Will You Let Airport Border Agents Access Your Phone & Laptop ?

dcep on 06/05/2019 - 19:39
Last edited 06/05/2019 - 20:00

Maybe it's just me living under the rock but just saw the news on some guy got his phone searched and denied entry after controversial video was found.

So I've looked it up and apparently border agents can confiscate your phone/laptop should you choose not to unlock/login the device for them to search.

Is that right? Will you just simply unlock your phone and let them browse whatever they want?
I mean some won't even let your partner unlock your phone let alone a stranger.

And the fact that even police needs warrant to exercise that, while border agents can do without one seems bizarre.

Travel

Comments

    • minklet on 07/05/2019 - 12:00
      +5

      "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear"

      https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/the-fallacy-of…

    • chriise on 07/05/2019 - 17:33
      +6

      nothing to hide, nothing to fear

      This is despicable propaganda designed to convince you to strip yourself of your own rights.

    • ssyl9 on 08/05/2019 - 14:57
      +3

      So you will gladly show nude photos of yourself/wife to random strangers?

      Can you please post them here?

      This is just an example of something that people might have on their devices but not willing to share.

      • laser on 08/05/2019 - 17:10
        -1

        Why would you keep nude photos of your wife on your phone? What happens if the phone is lost?

        • ssyl9 on 08/05/2019 - 18:19

          I personally don't but I don't see why not?

          You do know phones have locks on them right?

        • Strahany on 08/05/2019 - 20:12
          +3

          Because people have a lock, for which only they have a key…..until ridiculous laws like this are pushed through.

        • Homr on 09/05/2019 - 16:49

          Why not, I miss my wife's lovely body when she goes away on business trips. Is that a crime?

  • pegaxs on 06/05/2019 - 20:20
    +44

    Back up phone to cloud, wipe, take through customs, get it searched, get to destination, install cloud backup. Simples.

    And people saying "Well, I, for one, am glad they are stopping criminals/pedos/terrorists/drug traffickers/whatever". Yeah… I'm not buying it. These people are usually smart enough or have others smart enough to hide what they are doing and those that get busted are the fringe dwelling idiots that have no real value in organised crime networks. The people they are likely to catch out with these methods are not the ones they need to be focused on.

    • outlander on 06/05/2019 - 20:57
      -2

      Is it possible to install something, either software or hardware based, into the phone that would compromise it?
      It would be quite an endevour, and you'd have to have unique methods for every phone on the market, but I think the chinese could pull something like that off.

      • Clear on 06/05/2019 - 20:59
        +3

        For Android you're at greater risk. If you have root then it's very easy for them to do so, otherwise they can resort to turning on dev options and using the Android SDK to load exploits. Alternatively when paired with root something like this can really turn the tables on them.

        • Kangal on 09/05/2019 - 00:11

          How do you mean turn the tables on them?
          I know of Cerberus… just not sure what you meant in your last sentence.

          • Clear on 09/05/2019 - 00:17

            @Kangal: Set it to record video, audio etc prior to handing it over.

            • Kangal on 09/05/2019 - 00:36
              +1

              @Clear: Still don't know how this helps you.
              If you have incriminating stuff, its useless for defence.
              If you're innocent, then you have a pointless recording of them.
              If you're innocent and find them doing something wrong (ie/ lets say they rubbed your phone on their anus), the recording still doesn't help you prevent that, nor prevent you from unknowingly touching it. And despite that, its likely an illegal recording, so can't be used as evidence.

              The only solution I can think of, to ensure your privacy, is you have to become a politician.
              "If you can't beat them, join them" …and that's a shitty circumstance to be in :(

              • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/05/2019 - 09:16

                @Kangal: Just be very, very careful recording someone, who you've given your phone to willingly, without their consent. Tad different than someone stealing your phone and recording them.

    • Halo375 on 06/05/2019 - 20:57
      +10

      If I was a border agent and found someone with a completely blank phone I would be MUCH more interested in them than normal.

