Headphones, AMP, DAC - Discussions

Jabberwocky on 17/05/2019 - 20:26

Hello Audiophiles & Enthusiasts

I am here to discuss experiences with like minded people who share love for music listening via Headphones, AMP, DAC.
What's your favourite combination to listen to music ?
- What Headphones
- AMPs (if you use)
- DACs (if you use)

I will start:

Headphones:
- AKG K712 PRO
- Fidelio X2HR
- Audio Technica ATH R70x
- Shure SRH 1540
- AKG Q701
- NAD Viso HP50
- Fostex TH 610
- Bowers & Wilkins PX
- Fostex T60RP

AMPs:

JDS Labs ATOM
GESHELLI Archel Pro
SMSL SH-8

DACs:

Topping D10
Topping D30
KHADAS Toneboard
GESHELLI ENOG2 PRO
SMSL SU-8 Ver2

Money invested : $4500 approx

Best combo I feel amongst the gear I have:

Vocal Centric Songs —> ATH R70x + KHADAS Toneboard + Geshelli Archel
Instrumental / Orchestra —> SRH 1540 or AKG K712 + KHADAS Toneboard + Geshelli Archel
Hip Hop / Electronic —> Fostex TH610 (or Fidelio X2) + KHADAS Toneboard + Geshelli Archel

DESIRED / WISHLIST:

DT 1990
Focal Clear
Focal Elear
THX AAA 789
Topping D50
Oppo PM-3
Topping DX7

What's your gear like and How much have you spent on it ?

Do you feel its worth the money you have spent on it ?

And most importantly help others like us with your views, opinions on the gear you use or if you can suggest others.

Your gear, views, opinions, suggestions, advisory ?

Electrical & Electronics

Comments

Diji1 on 17/05/2019 - 20:42

Everybody listening to digital music is using a DAC and throwing more money at it doesn't increase audio quality.

I am currently using Asus Strix DLX for DAC and amp with AKG K712 Pro and Audeze Mobius which have an integrated DAC and amp.
AdosHouse on 17/05/2019 - 21:45

$150 Sennheiser HD4.50NC and my phone. Good enough.
thebadmachine on 18/05/2019 - 12:08

Thanks for sharing your experience. I think it helps with decisions when information like this is shared.
Although I prefer listening to loudspeakers, this would be useful to headphone users.
alvian on 18/05/2019 - 15:13

Also see this old thread https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/259714
thebadmachine on 29/06/2019 - 18:06

Hi there Jabberwocky, I told myself to stay away from the headphones game. (So currently only own 1 pair, which I am very happy with since I have nothing to A/B it to).
But in researching a pair to recommend to someone, I found myself wanting to buy one for myself (when it’s on sale).
The model in question is the Fostex T60RP, and I see it is on your list.
If you could share some of your notes on the T60RP that would be appreciated thanks.
- Jabberwocky on 29/06/2019 - 19:36
  
  Fostex-T60RP is the best headphone under $500.
  If you are into massive bass hits or a basshead then this is not the right headphone.
  It’s a very musical & balanced headphone.
  At the time of purchase my final list included (Closed Headphones)
  
  T60RP=$350 — Aeon Flow Closed=$1000 — Audeze EL8=$800
  
  So you can see that at $350 , this is one Headphone that was punching way above its weight !
  Even at $350 it’s a very very very good buy.
  - thebadmachine on 29/06/2019 - 20:40
    
    Thanks for your response. I am very much a person who prefers balanced sound over bass punch / power.
    The cheapest I can find currently for the T60RP is $369. With other places selling for $379 I am waiting round for a cheaper price. I am sure they are worth $350 but thats still a bit steep for my budget.
    Also it is more an experimental interest rather than a necessary one.
    
    One thing I have read up on them is the T50RP are Fostex’s ‘analytical / studio monitor’ headphones and after all the mods to tweak the sound became popular (mayflower, argon), Fostex went ahead an released their own true ‘reference’ version which is the T60RP.
    This kind of reading gets me interested. And a few additional things: closed-back / planar-magnetic drivers at a decent price / balanced internal wiring.
  - thebadmachine on 29/06/2019 - 20:44
    
    Just one more question: Here in measurements the response changes only a little just in the low-end, when driving from a low-impedance source. Would you say your experience is similar ? Or does this slight lack of low-end (when driving from a cheap DAP or smart-phone) affect the tonality of the sound?
    I concluded the T60RP’s impedance of 50 ohms is low enough to drive from a DAP / smart-phone.
    - Jabberwocky on 29/06/2019 - 21:53
      
