AmEx - Velocity Points Query

SaberX on 12/03/2019 - 17:16
Last edited 12/03/2019 - 17:19

With the recent bonus points for converting my amex platinum edge cred card ending 15 march i was wondering if anyonr had any sage advice. I'd like to tranafer before the mid april amex deval and close my card pre end of March which is when they usually slug me my credit card annual fee….

The issue is i have little experience with reward point travels and so i cant figure out where to stash my points. Should i just move it to velocity?? I know others say go the krisflyer points for singapore airlines but i have no idea of my future travel plans as i have europe next feb/march so leave etc is pretty much shot for next yr or so. With krisflyer expiring after 3 years i was worried about getting caught pants down.

I tried a few test flight reward searches overseas but all the flights are low availability for virgin redemptions and even then given 1000 amex ascent is $7 for cred card credits and they have occasional 15% bonuses when i work out the dollar value of the reward flights it almost seems identical to receivinf the credit card credits back on my statement. At least thats cold hard cash.

But everyone states points on flights are way better value equivalent than credits back. I just cant seem to see it?? Am i missing something??

Have about 110k points on the plat edge…. where would most hedge their bets in stashing their points to? Velocity? Krisflyer??

Edit: re the europe trip have about 340k qantas points which we planning to 280k biz class round the world ticket trip it. Not sure if this affect the above decision… woulda been nice to tf amex to qantas and at least have everything in one spot.

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Comments

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 12/03/2019 - 18:17

    Have you booked your Europe trip yet with those Qantas points yet? Getting business class award seats on those 280K can be difficult and you need to be looking/booking right now.

    With the Edge points, ideally send them to Singapore. IF you have a Kris Flyer account, you can search for seats even if you haven't transferred any points across - so you can search before pulling the trigger and sending them across.

    The best value redemption I have booked several times using Singapore points is Australia to French Polynesia in ECONOMY class flying Air New Zealand. It is 25,000 round trip to French Polynesia when airfares are normally $1500 return from the east coast. That said, if you go to French Polynesia - you must go to Bora Bora - which is heaven/magically/paradise. You will need to be saving now for the over water villas though :D

    Otherwise, if you have no other option with those Singapore points; try a round trip to Asia in business class - just because you can.

    • bohn on 12/03/2019 - 18:47

      where do you book that flight from using krisflyer points?
      nothing comes up trying to redeem on singaporeair.com

      • jumpjam on 12/03/2019 - 20:05

        You need to open up a free Krisflyer Account first https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/ppsclub-krisflyer/registr…
        Once registered, log in. From menu select book flights and then "redeem flights" button on screen. There is usually pretty good availability with Krisflyer.

        • bohn on 12/03/2019 - 20:35

          yeh I have an account and use that quite a bit.
          it just doesn't show any flights there.
          MEL-PPT
          matrix.itasoftware.com shows the NZ air flights though.

    • SaberX on 13/03/2019 - 03:01

      I do have a krisflyer account. But my issue is whilst singapore air tends to have better redemption rates and bang for buck i have no idea where or when i am going to travel and use it. So i am just wondering if given the 3 year expiry issue if im better ofd plonking it into velocity?

      That said is velocity in isolation by itself still reasonable to get value gor money seats on flights vs redeeming the points merely for credit card statement rebates?

      With europe no we havent.. we'd be looking at weeks so mid feb ending end of march so our return flights wouldnt be open yet. We're base tier qantas, i thought this wouldnt be open yet??

      That said we were going wintrr time and more scandinavia. Maybe through japan and london as a rtw ticket so was hoping the availability of seats is alot better in this case for biz??

      Was hoping to decide on cities and destinations this next week or two as it sounds complicated with how everyone is saying to outsource it to 3rd party agents who do it for say a small fee.

  • djkelly69 on 13/03/2019 - 09:39

    What about transferring to Asia Miles (Cathay)? Can then look at getting their version of the OneWorld Classic Award to go along with your Qantas one, and try and get the same or very similar itineraries. Theirs is based on distance travelled, but from memory I think it is something like 190k points for J.

    • SaberX on 13/03/2019 - 13:13

      Thing is i never use these asia miles or krisflyer regularly. I just happened to fly cathay back in 2016. Just wondering if by plonking into asia miles or krisflyer i have no idea what future airlines i could use or use in conjunction with either the qantas europe trip in feb 2020. Or for future travels. So unsure if safest hedge is velocity program and stashing in there?

