A Question for Computer / Tech experts about SSD’s.

thebadmachine on 04/06/2019 - 18:26
Last edited 04/06/2019 - 18:27

Hi so we own a new all-in-one desktop computer which came with an SSD + HDD.
And we have an old tower desktop computer (with HDD only) which still lives on, so I am thinking about getting a SSD to replace its HDD which is seemingly past it’s due date (computer is 6-8 years old).

Three questions here.

  1. Firstly I would like to confirm if most of the other components in a PC are quite reliable (Processor, RAM, Motherboard etc), and just changing out the HDD for an SSD will give it reliably prolonged life (I have unplugged & opened up the old tower desktop, and inside was spotless).

  2. This question is about SSD’s and their maintenance / use in general.
    So I am aware that instead of defragmentation / disk management of HDD, SSD has the ‘trim’ & optimise functions in Windows 10 on our newer all-in-one desktop.
    I watched a short video by Linustechtips on YouTube who explained ‘trim’ as like holding down the ’insert key’ when typing, so basically it ‘preps’ the memory so that deleting + writing can be done in one write to the SSD, instead of two writes, which would be equivalent to a backspace then typed letter.
    So this ‘trim’ / optimise feature would quite dramatically extend the life of an SSD if I understand correctly (half’s the number of writes to the SSD).
    I have it currently set to ‘trim’ or optimise once a week (I think this was default).
    Is there any specific frequency I should be setting this at? (Once a day or once a month)

  3. Also are there any tips to minimise writes to the SSD? One I thought of was to minimise letting the computer to sleep or hibernate.

Thanks for reading.

Computing Computer Component SSD

Comments

  • AdosHouse on 04/06/2019 - 18:51
    +5

    1. I have very rarely seen CPUs and RAM sticks fail, but motherboards can be hit and miss. Seen some going strong after 10 years, others 3 years and dead.

    2. You are worrying too much about SSD life. Enable trim, overprovision the SSD about 10-20% and don't worry about it from there.

    3. Letting the computer sleep would write all the RAM to the HDD, so the SSD would take a hit, but you won't notice it unless you are running massive amounts of RAM and running a crap load of programs simultaneously.

    • thebadmachine on 04/06/2019 - 19:59

      Hi thanks for your reply.

      1. Seen some going strong after 10 years, others 3 years and dead.

      I’m guessing this is the same with HDD’s, when you land on a good one they last 10+ years.

      2 & 3.

      Thanks you are probably right here I’m worrying too much and I use minimal programs so should be fine.

      • trongy on 05/06/2019 - 00:26

        For reference, my Samsung 500GB SSD is nearly four years old (purchased July 2015). I use it almost every day for web browsing and gaming and I've taken no special care to minimise writes.

        The Samsung Magician software reports 17.3 TB total bytes written. The spec sheet says it should support 150 TBW. I've stopped worrying.

        • thebadmachine on 05/06/2019 - 09:16

          Thanks for the information. I think I will have similar use case (minus the gaming) so possibly 30+ years lifespan at that rate.

    • thebadmachine on 04/06/2019 - 20:09

      By over-provision do you mean just have at least 10-20% free space?
      Or is this another setting separate from trimming?

      Edit: I just read a quick thread saying some SSD’s already have over-provisioning, so it’s best left alone.
      “You understand that the unallocated memory is the portion of memory set aside for future block failures and when you use overprovisioning you are taking away from this reserve. If you care about the drive controller being able to have reserve blocks to move data to when they begin to fail then leave well enough alone.”

      • AdosHouse on 04/06/2019 - 20:57

        Over-provisioning is intentionally leaving a portion of the SSD unused, and as block burn out/die, it closes them off permanently and uses one of the over-provision blocks in its place.

        If you have a Samsung SSD, the Magician software allows you to change the over-provision amount. I have mine set to 20%, because my SSD is just my OS drive and it is a 500GB SSD.

        • thebadmachine on 04/06/2019 - 22:54

          Ok understood thanks. Main lesson learnt here, with SSD always buy more storage than you need / intend to use, in order to preserve its health.
          In my case currently using 25-30% of 1TB, so I think it’s safer to go with 1TB SSD over anything smaller.

      • skillet on 05/06/2019 - 11:04

        For moderm SSDs, TRIM treats free space as over provisioning. So just don't fill up ANY SSD drive.

    • rogerm22 on 05/06/2019 - 13:01

      For point 3, you are confusing sleep with hibernate. With sleep, everything stays in RAM. But everything else you said is true.