      One thing I am sure of that these need a decent amp (Magni 3, JDs Atom, Geshelli Pro Archel) atleast to drive
      They have a low dB rating ..don’t get confused wt low impedance
      - thebadmachine on 29/06/2019 - 22:44
        
        @Jabberwocky: I tried to compare to the Sennheiser HD600 which I thought was known to be hard to drive from portable.
        I could only find in specs: “Sound pressure level (SPL): 97dB/1V” for HD600, and “Sensitivity: 92 dB/mW” for T60RP.
        Which was hard to translate so I just ended up comparing 300 ohms to 50 ohms.
        
        Jabberwocky on 29/06/2019 - 22:49
        
        @thebadmachine: No … T60RP are (I believe) harder to drive than HD600. 92dB is very low and needs a decent amp. My Atom & more so Geshelli drove them beautifully and very well.
        
        thebadmachine on 29/06/2019 - 23:20
        
        @Jabberwocky: Ok thanks.
        In which case 92dB would be harder to drive than 97dB (produce less noise at the same gain levels).
        
        Edit: I just found the same dB/mW measurement of HD600 here.
        Sensitivity by power: 100.57 dB/mW
        
        So yes you are correct, it seems T60RP is much harder to drive than HD600. (91.54dB/mW vs 100.57dB/mW)
        
        Jabberwocky on 29/06/2019 - 23:37
        
        @thebadmachine: Yes - T60rp is harder to drive, but an amazing headphone for the price !! Phenomenal Headphone for the price … nothing touches is until you hit $750+ mark
Jabberwocky on 29/06/2019 - 22:49

No … T60RP are (I believe) harder to drive than HD600. 92dB is very low and needs a decent amp. My Atom & more so Geshelli drove them beautifully and very well.
- thebadmachine on 10/07/2019 - 18:20
  
  By the way I noticed your pairings / combos have a consistency being the Khadas Tone board. It sounds like a really good bargain for what it is. There’s a pretty good looking aluminium case for it here.
  
  Also it looks like the March Audio DAC1 uses the Tone board inside, although at 4x-5x the price. It’s Australian designed and built, and comes with a high quality braided USB cable & 3 years warranty. I guess those who want to support Australia can buy it…
  - Jabberwocky on 10/07/2019 - 19:05
    
    I know about the dac , but they charge alot for shipping. For $60-70 AUD not worth a case alone.
    March Audio DAC1 , does not make any sense.
    
    I found an amazing DAC a real bargain DAC though it's $650 DAC but punches way above its weight like KHADAS.
    
    Gieseler Klien III DAC
    
    https://www.gieseler.com.au/product-page/m16d-klein-dac-iii
    - thebadmachine on 11/07/2019 - 09:54
      
      Regarding the Khadas Tone board case, that’s silly so $27 for the case + $70 delivery makes it almost as expensive as the Tone board itself. Still cheaper overall than the March DAC1 though.
      Gieseler Kline gives me a Geshelli Labs vibe, only with opaque enclosure.
      Geshelli Labs Enog2 Pro seems to be a good DAC too.
      - Jabberwocky on 11/07/2019 - 13:58
        
        @thebadmachine: I am using Geshelli Enog2 Pro love it ..It's my go to DAC after KHADAS
        
        thebadmachine on 11/07/2019 - 18:05
        
        @Jabberwocky: I know I am over-simplifying things here but:
        I wonder how much difference you will hear between AKM4493 (Geshelli Enog2 Pro) and AKM4495EQ (Gieseler Kline).
        
        I am a Sabre DAC person myself, own 2x Balanced Sabre DAC’s.
        I listen only through speakers and prefer the absolute detail (especially in the top-end) over musicality.
        From my experience between Sabre’s the differences are extremely subtle (maybe you will notice more differences through headphones), although I am aware of the occasional leap of a new competitive chip.
        
        Another DAC well recommended to me from others is the RME ADI-2 DAC (AUD$1699 -sounds silly when you have the Khadas). Well out of my budget, but apparently very well put together, regardless of the DAC chip it uses it (AK4490EQ) apparently sounds leaps ahead of all other DAC’s (very well German engineering with great internals working together in symbiosis).
        Also the amount of tweaks and settings it has is mind boggling (very thick user manual).
        
        It’s difficult to recommend you anything, as you seem more experienced than I am. And you never really know how a DAC sounds until it’s sitting right in front of you in your listening setup.
        
