Big 4 Bank Call Centre Making Casual Staff Work Longer Hours Without Paying Them

POTATO10 on 05/07/2019 - 09:40
Last edited 05/07/2019 - 11:39 by 1 other user

So a friend of mines recently got a casual full time position with one of the big 4 bank as a call center operator for their cards department in south bank.
she told me that they must be at their desks 15 mins prior (which is not paid for) to their actual starting time to make sure they get all the required software running so they can start taking calls as soon as their shifts starts.
example : if your shift starts at 830am, you have to be at your desk at 815am and if you are not , it is considered that you are late.(this 15mins is not paid for)

also if you your shift ends at 430 pm and you are still on a call (which sometimes can last up to 1 hour or more) you have to stay back and this also is not paid for.

same for tea break(15mins) if you on a call and miss it, for whatever reason you are told that you can only take 10mins instead of 15mins and every single minute you are late is accounted for.

lunch breaks timings are also a mess , say lunch is at 1pm and you are on a call, you can only go to lunch after the call which after a 2hour is 3pm .( so you started work at 815am , get a break at 10am for 15mins and then go lunch at 3pm.( i personally think this is cruel)

i think this is very unfair and illegal and this bank is taking a massive advantage on those causal staff and worst, since the staff are causal full-time they cannot argue this situation by risk of losing their jobs.

Any thoughts on how to solve this situation.
i believe that they should be compensated for every single minute they are working since they are casuals and not permanent-salaried fulltimes.

OK LETS LEAVE THE LUNCH SITUATION OUT AS I UNDERSTAND IT IS NORMAL.

Education & Work

Comments

  • trev likes bargains on 05/07/2019 - 14:12
    +5

    Any thoughts on how to solve this situation.

    1. Get the keyboard fixed. Seems that Caps lock is stuck.
    2. Ask the friend to look for a solution.
    3. Try speaking to your friends employer and get them to pay for the extra time. I'm sure that they will be happy to lower the hourly rate to compensate for the extra time.
  • POTATO10 on 05/07/2019 - 14:13

    Thank you all for your thoughts and advice :)

  • FareEvader on 05/07/2019 - 14:31
    +1

    I don't think you should get paid to come early…being on time for work = being early! 15 minutes isn't much anyways, it gives you time to get ready (coffee, toilet, start computer programs, say a prayer etc). However, on a casual basis, I think you should be compensated for staying back.

    • POTATO10 on 05/07/2019 - 14:33

      agreed..i think same too :)

  • Jugganautx on 05/07/2019 - 15:01
    +1

    Username checks out. What a spud.

  • souleaterX on 05/07/2019 - 15:22
    +3

    Worked for a Big Four bank for 10+ years.

    Basically expected that you do the overtime. Sure you can make a big song and dance about it, but it wont help. People who put in more hours and complain less seem to be put higher on the pedestal than someone who brings up working hours being more than they are paid for.

    Fair? Definitely not. But you have to do what you have to do to keep a job these days.

  • PopCounty on 05/07/2019 - 15:51

    This could be issue there. Sure.
    But someway we all play the role when needed.
    What if u are seeing a doctor and In between consultation he goes for lunch?
    What if a painter, halfway, goes for school holidays for their kids?
    What if You call to that same bank and someone goes for lunch, loo or anything in between, what wd u feel.

    But what if, in this very competitive market, ur friend did put in extra effort and get some real good customer appreciation? During those long lunch hours?

    Sometimes there is ‘more than 100%’ that makes the difference. Not saying ur friend should do. But he/she has to make collective decision.

  • mrcherry on 05/07/2019 - 16:34

    I doubt that the contract stipulates arriving 15 minutes early but that the consultant must be ready to take calls (i.e. Do their job) from the start of their shift. Presumably if they arrived dead on their start time then they would have to start up their computer, log into systems etc which is time spent not doing their job and would likely be marked as 'late' by their supervisor. I have worked previously at an insurance company whose call centre worked exactly like this. They would certainly not be expected to take calls before the start of their shift.

  • Shiny Mew on 05/07/2019 - 16:43

    That work arrangement sounds wonderful compared to mine as a full-timer.