      Does asia miles expire like krisflyer and is flight choice and availability any good in comparison?

  • starburstyellow on 13/03/2019 - 13:43

    Transfer to Krisflyer is definitely the best option for you. If for whatever reason you still not going anywhere in the next 3 years, you could just offer to sell the krisflyer pts.

    According to your status, you are based in Perth. Im too based in Perth. We are the lucky people in Australia to have the best rates for SQ. i.e. Perth to Singapore 72000 return in J. Or Perth to Hong Kong/Taiwan (also via Singapore) is 72000.

    • SaberX on 14/03/2019 - 03:22

      Yeap Perth based. If you dont go anywhere in 3 yrs can you not just tf to velocity ? Or is the transfer rate from krisflyer to velocity not great??

      Those fares you quoted are return economy are they??

      Would the virgin affiliatrd networks provide better access flying to/from south east asia etc??

      Presume perth to new zealand trips would be best suited for virgin rather than singapore airlines also?

      • starburstyellow on 14/03/2019 - 10:16

        You could transfer to velocity but if u will loose a huge chunk of it. Each time you transfer back and fourth you loose about 40%.Selling it would be better.

        Sorry I should have been clear. J is code for business and fare above is return.

        I personally prefer flying Singapore Airlines and by transferring to krisflyer yields you a better inventory of their planes. Velocity don't get much dibs on SQ flights unfortunately.

        Unsure about Perth to NZ as have never taken Air NZ before but there are guides out there talking about it.

        • SaberX on 14/03/2019 - 11:49

          Tbh for the 5 hr flight time im not too fussed about a business class flight. Id more want to use it in a usa or europe or nz directed flight. With selling krisflyer though is it legal even to sell or like qantas etc. Is it illegal?

          Can one book for a partner using your own krisflyer points so we both could do return?

          The other issue is only 110 000 points probably means running out of points at some stage for some flights or trying to do two persons. Can you pay for shortfall in points as i know qantas etc. Top up of points seems like daylight robbery.

          • starburstyellow on 14/03/2019 - 13:03

            @SaberX: True, but using the example flying to HK or Taiwan, its 5 1/2 h + 4 h 50 min for the same amount of points to Singapore.

            Selling any pts is not legal, but there are workarounds that you can do that makes it 100% legal.

            Yes, you can nominate a partner (or anyone really, hint: this is where it becomes legal) to fly using your points. I do this for my wife all the time.

            Yes 110K is a funny number to be left with. Yes you can pay for the shortfall with SQ, but as you said its very exp. You could just simply open another CC card to get the short fall e.g. St George card.

            • SaberX on 14/03/2019 - 13:51

              @starburstyellow: I agree those rates for 2 flights is very good. 1 krisflyer mile is 1 amex ascent point i assume??, as their reward system is based in miles not points? Can I check with krisflyer example routes tonight and miled required in order to compare to velocity??

              I presume the 15% velocity bonuses are based on transfer date not arrival into velocity so if i transfer tomorrow on 15th i will still get the bonus tf??

              Are st george cards the only other reward card that issues bonus points transferrable to krisflyer?? Seems like all credit card sign on bonuses seem pretty much qantas or velocity only?

              So is the "proper" way that people do the deal essentially booking it on behalf and receiving due compensation back?? Abit of trust on both ends? I presume the same holds true for qantas and velocity?

              • starburstyellow on 14/03/2019 - 14:09

                @SaberX: Yes 1kff:1Accent for now. You have one month from now until it devalues.

                More info of amex devaluation here: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/416422

                Not sure what you mean with "as their reward system is based in miles not points?". SQ redemptions are calculated by region. That's why flying to Singapore, or to Hong Kong (via Singapore) is the same amount of pts.

                Yes you can create an account and check today using dummy dates. You do my need the pts in your account to query.

                I presume so too that the 15% bonus is calculated as of date of transfer.

                St George doesn't transfer to krisflyer directly. It goes from altitude to krisflyer. Similar to how you can get a card that earns velocity, then convert to krisflyer.

                Not sure what you mean with proper way.

      • theoracle30 on 14/03/2019 - 10:44

        As ex-Perth traveller, Perth to NZ is quite difficult to get through KrisFlyer, especially in business class (better availability in economy).