        Jabberwocky on 11/07/2019 - 18:21
        
        @thebadmachine: Nah mate .. i am not as experienced at all, just over 6 months into it, but burnt my fingers wasting $$$ hence learnt lesson pretty quick.
        After seeing your comment , it struck me that with the new amp i got , i can actually compare both KHADAS & ENOG2 side by side (as it has 2 inputs & a toggle switch)….
        May I say, the sound difference is not huge, but enough for me to prefer KHADAS !!!
        
        I am on the hunt for a DAC currently.
        
        I just bought an awesome deal (on a DAC AMP) so I think on the amp side I am set. But still yearning for a great DAC.
        
        When i started this topic, to now, my gear has changed completely as i sold 80% of the items and settled with :
        
        1 Tube Amp (locally made by Sydney guy Eric Chan)
        1 Solid State Class A amp (changeable opamps) — Burson FUN with all 3 opamps
        1 DAC AMP combo - Questyle CMA600i
        1 KHADAS
        1 Geshelli ENOG2 + Archel Combo
        
        And in terms of headphones, sold most & stuck to:
        
        -FOCAL Clear
        -Fostex TH610
        -Fostex T60RP
        
        Wanting to purchase an awesome Closed Back & Aeon Flow Closed , if possible soon , in addition to the DAC.
        
        thebadmachine on 11/07/2019 - 18:28
        
        @Jabberwocky: I see, I have warned others here about going the headphones route. I think listening through headphones is generally much less forgiving.
        
        I can only speak on the DAC’s so I will say I think you hit it on the nail by keeping those two (Khadas & Geshelli).
        
        Only advice I can give you is, enjoy the gear you have now (at least long enough to appreciate it all). And get your purchasing power going with small steps (appreciate the rest of your gear with one new change).
        
        I like to think I am fortunate to have little spending power. As I end up doing a lot of research without being able to buy, then when the time to buy comes around I make the right choice & appreciate it that much more.
        
        thebadmachine on 11/07/2019 - 18:14
        
        @Jabberwocky: Another interesting thing I read recently:
        Apparently AK DAC chips used to have more top-end like the Sabre ES.
        Then for the last few gens they toned it back (slightly darker), now reports are AK is bringing back the top-end from their past chips in their latest / new model chips (which some people loved) to compete with Sabre ES chips (apparently).
        
        Jabberwocky on 11/07/2019 - 18:26
        
        @thebadmachine: I had no idea until you told me now.
        
        thebadmachine on 11/07/2019 - 18:39
        
        @Jabberwocky: The AK’s still had their own unique sound, just with more top-end detail in the past.
        I have a theory on the reason I think Sabre ES sounds best, I think it depends a lot on the music I listen to.
        Most of my music collection is very light on bass content (acoustic, classical, instrumental, vocals). So I really enjoy the detail all-round with the ES, bass / lower-mids are there & detailed, just with less ‘warmth’ or ‘character’ like with other chips.
        
        If you listen to other genres (rock, electronic, pop) or more modern music in particular, I notice the bass / mids make up for much more of the track. Like with modern radio pop-music I would say a lot of new songs are almost characterised by 50% bass. In which case the ES may sound thin and lacking.
        
        My music is more like 20-30% bass (how it should be IMO as there are lows / mids / highs (33.3% for each). I can appreciate these all equally with the Sabre chip, and the balance also reveals more IMO, so you can appreciate more detail wherever it is in the frequency range.
        
        Edit: one negative of the Sabre chip, when there’s an even a slightly poor recording -you will definitely hear it.
        (Trying my best to let good music rule over recording quality)
        
        Jabberwocky on 11/07/2019 - 18:42
        
        @thebadmachine: in terms of music choice - i think we both are eyeing the same sound signature. Sounds creepy, but that is exactly how i will describe my music preference as well & collection.(the way you have)
        
        Hence FOCAL Clear is my prized possession, 'My Precious'.
        
        I haven't heard anything that comes close to dethroning it, until we hit Utopia or Stellia range ($3500+)
        
        I am more in headphone listening. I find it much more engaging and surrounding.
        
        thebadmachine on 11/07/2019 - 18:46
        
        @Jabberwocky: Makes sense (similar genres), as I think the Sabre’s bright sounding detail may be more present / overwhelming through headphones, and therefore can be troublesome on some headphones.
        (e.g. dark headphones like Audeze LCD-2 may benefit from Sabre sound, although I have also read that they also sound dry, which may be a problem with Sabre).
        