      • thebadmachine on 05/06/2019 - 13:07
        +1

        Yes it seems with my inexperience I mentioned both in my question. I appreciate both of your comments. I had the suspicion of what you said (sleep = memory stays in RAM), as a laptop chews through battery in sleep mode vs hibernate.

        • alvian on 05/06/2019 - 15:41

          There are two kinds of sleep in Windows. Classical sleep where everything stays in RAM, and hybrid sleep which is classical sleep + hibernation. When there is a power outage, the PC will reboot from classical sleep but will resume from hibernation with hybrid sleep.

  • poohduck on 04/06/2019 - 19:01

    +1 on above comment re motherboard. There is a certain amount of metal fatigue every time the computer is turned on or off. Turn it on, it gets warm, solder joints etc expand. Turn it off, it cools down, solder joints etc contract. After saying this, none of my laptops has ever died. I end up replacing them when they no longer do what I want which is usually raw photo editing. Software gets more resource hungry and raw photo files increase in size. Generally this is around 6 - 8 years. I always get lots of memory with a new laptop so that it doesn't become the bottle neck - this buys more usable life. I usually buy mid range and when it's a big discount.

    • thebadmachine on 04/06/2019 - 20:05

      Thanks for sharing.
      If the motherboard gives out I guess I will just have to deal with that.
      The (older) tower computer is for minimal use though, since it is just an old machine that refuses to die, I have repurposed it as a music catalogue and iTunes syncing computer.

  • Cave Fire on 04/06/2019 - 19:23

    The first gen ssds were prone to failure and wore quicker. They seem more resilient now. Best thing imo for the old hdd is to have some sort backup plan and then replace.

    • thebadmachine on 04/06/2019 - 20:08

      Yes I have backed up everything (just music files) recently to external.
      So I can just do this until the HDD dies (I think it may still have some good mileage left in it).

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 04/06/2019 - 19:25
    +2

    A modern consumer SSD will last for a very long time. You don't really need to worry about writes to it. The life expectancy of SSD drives had increased heaps over the past couple of years. Don't worry.

    If you're still worried, SSDs are cheap and getting cheaper everyday.

    • thebadmachine on 04/06/2019 - 20:13

      SSDs are cheap and getting cheaper everyday.

      Good point. Maybe waiting around is a good option. I was looking for Samsung 860 EVO 1TB under $100 (hopefully one day).

      • scrimshaw on 04/06/2019 - 21:58
        +1

        I am thinking about getting a SSD to replace its HDD which is seemingly past it’s due date (computer is 6-8 years old).

        there are a range of low end SSD's that will nicely suit a 6 to 8 year old PC. It would make sense to buy the latest and greatest if your PC is quite new and is being used for heavy, disk intensive applications, but for old soon-to-be retired grandpa pc's they only just need the basics to get a good performance uplift.

        You don't need a Samsung EVO SSD to put into a computer that old, it's most likely going to be bottlenecked by it's other slow components anyway, e.g a pc that's using DDR3 RAM with first gen Intel Core i5 wouldn't need 860 Evo. Crucial BX500 is okay even if it doesn't have a DRAM cache, and if you need one, there's also the budget Samsung QVO.

        • thebadmachine on 04/06/2019 - 22:47

          Hi, yes thanks for the info. The old PC has DDR3 RAM and Core i7.
          I looked up good SSD’s and Crucial MX500 comes up.

          When comparing the 1TB MX500 with the 960GB BX500 here, it seems the latter model (BX500 as you suggested) was more recently released. Would this mean the 960GB BX500 is a competent SSD?
          I am inexperienced on this topic and all I knew so far is Samsung SSD is high quality.

          Only reason I suggested the 860 EVO is because of the model’s reputation, and my assumption that the ‘top’ model would be getting the most modern memory technology (cells etc). Therefore I assumed better lifespan & reliability.

          • AdosHouse on 05/06/2019 - 02:02

            @thebadmachine: Honestly with the low cost of consumer grade SSDs out at the moment, I wouldn't even bother trying to save a few dollars getting the lower tiered SSDs.

            Grab a Samsung 860 Evo 500GB for $110. Or you can save $20 if you want and get the MX500 500GB, they are good too, but I'd put the Samsung a bit above it.

            Do you actually need 1TB for a SSD? The platter drive is where more of your bulk storage should go.

