Am I an Idiot or Was This Parking Ticket Machine Misleading?

saddybedangdang on 03/03/2019 - 23:47
Last edited 04/03/2019 - 12:26

I will start with saying I am guilty of not displaying a ticket. I am contesting it and I will probably lose. No problem.

The situation is, I used a parking ticket machine at Palm beach that requests the car's number plate. I thought, oh cool, no more paper tickets. Sydney is finally rolling out the pay-by-plate system. INCORRECT. Shortly after paying an absurd $10/hour for parking, the machine prints a ticket. I don't think twice and completely ignore the ticket (It's loud, I don't hear or think of a ticket)

I'm fined,the ticket inspector says to contest the ticket with credit card number, etc.

I think, why would this information be stored? Why would the council validate my claim. They can just make money instead.

My question is, is such a machine deceptive in portraying traits of a pay-by-plate system like other cities and countries? While actually running the prehistoric pay-and-display system?

I plan on writing to the council to inform them that it essentially is a poorly designed system. Many people were making the same mistake according to the ticket inspector.

Tl:Dr Parking ticket machine operates similarly to a pay-by-plate system when intact, it is pay-and-display. I will fight for myself and the citizens of Sydney!

EDIT 1: HI everyone, I really like how this voting has gone. I will contest the fine and see how I go. After the fine is resolved. I will dig around to see if the machines are misleading and signage can improve on Palm Beach site. Thank you all for the advice.

Poll Options

  • 53
    I'm an idiot
  • 126
    The machine is deceptive
  • 17
    Pay the fine!
Automotive

Comments

  • Hybroid on 03/03/2019 - 23:48
    +1

    Did you end up getting the printed ticket? If so, easy to contest it as having paid and fine most likely will be cancelled. Pay-by-plate has been active since I first moved here about a year ago..

    No, I don't think it's deceptive. It's meant to stop you sharing the ticket with someone else to generate more revenue (which isn't always a bad thing, councils need to generate money for maintenance and activities we all enjoy without having to constantly raise taxes for everyone).

    • saddybedangdang on 03/03/2019 - 23:59
      +3

      Unfortunately, the ticket was gone by the time I returned to the machine. I left it in the machine because of pay-by-plate mindset.

      I've used similar systems in other cities that all were pay-by-plate.

      I understand the reason behind having the license plate printed on the ticket. So it can't be transferred. I wish it was communicated better. I saw many people having the same experience today

      • [Deactivated] on 04/03/2019 - 01:18
        +9

        I think with display of your credit card statement showing you paid the appropriate amount at the appropriate time you should be fine (excuse the pun). You did not seek to, and in fact did not in actually defraud or cost the local government any money or obtain any service without payment.

      • jellykingdom on 04/03/2019 - 08:04
        +1

        I'd probably contest it, since it's not like you didn't pay, you were just a bit silly to not put it on your dashboard

        I think they'd consider waiving it!

        • Kandrew on 04/03/2019 - 09:55

          They might consider waiving the fine. But I wonder what they’ll think about wasted hours in court.

          Even if the OP wins the case and doesn’t have to pay the fine, might the council seek costs? Just wondering …

          • lolz112 on 04/03/2019 - 10:50

            @Kandrew: I don't think OP has asked for a review. Seems like he's just assuming the council's will be out to get him and they will ignore whatever he writes on the review

            • saddybedangdang on 04/03/2019 - 12:05

              @lolz112: Hi, I should clarify, I have appealed the decision and taken advice from above in regard to credit card statement. I'll see how I go :)

            • Kandrew on 04/03/2019 - 13:49
              +10

              @lolz112: I realised my mistake and began to edit my post. Then I got waylaid and have only just been able to come back to it, but I now cannot edit it. What I was going to say is

              Editing my post to apologise for jumping to conclusions.