      • josh676 on 07/05/2019 - 12:03
        +6

        Yeah right, draw an inference from nothing being on a phone? Plenty of frequent travellers would have 'travel phones'. Plenty of people work in fields where corporate espionage or whatever is a thing, so it would not be that uncommon.

        • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2019 - 22:20
          +3

          so it would not be that uncommon.

          You'd be suprised .

          I got stopped once at the airport when re-entering the country and questioned as to why my phone only had 4 phone numbers on it and no history of any calls or txt having been received or made. They also questioned my lack of a business laptop.

          They were polite enough, I guess. So was I. Protocol is to call the corporate lawyers, so I did.

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/05/2019 - 09:17

            @[Deactivated]: They're trained to ask about anything not standard (in their eyes ofc). Doesn't mean anything. They're just hoping once in a while someone will take the bait or panic.

            • [Deactivated] on 09/05/2019 - 18:10

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Like I said, they were polite enough. No one gloved up and said "Please bend over and cough, Dr JJB." The only inconvenience was that I was held up for over an hour early on a sunday morning and it ruined the surprise that I was planning for the wife and kids.

    • funnysht on 07/05/2019 - 19:38
      +3

      Easier thing would be to smear some shit over the keyboard…

    • Zachary on 15/05/2019 - 18:08

      …then you would be trusting in the cloud company service to not peek into your backed up phone data……unless said cloud company is actually your own in which case you have nothing to worry about…..

  • Strahany on 06/05/2019 - 20:26
    +30

    This won’t stop anything. The truly dangerous members of this scene will have a high degree of OpSec, such that searches like this will turnover nothing. The only people who will be caught are the low-tier members who are stupid enough that they’d have been caught, eventually, anyway.

    Security theatre was pushing the boundaries when it’s most invasive component was a body scan. Given the type of content that are on personal computers/phones nowadays, this is not at all appropriate, considering how little they’ll catch.

    • Herbse on 07/05/2019 - 16:46

      The OP said he saw the show where someone was denied entry because of a video they found. Sounds like it worked

      • Strahany on 07/05/2019 - 19:58
        +6

        This person had 1 video, which was not pornographic in nature. Could’ve been a video of a parent smacking their child for all we know.

        As I said, the people who get caught will be the low level people, not the ones creating and distributing the content; just like it happened here (hell, he may not even be a “low level” person, given it wasn’t pornography).
        Labelling this as “it worked” would be like making strip searches compulsory under the guise of stopping drug smugglers, and then proclaiming a victory when someone who forgot they had a pill in their pocket from the night before their flight gets caught.

        • ThadtheChad on 08/05/2019 - 12:22
          +1

          Very vehemently agree with this. The way they've dressed up the news to sound like they busted something utterly vile, but reading a bit deeper you realise it was something more pedestrian.

          This. is. security. theatre.

    • idonotknowwhy on 09/05/2019 - 08:05

      This won’t stop anything. The truly dangerous members of this scene will have a high degree of OpSec, such that searches like this will turnover nothing.

      This is the best sentence in the thread! I'd also add that it's going to inconvenience a lot of innocent people.

      I've been telling people variations of this since Conroy's original internet filter, which leaks revealed was also blocking wikileaks, legal porn, and euthanasia sites.

      Over the years I got sick of trying to explain this to people whenever there was a censorship or encryption-weakening legislation.

  • Daabido on 06/05/2019 - 20:30
    +14

    I've got nothing to hide. I am glad our new Chinese overlords will track my every movement. I will be a good citizen so I am allowed to go on planes and trains and automobiles.

    • outlander on 06/05/2019 - 20:51
      +22

      You didn't finish that sentence with Praise the Divine Leader. You obviously harbor dangerous unconcious feelings towards goodness and light.
      Off to the re-education camps for you

      Praise the Divine Leader

      • TerryJustTerry on 08/05/2019 - 08:25
        +3

        His family probably feel the same way, to be safe we should send them too.