            • thebadmachine on 05/06/2019 - 09:18

              @AdosHouse: Hi thanks. I plan on replacing the HDD entirely with SSD (so only a single main storage memory) as the HDD (and computer) is very old.

          • alvian on 05/06/2019 - 06:00
            +1

            @thebadmachine: MX range > BX range

            • thebadmachine on 05/06/2019 - 09:20

              @alvian: Noted. In which case I may just go for the Samsung.
              Also thinking that achieving recommended TBW may take 20+ years at the usage rate I predict, the cost seems much more reasonable now.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/06/2019 - 20:06

    A tip for SSDs is keep a fair amount free so writes aren't all to the same area.

    • thebadmachine on 04/06/2019 - 20:14

      Is keeping space free = over-provisioning?

      • AdosHouse on 04/06/2019 - 20:59

        No, over-provisioning means that that portion won't ever be written to unless it is used to replaced dead sectors.

        Good practice is to never fill up an SSD.

        • thebadmachine on 04/06/2019 - 22:56

          Thanks for your clear and concise statement. Term understood.

  • blitz on 04/06/2019 - 21:40
    +2

    Also are there any tips to minimise writes to the SSD?

    Just write to the SSD and live your life.

    • thebadmachine on 04/06/2019 - 22:49

      Yes thank you for your comment. I can become obsessive at times and I value your advice.

  • alvian on 05/06/2019 - 06:05
    +1

    Strategies to minimise write to SSD: Increase RAM and turn off swap file. Increase RAM and use a RAMDisk for Windows Temp directory. Keep the old HDD for data, scratch, and Windows Temp directory. Turn off hibernation and hybrid sleep (very important with increased RAM). Enable write cache and write consolidation (if provided by SSD software).

    • thebadmachine on 05/06/2019 - 09:24

      Thanks for the detailed information. It seems with minimal special tweaking & those who only demand basic use, the SSD’s lifespan is quite adequate. So I will likely leave things (settings) as they are, and only do over-provisioning and trimming.
      I am guessing they are making it easier for inexperienced consumers like me, and (at least) Samsung has software bundled with the SSD to maintain its healthy use.

  • Bid Sniper on 05/06/2019 - 09:46
    +1

    Slap it in away you go, old PC will die before the SSD.

  • RefusdClassification on 05/06/2019 - 09:53

    To entend SSD life, you can disable hibernation, change the Windoze Temp dir to one a mechanical hard drive, dowload files and torrents onto a mechanical HDD, put browser cache on mechanical HDD.

  • dcep on 05/06/2019 - 11:37

    if you want superfast + preserve SSD + no power outage/critical tasks,

    fill your system with 16gb ram (ddr3 are cheap)

    turn off paging file / virtual memory

    for some reason my system boots faster with HDD + paging/virtual mem disabled , than SSD + paging file left ON.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/06/2019 - 12:11

      Shouldn't paging/virtual memory be bigger and order of magnitude slower?

    • thebadmachine on 05/06/2019 - 12:50

      Thanks for your suggestion.
      I know I asked for expert opinions, but this is all getting a bit too tricky to understand.
      I prefer to keep Windows settings as they are if possible (I have read about many methods such as opening ‘run’ and typing in code etc to alter how Windows operates).

      I think I will just go with putting in the SSD and using over-provisioning & trimming, which I mentioned in this reply.

  • mjwills on 05/06/2019 - 13:55

    I'd suggest getting OneDrive or dropbox or the like installed. Then backup your important files to the cloud.

    Then, god forbid, your machine dies - no worries.

    • thebadmachine on 05/06/2019 - 15:35

      I have already recently backed up to external drive. Thanks for your concern.

  • thebadmachine on 05/06/2019 - 18:59

    Hi again everyone, I just experienced something odd for the first time that may mean the old PC is on its way out (and it may be smarter to either throw it out, or replace it with a cheap new PC).

    I was backing up some files to an external HDD (this part is important) and I started seeing multicoloured pixels lines along the lines of the UI of windows (definitely along the UI so the monitor is fine as in that case it would be random pixels).
    Imagine just multicoloured single pixels in a line going all the way around the border of this comment, but also on other borders.
    This is the first time I have seen this and it bothers me about the other components in the PC.
    Some brief searches for the problem came up with “early Videocard RAM failure” which would be a big issue since I just checked and the old PC relies on the GeForce card as it is the only display adapter.
    I am now worried that after I get an SSD, soon after I will have to get a cheap graphics card, then soon after something else may give out.