    I work 55-60 hours a week, get about 20 minutes for lunch when I can fit it in, don't get paid overtime, panic everytime I leave my desk and my job requires extensive education and extracurricular experience to make it into. All for less than $50k a year.

    • whooah1979 on 05/07/2019 - 16:51

      But you love it, right?

      • Shiny Mew on 05/07/2019 - 17:01

        Hate every minute of it.

        • Never Pay RRP on 05/07/2019 - 21:19

          Maybe you should take a job as a call centre operator at a big 4 bank.
          You can take OP's friend's job when they listen to our unanimous advice for her to quit
          :P

    • spackbace on 05/07/2019 - 17:16

      All for less than $50k a year.

      Oh snap! Ouch

    • Donaldhump on 05/07/2019 - 17:59

      So why not just work 40 hours then. No one expects you to do that…. if they do change jobs

      What industry.

      • Shiny Mew on 05/07/2019 - 20:35

        Legal practice, which is somewhat ironic. It's extremely difficult to find work as a solicitor, so quitting without having a role lined up and consequently enduring an extended blank space in my CV could set my career back extensively.

        • Donaldhump on 05/07/2019 - 21:11

          Guess just the way it is. One day you will loaded though

    • brendanm on 06/07/2019 - 08:22

      Go to university they said. Make lots of money doing something you love they said.

      Why would you even stay in this job at this point? Go and work at Coles or Bunnings with zero stress for higher pay.

  • cyrax83 on 05/07/2019 - 16:51
    +3

    Tell your friend to suck it up and stop being a princess.

  • popcornready on 05/07/2019 - 16:52

    I think 15minutes prior is appropriate.

    It’s a specified time because if you simply said “make sure you are ready to take calls at 9am” you would have people rocking up at 8:59 and then ultimately being late. This prevents the occurrence from the few (or many?) in low paying jobs who will push the envelope.

    I also think it’s fair that you need to have your tools ready for work by the start time.

    I’m sure the call centre require people to wear pants. Do you want them to pay for that time to get dressed because it’s a requirement of your job to have your junk hidden?

    • Never Pay RRP on 05/07/2019 - 21:22

      Do you want them to pay for that time to get dressed because it’s a requirement of your job to have your junk hidden?

      If the employer insisted staff be physically present in the office while putting the pants on, I would say they should get paid for it. Most people get changed at home

  • orangetrain on 05/07/2019 - 17:30
    -7

    Yes. You should be paid for your time as it's required in your job. You're obviously not padding the time. Unfortunately, with Liberal and useless Labor (Vote minor party!), they blurred the legality of it by saying that since it's expected as part of contract, it's legal.

    It is shitty advice but with Australia's free market mentality, leaving the job/industry will put pressure on employers to offer better pay/conditions.

    It's also why I abuse the service people who remain on the call as part of indirect efforts to have better pay/conditions and get my request actioned. Obviously the better workplaces allow their staff to hang up on me. But not all, they really need to leave before it becomes USA style.

    The fear of outsourcing is nonsense. Long term, the bank will have a reputation of shitty support. And they're very aware. Noticed all service places have sales staff in Australia? What should be feared is effective automation but that's $$$$$$

    • spackbace on 05/07/2019 - 17:33
      +5

      It's also why I abuse the service people who remain on the call as part of indirect efforts to have better pay/conditions and get my request actioned.

      Obviously the better workplaces allow their staff to hang up on me.

      Wow… The words that come to mind to describe you can't be used in a moderated forum.

      • orangetrain on 05/07/2019 - 17:37
        -7

        The government created a system based on free market beliefs to suppress wages. I'm using the same belief to decrease the labor supply while employer demand is same. As a result, wages rise. Economics 101.

        • spackbace on 05/07/2019 - 17:39
          +10

          No, there is no justification for treating someone like shit and hoping they hang up on you. You can't defend those actions with anything other than an absolute disrespectful nature towards people.

          No one with an IQ above 5 would back your actions.

          • orangetrain on 05/07/2019 - 17:42
            -5

            @spackbace: So its ok to let them be content with poor pay and conditions? I'm giving them the nudge.

            • brendanm on 06/07/2019 - 08:24

              @orangetrain: Congratulations, you are contributing to damaging people's mental health.

