Table Saw Buying Advice. All My Options Have Terrible Reviews

curtturtle on 31/01/2019 - 08:56
Last edited 31/01/2019 - 09:17 by 1 other user

I am currently getting back into woodworking as a hobby and want to buy a table saw.

However, after doing my research on Bunnings' offerings, it seems that all the models available are kind of trash. I was amazed to read reviews of the Makita and how bad it is and the Ryobi is not much better. I am happy to spend a bit of cash on a saw, but it seems unless I go well over $1000 and specialised equipment, I won't get a saw "that can make two identical cuts".

Can anyone point me in the right direction? I am working in my workshop, so it doesn't need to be portable. I am sure a job site saw would probably work, but I would like to be doing some detailed work rather than just ripping rough sheets of MDF. And ideally would like to be under a grand if not 800 bucks. I am also limited to 240v if that helps.

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Comments

  • Nugs on 31/01/2019 - 09:00
    -1

    what does a table saw do that a circular with a guide can't?
    .

    • curtturtle on 31/01/2019 - 09:09

      Neat mitre cuts that are replicable. Honestly, if I had the skill, a circular saw would probably do me, but sadly I don't. Plus after years of renting and thus no space for tools, I finally have a garage/workshop.

      • Nugs on 31/01/2019 - 09:11

        mitres with a sliding compound drop saw? or are you talking about 'long' mitres?
        .

        • bertusaurus on 31/01/2019 - 09:34

          A table saw can do both rip cuts and mitre cuts.

          You can can set the fence and do repeat cuts of same length with no hassle.

          Doing repeat cuts with a circular saw can be difficult and time consuming, especially without a jig of some kind.

  • sheamas88 on 31/01/2019 - 09:24
    +3

    Look for second-hand tools if you're on a tight budget. I'll take a good brand second-hand tool over some rubbish brand new. For your price range you will almost certainly have to go second-hand.

    You won't get good woodworking tools from Bunnings either, so don't waste your time there. They mostly sell tools for tradies who will chuck them out when the break in a year or two. If you want something that will last then you need to go to a proper tool shop.

    Also, MDF is really hard on blades, even more so than hardwood. So you definitely don't want a cheap saw/blade if you're working with MDF

  • MoMoney on 31/01/2019 - 09:26
    +2

    Keep an eye out on Gumtree for a second hand one. Prices are always better second hand, and it's the same saw. If you're working with a budget, it's the best way to get a better grade of tools for your money.

    I recently picked up a DeWalt 7491 for $650. They retail for $1100. Works a treat.

  • bertusaurus on 31/01/2019 - 09:29
    +1

    Unfortunately under $1000 you are pretty limited.

    I did a fair bit of research into this a while back and from that I found, you have two options that are passable in that range. You will also only find portables in this price range.

    First is the Dewalt 745 254mm 1850W
    or if you are willing to go a bit extra, its big brother the Dewalt 7491 254mm 2000W with a bit more power (however according to the specs, less rip capacity).

    Second is the Evolution 255mm 1800w Rage5s. I could only find total tools stocking this one, and the reviews look really good for the price (check Youtube). I got really close to buying this one and wish I had the cash to buy it.

    In the end I ended up going with a mostly junk $100 Aldi table saw. OzBargain. Go figure.

    Good luck!

    • curtturtle on 31/01/2019 - 09:36

      Wow cheers for the links on this. I have a feeling that I am going to be up around the $1000 mark to get anything half decent. Dewalt and Metabo seem to be reasonably good in that range. Just sad how some brands cough cough Makita cough have dropped their quality over the years and despite knowing the flaws seem to make no effort in fixing them.

    • serpserpserp on 31/01/2019 - 11:12

      What work are you doing with the ALDI saw though? Can you do repeatable mitre cuts like OP needs?

      • OrderInWrongWordsThe on 31/01/2019 - 21:43
        +1

        I've got both an Aldi and my own Evolution Table saw in the same shed and I have to say the Aldi one is suited for small light work with no great need for precision. It mostly just takes up space on the bench and there is never any reason I would use it over setting up the Evolution saw.

        To do precise mitre cuts with any table saw your main problem is going to be getting the blade accurately tilted to the right angle. You can get magnetic angle gauges online which should help greatly with this. Generally the markings on the saw are not to be trusted.

        The fence doesn't seem fantastic and it's a smaller blade meaning you can't cut particularly thick material. That said I assume it is quite a lower powered motor so it would probably bog down hard on the 50mm Messmate I want to rip cut.

