Is This a Pointless TRS Claim?

LKing Taddy on 10/12/2018 - 15:00
Last edited 14/12/2018 - 11:43 by 1 other user

I've just bought a new iPhone for $1,600 from an Australian retailer.

The tax invoice has my name and address on it, so I believe I am eligible to claim a GST refund from the TRS when I go to Japan next month.

Issue is, when you return home you're supposed to pay GST on new purchases or on goods previously refunded by TRS that exceed the concessional limit ($900).

Therefore, I'll just be asked to repay the GST (on the phone plus anything else I buy while in Japan) when I get back? Is that correct?

Anyone have any experience with this…

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Comments

PissLUR on 10/12/2018 - 15:03

are you travelling alone? fyi you can pool the free gst threshold on arrival.
- King Taddy on 10/12/2018 - 15:17
  
  travelling with friends but as far as I am aware the pooling is only for families.
  - bobbified on 10/12/2018 - 17:31
    
    +1
    
    only for families
    
    A family includes a person and his or her de facto partner (including same-sex couples)
    
    Aren't you travelling with your partner? ;)
    
    I sometimes declare and they dont even bother checking.
  - SmiTTy on 11/12/2018 - 10:25
    
    +2
    
    Ask your friend to bring it back for you.
    
    Whilst I've read of situations where they mark your details in order to check you on the way back in, I've never seen it happen.
meowmeowmeow on 10/12/2018 - 15:08

+2

Customs have bigger fish to fry. You might have to pay something upon return but it's unlikely, and if you do have to pay they will depreciate the item and you'll only pay the small difference. What have you got to lose? I claimed a $1600 laptop and customs just waved me past when i declared it upon return.
- King Taddy on 10/12/2018 - 15:18
  
  so I will need to declare the goods on my immigration card? but will only be asked to pay back the TRS if I am pulled over and requested to do so…
  - meowmeowmeow on 10/12/2018 - 15:50
    
    +2
    
    Yeah i can't exactly remember, but i think i ticked a box on my card to declare it, the customs guy asked what it was and then was uninterested and waved me past. It's best to declare it obviously, and if you are honest then it's rare that they would actually make you pay, it's probably not worth the paperwork.
  - tranter on 10/12/2018 - 15:58
    
    +2
    
    Yes you will need to declare it on the Inbound Passenger Card. You may be pulled aside by an ABF official but often they will use their discretion and let you pass without having to pay anything.
  - SydBargainator on 11/12/2018 - 11:08
    
    If you are using it for your own personal purpose an then do not bring the box with you, then no need to declare?
dcep on 10/12/2018 - 15:08

+1

throw the packaging away and ask your friend to carry it back as used personal belonging just like everyone else carrying their phone (not necessary as they won't keep track of your 1.6k iphone , only happens when you claimed gst for 50k Tiffany engagement ring)
- King Taddy on 10/12/2018 - 15:19
  
  packaging is already gone XD. but that would require me to make a false declaration? and if they asked me where my phone went what would I do, say I lost it in Japan?
  - cwongtech on 15/12/2018 - 14:05
    
    You gave it to your cousin in Japan as a birthday/Christmas present.
    
    Yes uninterested customs officer, yes I did.
    
    No phone on you - no proof to prove you didn't do it, just ask your friend to carry it for you through customs, they aren't linked to your phone :)
2jzzzz on 10/12/2018 - 15:11

+1

Once you exceed your concession, you forfeit it completely. You don't just pay on the difference of $900 and whatever you buy.

To not pay it you would have to provide a false declaration on your card, run the gauntlet of them not wanting to see you all for what you may come out of with $40.
MeesusEff on 10/12/2018 - 15:46

+1

Yeah, just let your friend carry/swap phones after you get off the plane
Lysander on 10/12/2018 - 17:20

-4

Technically, what you intend to do is illegal (and of course there is now a trail as you asked the question here, probably using your home or work computer and IP address - also shows intent so you could not claim an error or lack of knowledge).
If they catch you you will be fined and might have to go to court as when it comes to money the government does not have much humour.
Not worth it in my opinion.