              [TL;DR - When I read about a person contesting a parking ticket/fine, my mind immediately jumps to the situation of a friend who tried very hard to explain to Wagga Wagga City Council why her fine should be withdrawn. She had started driving out of her parking space (and noticed the parking inspector) but an old lady tripped and fell whilst crossing the road. So my friend quickly stopped in a disabled parking space and was issued with a ticket.

              Long story short, but Council fought it all the way to court with their barrister(!) and the judge, having subpoenaed the photos from street cameras because Council knew what was in them and they didn’t want them to be seen, roasted council for wasting everyone’s time and the money of their ratepayers. He threw the case out of court and ordered Council to pay all costs.]

  • pegaxs on 03/03/2019 - 23:58
    +36

    What you need to do is write a 4,000 word essay, post it here and then argue with everyone from the desk clerk all the way up to the mayor. Demand “your rights”.

    Also, if you paid and can provide details of the payment, write a the letter like you were told, explaining it was paid and provide the payment information.

    I plan on writing to the council to inform them that it essentially is a poorly designed system.

    What you don’t do is go on with all the shit about it being deceptive. Just stick with the facts and keep it simple. Save your outrage for your work colleagues/twitter/Facebook/Snapchat/MySpace friends…

    • saddybedangdang on 04/03/2019 - 00:02
      +1

      Haha, I will definitely rant about this to my colleagues.

      I will argue the facts to the SDRO as it is what you can prove etc.

      And I will write to North Shore Council asking that they improve signage in the area as many tourists visit and seem to fall victim to this. Perhaps misleading rather than deceptive is a better choice of wording.

      Cheers

      • pegaxs on 04/03/2019 - 00:27
        +6

        Clear the fine mess up THEN go on your personal crusade about signage. It isn’t relevant to your case and will just make you look like a nutter if you try and use it as defence.

        Stick with what you can prove. Leave out emotions. Once it has been cleared up, the floor will be yours. SRDO won’t give a shit and it will fall on deaf ears. SRDO just deal with payments, not enforcement or signage. Take it to a local council meeting if you really want to. But just don’t be “that guy” and think getting wound up over it will help you get off your ticket. It won’t.

        Be polite. Stick to the facts. Say as little as you need to.

      • ihbh on 04/03/2019 - 07:33

        North Shore Council

        Is there a North Shore Council?

        • [Deactivated] on 04/03/2019 - 08:01

          I would like to hear the view of Pegaxs. Is this revenue raising?

          • pegaxs on 04/03/2019 - 11:35
            +2

            @[Deactivated]:

            Is this revenue raising?

            No. There is a requirement in the area to display a ticket while parking. OP didn't display a ticket.

            Unless there is more evidence or photos of just how vague the "display your ticket" rule is, then the onus is on OP to display a valid ticket. Revenue raising would be the $10/h parking fee.

            Parking fines are totally optional, therefore they are not "revenue raising" by nature. You can easily opt out of not paying by either not using their service or not breaking the road rules. Is it revenue? yes. Are councils and police addicted to this revenue, yes. But it's not revenue raising, because we have the power to not pay it.

            Although, I like to imagine what would happen in a dystopian future, where everyone just obeyed the law, parked correctly and didn't speed. I genuinely believe there would be chaos. Christ, I think the wheels of police and councils would start to seize up within a month of no fines, let alone a year.

            I want to start "No Fine November" where everyone goes out of their way to not get a fine, just to see heads explode. Police like to say "we don't want to give out fines, it's about road safety. We would be happy if everyone did the right thing." After No Fine Nov. all speed signs would drop to 30km/h and 1km/h over would be a $2,000 fine.

        • kerfuffle on 04/03/2019 - 08:02

          No, and they wouldn’t be looking after Palm Beach anyway. Maybe Warringah?

  • Sage on 04/03/2019 - 00:21

    I've never heard of this pay-by-plate system. Do you have proof you paid for the parking?
    Surely the parking meter has instructions to follow. I don't think comparing it to other countries is a good excuse.