          • Icecold5000 on 05/07/2019 - 18:33
            +3

            @spackbace: Look up something called ‘logical fate’ where you are hoping to reach a conclusion but if it based on a faulty premise then the inconsistency makes the reaching of the conclusion impossible.

            It’s amazing to see this stupidity so bluntly illustrated with Orangetrain’s comments.

  • Vote for Pedro on 05/07/2019 - 17:33

    Not sure what’s already been said but an important consideration would be the agreement they are covered by. It’s usually provided when you start a new job. Your friend should speak to their union for advice

  • Imhereforcomments on 05/07/2019 - 17:38
    +1

    Welcome to the jungle

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 05/07/2019 - 18:07
    +8

    Lol hospitality workers work 2-3 hours more a shift

    Doctors can work 3+ hours more a shift

    Lawyers are expected to work 65+ hours a week

    Teachers work extra at home

    etc etc

    Im a physiotherapist and i can tell you i spend extra hours writing medical notes and studying medical journals when im not sitting patients

    welcome to the real world

    not saying it is fair but it is life

    • hasher22 on 09/07/2019 - 21:48

      Salary vs wage hunny

      Two different things

  • Hardlyworkin on 05/07/2019 - 18:21

    Which bank?

    • ribze1 on 06/07/2019 - 12:27

      Melbourne based call centre so ANZ or NAB.

      Note: Westpac and CBA are based in Sydney.

  • wyrmy on 05/07/2019 - 19:47
    +2

    The only unacceptable part here is not getting paid for the early start time. As others have already mentioned there is nothing wrong with the lunch scenario.

    The end of shift is.. unfortunate. Ideally extra time would be paid for, but guess what? Some staff would take advantage of this and drag out calls to increase their earnings. That's just a sad reality of what tends to happen (even if its a minority). You can complain about companies and greed but that same attitude exists whether you wear a suit or not.

    I know many people who used to work in call centres. They worked hard, up-skilled and excelled in many areas and either moved roles within the company or founr better jobs elsewhere later. Tell your friend to plan for the future instead of focusing on the minutes lost in the current job. That time is far less than what most waste on gratification like Facebook.

    • POTATO10 on 05/07/2019 - 20:12
      -3

      This makes a lot of sense..U are by far one of the best response to this situation.

  • macfudd on 05/07/2019 - 20:59
    +7

    Having worked for a large financial company a couple of years ago that did have a contact center with over 700 staff (though I wasn't in it), I can remember seeing flyers on the walls from the FSU letting staff know that there was no contractual responsibility for them to be there early and unpaid for their shift. The time it takes staff to log into the systems is on the company. If they want to spend money to boost PC performance so logging in doesn't take 15 minutes then they are supposed to balance that against the costs of rostering people to start earlier.
    Given it was an FSU flyer I would suspect theres likely a Fair Work decision backing that up somewhere as no way the company would have let it be put down in writing otherwise as their HR was incredibly anti-union.

    Personally I feel a casual should be paid for every minute they are there. If I'm on a call to a company and it goes past 5pm then damn right I expect the person going out of their way to help me should be paid for it.
    The idea that someone could try doing it daily to pad their hours just doesn't work. Calls that take you past your sheduled break or finish times gives you negative stats for adherance - and extended call lengths are even worse.
    The best suggestion is for your friend to talk to the FSU rep at her officeplace (which may involve joining). If its a big 4 bank there's a chance they have some federal level EBA that lets them do what they want so she might just have to put up with it.

    • Chris12345 on 07/07/2019 - 17:46
      +2

      Your doing ozB forums wrong. Your supposed to sneer down at the plebians from your high horse, not offer reasonable and fair observations and suggestions.

  • Zondor on 05/07/2019 - 21:29
    +1

    You should be paid for the time stayed back after work if you are stuck in a call.
    As long as you are available to take calls at your designated starting time this is all that matters.

    Source: Worked at a HP call center.

  • troy1976 on 05/07/2019 - 21:57
    +8

    Ugh, I knew this thread would bring out the 'lazy entitled bludger' style posters. Anything to do with employment or housing is the same. Funny how the employer stealing free labour is fine but if the scenario involved the worker padding out the timesheet with hours not worked I'm willing to bet they would have less of a 'get over it' attitude.