I am always baffled by this behaviour - people want well paid jobs, god infrastructure and services living in Australia but are not willing to pay for it/contribute to it and employ even illegal means to avoid paying the money used to pay for such services.
It is not possible to have both, at least not medium to long term I am afraid.
- bobbified on 10/12/2018 - 17:34
  
  +1
  
  but are not willing to pay for it/contribute to it
  
  If there wasn't so much obvious wastage of those taxes…..
  - Lysander on 10/12/2018 - 17:42
    
    While there is a lot of truth in that, not paying them at all and not contributing to society (when everyone else does) while using it all and benefitting from the services etc., is still not a solution.
    Get elected as MP or Senator and change it - that would be a constructive and fair solution benefitting everybody.
    - bobbified on 10/12/2018 - 17:49
      
      Im not against paying taxes.
      
      The one that pisses me off is the cigarette one. Yes, there's a whole argument on how much it costs the health system for smoking, but how do they justify charging non-citizens/tourists over $0.70 per cigarette in tax to brimg their own smokes while on holidays?
      
      The collection of the GST for goods under $1,000 costs more to administer than the income it generates.
      
      While this kind of stupidity carries on, I'm going to continue to try minimise whatever taxes I need to pay.
      - Lysander on 10/12/2018 - 17:58
        
        +1
        
        @bobbified: All you achieve with that is that they will just increase taxes you cannot escape.
        
        For the GST issue, direct your ire at Gerry Harvey and friends. Write letters, boycott the store regardless of the bargains. Imagine what would happen if nobody bought anything at HN for 2 weeks in protest. Of course that won't happen but even if 30% of customers stopped buying anything in protest it would be fine.
        
        Re cigarette tax - smoking cigarettes is a luxury and the tax is a luxury tax. Plus, one can justify that the rubbish smokers leave behind (buds etc.) incurs a cost for clean up and so does the maintenance and purchase of those "smoking cylinders/containers" fastened to light poles etc.
        
        I mean, how do you think working holiday travellers feel - their initial tax rate is double that of an Australian (at least it used to be but it is definitely much higher)? How is that justified? They do the shit jobs and get punished for it. And they do not even get all the services you get such as Centrelink, Medicare etc. and yet pay dearly for it.
        But does anybody do anything about that? No (maybe very few) because "natives" are not affected and hence do not care.
        
        By trying to do the dodgy on the TRS (which is actually for tourists to offset what they have to pay as tax when they enter their country - yes, they have to pay tax quite often) only pisses off the honest Aussies - effectively you are cheating them.
      - SlickMick on 11/12/2018 - 10:16
        
        +2
        
        @bobbified: The cigarette tax is one thing I reckon we actually got right. Australia is a far better place for it, and you notice the difference when in a country that is less active in discouraging smoking.
        
        Yes, smokers rights are restricted. The idea is to quit, but otherwise they'd probably feel more comfortable in a more tolerant country.
        
        Likewise I have no issue if we only get non-smoking tourists.
        
        Actually, I reckon we should just ban smoking and we could put that on the tourism brochures.
        
        tman2020 on 06/05/2024 - 21:08
        
        @SlickMick: Why stop there, ban alcohol as well. We should not tolerate drunken poms at Bondi beach most poluting our air with cigarette smoke. How does that sound for a brochure up on every wall at Sydney airport.
        
        SlickMick on 07/05/2024 - 08:25
        
        @tman2020: Who said anything about banning anything?
  - tman2020 on 06/05/2024 - 21:03
    
    Or multinationals charging an astronomical amount of money for an item that costs a fraction to produce in China, dont pay the taxes they are due im Australia and get away with it. But let's go for the small guy cause this is democracy and we must not upset shareholders.
- King Taddy on 11/12/2018 - 12:16
  
  +2
  
  Why is what I am doing illegal? I did the research and realised it's a pointless exercise. My post was just to confirm my understanding, not to come up with ways to defraud the government…
  
  I note some of the suggestions on here are to engage in dodgy behaviour, but nothing in my post suggested I plan on doing that myself?
  - Lysander on 11/12/2018 - 13:38
    
    -1
    
    The tax refund is for items bought in Australia that then leave Australia and do NOT come back into Australia. It is for tourists, not residents or citizens who live in Australia. That is why it is called the Tourist Refunds Scheme.
    If you bring the items back into Australia and do not pay the GST again, you are committing tax fraud, namely evasion. Last time I checked that is classed as illegal.
    - King Taddy on 11/12/2018 - 14:26
      
      +2
      
      Nothing I intend to do comes anywhere close to tax fraud or evasion. Please take your hysterics elsewhere.
      