        Praise the Divine Leader

      • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2019 - 14:10

        I thought those Re-education camps are for Muslim only.
        Offer they to learn a skill and then a job after training.

      • abb on 08/05/2019 - 14:21
        +5

        @outlander:
        There are no re-education camps, that is a propaganda lie concocted by our enemies!
        Coincidentally, you are required to attend 365 days of vocational training at our facility to enhance your skills and future employment opportunities. Accommodation will be provided.

        In the Divine Leader's Grace,
        Regional Vocational Education Coordinator.

        • outlander on 08/05/2019 - 14:30
          +3

          Noo! I just came back from the vocational training! I'm all trained, I don't have any bad thoughts anymore!
          I love the leader, I love the leader!

          You can't do this to me!

          Nooooooo..

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/05/2019 - 09:19

        Glory to Arstotzka

    • fossilfuel on 06/05/2019 - 21:00
      +3

      Your social credit score is now at: 1500 points

      Donate another $500 or save a starving child to unlock the cruise feature

  • [Deactivated] on 06/05/2019 - 21:23
    -2

    apparently border agents can confiscate your phone/laptop should you choose not to unlock/login the device for them to search.

    Answers your own question.

    Is that right? Will you just simply unlock your phone and let them browse whatever they want?

    • sghetti on 08/05/2019 - 12:22

      Not sure why you're negged. Asked 'will you'? Well… you don't have a choice. Give them access or incur a large fine or prison.

      • outlander on 08/05/2019 - 14:33

        will you simply.

        The choice to comply or not with something you disagree with seems binary at first, but there are many levels to it.

        • sghetti on 08/05/2019 - 14:59

          Well it's a yes or no answer. One hands removes all privacy (which I don't agree with) and one will have you detained and questioned.

  • Aerith-Waifu on 06/05/2019 - 21:26
    -3

    My question is:

    Why would they look into your phone unless they already have something on you?

    Last 4 or 5 times when I returning to Australia I didn't even get my bag scanned once………They just let me go out:)

    • kahn on 06/05/2019 - 22:02
      +43

      Authorities want to have the power to hassle people like human rights lawyers and advocates, independent journalists, whistleblowers, etc. Authorities are concerned about information control and not having their power threatened.

      You are an obedient citizen, so you won't feel the boot of your masters. Good for you.

    • [Deactivated] on 06/05/2019 - 22:47
      +18

      My wife and I have been keeping tabs on getting "random" explosives testing. We fly a fair bit.

      Definitely north of 90%.

      When I fly, I wear pajamas and a memory foam neck pillow to the airport. I think they're on the look out for the most comfortable suicide bomber.

      • theHMASfriendship on 07/05/2019 - 06:18

        It's timing more than anything.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/05/2019 - 11:33
        +1

        Lol last year I "dawdled" purposely for 10-20 seconds with my carry on bag, zipping, unzipping, to avoid being picked out for a random explosives swab after having it Xrayed. Waited until another traveller was pointed aside before heading off with my bag.

        Customs officer noticed and instructed another officer to take me aside. Won't be doing that again :(

        • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2019 - 11:42
          +7

          That's suspicious behaviour. Haha.

          I was just looking comfortable AF. I mean… why would a suicide bomber have a neck pillow. I'm certain they're not worried about a neck ache the next day.

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/05/2019 - 15:29

            @[Deactivated]: Trust me, I learnt my lesson!

          • bobbified on 07/05/2019 - 19:50
            +2

            @[Deactivated]:

            I mean… why would a suicide bomber have a neck pillow.

            The bomb might be in the pillow. It'll take the head off first to ensure certain death! :P

            • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2019 - 19:54
              +6

              @bobbified: Memory C4. Everlasting comfort.

      • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2019 - 22:23

        I wear pajamas and a memory foam neck pillow to the airport.

        Your poor wife.

        • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2019 - 23:33
          +2

          Why? She has her own neck pillow.

      • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2019 - 04:25

        When I fly, I wear pajamas

        Even on domestic flights? Heh.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2019 - 12:29
          +3

          Its Australia, we are so dressed down that almost everyone looks like they are in PJs.

          Example - UGG boots in public = PJs in public.

          In my eyes, domestic flights look like a slumber party… not the sexy kind… Sometimes.

    • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2019 - 17:34
      +1

      I've had a day where I've been randomly explosive tested twice as well as body scanned… I must have looked extra dodgy that day. 7/10 times I get the random explosives scan.

      At the port coming back in one day, they were not all that busy so they were taking aside everyone and meticulously going through everyone's bags manually (no x-ray machine), also had them try and unlock my tablet as well.

      There will be heaps of people going through with things and not checked, and heaps of people checked that have nothing that get the full treatment. Otherwise, they'd never find anything because 9/10 people they find things on they have nothing on 'before' the search.

    • veej on 07/05/2019 - 17:59
      +1

      Meh, I got felt up by a TSA agent when I was trying to come back from the USA.

      I'm far from a terrorist and it was humiliating to be pulled out of line to get groped.
      It's the only time I've been out of Australia, I think they were trying to make me not come back.

      My problem with these new laws is that they treat everyone as guilty by default. The same thing applies to being bag searched at a shop. I did nothing wrong, I don't like being asked to show my bags because by doing so they assume I'm a thief before they are convinced otherwise when I go along with the theatrics.

      • khomeini on 08/05/2019 - 09:13
        +5

        What makes you far from a terrorist? I'm far from one too but people's perceptions are different.

        I have almost always (I think two exceptions) been singled out to be "randomly searched" at most departing airports in Australia.

        The fact I have a beard, with brown skin & an arabic name probably makes me an easy choice - mind they wouldn't know my name if they're just randomly visually looking at someone.

        The worst one was when it was my son & I travelling oversea's (I forget where - probably NZ or Malaysia) and we're at the electronic gates. Imagine being with a 4yr old and explaining them to just walk up to the gates with his passport, put it there & stand still for the camera. He gets okay to pass, I have to take his passport & tell him to walk through & wait alone for me whilst I go through this process- I do the same things - everything okay. Then the guy at the front sees me and points me to a queue for further testing - all whist my 4yr old is standing by himself further away as you can't be too close to the customs counters & trying to look at whats going on. Luckily I can see him during this giving him thumbs up etc… 5-10 mins later when I get to the counter - standard questions and more checks then "why do you have two passports"- "well i was with my son who i had to help, it's his if you want to see it." no response and further checking of whatever it is…the arrogance was disgusting to witness.

        Don't get me started on these random checks… both my father and I when travelling to a holiday in Asia had our names called out over the speakers for security checks in Mlbn airport. That was pretty "random" I thought…

        And we're not talking about the bag swabs, that's almost a given, these are at customs.

        Yes sure I can understand that people are scared but nearly every single time for someone who fits your algorithm is not fun to experience. Hopefully they can fix that at some stage - yeah right ;)

        I look forward to my upcoming trip to the US. Should be fun.

  • Diji1 on 06/05/2019 - 22:30
    +17

    And the fact that even police needs warrant to exercise that, while border agents can do without one seems bizarre.

    Why?

    Australia has been turned into a police state since 2001 while idiots talk about China.

    A vote for Liberal or Labour is a vote for the security state to continue to abuse your human rights.

    • altomic on 07/05/2019 - 09:16
      +1

      only Clive Palmer can lead us to true freedom.

      • Baysew on 07/05/2019 - 09:32
        +11

        On his Titanic II.

        • funnysht on 07/05/2019 - 19:42

          haha ! great!

      • Ti-au on 07/05/2019 - 09:33
        +2

        At this point it might even be true….. :/

        • locknuts on 08/05/2019 - 18:03

          I'm considering voting for him since yesterday I found out the libs are talking about giving up to 5 years prison for trolling online that offends people. Ridiculous! And I have been laughing at the guys atvwork saying they'll vote for Clive….