    If they are casuals (in law), on an hourly basis etc, then they are required to be paid on the basis of their contract which would clearly specify $x per hour. There is no expectation in law of 'free work' because when a company decides to hire casuals it is telling them 'I take no obligation to you whatsoever outside of what is in the contract - usually OHS requirements, whatever the minimum under FairWork is and then an hourly all inclusive rate'. Some could argue this is ideal (usually people who don't work in that environment, or already own a house, or have lots of money etc) but whatever. It's possible but extraordinarily unlikely their contract is $x per hour plus some free time chucked in per day. Not how it works.

    Sure they can work for free if they want to but this situation on the face of it is just exploitative. Before people chime in, people on a salary are different because the company in that case has made a commitment to you and usually contracts for those jobs make explicit allowance for flexibility as required - you also, as a worker, have an incentive to do so because the company has made a committment to you. Remember that casuals in Australia have no guarantee whatsoever of continued employment and can be 'unhired' effectively in the space of minutes.

    Oh, and I'm in my 40s and have worked in relatively senior roles as both a contractor and as an ongoing employee so I've experienced both sides. I've worked insane hours for months on end (in my salaried role) and in my contractor roles it was always clear that every minute billed had to be accounted for - and in fact they were very clear that you were NOT to work extra hours under any circumstances. They were more concerned about the money but I guess given they were hiring a bunch of 40 and 50 year old guys with senior corporate/government backgrounds they knew they'd get ripped to pieces pulling crap like the OP has referred to.

    Here is the reality though. Yes, it's exploitative and wrong but as casuals they have minimal protection, the call centre knows it and if you (they) cause a problem you will be terminated immediately (as is permissible with a casual) and then you've got to find another job. Now again, many in this thread talking as if that's easy or no problem but the detachment from reality involved in that attitude is truly something to behold. Not everyone is some sort of high level IT provider or corporate high flyer.

    • Chris12345 on 07/07/2019 - 17:50

      Look your opinion is all well and good for those fat cat casual workers, but what about the poor destitute big 4 bank? How are they going to make ends meet? Lucky there are great folks in the OzB community going in to bat for them.

  • mousie on 05/07/2019 - 22:01
    +1

    Do they get paid while they are doing #2s ON shift?

    This is a human rights violation.

    Meanwhile.. in China.. banggood 12c USB type c cables with free shipping.

  • Lexan on 05/07/2019 - 22:40
    +1

    That's very cruel. I did the same at maccas for 6 years as a manager. I gave up. I had to be at work 30mins for pre shift. And 30Min for overtime when I don't get to finish my work on time. Total 5hours a week. That's about 180$ lost

  • seal the deal on 05/07/2019 - 22:53
    +1

    I had this exact job over a decade ago and what you have described is pretty standard and union approved.

    In a bank, unless it is a sales call, the objective is to end the call as quickly as possible. The one hour calls that you describe don't usually happen. If an agent is on the same call for that long, their team leader is automatically notified and they usually try different strategies to get rid of the caller since that will negatively affect their metrics; and if the issue is not resolved in one hour, the chances are that you can't resolve it, but the caller doesn't want to accept that. No one is going to win in that scenario.

    • Icecold5000 on 05/07/2019 - 23:05
      +1

      This happens a lot with telco and Internet support that’s been outsourced to India. Management conflates short calls with customer satisfaction as a metric, Indian dude doesn’t give two squirts of piss about a resolution and just wants to get you off the phone resulting in massive customer churn when people get pissed off.

      • seal the deal on 06/07/2019 - 09:01

        That may be the case in other industries, but banks are pretty locked down and the software has many layers of redundancy to ensure that things eventually work out.

        For that reason there is a very well defined and strict set of actions an agent is able to take over the phone when you call the bank. They generally know whether they can help you within 30 seconds of the call starting.

        The main reason I have seen for call going over time is when the agent cannot help the customer and the customer does not want to accept it.

        For example, they have used a 3rd party ATM but did not remove the cash in time and the ATM swallowed the cash. They have immediately called their bank to resolve the problem but there is nothing that can be done. The financial institution that owns that ATM will eventually refund the money but it could take a few hours or might happen at the end of the day reconsolidation. The customer just has to wait but they usually do not want to. I personally always lied and said "I have opened a case on your behalf, someone from the team will be in touch with you shortly" since that works better than telling the truth.