        Edit: maybe the answer to dark & dry sounding headphones is the new / up-coming AK chips.
        Also remember when I am describing the sound of Sabre it is always through speakers.
        
        Jabberwocky on 12/07/2019 - 18:47
        
        @thebadmachine: Realised how not all amps will suit the headphones…
        Did extensive testing today of Fostex T60RP with all my amps
        They literally suck with the tubes to an extent they will produce massive distortion at higher levels…
        Whereas pairing them with CMA600i (current amp tech) is amazingly beautiful….
        Did a bit of research later and found that everyone is praising and saying CMA600i is ‘partner meant to be’ for Planars…
        
        thebadmachine on 12/07/2019 - 19:01
        
        @Jabberwocky: Interesting, a bit over my head though. I am a solid-state person myself.
        I am guessing it may have something to do with the wiring of the T60RP as well, it is wired inside to optionally accept a single ended balanced cable. (I would stay away from the Tube you may be stressing something out)
        
        warning: apparently it is very risky if you mix up a single ended balanced with a normal single ended 3.5mm. You could possible damage your equipment if you plug one into the other (cause an electrical short).
  - Jabberwocky on 11/07/2019 - 01:08
    
    Support Australian companies who want to support Australians.
    
    This company sells items to 'fellow aussies' at US prices.
    Compare them to Burson, who price things lowers for Australians.
    
    Will never buy from March Audio. I am a part of different groups online and alot of us, share the same opinion and view about these (profanity) at March Audio.
    
    BTW its the same $100 DAc, khadas, buy that and the case still less than half the price compared to March Audio.
    - thebadmachine on 11/07/2019 - 09:59
      
      Yes I agree with you the price is way too high. I think it’s quite obvious people (in the community) would catch on to what internals they are using, and trying to shill it as something unique was a mistake.
      Apparently massdrop (drop.com) ran a poll / thread asking if people would buy the Khadas in a proper enclosure at around $200. Which is more of a realistic price.
      - Jabberwocky on 11/07/2019 - 13:42
        
        @thebadmachine: Khadas for $200 USD is also too expensive, even with the case.
        Khadas - $100USD = $140 AUD
        Case - 40 Euros = $60 AUD
        
        = $200 AUD = $140 US
        
        Not sure if anyone will purhcase it for $200 US
[Deactivated] on 01/07/2019 - 22:50

I got blue mo-fi and Nuraphone.
hermonski on 12/07/2019 - 17:37

Hey guys

Didn't want to start a new thread, so thought it better to ask here. Any thoughts on headphones for kids for a long-haul flight? I'm thinking ANC and volume-limited, but a bit out of my depth and would appreciate some advice.
- thebadmachine on 12/07/2019 - 18:37
  
  I think your intention to start a new thread is valid.
  Comments in this thread are about obsessive alterations to sound through different equipment.
  A bit of a stretch from advice on Kids Headphones.
- Jabberwocky on 12/07/2019 - 18:43
  
  Dude - not sure how to answer this as my experience is only with the known culprits and not sure are there kids friendly headphones and how different they are…
  all I can suggest is B&W PX & Bose QC35 (Or Bose QC30 if you want in ear)
  In all probability QC35 or QC30 will be available on Sale during upcoming Prime Day given the new Bose700 model is out..
  They should be near $250
  - thebadmachine on 12/07/2019 - 19:28
    
    Hey by the way what do you think of the KEF Space one’s on sale for $199 here.
    
    According to reviews they are just as I suspected, a decent wired headphone with the option to have ANC.
    This is the review I just read.
    In a nutshell: great sounding, and better sounding with NC off (usually the opposite for most ANC headphones).
    - Jabberwocky on 12/07/2019 - 19:48
      
      I think all ANC headphones sound better with ANC off.
      Headed about them but wouldn’t buy them personally… :
      
      They need external batteries
      
      on ear
      
      With the kind of headphones we are using talking about, I would never touch wireless
      
      Own a PX already that’s good enough for me
      - thebadmachine on 12/07/2019 - 20:21
        
        @Jabberwocky: The KEF’s are wired only and over-ear (I avoid wireless myself for SQ).
        Majority of best selling ANC specific headphones are over-ear.
        
        My understanding was with ANC specific headphones they were tuned to sound best with ANC on, as that was how they were intended to be mostly used. I think there would be a lot of unhappy customers who buy the latest Sony XM3 and find out it sounds better with ANC off..
        
