold5000 - No, it was very simple processing work and I was explaining what the company's processes are and the expectations of the company for this type of work. To give me that attitude only to stay quiet when something goes wrong is ridiculous. I had to save their work and caseload as it wasn't being managed by them appropriately.

    • 

      fishball on 15/07/2019 - 11:43

      +11

      Exactly. I've worked with amazing 21 year olds and amazing 65 year olds. Also some dumb as bricks people from varying age groups.

      Generalizations don't help anyone but when you're a dumb manager or recruiter who doesn't know how to hire you just put these assumptions in play which is why we get dumb things like 10 years experience required with 6 year old tech or under 50s only as requirements.

• 

  djones145 on 15/07/2019 - 11:13

  +5

  certain companies have mature age quotas, like women in senior leadership

  target those companies!

  • 

    Pumpkin_rrr on 16/07/2019 - 08:40

    I've been wondering about this: how to find out what companies have this policy? Any tips @djones?

    • 

      SlickMick on 16/07/2019 - 22:06

      Honestly… I've been out of work 3 years and yet to find one of these.

    • 

      djones145 on 17/07/2019 - 22:33

      +1

      check there annual reports, in the diversity sections

• 

  iampoor on 15/07/2019 - 11:20

  I have the reverse experience - Got the interview and all went well but in the end the feedback was that I did not appear "senior" enough to command respect for the role and might not have the necessary life experience.

  That was my first interview for a C level role, nabbed the next one :)

  • 

    Chubbsmcfatflabs on 15/07/2019 - 13:38

    I had that when I was mid twenties. I still got asked for ID when i was in my 30's. Not now though. Too much grey !

• 

  HighAndDry on 15/07/2019 - 11:58

  +1

  Depends on how you define it. Is "ageism" discrimination based ONLY on age? Or discrimination that correlates with age, but that includes other factors like wage expense (associated with experience and seniority), expected time in the role and fixed costs of replacement (time till retirement), and even less tangible things like drive/ambition/career-progression-ability, etc.

  • 

    SlickMick on 16/07/2019 - 22:17

    I don't see it.
    Wages? No-one pays a 50yo more than a 40yo for the extar 10 years experience.
    Remaining Years? I have to work till 67, so 17 years left in me - a pretty decent stint I would have thought.
    Ambition? I don't think older employees are in retirement mode any more than younger are in party mode or those in between more are interested in their young families. I don't think age is a reasonable factor at all.

• 

  [Deactivated] on 15/07/2019 - 12:05

  +6

  Ageism in the workplace is a thing! I'm a scientist and was 'loaned' to a big pharma company to oversee their R&D facility. I was bullied because I looked young, being tall, lanky with curly dark hair , glasses and good skin. I was in fact 28 years old , married with 2 kids and held a PhD from a first-class research university.

  The nickname I was given by my colleagues ( technically , my subordinates!) was Dr Doogie, after the child prodigy character in this show. My authority was questioned on a daily basis and challenged at every meeting, that is if people did bother turning up for said meetings. My allocated car space was always taken, I was never included in the coffee runs or the after-work drinks on friday nights. I was miserable. So much so that I asked to be removed from the project, even if it meant a paycut.

  I was rescued from that job and sent on an assignment to Paris (France!), on an 18 months expat visa.It was the best 18 months of my life! I worked with like-minded scientists with whom I really connected and on an R&D project that I was truly passionate about.It was such a joy going into work everyday :) Oh, and my employer threw in a free gym membership.So when I came back , not only was I fluent in french and had a big chunk of my mortgage paid off by my renters but I was also buff! :)

  • 

    Zazer on 15/07/2019 - 13:36

    +1

    wow, appreciate you sharing jar jar! glad to hear it worked out :)

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 16/07/2019 - 11:57

      +1

      FWIW, what I learned from that experience was that you cannot change the culture of your workplace, on top of doing whatever you were employed to do. There is also no glory in sticking it out till the very bitter end: no one will thank you for it! It is so much easier to walk away and find employment somewhere where you fit in. Your mental health will thank you for it :)

• 

  SydStrand on 15/07/2019 - 13:29

  +2

  If you have lots of experience with good references, it shouldn't be a hindrance. But what kinds of jobs are you applying for? If it's entry-level, then employers will always prefer new grads who don't have dependants, more flexible with hours, probably more willing to work for less, and can stick around.