  • mccarthyp64 on 05/07/2019 - 23:50

    When I worked at iiNet (Internode residential support), we had a schedule with 7h 5m of call taking each day. We had a 30 minute lunch break, 15 minute morning break and 10 minute afternoon break. We then had an 8% leniency in that 7h 5m for long calls, toilet breaks etc which added to about 35 extra minutes. I was particularly good at dealing with calls (target average was 15 minutes and my average was 8 minutes), although some others were better I would hope.

    The system worked quite well as the measurements were done daily, but effective monthly so you could "adhere" well for the first 3 weeks of the month and then relax for the last week without issue.

  • Gelato on 05/07/2019 - 23:52

    There could be a union behind the scene that supports the employees of the bank. Perhaps you can get your friends to look it up.

    Mind you though my feeling is that union/bank will say they are paying a "premium" on casual staff as a compensation for unworked hours. Generally casual staff has less rights/entitlements to perm staff imo

  • [Deactivated] on 06/07/2019 - 07:21
    +1

    I think your username of potato suits you

  • harrywwc on 06/07/2019 - 08:23
    +2

    Hmm,

    I've not read all the comments, but I would suggest they nab (sic) this in the bud and see about joining a union.

    these working conditions are just plain unethical. if you are at work, doing "work stuff" then you should be paid for that "work stuff". if you are owned a break, then you get that break, the whole break - even if it is late, because of "work stuff".

    generally not a huge fan of unions, but in this instance, it is essential that everyone there joins up and pushes back again these (profanity).

  • Punda on 06/07/2019 - 09:08

    Start times aren’t the guide to walk in the door. Most places you need to put your things in a locker, lunch in the fridge etc. and imagine being a hairdresser- no set lunch or tea breaks. Just take it between clients. They love their jobs

  • gimme on 06/07/2019 - 09:35

    Cry ne a river. Majority if Aus workers regularly work overtime with no pay. If your friend has to do half an hour here and there big deal. Harden up gain some skills drop rhe entitlement and further your career.

    • [Deactivated] on 06/07/2019 - 10:54

      The point is casuals don't get entitlements, that's why they get paid for the work they do

      • gimme on 06/07/2019 - 20:22
        +2

        Most time watchers will be in time watching jobs for life. Ponder that. The smart ones don't whinge about 30mins here and there, they just build up their skills and move to better prospects.

  • [Deactivated] on 06/07/2019 - 10:53

    Sounds illegal. They should talk to their union

  • idonotknowwhy on 06/07/2019 - 21:47

    If your shift starts at 830am, you have to be at your desk at 815am and if you are not , it is considered that you are late.(this 15mins is not paid for)

    Can't they just leave the computer on overnight, or put it into sleep mode / hibernate?
    If not, IT could at least automate booting the machines before the shift starts.

  • Nuff-Nuff on 07/07/2019 - 00:16

    I worked at a big 4 bank call centre for about 2 and half years. If our shifts started at 9am we were supposed to be logged in and ready to take first call at 9am which meant being their earlier, but the managers never specifically said we had to come early, but they strongly ‘suggested’ it.

    In terms of the overtime, our one worked in blocks of 15 mins, so if your call went to 5:05, hard luck. But if it went to 5:08, you could claim overtime for 15 mins.

    We only got 2 10 min breaks, if you missed the scheduled time you could still go but it would affect your results. Same with lunch.

  • Bumhole on 07/07/2019 - 12:05

    Hey OP,

    How about if the work building is a high rising building and takes like 5-8min to get to your floor due to the morning rush. Should the employer pay for you?

    lol

    • POTATO10 on 07/07/2019 - 13:50

      What are you on about?? Lol

  • hasher22 on 09/07/2019 - 21:46

    When I worked at Optus, they introduced the "15 minute huddle" policy where staff needs to come in 15 mins early before their rostered shift and have a mini meeting for the day.

    It didn't go down too well because it was unpaid, after a few complaints to HR, they started paying us.

  • wen6309 on 18/07/2019 - 21:13

    Don't like it - feel free to quit and go unemployed.

    All this whining about Big 4 banks making money and screwing everyone in the way.

    Do you know who owns the Big 4 banks? Superannuation funds from everyday working Australians

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