    • AdamFury on 04/03/2019 - 01:22

      AFAIK;

      Go to carpark, reads plate on way in (AB:12:CD), park for 4 hours. Leave carpark and reads plate again. Charges for 4 hours parking on way out.

    • Emerald Owl on 04/03/2019 - 02:32
      +2

      You type the number plate into the meter.

    • saddybedangdang on 04/03/2019 - 06:47

      The only proof I have is credit card statement and I imagine the machine since it records license plate numbers (as you have to input). But I doubt the council uses them for proof

    • ThithLord on 04/03/2019 - 09:02
      +5

      You never been to Brisbane? Heaps of parking in the CBD - once your Number Plate is entered you just pay the machine, no need to display ya ticket.

      • saddybedangdang on 04/03/2019 - 12:13
        +1

        I think it is a great system

        • ThithLord on 04/03/2019 - 14:33
          +1

          Hashtag MeToo

      • daiwai on 04/03/2019 - 17:43

        Melbourne have it for quite some time too. Also doesn't need to display ticket, but they do print out receipt.

  • Heracles26 on 04/03/2019 - 05:55

    How much was the fine?

  • kerfuffle on 04/03/2019 - 06:22

    Yet another thread which is posted scross multiple sites … … At least it wasn’t a copy/paste job like the last person

  • EightImmortals on 04/03/2019 - 07:26
    +1

    To me it just sounds like another scummy pseudo-government scam to rip off more people by not allowing you to pass the unused portion of your ticket to the next person. If I have time left on a ticket I will often give it to someone else if I they park at the right time (i.e. when I'm leaving). If the rego number is now printed in the ticket I guess we can't do that. The robber barons win again?

    But to answer your question, if the machine spat out a ticket I would place it on the dash regardless.

    • tomsco on 04/03/2019 - 12:18
      +4

      Yep. Screams of double dipping.

      If they don’t want to let you pass on your remaining time, than at least let us get a refund of the unused portion when we leave significantly earlier.

      • burningrage on 04/03/2019 - 19:14
        +1

        That is I think how PayStay (VIC) works. You just pay on the exact times you stay.

        However, there is a trick that allows you to stay much longer than you pay for but must be meticulous. Follow around underground forums and you will find it lest any council Ozbs will close the trick. :)

    • Aureus on 04/03/2019 - 20:46

      That is not why they do it.

      They have vans with number plate recognition cameras. If they scan your number plate in a parking spot without a valid ticket in the system you get a fine.

      So basically they make it annoying to pay for parking so it is easier/cheaper to fine people.

  • DarkOz on 04/03/2019 - 07:48

    Show them that you've paid for the parking and ask for evidence that displaying the paid parking ticket is required.

    You made an assumption that displaying the paid parking ticket is not required. It's an innocent mistake but still your own mistake.

  • JimmyF on 04/03/2019 - 08:05

    My question is, is such a machine deceptive in portraying traits of a pay-by-plate system like other cities and countries? While actually running the prehistoric pay-and-display system?

    What did the signs say? They are normally pretty clear if its a pay/display system. Regardless if you entered your rego or not. This is most likely to stop people 'sharing' tickets or finding a old ticket to contest a fine etc.

  • Skramit on 04/03/2019 - 08:27

    Should be a simple one to clear up with the council by proving you paid via credit card statement.

  • askme69 on 04/03/2019 - 08:33
    +1

    Send in a request for review to OSR, Include or your details and the vehicle details if are the registered owner. If you are not, advise them that you were responsible.

    Advise the time date, etc also include the first 4 and last 6 digits of the credit card used for payment. They will send off to council who will confirm the purchase.

  • waterbottled on 04/03/2019 - 08:51
    +1

    you're not an idiot and neither was the machine deceptive. You simply wrongly assumed that the machine worked a certain way that's all.

  • Seraphin7 on 04/03/2019 - 09:22
    +1

    My bet is the council will enforce the fine. The last time a council voluntarily withdrew a fine, Lachlan Macquarie was still Governor, I think.