  • OrderInWrongWordsThe on 31/01/2019 - 09:42
    +2

    I've got one of these and I quite like it. Got it for $500 but they are now sold for $550 and are exclusive to Total Tools.
    https://www.totaltools.com.au/power-tools/corded-tools/saws/…

    It is a job site saw but if you are setting up your workshop you can just build it into the end of your workbench which would have the advantage of giving it a nice long flat outfeed table.

    Pros for me have been
    - It's designed to cut both metal and wood with the same blade at the same time, so finding nails in reclaimed wood isn't an issue, you will barely notice it cutting through them. You can even use it to cut metal sections or plate. Helps if you may consider doing some work with metal and means you don't need to buy multiple different saws or risk blowing teeth off your wood cutting blade when you stumble across a nail in some reclaimed wood.
    - Really solid fence which is how you get good repeatable straight cuts. Locks at both the back and the front. Some cheap saws just lock at the front which allows them to flex at the back.
    - You can lock the mitre guage down and then the left section of the table actually slides which is a nice feature I haven't seen on similarly priced table saws

    Some negatives though, none of them insurmountable but worth being aware of.
    - The riving knife didn't align fully with the blade when I got it out of the box and it took a bit of fiddling around to get it to line up right.
    - Due to the blade not having a super high tooth count it won't be the finest cut you ever make. Nothing that a bit of sandpaper can't fix though and should be improved by a zero clearance plate
    - The gap is quite large near the blade, but that is pretty common and like all table saws can be fixed with a zero clearance throat plate. Maybe make a few if you regularly plan to do angle cuts
    - The tracks on it are about 1mm wider than the usual 3/4" meaning that all the featherboards and other attachments you may buy will need custom made runners. Not too hard to make but annoying all the same

    • curtturtle on 31/01/2019 - 09:49

      Cheers for the review. I think this is definitely a model to look at. Hell for the $500 difference to the metabo or dewalt, I can get a half decent sliding mitre saw to handle any tricky cuts I need.

    • curtturtle on 31/01/2019 - 09:53

      Do you know if I can run a dado stack in it.

      • OrderInWrongWordsThe on 31/01/2019 - 21:36
        +1

        Not really sure to be honest. Dado stacks do seem to be a very American thing though so it'd be a may work but definitely not designed for kind of thing and would probably require a custom plate to fit properly. Dado stacks are generally not seen in Europe or Australia. I think they may even be illegal in UK. I imagine the reason is that you can't use a riving knife with one which increase the dangers of kickback and other nasty things. The USA table saws tend to be much more dangerous compared to the Euro/UK Version. If you look careful at USA wood working videos many of them having nothing behind the blade at all. This means if you are pushing something through and twist it slightly the teeth at the back which are rising will grab it instead of cutting it and propel the thing at you at high speed. The USA regulations require this convoluted blade guard thing which most wood workers appear to hate or find annoying for many cuts and as it's a pain to take on and off they just leave off.

        As for the slide mitre saw I've got the Evolution Mitre saw too. The updated version is available at total tools https://www.totaltools.com.au/123846-evolution-255mm-2000w-s…
        I quite like it. Main issues I have with it have all been fixed in the updated version they now sell. You do need to adjust everything to get it square but that I feel is fairly standard for any saw with adjustments. It can also cut metal too and shares the same blades as the table saw which makes sparing easier. I put it on the Aldi Mitre Saw stand which was awesome value but I'm sure there are other reasonably cheap stands you can get. The stand is fantastic, complete game changer from using it on a bench as you get rollers on either side to support long material.

  • rxjb on 31/01/2019 - 09:49
    +1

    Until you find a good secondhand table saw, could you go to a nearby shop that has a high end saw to make the precision cuts you require? Most places may only charge $2/cut etc.

    • curtturtle on 31/01/2019 - 09:54

      I didn't know this. Cheers for the tip

  • Adz81 on 31/01/2019 - 09:56

    I borrowed one of these (on stands) for my house renovations- I wish I'd had it from the beginning, incredibly handy piece of kit.

    https://www.bunnings.com.au/makita-1650w-305mm-slide-compoun…

    • curtturtle on 31/01/2019 - 10:24

      I used to borrow a mate 254mm one and it is a great bit of kit. Does show that Makita still makes a few things right.