        My thoughts are there is a lot of misunderstanding going on with the KEF. Buyers think it is wireless and a ANC headphone. But I think it is closer in design (& possibly sound quality) to a proper wired headphone, with the ANC feature taking less priority.
        Of course I may be wrong, but reviews seem to lean towards my theory. (There is also a wireless version of KEF Space One, the version I linked is wired only).
        
        Jabberwocky on 12/07/2019 - 23:16
        
        @thebadmachine: interesting , was not aware of their wired version.
        I think its time to meet Lachlan or Wing , at minidisc
        
        thebadmachine on 13/07/2019 - 15:02
        
        @Jabberwocky: I think I know who you are talking about at Minidisc (I saw one of their YouTube videos).
        
        thebadmachine on 22/07/2019 - 18:43
        
        @Jabberwocky: I have a wild-card headphone option for you.
        The Yamaha HPH-MT5 (yes the cheapest one, the higher models have a different sound).
        I have been waiting to get it on sale, the price dropped recently from $159 to $142 @StoreDJ and I passed thinking it could get cheaper.
        
        I thought of recommending you try it after reading this review on Amazon US.
        It is closed-back, low-impedance and the frequency response may be lacking in overall extension, but I think it will surprise you (all while being a great portable option).
        Others who have done extensive listening (with DAC’s & amps) have said only great things about it.
        I am lacking the gear to put it to a true test, so I thought you would be a better judge.
        
        Jabberwocky on 22/07/2019 - 21:30
        
        @thebadmachine: interesting …
        But where are these for $142 ?
        I will give them a try, will purchase and let you know.
        
        Someone on the review (you pointed to) compared them to T60RP and said, Yamaha's are better, while I was listening to music on T60RP.
        Now this headphone has got my attention.
        
        thebadmachine on 23/07/2019 - 13:14
        
        @Jabberwocky: They dropped to $142 a month or two ago @StoreDJ. The price is back to $159 now.
        
        thebadmachine on 24/07/2019 - 14:29
        
        @Jabberwocky: These popped up. Refurb HD600 for $399.
        Just incase you are interested in comparing, the YouTube review on the Yamaha’s I linked in the previous comment says they prefer the MT5’s to the HD600.
        
        thebadmachine on 01/08/2019 - 15:33
        
        @Jabberwocky: I just realised the Amazon review I linked was for the MT8’s (doh), annoying how Amazon bunches related product reviews together.
        Still I stand by the MT5’s, the overall consensus is that the MT5’s are superior to the MT8’s in every way for listening.
        I found some extra hidden opinions about the MT5’s in a MT8 thread.
        
        MT5 : Monitoring, Mixing, Mastering, and Listening, yes they can do it all, but not absolutely perfectly 100%, though 95%. Overall frequency signature similar to the A990Z’s, though faster, more thwack and less bloated bass, so better! Closest to the overall presentation of my Neumann K120 studio-monitor speakers, though with a couple of minor freq dips. Very close to being perceptually flat, though not technically flat.
        
        “Very close to being perceptually flat, though not technically flat.” This is close of ideal frequency response.
        Many people believe ‘ruler flat’ is ideal, but in reality ideal frequency response is more like a string hanging between two points with a tiny bit of slack (very slight gentle curve weighted towards the bottom of the frequency range).
        
        …as I say the MT8 are not for listening pleasure, they do not give a correct representation of how music was intended to be heard by the musician; the MT8's are for technical inspection only. The EQ is pushed up in the treble region and reduced in the bass region. For example I use my MT8's only for examining hiss in live recording - so I can blend hiss between two takes, this will not be heard under normal listening conditions, but as an engineer you need to hear these 'faults' in a recording - while mastering.
        
        The MT5 reveal everything that is intended in a recording with incredible clarity and speed, but unlike the MT8's the MT5's have a very accurate freq response - which I have to say is very rare these days in headphones. The MT5's are a gem in the headphone world - for listening and/or mastering, in fact every part of the freq range is exceptional - and pleasurably forward.
        
        -
        
        Thats a tough question. I have probably owned 60-70 headphones during the last 15 years. The MT5, while not perfect, gets the closest to my preffered sound signature. I would love to have an open headphone with a similar W shaped signature but nothing comes close to the MT5. As far as headphones go im covered with the Yamahas.
        
        thebadmachine on 23/08/2019 - 18:52
        
        @Jabberwocky: Hi thought it’s been long enough to ask if you had tried either the KEF or Yamaha MT5’s.
        I understand if you passed on trying both, since I expect they are a step down from your Hi-Fi tier headphones (Focal etc).
        