    On the other part of your question, I agree that it is a ridiculous system. It causes a delay at the ticket machine for no benefit to the consumer. The only reason it exists is to prevent the "handing on" of the ticket, i.e. you've finished parking and still have an hour left on it and you offer it to someone else so they don't have to pay for that hour. Surprise, surprise … another council money grab!

  • Kandrew on 04/03/2019 - 10:05
    +1

    The only reason it exists is to prevent the "handing on" of the ticket, i.e. you've finished parking and still have an hour left on it and you offer it to someone else so they don't have to pay for that hour.

    And the ticket system was brought in to try and prevent people getting free time left on parking meters which used to display the time on the machine.

    I’ve never seen anyone giving another driver their ticket to place on the dashboard. And on the few occasions I’ve had to use those silly ticket on the dashboard parking meters, I have never been able to find someone who wanted my leftover time.

    • abb on 05/03/2019 - 10:07

      Used to happen at my uni. People who left around lunch time would sometimes leave their paid 'all day' tickets at the ticket machine for the next punter.

  • HighAndDry on 04/03/2019 - 10:17
    +3

    Appeal it because you actually did pay for a ticket, but it's not misleading - you just made a mistaken assumption.

  • mitcheo on 04/03/2019 - 11:08
    +1

    Its not clear enough, i used one in Brisbane recently and i was standing there waiting for a ticket to come out, I thought the machine may have been broken. not good enough.

  • BOGOF on 04/03/2019 - 11:21
    +2

    While you are strictly in the wrong, i would politely ask council to review the fine.
    A non-critical letter of appeal clearly describing the date, time and rego and a copy of your credit card transaction is highly likely to get the fine revoked. You did after all act in good faith, you just made an honest mistake.

  • psdillon on 04/03/2019 - 12:22
    +3

    A bit off topic, but what's the big deal with giving your ticket to someone else to use the remaining time? It's paid for. Why don't they just put up a sign that reads "KIND GESTURES TO STRANGERS STRICTLY FORBIDDEN" or "NO SMILING ON COUNCIL PROPERTY".

    • HighAndDry on 04/03/2019 - 13:28
      +1

      Probably pure revenue-raising, but I can see it being a practical measure to stop people from saying: "I was displaying this ticket despite it being paid by someone else for another car". It'd make dealing with appeals/reviews almost impossible.

    • abb on 05/03/2019 - 10:10

      Pfft, with that kind of "sharing" logic you can only make (say) $10 per hour per spot. If you force everyone to buy a new ticket, you might be able to make $15 or $20 !

  • petry on 04/03/2019 - 13:34

    mate you get a parking ticket for overhanging another space having delivered a patient to emergency with a police escort and flashing lights - that's just how things are now.

    reckon if I had a posh tesla it would have been ok….. council told me to f…. off and pay

    • burningrage on 04/03/2019 - 19:15

      Ahhh… you should have recorded that part where the council told you to f… off and pay. That will be epic!

    • abb on 05/03/2019 - 10:12

      Almost every road rule has an "except in case of emergency" clause, if you parked as best you were able and moved your car as soon as practical you would have had an extremely strong case to get out of that one.

      • petry on 05/03/2019 - 10:39

        yeah like dealing with tragedy's leaves you time to deal with sickening human behaviour.

  • eciuj on 04/03/2019 - 16:13
    +2

    Reminds me of shopping centres who use plate recognition and still provide a ticket. Why do we need paper tickets if you have plate recognition unless it gives them an opportunity to charge a full rate for lost tickets.

  • Traveller107 on 04/03/2019 - 19:15
    +1

    I got a fine years ago in Perth for not displaying ticket. Sent a picture of the ticket with a humble letter explaining my mistake and asking for a waiver and it was waived. But do note that it was my first ever fine and that might have been the reason behind leniency too. Cheers!