  • jellykingdom on 31/01/2019 - 10:02

    You haven't really explained what you're trying to do with this table saw………..? Here's the options from my experience

    1) Table saw - I just bought a basic Ozito model, so hardly the best example…..
    Yes it's great for long rip cuts, i used it to do laminate flooring but tbh i've not used it for much else. Other problem is that the overhang from your product can be hard to handle and can result in some accidental gouges if you're not expecting it

    2) Mitre saw with a stopper - https://www.kregtool.com/store/c47/saw-accessories/p107/prec…
    This is a super expensive version but just an example of what's available. i built a basic rolling mitre saw table, with an adjustable stopper made out of a wardrobe door rail, a block of hardwood, and 2 wingnuts/bolts. It is honestly the most useful thing i've ever built. Can make a dozen cuts per minute, all exactly the same

    3) Plunge/Track saw - https://www.bunnings.com.au/ozito-165mm-1200w-plunge-track-s…
    A little slower because you have to reset after each cut

    4) Circular saw adjustable guide - https://www.totaltools.com.au/rip-cut-saw-guide-kma2685?gcli…
    These attachments for a cheap circular saw are great because you can do big wide cuts and it's repeatable. Universal, fits any saw, easy to use, accurate, etc

    • curtturtle on 31/01/2019 - 10:29

      It is hard to list what I intend to do with it, as it will be a touch of everything really. From building shelves and tables, to picture frames to a gaming table to hardwood garden boxes. So as I mentioned a job site unit would probably do the job, but since space and weight is not a problem, I would rather the money go to a bigger size than portability. I know it can be hard to advise without knowing what I intend to do with it. I like your idea of starting with something basic and upgrading it with accessories and tools for specific jobs. I appreciate the advice.

    • curtturtle on 31/01/2019 - 10:30

      Also really like the track and stop kit. Haven't seen that before.

      • jellykingdom on 31/01/2019 - 12:55

        Just google "mitre saw stop guide" or similar, you'll get 1 million ideas. It's also a good first project with your new tools! Mine also doubles as a decent work bench

  • Stewardo on 31/01/2019 - 11:20
    +1

    I’d look for second hand commercial grade stuff often on eBay gumtree or the auction houses, when the joinery shop goes bust.
    Or check out hare and Forbes https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Sawbench-TableSaws?search_…

  • [Deactivated] on 31/01/2019 - 11:58
    +1

    The reason why you won't get two identical cuts from a portable/contractor table saw is the housing and trunnion and unless you're going to go all out and buy a festool, you're better off going with a cabinet saw. Not portable but fixes all these issues with heavy cast iron.

    Rigidity and reliability of the fence is another issue entirely which a cabinet saw trumps.

    If you're making furniture, I'd go with a cabinet saw. They pop up on gummy once in a while but will be at least the ~$1,000 mark.

  • Silicon Wizardry on 31/01/2019 - 13:38
    +1

    I have and love a Bosch table saw. The DeWalt flex volt units also get very good reviews, although I didn't end up going with one. fwiw the Makita units got surprisingly poor reviews, given how good their tools usually are.

    I have a GTS 10 XC. Old but very good. I'm not sure what its price is now, but its old RRP was $800 (I got it for nearly half). I know the GTS 10 J is about $750 not on sale, but not sure what the differences are with the XC.

    If you can afford it, get a Diablo blade. Stock blade is excellent, Diablo is better.

  • Ace Ventura on 31/01/2019 - 13:58
    +2

    Table saws require precision set up. The slot to slot tolerances should be as fine as possible. Which in turn requires precision tools. If set up incorrectly, or "eyeballed" a small tolerance becomes a large tolerance over a long cut.
    Saws are not set up out of the box.

    I feel many of the reviews are home users, who get their saw home, set it up with a straight edge, then complain their cuts are not straight, the box they made has a 1/2mm gap at one edge. Further to this, blades are specific to the job, a blade with a thin kerf, will give a wave down it's cut line, the longer the cut, the more noticeable the wave will be. This is controllable to some extend, but again, I think owners not using the correct set up accounts for many reviews.

    As for a saw,
    I recently set up an evolution brand table saw. It is exclusive to total tools.
    The saw itself comes out of the box with a multi use blade that can cut up to 6mm plate steel, along with all wood types, plastic, perspex and just about anything in between. Good powerful motor. all the bells and whistles of the other portable table saws.