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/05/2019 - 11:34

        @altomic please please please tell me /sarcasm was implied.

        • altomic on 08/05/2019 - 08:29
          +1

          /s

    • Ughhh on 07/05/2019 - 12:37
      +2

      Australia has been turned into a police state

      Have you seen some of the forum post?? People dont want to protect themselves, dont want to help themselves, expect others to do the work for them- thats why we're a police state. If it weren't for policing, those people would be bankrupted or dead.

      • outlander on 07/05/2019 - 19:52

        Exactly right, except you got the cause and effect switched around.

  • bigticket on 06/05/2019 - 23:16
    +4

    Just be aware that if you are targeted for phone/tablet/laptop access and you refuse, some countries will confiscate said items. Likewise if access is granted and there are illegal images or video, said items are confiscated.

    And we are not talking about terrorists or pedophiles in general. Most Australians would have content that some countries would find offensive/illegal, potentially leading to these devices been confiscated.

    Happy holidays.

    • Ti-au on 07/05/2019 - 09:34

      I guess a boon for the IT dept of customs in those countries.

      free $1k iphones here we come!

      • realfancyman on 07/05/2019 - 23:16

        Anyone know what happens to the confiscated items?

        • Ti-au on 08/05/2019 - 14:04
          +1

          probably sold.

  • FeRGan on 07/05/2019 - 01:37
    +2

    I wonder When the next false flag will happen so that even more of our rights will be justly taken from us.

  • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2019 - 04:48
    +3

    I'm still getting over how they ripped the cylon cover with lenticular eye of my battlestar galactica boxset during a search.

    • Ti-au on 07/05/2019 - 09:35

      :'(

    • Zachary on 15/05/2019 - 18:08

      rip gg….sucks to get a nice pristine boxset only for it be screwed up by those people….

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 07/05/2019 - 05:47

    I think it's the same deal with the police. Except they'll stay you for denying then access.

    Again, I think they need probable cause.

    Encrypt phone. Turn phone off - forget passcode.

  • tcentral on 07/05/2019 - 09:03

    I worked at the airport and was surprised at how many passengers were turned around due to child pornography being discovered on electronic devices.

    • Loopholio on 07/05/2019 - 17:20
      +2

      What? How many were there? Was it just pictures of their kids or something nasty?
      I feel like I would have seen this on one of the airport shows.

  • Baysew on 07/05/2019 - 09:45
    +1

    Here is an article written in 2018, before this recent event.

    Can airport authorities search your phone or computer?

    And here is link to the story of Thursday's event.

    Indian tourist lands at Perth airport, refused entry to Australia over 'abhorrent' image

  • Peck on 07/05/2019 - 09:56
    -5

    Do they have the right to open a 'book' in your possession? Of course they do. Substitute 'book' for 'iphone' or 'laptop'.

    • funnysht on 07/05/2019 - 19:44
      +4

      like saying do they have a right to come into westfields? yes, so why not your home?

    • Never Pay RRP on 08/05/2019 - 00:00
      +1

      Last time I checked no one could use a "book" to access someone's bank accounts, credit card details, emails, passwords, confidential files (e.g. payslips, financial details).
      But I guess you'll be fine, since your computer/phone is equivalent to a book in your usage…

    • ssyl9 on 08/05/2019 - 18:24

      Do they have the right to open a 'book' in your possession? Of course they do. Substitute 'book' for 'iphone' or 'laptop'

      Do they have the right to put their hands in your 'bag' to search for illegal items? Of course they do. Substitute 'bag' for 'anus'

      Do you now see the flaw of your logic?