        Jabberwocky on 24/08/2019 - 07:00
        
        @thebadmachine: Unfortunately I haven't tried either of these. Also i dont think so anyone should judge the audio capability of a device by it's brand or price.
        I love FOCAL Clear and Stellia (will never spend for UTOPIA) or any other Focal.
        
        BTW:
        In the last few weeks I changed my strategy completely.
        I sold almost everything, since I started the thread… NOW this is my list of ownership and desire:
        
        Headphones:
        
        -FOCAL Clear
        -Aeon Flow Closed
        -Fidelio X2HR - Amazing for what they are. Emotionally attached to them, though FOCALs are much better.
        -Bowers & Wilkins PX - Travel Headphone, dont care much about audio quality.
        
        Replaced all OPEN Headphones (but Philips X2HR) with FOCAL Clears. Nothing sonically comes closer (subjectively for me) to Focal Clears, until you want to breach the $3000 barrier (which I never will)
        And heaven't heard a more pleasing closed back than Aeon FLOW Closed, so that's one ring that rules all.
        
        AKG K712 PRO (SOLD)
        
        Audio Technica ATH R70x (SOLD)
        
        Shure SRH 1540 (SOLD)
        
        AKG Q701 (SOLD)
        
        NAD Viso HP50 (Up for Sale)
        
        Fostex TH 610 (Up for Sale)
        
        Fostex T60RP (SOLD)
        
        AMPs:
        
        These 2 do the duty for me and I believe I have reached my endgame in AMPs.
        -THX AAA 789
        -Burson FUN(Vivid+Classic+Sparkos)
        
        JDS Labs ATOM (SOLD) GESHELLI Archel Pro (Up for Sale) SMSL SH-8 (SOLD)
        
        AMP & DAC Combo:
        
        Questyle CMA 600i -
        Just can't get past this machine. This I believe is pretty much the endgame for me in 1 machine — AMP/DAC Combo.
        
        DACs:
        
        -SABAJ D5 has now become the main go to DAC driving Balanced out THX AAA789.
        -Grace M900 now drives Burson Fun Amp. Also serves excellent purpose as a mobile / carry on DAC/AMP combo when travelling.
        
        Topping D10 - (SOLD) Topping D30 (SOLD) KHADAS Toneboard - Works as the main DAC unit for KEF Q100 GESHELLI ENOG2 PRO - (SOLD) SMSL SU-8 Ver2 (SOLD)
        
        DESIRED / WISHLIST:
        
        FOCAL Stellia - My new Desired Closed Back ZMF Auteur - My new Desired Open Back DT 1990 (owned & returned -- highs are too peirce'y') Focal Clear (Own it and will keep it for years) Focal Elear (No need when I have Clears) THX AAA 789 (Amazing piece of kit - OWN it now) Topping D50 (Not as good as SABAJ D5 or Grace M900) Oppo PM-3 (Aeon Flow Closed takes the throne for best closed back I have ever heard) Topping DX7 (No need with SABAJ D5 & Grace M900)
        
        thebadmachine on 24/08/2019 - 15:23
        
        @Jabberwocky:
        
        THX AAA 789 (Amazing piece of kit - OWN it now)
        
        Even though I am barely into headphones, I thought about ordering one myself, since the currrent/next drop could be the last.
        
        Topping D50 & DX7s are getting a bit old (in DAC years).
        There is the recently released D70, but apparently AK4495 & 4497(D70) still have the ‘velvet’ sound (I am interested the next gen’s ES9038Pro competing sound of possibly the AK4499 or the generation after that).
        I am thinking about trying an AKM DAC in the future, but I am waiting for the feedback on new chips, and willing to wait till prices drop, so maybe 2 years later if the price is right.
        
        Interesting you now have the Sabaj D5 which uses the high voltage chips (ES-Pro) when most of the others used mobile chips (ES-Q2M / AK-EQ).
        Apparently the Pro chips have been less popular (higher sales of mobile devices) so there is less experience with implementing them, resulting in fewer options and higher product costs.
        The SMSL D1 (another dual ES9038Pro DAC) seems to be one to avoid due to quality issues.
        
        thebadmachine on 04/03/2020 - 20:06
        
        @Jabberwocky: From my part, all this about headphones and here I am contemplating a $100 pair of headphones.
        Just thought you may find it interesting.
        Still prefer speakers over headphones, I use them only when it’s late.
nappoler on 26/07/2019 - 12:37

$79 Shanling UP2 bluetooth AMP and my phone. Good enough for me.
jasswolf on 03/08/2019 - 14:10

AFAIK, Topping DX3 Pro is the standard solid state DAC & AMP rec at the moment, at least for desktop components. Might be able to get it for for under $250 after cashback during an Aliexpress sale.
thebadmachine on 16/09/2019 - 20:12

Just thought I would give a Sabre DAC opinion update. Since I am waiting for files to copy on the computer.