    It does not have screw type adjusters for the blade however, meaning finer tolerances are slightly harder to setup, but certainly possible. it's on of those, get it into the correct position and tighten the screws type of adjustments, if it moves while tightening the screws, that's an oops. That said, using the right tooling, I was able to get the slot to slot tolerances down to .01mm over the length of the blade. Which equates to a .1mm out of parallel over a 3 meter rip. I can live with that.

    Now there are better saws out there, anything that can have the blade adjusted at a very fine level, simply by turning a screw will be more accurate, but you mentioned the under $1000, which the evolution comes easily under. (think its around $600) and is also great if you do any metal work as well.

    • curtturtle on 31/01/2019 - 14:16

      A few people have mentioned the evolution saws and I think that is what I am going to go with. Thank you for letting me know it is a matter of setup. I am fairly ocd with that stuff so, hopefully, I can get it dialled in just right. It is also a great price. Do you know if it will work with a dado stack. It looks like it will, but just want to confirm?

      • Ace Ventura on 31/01/2019 - 15:17
        +1

        I'm actually not sure, I have this strange feeling in the back of my mind that I read somewhere they don't support dado stacks, but I would check first. I do it the old fashion way still.

  • Euphemistic on 31/01/2019 - 16:05
    +1

    Don’t forget that the online review system is largely populated by whingers and doesn’t get any traffic by people who are merely satisfied. You may get the odd positive from someone who is ecstatic with their purchase. This is why a lot of reviews are at either end of the scale but not the middle.

    Buntings don’t have the best stuff, they want lowest prices, so if you want trade quality you need to shop elsewhere. You might find the bunnies tools serviceable within a limit of acceptable home use. I don’t have a table saw but have plenty of Ryobi gear and find it works well for my purposes.

  • backpaqer on 01/02/2019 - 08:29

    I've got the biggest Makita I could buy with the alloy base (not tin) which is awesome in it's own right and then couple that to a Triton mk3 saw bench it has been good. You can then option it up for a routing table, biscuit joiner etc..

  • azonki on 01/02/2019 - 11:24
    +2

    I have just been through this whole process.
    Originally I thought that an Aldi or Bunnings elcheapo would do.
    But after struggling with quality and precision for well over 30 years with Triton saw benches, fitted with $500 Hitachi saws I realised that they were not going to provide what I wanted.
    So, I bought the Evolution from Total Tools after viewing all the YouTubes.
    What a pile of crap!

    The saw blade on the one I bought came up out of the table waving around like a snake. It had between 0 and 2mm longitudinal deflection on the blade depending on where the rotational adjuster was and therefore was impossible to line up with the mitre slots. As well, it was impossible to set the blade at 90º to the table.
    If you have a look at the workings, you will find that the saw motor is mounted on a threaded rod on one side but then and slides up and down on a cheap nylon guide on the other. There is no adjustment so if it is not assembled correctly, you will never get the bugs out. And if it gets bumped or jams, you will never be able to use it for quality.
    And the plastic base flexes and distorts.

    The guys at Total Tools were great. I took it back, and they are sending it back to the manufacturer.

    I then bit the bullet and bought the SawStop.
    The difference in quality is evident everywhere.
    And I can fit an 8" dado stack - on order now. So the first project with that is going to be some plywood shelves for heavier tool storage.
    (Dado stacks were outlawed by the Euro-Nannies. Probably why Britain wants out.)

    What I realised after was that all the YouTube vijayos on the Evolution were by people who had been "given" the saw for review.
    And that's not skookum at all.
    If you are OCD, the Evolution will reduce you to tears.

    • foursaken on 04/02/2019 - 16:05
      +1

      Ahhh. You speaka the language. Thanks for your review in the doobly-doo.

    • Joe Sixpack on 22/03/2019 - 14:23

      The Evolution Rage 5S table saw is not all that bad. Here's a reasonable review:
      https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/evolution-rage5-s-…

    • muppet on 24/03/2019 - 14:52

      Where did you buy sawstop from, which model and $$?

      • azonki on 25/03/2019 - 10:39

        Total Tools in Castle Hill, Sydney.
        I bought the jobsite model as I don't have the space for a cabinet unit.
        The reason I originally purchased the Evolution was that it ticked all the boxes. If you add a stand to a Makita or a deWalt you are up near $1500.00.
        I paid the asking price, which was around $2K. After my experiences with the Evolution it was very easy to see the value.
        I believe that SawStop do not encourage discounting.
        And…..the saw is absolutely fantastic. Could not be more pleased.

        • muppet on 26/03/2019 - 00:16

          What do you use it for? Great accuracy?