  • Downvoter on 04/03/2019 - 20:58
    -1

    I wish there was another poll option with stronger language than “i’m an idiot” as an option.

  • lainey13 on 04/03/2019 - 22:25
    +1

    Wouldn't the machine have a record of your plate?

    • saddybedangdang on 04/03/2019 - 22:27

      Yeah excerpt someone made a good point that the machine doesn't record your license plate or store that data. It just acts as a printer so your ticket is actually linked to your car and therefore can't be given to any other vehicles after you leave

      • gimme on 04/03/2019 - 23:05
        +1

        Pretty sure everything is recorded these days even when they say or think it's not. If someone had died and they police needed the info for something I'm sure it will be extracted.

  • Herbse on 04/03/2019 - 23:13
    +1

    How do you know the plate isn't recorded?

    Many people make the mistake of thinking that a 3H paid parking spot means that you pay for 3hrs, come back and pay again if you need to stay longer.
    You actually need to leave that parking area make room for other people to utilise it, not just keep paying for your spot. If that was the case, then they would simply increase it to 6hrs and up the price.

    So if they have your plate stored, they know if you've been there for more than 3hrs.

  • Gelato on 04/03/2019 - 23:20
    +1

    The fancy machine is just a waste of money…

  • HangryCakeStore on 04/03/2019 - 23:24
    +1

    Is it me or the number greedy revenue raising miserable making councils have shot up in the past month? Not like there help in the community has been shot up the same amount.

  • gromit on 05/03/2019 - 07:27
    +1

    I got caught out exactly the same way. I did contest the ticket too and they asked for my credit card number I used to pay. I provided that and they cancelled the ticket. It seems rather idiotic in this day and age to move to a system that allows you to enter the number plate but still requires you to put a paper ticket on your dash.

  • ankor on 05/03/2019 - 08:07
    +1

    I've almost been caught out by this as Brisbane is pay + no display whereas many gold coast areas are pay+display. I've taken to reading the ticket and the machine together to work out what I'm required to do. I've also looked at what other cars have done to ensure I'm compliant. Otherwise I'd be posting random things on ozbargain.

    I did have one instance where in the grips of the flu, I'd entered in my plate wrong. It was off by one number and I had the receipt. I showed that to the council to contest my fine and they waived it, but also said that my review request was particular to my circumstances. Good luck.

    • living4music on 05/03/2019 - 12:32

      In Brisbane, you enter your number plate, which you can’t give it to someone to use after you leave and still have the parking hours left. On the Goldcoast, you enter the bay number (not your number plate) so you can basically offer the ticket to anyone when you leave and still have the remaining paid parking hours.

  • Austaurean on 05/03/2019 - 08:30
    +1

    A lot of Wilsons parking meters have the 'enter your rego', but you do not need to display the ticket.
    I have since moved to paying online,
    the only thing with that is if you have a different car for the day then making sure the correct plate number is input, and as the online 'form' remembers the one off number plate, making sure I dont accidentally click on it instead of my car (you cant delete the plate that you may use as a one off, i.e. like a loan car when a car is in for service). Same with the area code.
    Would probably have to clear the cookies,

    I haven't seen govt parking meters require your rego number, but I haven't used one in along time.
    I have however been given other peoples tickets to use and given mine to other people to use the left over time.
    The change to having the plate number on the ticket would go a long way to ceasing this behaviour.
    People will still probably just hope the parkies don't bother to check the plate number.

  • chuckles89 on 05/03/2019 - 09:53
    +1

    as many have said here. just contest the ticket but be kind in your response. you could honestly say that you didn't know it was pay and display considering number plate was required.
    at a later stage then you can provide your recommendations on that matter.
    the last thing a reviewing officer would like to see would be that their system is crap but please waive my fine.

  • dan76n on 14/03/2019 - 22:31

    Just send them a copy of you bank statement and they surely will clear it if you have actually paid for parking.
    Proof of purchase is all that’s required. As others have said just stick to the facts.

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