        As starburstyellow mentions, Perth has a sweet spot for 37,500 KrisFlyer miles one-way in business class, from Perth to Singapore or Perth to anywhere in SE Asia (including Hong Kong or Taipei), also for 37,500 KrisFlyer miles one-way business class. Practically getting two flights for the price of one.

        • SaberX on 14/03/2019 - 11:52

          Perth to nz i would be targetting virgin tbh. A dummy transaction to queenstown in aug yields circa 73,600 virgin points for business reward. Could only find an economy reward flight back to perth for 34,700 points.

          The only issue im not sure how much taxes are as you cant progress through the screens upon logging in if insufficient points.

          The south east asia is something i would def takeup but have done taipei in recent yrs. Would love to go back but the 3 yr timeframe expiry and the "when" to go back is more the issue.

          How easy is it to snag 37,500 krisflyer miles one way biz class tickets at good dates to SE asia??

          Is 1 amex ascent = to 1 krisflyer mile?? So id get 110,000 krisflyer for my 110,000 ascent vs 126,500 velocity (15% tf bonus) currently??

          • theoracle30 on 14/03/2019 - 12:03

            @SaberX: Availability from Perth to SE Asia is very good on the whole. Of course, peak travel periods you will have to book early, but I snagged seats this Christmas/New Year from Perth to/from Taipei relatively easily in business class as soon as they were released.

            If you can manage last-minute travel instead, then KrisFlyer Spontaneous Escapes often have great deals, such as 20,000 miles from Perth to Singapore one-way, business class.

            Before the changes, 1 Amex Ascent points is 1 KrisFlyer mile, so 110,000 KrisFlyer miles will give you plenty of coverage.

            The Velocity option is not bad either if you'd rather use it within AU/NZ. You can see taxes for Velocity rewards without logging in. Reward flights are fixed price as well based on distance, so Perth to Queenstown is 22,300 points one-way economy or 49,500 points one-way business via Sydney, higher via Brisbane. Taxes are approximately $240 AUD return.

            Make sure you look at the bottom number which is the minimum points amount + taxes paid in cash, which is far better value than the top number where the taxes are converted to points.See screenshot here

            • Some Guy on 14/03/2019 - 12:32

              @theoracle30: What plane does SQ fly out of PER?

              • theoracle30 on 14/03/2019 - 12:33
                +1

                @Some Guy: It's a mix - an old A330 and old Boeing 777-200 for three flights and a new Boeing 787 for one flight every day.

            • SaberX on 14/03/2019 - 14:01

              @theoracle30: Never heard of the sponatenous deal. Interesting.

              That was my train of thought. If i go down krisflyer the undeniably good thing is se asia and other redemptions. But i have a 3 yr gap in which i dont know where i will be going after the qantas europe redemption next feb/ march.

              Presumably velocity offers good value and options for aus travel and nz travel given its routes. I wasnt aware of the differences when searching for points and pay options. I also didnt know reward seats are fixed. I just tried it for perth to queenstown 12 aug 2019 return wed 21 aug and noticed the values you mentioned.

              So essentially one should always pay the lower points and pay cash for your taxes (if cash isn't an issue) as paying with points for everything is much higher?

              Are there certain planes or flights where biz class seats dont fully recline? As i have heard some planes or airlines arent full flat beds for business?

              Is premium economy a worthwhile points redemption and even economy? I know business is proportionally better value if you calculate the retail price. But if you dont mind more flights redemptions by doing economy reward is that a worthwhilr strategy vs business?i presume biz reward seats also disappear faster?

            • SaberX on 14/03/2019 - 14:02

              @theoracle30: Are there certain routes or regions where velocity or its partner redemption programme are better or comparable to krisflyer?

              Is krisflyer predominantly se asia ? And velocity for aus and nz? I presume velocity and kris are similarly comparable to the US? And krisflyer network for to europe?

              • theoracle30 on 14/03/2019 - 14:12

                @SaberX: 1) Yes, it's always better to pay lower points + taxes in cash where possible because your points are more valuable for a future redemption than being converted to pay taxes at a bad rate.

                2) Only Virgin Australia's Airbus A330 and Boeing 777 have the really good fully-flat business class seats. You'll find them on Perth to Sydney/Melbourne mainly, as well as to Hong Kong and Los Angeles. Unfortunately, all the NZ routes are served by Boeing 737 which is single-aisle and has 8 simple big reclining seats. Food and onboard service are still great though.