  • 

    Chubbsmcfatflabs on 15/07/2019 - 13:37

    I'm not applying for anything ATM..If I was it would be equivalent of my current role. Middle management. So nothing that I had't done before.

    I have seen a few articles in the news and been speaking with colleagues who have said that its a very real thing.

    I personally haven't had any experience of it, but I am getting older so I thought I would test a forum for a view on what others had experienced.

    • 

      SydStrand on 15/07/2019 - 14:08

      +3

      It's definitely a real thing. Employers, justifiably or not, feel they'll get more out of young workers who don't have to pick up kids from school, are more desperate for a job (and thus willing to put up with things like unpaid hours), and have lots of years still in them.

      Customer-facing jobs like retail or hospo are more biased toward younger, attractive workers because they're 'brand ambassadors.' It's why you never see lumpy, middle-aged men working the counter at Sephora or Flight Centre.

• 

  barbarella on 15/07/2019 - 14:01

  +1

  Yes ageism is alive and well, although 'they' will never admit it :/

• 

  GG57 on 15/07/2019 - 14:18

  +5

  It must be a thing, otherwise why would our government offer this:

  "The Restart wage subsidy is a financial incentive designed to help employers hire eligible mature age job seekers who are 50 years of age and over."

  • 

    HighAndDry on 16/07/2019 - 17:33

    That'd still make sense if there are real costs associated with employing older workers that it serves to try and combat. I personally define discrimination only if it's not relevant to the job.

• 

  bobbified on 15/07/2019 - 15:45

  harder to get roles suitable for my Program/Project management experience/quals/skill set.

  If you've gained experience in those management roles, it's likely you have also built up a network in the industry during the years that you've worked there (and have hopefully built up a name for yourself).

  Unless you've moved to a new location or you are trying to change industries, you could perhaps make use of your existing networks.

  The only time this becomes a problem is when something has happened and your reputation has gone down the drain. Then things may become difficult or impossible. (I don't know you and obviously dont know your past, so im not suggesting you're in that situation).

  I'm in the type of role you're after and 99% of the time, we often simply try to just offer the roles to people we know who are "tried and tested" - age never comes into it. Only if we can't find anyone that we would go external. And again, age plays no part in the decisions.

  • 

    Chubbsmcfatflabs on 18/07/2019 - 10:59

    There is a pyramid effect however, where the higher you get up the "ladder" the less roles available, that are suitable or that you'd be interested in taking on.

    Unfortunately "Networking" is not something that comes easy to some people and there are many that are lost to business/companies even though they are more than capable as they don't "Network" well and find it awkward to ask even just for a coffee meeting to "catch Up". Selling ones self is not something that many do well unless they are natural sales people.

    I'm pretty sure my rep is ok, but I take your point. It can happen especially in small markets there is a number of people I wouldn't employ.

• 

  pgcs on 16/07/2019 - 07:56

  +1

  Certainly seen the lighter side of 50, yes ageism is a pain. Unless you're a high-demand rarity, don't expect it to get any easier.

• 

  temporiser on 16/07/2019 - 08:15

  +1

  Yes it is and having worked in both the private sector and the public service, it is worse in the public service

• 

  HeWhoKnows on 16/07/2019 - 18:28

  +1

  These days anyone over 45 is put behind younger applicants
  But been like that for a long time.
  Thats why you see older people starting thier own businesses.
  Doesnt seem to apply as much to womens jobs such as secretarial roles.
  The government is aware and has tried putting programs in place to encourage employment of older people.
  See here:
  https://www.employment.gov.au/restart-help-employ-mature-wor…

  • 

    SlickMick on 16/07/2019 - 22:28

    I hadn't heard of that. Obviously employers haven't either. Do I put it in my resume "you can get a heap more experience and it'll cost you $10k less"??

• 

  SlavOz on 20/07/2019 - 12:00

  +1

  Yes. Ageism, like all forms of 'discrimination', is real in all aspects of life, including the workplace. In my experience character and likability are at least 75% of the hiring equation.

  That being said, it works both ways. Young applicants get stereotyped and rejected too. Even at nearly 30 I'm the youngest person in my workplace and I get quirky remarks all the time about being a "kid". In fact, it's become an accepted joke which I don't mind, but before old people start complaining remember that it's completely unthinkable for someone to make fun of you because of your old age, so you have that privilege over the young people who get made fun of all the time for theirs. There are pros and cons on both sides.