    I just finished up casually using it (without external HDD connected) to see if it would happen again. It was fine. Can a external HDD cause this kind of thing ?
    NOTE: the USB ports on the front which I use are kind of dusty, can a bad connection cause this kind of issue?

    Just sharing to see if you have any comments. It looks like the old PC is nearing the end of its life.

    • peteru on 06/06/2019 - 00:25

      First, I would not trust that backup. There's a non-trivial chance that data may have been corrupted.

      Second, if the problem only occurs when you hook up an external drive, then the most likely culprit is a power supply. Probably bad capacitors, which is a fairly common mode of failure after 5+ years.

      Good news is that replacement power supplies do not have to be hideously expensive and can be re-used in new builds, unlike most other PC parts.

      • thebadmachine on 06/06/2019 - 14:00

        Thanks for your reply. I thought the same thing about corruption. The files I backed up are audio files. I gave them a listen from the backup all was fine.
        It’s worth another check though.

        • The mikky on 06/06/2019 - 20:42

          You should backup to at least 2 different devices, and preferably one is always offsite, or invest in some cloud storage and backup to there.

          • thebadmachine on 06/06/2019 - 20:59

            @The mikky: Back up has been pretty solid so far, they are just audio files which I ripped from CD so worst case I can do it again.
            I’m confident with the majority, it’s just the few recently backed up files which I’m worried about being corrupted as per peteru’s comment.
            I played back some of files off the backup and they were fine.

            Seriously confused as to what those weird pixel lines were, things are fine since it happened. It was a shock when it happened though, thought Windows was going to burn down.

            • The mikky on 06/06/2019 - 22:24

              @thebadmachine: Try replacing the cable going to your monitor as well, that is a common result of dodgy cable, or even just a slightly loose cable in socket

              • thebadmachine on 07/06/2019 - 17:12

                @The mikky: Hi yes, the cable is good. I also checked the tightness of the screws recently.
                I will double check again. Thanks.

                • The mikky on 07/06/2019 - 21:45

                  @thebadmachine: No worries, just seem that before and thought I would mention it, hoping it’s something simple for you to fix, but anyway you can buy an ssd now that you want, even if the system fails, you can put the ssd in your new system anyway, it’s not like it won’t work in a new system.

      • thebadmachine on 06/06/2019 - 22:05

        Hi partial update, have been ripping CD’s then backed up some files to the external HDD this evening.
        In the process I checked many audio files that I backed up on the day of the issue (using sort by date modified), and all played fine as if the original file.
        I suspect some kind of error checking / correction must happen when transferring, or at least when safely removing the device.

        Everything has been fine, the issue seems to have gone away.
        It was very concerning when it happened though.

        While discussing getting an SSD in this thread & experiencing this concerning unknown component issue. I am seriously considering spending the extra to get a cheap brand new desktop mini tower with SSD as the duties required are only as a 2nd PC for sorting / syncing music files.
        I will probably run this old tower PC into the ground and risk losing a few files until I have the money to spend on a new system.
        Thanks for all your help.

        • scupper on 08/06/2019 - 20:22

          You can always try buying some second hand pc on eBay, especially those that show up here on ozbargain.

  • thorman on 13/06/2019 - 21:32

    You could use something like primocache to ram cache writes and perform trim before it even hits the ssd, should improve life a bit - https://www.romexsoftware.com/en-us/primo-cache/index.html . Also most ssd's come with software that performs a similar function to write caching like momentum cache for crucial ssd's. Also massivively increases performance for 4k 1Q1T writes.

    • thebadmachine on 14/06/2019 - 00:31

      Thanks. Initially was going to give the old PC ‘new-life’ with an SSD, but after recently experiencing ‘ghosts’ in the machine (see this post) I am thinking I’ll run the computer until it breaks down, then troubleshoot from there.

  • sghetti on 14/06/2019 - 09:52
    +1

    An upgrade from HDD to SSD in almost all cases will give you better performance and longevity. For an existing/older computer, other than a GPU upgrade for gaming, an SSD will make the most amount of difference over any other upgrade.

    I wouldn't be concerned about TRIM function and how frequently it is performed. Windows will handle this by default (on supported OS'). The SSD controller and OS these days have come such a long way that you don't need to be concerned about the maintenance.

    As others have said, only thing I'd consider is over provisioning for space. If you max out an SSD you may see performance degredation.

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