I have done some extensive listening of DAC’s and picked up the minor differences between the Balanced ES9038Q2M & the older Balanced ES9018Q2C. Keep in mind the following differences are very miniscule.

The ES9038Q2M being the more recently released chip, while similar overall to the ES9018Q2C, the 9038 offers more resolution, texture & detail particularly in the top-end treble region, so the 9038 can be perceived as brighter than the 9018.
Both extend equally far in the top-end, and the 9018 still has great detail, but with less detail & texture in the top-end the 9018 can sound more ever so slightly more forward in the mids, and also it is possible that more detail in the mids can be perceived as well.
So after this I realised that I prefer the 9018 over the 9038 for certain source material & equipment.
Listening on bright headphones with recessed mids for example, I would prefer the 9018 as I would like to bring the details in the mids more forward. I still prefer the absolute detail & texture of the 9038 through speakers.
But I realised I should keep my hands on the 9018 as I know it can be paired with certain equipment to get the desired sound.
- thebadmachine on 16/09/2019 - 20:21
  
  In addition to all this, I have listened to the custom Cirrus Logic DAC chip in the iPhone SE through headphones, and mids & treble is just smoothed-over with very little texture, especially in the top-end.
  This made me think I made the right choice in skipping all the current AKM chips with ‘velvet sound’.
  As I am aware from reading up, the AKM ‘velvet sound’ chips are also well extended like Sabre, but have smoothed over the texture & detail like Cirrus Logic (although to much less of an extent on AKM I have read many AKM DAP and DAC experiences mentioning ‘smooth texture’).
  
  Texture is the key word in my original post. I must have the texture of the Sabre 9038/9018. I need to hear the hairs on the violin bow as they drag across the strings.
  I will be sticking with Sabre. Until AKM starts competing directly.
  - Jabberwocky on 06/01/2020 - 18:01
    
    @margejsimpson
    
    Couldn’t PM you hence I thought will reach out here…
    I am building 2 HT setups:
    
    1-
    Q Acoustics 3020i x 4
    Q Acoustics 3090 Centre
    Paradigm DSP 3100v2
    Yamaha IC600 (Atmos)
    Yamaha RXV685
    = $2800
    
    2-
    Undecided (as don’t want to spend beyond $2k) room is 2 side open with 2 walled
    Bose Acoustimass 10
    Denon X5500
    =$1600
    
    Question:
    -Bose or anything else in that budget (under $2k with receiver)
    If yes, what & what price??
    
    -Can room 1 setup be better that what I have purchased in the same money ?
    If yes, what & $$ ?
    
    Thanks
    - thebadmachine on 06/01/2020 - 18:14
      
      I would like to give you advice, but have very limited experience / knowledge of home theatre.
      
      So I think someone else will be able to give you better advice.
      
      I think you were ok to post the above (I am building 2 HT setups: …) in the recent subwoofer deal.
      
      I may have posted deals on home theatre products in the past, from my part I am completely satisfied with 2.0 stereo for movies (and think 2.1 is sufficient).
      - Jabberwocky on 06/01/2020 - 18:42
        
        @thebadmachine: thanks for replying :)
    - g1 on 20/01/2020 - 22:43
      
      This may be late, but I had a listen to Q Acoustics 3010i and they were fantastic little speakers. I just wanted to keep listening to them. I liked them much more that KEF Q150 (both smaller end of the speaker range). If 3020i are even better (from what I read, they are) then that would be a great system for a small/medium room.
      
      Have you listened to Sony STR-DN1080? Have you also listened to B&W ASW610? (Has been as low as $800 during Black Friday).
Jabberwocky on 06/01/2020 - 18:00

..
- thebadmachine on 20/01/2020 - 19:53
  
  By the way read & watched a bit about the AK4499 Topping D90.
  Looks to be very tasty, only the prices are too high.
  Looking forward to other AK4499 DAC’s to come (and the price drops on the early products).
  - Jabberwocky on 20/01/2020 - 20:07
    
    My Questyle CMA600i has AK4490 , love it compared to many others. AK4499 should (hopefully) be even better.
    - thebadmachine on 20/01/2020 - 20:11
      
      Due to its design some are saying it will be the best ever for implementation (best ever AK DAC I assume).
      