          • azonki on 26/03/2019 - 12:54

            @muppet: Accuracy, yes.
            It was perfect out of the box and a far cry from the Triton that I had been struggling with for years.

            And also…
            The saw blade takes only one very smooth revolution of the handle to travel full height.
            The saw assembly rides up and down on two steel posts, unlike the single steel post and a flimsy nylon slide in the Evolution.
            The plastic body is way more sturdy and has significantly more moulded gussets.
            The mitre adjustment is simple and has a fine tune adjustment for +- a few degrees. Without having to disassemble the saw.
            The stand feels more solid and is certainly easier to put together than the Evolution.
            The instructions are more comprehensive and stow on the machine.
            You can also fit a dado stack on the SawStop.
            And then there is the magic SawStop brake system that does its best to ensure that your fingers stay on your hands.

            • Joe Sixpack on 07/04/2019 - 10:16
              +1

              @azonki: Sure but you paid $2K versus the $500 for the Evolution. That's 4x the price! It's not comparable in any way, given the price difference.

              I'm sticking with the Evolution. I had to muck about to get it to make decent cuts, but all good now. If you are making fine furniture and cabinetry, get a proper table saw for ~$4K.

  • curtturtle on 03/02/2019 - 21:18

    So a huge thank you to everyone for the help. I ended up buying an evolution saw. Despite instructions that are worse than 90s ikea instructions, I managed to get it together. The fence amazingly out of the box was spot on and everything seems to be perfect out of the box with no fiddling required. Which is amazing. There is a little sloppiness in the mitre sled, but nothing I can't fix with a better brand (kreg) mitre sled and some shims.

    • Winston100s on 14/04/2020 - 19:12

      Hi,
      Do you still have the table saw and are you happy with it?
      I am in the same situation as you were, but is see that total tools now only sell a 1500w table saw which might be underpowered.
      How often do you find yourself using the saw, have you made any furniture using it?
      Also is there any place you would recommend which sells wood glue?
      Thanks

      • curtturtle on 16/04/2020 - 07:58

        Yes I still have it and it is going strong. The fence has a touch of wobble in it (~1mm) so to make dead straight cuts I have to check it against the blade front and back. I know there is probably an adjustment in the fence to correct this, I just haven't bothered. But compared to the Makita at this price, whose fence doesn't even connect on the table at both ends, this fence is fine.

        I have fed heaps of thick timber through it and it is fine, just go slower if needed.

        I probably use the table saw to take down large sheets of ply these days. I wonder if a track saw would have been the smarter choice. I know a lot of woodworkers are opting for them these days.

        The only wood glue I use these days is titebond and you can find it at Timbecon or even most total tools now stock it.

        • Winston100s on 16/04/2020 - 22:38

          Thanks for your reply, I got the saw yesteday was eager to buy it. I tried it out today but I'm not sure if it's the saw or my cutting technique but not really happy with the smoothness of the cut, i think there might be a slight wobble in the blade. The saw had a plastic cap on the fence missing and loose screws, the part were the fence attaches to is a bit wobbly and one of the plastic rails where the mitre guide attaches to is broken. So far the impression it has left me is no less than what I would expect from an Ozito ,not sure if worth x3 the price difference.

          • curtturtle on 17/04/2020 - 08:05

            @Winston100s: That doesn't sound right at all. The saw was new? You had to assemble the legs and everything?

            There is definitely no wobble in my blade. By the sound of things yours was dropped in shipping or something.

  • daveozsydney on 23/05/2020 - 19:33

    You could make your own?

    Check out what this guy made. Lots of others on youtube too

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2RDzpg03aU

    • curtturtle on 24/05/2020 - 13:54

      Very true. You can. But I would personally prefer to spend my limited time building with my tools than building my tools. Plus there is such tight tolerances with a lot of these tools in order to make them accurate. I am not sure I can make a table saw that would be dead accurate.

  • Jpjolley on 06/07/2020 - 20:05

    Hi, i have the evolution table saw, had since September last year and absolutely love it. Im now in the market for some featherboard attachments and am looking at the magswitch jig which attaches using magnets. However they only work on cast iron table saws. Im struggling to find specs which say what the evolution is. Any one can help… i thought i saw something on a YouTube review that said it was cast iron but can't remember, want to make sure before i commit to buying the jig.

    • curtturtle on 07/07/2020 - 09:06

      See if a magnet sticks to the table. I can't think off the top of my head if it is. If a magnet sticks, it should be fine for magswitch.

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