                Most of Singapore Airlines' business class is fully-flat seats. Just a few older planes such as the Airbus A330 has angled-flat seats.

                3) Premium economy and economy are 'okay value' if you'd rather go that way. It's just when cash fares are really cheap, it doesn't make sense to redeem points for them. In KrisFlyer, business class is not even double the economy rate (20,000 vs 37,500 on the Perth route).

                Yes, business reward seats are much more in demand for that reason. It pays to book early.

                4) For your question regarding KrisFlyer vs Velocity, maybe check out Point Hacks for a more detailed analysis. Some flights are better value through Velocity, but availability isn't as great.

                5) KrisFlyer covers all of Singapore Airlines' network, which includes SE Asia but also Europe and the US. You'd have just enough KF miles for a one-way Perth to London in business class (106,000 miles).

                Velocity is great for AU, NZ, US (through partner Delta), Hong Kong and some other partners like Etihad and Virgin Atlantic.

                • SaberX on 14/03/2019 - 14:58

                  @theoracle30: Is it worth it then if NZ routes have the 737s to book business?seems like just under 50% less points you can go economy and still get more availability? Im not fussed about food or service as my main reason for biz is for sleeping on longer flights and room.

                  I saw taxes convert to higher points than paying cash (and the equivalent in points for the cash) based off amex 1000 points = $7 as a conversion rate. However the differencen isnt huge. Say 150 in cash vs if all points the cash equivalent could be say 170. Not groundbreaking but i guess it makes a no brainer to pay less by using cash for taxes.

                  With your point 5) it seems europe is hands down krisflyer over velocity?? I assume etihad partner flights through middle east to europe arent tpp competitively priced from a velocity points pov.

                  Are the virgin to hk route as a good value route serviced by virgin itself. I assume one could then find a cheap fare price onwards to taipei etc. As an alternative to krisflyers set se asia tickets.

                  I have had a look at the pointhacks articles. I guess what confuses me is it shows where you can go but with 3 yrs ahead of me largely unplanned it's aloy harder choosing. I think i may go velocity then so i have no expirey given earning velocity points is easy. I would probably miss out on our se asia but having travelled there alot due to family and background it would probably make more sense ticking off more western destinations i.e. queenstown and a snowboarding trip. Perhaps as you said keeping velocity points for domestic au flights and not having to maintain a free flights anz card anymore.

                  My other plan is to ring amex and see if they'll offer me to double my points to stay. I didnt receive the offer but that would work as i could delay my points tf and use it once i know where im going.

                  • kulprit on 14/03/2019 - 18:25

                    @SaberX: Yeah I'm having the same issue. I think I'm just going to go to velocity tomorrow as with young children I have no plans for business flights in the next 3 years on krisflyer.

                    • SaberX on 14/03/2019 - 19:49

                      @kulprit: Kids def means the 3 yr expirey is more of an issue for you than it is me…

                      Im done and dusted. Transferred all 114,771 ascent points to velocity over the phone this arvo. The lady affirmed it was based off transfer date not when it was processed by velocity (.i.e. could take 3 biz days to process).

                      Figured i couldnt decide on future plans and i rang amex at lunch. If you arent offered the doubling of points then they couldn't offer it manually. Basically sealed the deal for me.

                      No annual fee waiver so last chance is closing it as they can offer you points then which can only be seen at closure.

  • tunzafun001 on 14/03/2019 - 19:43

    I looked at flying to NZ last year with Singapore/ Virgin / airnz.

    Off memory I used the kk and delta air search engine to find flights. Then rang kk call centre and discovered there were heaps more than what I could find.

    However, every time I call the kk call centre the operators speak poor or broken English, so found it very difficult to get answers.

    • SaberX on 14/03/2019 - 19:46

      What is kk??

      Did you not end up using virgin to get across to nz?

      • tunzafun001 on 14/03/2019 - 19:51

        Sorry KF. ended up getting return tickets with Emirates with 30kg luggage for $250 return. Kept points for another day.

        Off memory Sing air was 25k points, code share with Virgin/ Nz was 35k points (from Melbourne or Sydney).

        I could get departing adelaide availability. So would have needed to add an extra redemption from adl to either Mel or Syd.

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