      Edit: still reading about it.
      One review on the D90 I watched on YouTube was by Soundnews if you are interested.
    - thebadmachine on 11/05/2020 - 17:17
      
      To reignite and old thread,
      I have been reading up and researching DAC’s again.
      
      I know I expressed my interest in the Topping D90 (~AUD$1200), but I came across another DAC/AMP called the Holo Audio Cyan (AUD$1800) which is an R2R design with headphone amp built-in.
      https://cruxaudio.com.au/products/cyan-discrete-resistor-lad…
      
      The Holo Audio Spring 2 Kitsune R2R DAC has been well received, and the Cyan seems to be a small version of it.
      The Cyan also measures well (unusual for R2R) on audiosciencereview if that matters to you.
      
      Currently both the D90 & the Cyan are out of budget / out of reach.
      But I thought you might find reading about them interesting.
      
      Have you owned a R2R Ladder DAC before? If so do you have any feedback on it? Like how it compares to a mid to high-end Sabre / AKM DAC for example.
      
      Notes: reports I have read indicate an R2R DAC sounds closer to an AKM DAC rather than a Sabre DAC.
      e.g. a warmer more organic tone with less forward highs.
      - thebadmachine on 12/05/2020 - 19:58
        
        @thebadmachine:
        
        The Cyan also measures well (unusual for R2R) on audiosciencereview if that matters to you.
        
        Oops I was looking at the Holo Audio Spring measurements.
        Edit to: “The Cyan also measures decently for an R2R.”
  - g1 on 20/01/2020 - 22:34
    
    $1000 DAC is high. None the less it measures and reviews well. Hopefully the price comes down, $250 or lower would be much better, but that price may not happen due to component costs.
    - thebadmachine on 21/01/2020 - 16:00
      
      I think expecting a $1000 DAC to be reduced to $250 brand-new is too much (maybe second hand $250 is possible).
      
      I think more likely different newer models with AK4499 will be released at a lower entry-price eventually (by that time there will be 1 or 2 more new chips out & AK4499 will be considered “old”).
      - g1 on 21/01/2020 - 16:33
        
        @thebadmachine: I agree that it won't come down to that for a while. I mean when it becomes "old" it would still be a good DAC based on the reviews, and hopefully comes down to to a fraction of current price, but I am not holding out for that.
        
        I am curious if other implementations of that DAC will do as good of a job.
        
        thebadmachine on 21/01/2020 - 16:49
        
        @g1:
        
        I am curious if other implementations of that DAC will do as good of a job.
        
        Yes very interested to see a Topping D50S / SMSL SU-8 ($250-$350) equivalent using the same chip.
Dave Id on 21/01/2020 - 17:41

My hearing is at least as good as the testing equipment that audiologists use.
Usually freaks them out.
Last guy could not believe that I was 65,five and a half years ago.

Main gear …. Pioneer AVR,Aaron ATS-5 fronts with matching center,Wharfedale floorstanders as rears.

Enjoy listening to FLACs on XDUOO X3 players using AKG K712 PROs.

Sometimes,late at night,the K712s are rigged up to an Epson TW5300 projector using a Topping NX2 portable amp.

Highly recommend XDUOO FLAC players,AKG K712 PRO (and Topping NX2). $750 well spent.
- thebadmachine on 21/01/2020 - 19:34
  
  XDUOO FLAC players,AKG K712 PRO (and Topping NX2).
  
  I am an owner of Chi-Fi as well (mainly hard wired equipment user e.g. speakers, less so portable / headphones). I have full confidence in their sound-reproduction, with the only apprehension being long-term product-life.
  That being said my main SMSL SU-8 DAC has seen more than a year’s ownership / use and shows only great reliability & function.
  
  The only thing I notice sometimes is when controlling the volume with the remote, once in awhile it moves an extra step, although I attribute this to the sensing angle of the IR receiver, therefore I think it is due to using remote at too steep an angle, and the unit falsely thinks I am holding the volume button down for a second.
  In saying this I think the unit will last many years to come.
  - Dave Id on 22/01/2020 - 06:03
    
    Had the XDUOO X3 players for a few years. Very happy.
    
    SMSL AD18 amp powers q3020 speakers in the kitchen.Neat space saver set up.Sounds great.Keeps the cockatoo happy. He loves bopping along.Has his own tastes in music.

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