  • boomramada on 07/05/2019 - 10:23
    -7

    I don't see the point of this thread, you try to get into a country, they have right to ask whatever they like.
    For your fingerprints, access to your phone or laptop.
    And if you try to hide or refuse anything.
    They have right to refuse entry and send you back. EOT

    • petry on 07/05/2019 - 11:39
      +10

      so you're an Australian coming back to au, trying to come home, and you think the border patrol have the right to refuse you access, and to send u back to another country?

      • boomramada on 07/05/2019 - 12:07
        -4

        These search usually for visitors but if you are an Australian, they lock you up then get a court order.

        • petry on 07/05/2019 - 13:56
          +9

          So they lock you up to get a court order to force access to your devices in Australia whenever they feel like it, and you think that's fine?

            • petry on 07/05/2019 - 14:29
              +3

              @boomramada: why are you calling me paranoid for asking your opinion on a reasonable question?

              • boomramada on 07/05/2019 - 14:48
                -2

                @petry: To me, you seems bit paranoid or try to hide something. That's just my opinion.
                When I'm entering a country, I respect their rules and regulation.

                • petry on 07/05/2019 - 14:58
                  +3

                  @boomramada: and what did I say exactly to warrant those unpleasant accusations?

                  I see you're based in Canberra and have made nearly 2 and half thousand comments…

    • petry on 07/05/2019 - 11:41
      +1

      I suspect not all countries would find what you thought to be inoffensive as acceptable.

    • Vote for Pedro on 07/05/2019 - 20:53
      +4

      What do you mean go back home? Sydney?

    • Never Pay RRP on 08/05/2019 - 00:05

      I think the point being made is that terrorists (or whoever is being targeted) would very likely know how to get around these restrictions (e.g. wipe phone/laptop and restore after arrival). To them it is not an imposition, since they really do have something to hide. Hence the only inconvenience is people who don't want to go through this hassle, who would presumably not be terrorists.

    • ssyl9 on 08/05/2019 - 15:20
      +1

      Some of us have work and have confidential client details

      Some of us have lives and have sexy photo exchanges with spouse

      Some of us have important password/financial info

      Not everything that cant be shared is offensive.

      Border control people are still human and there are 0 guarantee the above will not get leaked if they have access.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/05/2019 - 11:36

    I wipe my phone and laptop before international travel these days. It's the times we live in. I don't want to be without my devices at my destination.

    Refusing to give access with likely lead to a verrrry long detainment or your devices confiscated with no ETA for return.

    • Strahany on 07/05/2019 - 11:54
      +3

      This is seriously making me consider doing the same.

      -Backup to cloud
      -Wipe phone
      -Put pertinent travel information on the phone
      -Travel
      -Restore from cloud over WiFi once arrived
      -Repeat

      I can at least see a modicum of logic in wanting to raid visitor’s personal data (the key word being modicum, and I still greatly oppose it). But performing this on any returning Australian citizen is just a thinly-veiled subversion of the proper warrant processes which would be required of the police once you’ve crossed over an arbitrary line through customs.

      If a law allows our rights, as citizens of this country, to be violated because we’re yet to cross some imaginary line, and the sole reason why we haven’t crossed said line is because some minimally-trained “Officer” decides to prevent us from crossing, then it’s either inherently stupid, or inherently evil

      I would support some form of pseudo-warrant process, such as a tip off from the country from which you’re departing to customs, and therefore acting on that. But that would be a bare minimum.

      • petry on 07/05/2019 - 14:01
        +1

        14 eyes eavesdropping unfortunately makes this a shared right to harass for whatever reason one of the countries involved wants.

        Everyone of the 14 does what America wants - for us that means being an Australian no longer entitles you to Australian legal protections - even in Australia. Sad times.

        The liberals made this situation far far worse only recently.

        • relentless on 07/05/2019 - 22:07

          If they clone you drive, can't they still access deleted data? You could use a spare hard drive or device as others have suggested.

          • ThadtheChad on 08/05/2019 - 12:27

            @relentless: There's a lot of ways around it. Just use bitlockertogo or veracrypt containers to secure the really confidential data.

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