      Also, if you think only tourists make benefit under the TRS you must be very new to OzBargain…
      - Lysander on 11/12/2018 - 15:54
        
        -1
        
        @King Taddy: Mate, that is what it is for. Of course people abuse it. But some people here also think pirating games, music, movies is fine and ok. While morally there might be some arguments for it, without a doubt under current law such actions are illegal. As much as claiming back the GST under the TRS when you are bringing the items back in.
        That is so whether or not you like it.
        You are essentially withholding money from the government that they rightfully should receive.
        
        King Taddy on 13/12/2018 - 23:22
        
        @Lysander: ????
        
        Pirating music or other content is ILLEGAL.
        
        Claiming under the TRS is not. Regardless of your intentions to bring the dutiable goods back into Australia.
        
        I do not see the point you are trying to make, nor do I believe it is relevant to my OP.
        
        Lysander on 14/12/2018 - 03:58
        
        @King Taddy: Claiming under the TRS, then getting the 10% GST back, and then bringing the goods back into Australia without paying the 10% GST again is tax evasion and is illegal, whether you like to hear that or not.
        And of course, saving of the 10% tax is the whole point as otherwise the whole exercise is totally pointless - the tax refund is why people do it and risk being caught.
        
        cwongtech on 15/12/2018 - 14:08
        
        @Lysander:
        
        Claiming under the TRS, then getting the 10% GST back, and then bringing the goods back into Australia without paying the 10% GST again is tax evasion and is illegal, whether you like to hear that or not.
        
        You can pool your allowance together for families.
        
        Lysander on 15/12/2018 - 14:10
        
        @cwongtech: Where in the OP is the word "family" mentioned?
        You are assuming information and deviate from the original facts.
        
        cwongtech on 15/12/2018 - 17:08
        
        @Lysander:
        
        Where in the OP is the word "family" mentioned?
        You are assuming information and deviate from the original facts.
        
        This comment indicates some family members travelling with the O.P.
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/423876#comment-6707120
        
        Unless customs require you to prove relationships by blood or marriage via certificates or family trees on the spot during arrival, anyone travelling with OP could be "family".
        - Cousin
        - Brother-in-law
        - Sister-in-law
        
        We're all Gerry Harvey certified professionals here in the OzBargain family are we not? :)
        
        Lysander on 15/12/2018 - 18:22
        
        @cwongtech: TBh, for the little amount involved, I personally would not want to risk it, especially as with the slightest thing like that my livelihood would be in danger as then I could not register to practice anymore.
        Not worth it unless one stays within the law.
        I will be claiming $50 on something I take out of Oz but it will not come back.
        
        whooah1979 on 15/12/2018 - 18:26
        
        +1
        
        @Lysander: The ABF won't look twice if op disembark from the right country and have right skin colour.
        
        Lysander on 16/12/2018 - 13:54
        
        @whooah1979: You think? Hmm, I have seen white Canadians, Germany, British, American etc. being questioned and fined. But hey, if you want to believe what you said, that's fine with me. Maybe the likelihood is lower but it still happens.
        Plus, do you think the ABF is stupid - they know that "innocent" looking passengers such as elderly and mums with kids (prams) are used in various ways (e.g. smuggle in tobacco) - so they do check them more frequently.
        
        King Taddy on 16/12/2018 - 13:27
        
        @Lysander: yeh you need to go and google a definition of illegal. please go away now.
        
        Lysander on 16/12/2018 - 13:51
        
        @King Taddy: I do not need too. But because people like you cherish the internet and being a professional is not a good enough source, yes, I have to as otherwise you come up with some BS excuse.
        Mate, you seem to have had an outcome in mind before you even asked the question as you only seem to take in the advice suitable for you.
        Why waste our time?
        Plus, I am not the only one saying this is illegal and yet I am the only one you attack. Very fair and mature.
        You think you are right - so why not ask Customs directly? If you are doing all right, you cannot get a better source than them.
        But as you know that what you might be doing is a dodgy thing, you prefer to ask here.
        Come on man, at least be honest!
        
        King Taddy on 16/12/2018 - 14:17
        
        @Lysander: I asked to confirm my understanding, as it is possible I could have misunderstood how it all works.
        
        I don't need people like you ramming bs down my throat about how illegal it all is. So long as I declare, I haven't done anything illegal.
        People like you just love to start shit on OZB posts. You went on 2 separate rants on this post alone.
        
        Go away, nobody wants you here.
        
        Lysander on 16/12/2018 - 15:05
        
        @King Taddy: And that's all I said:
        
        Declare and you are fine - Legal
        
        Pretend people who are not family are family - illegal
        
        Do not declare - illegal
        
        Lie about the value - illegal
        
        That really answers all your questions and yet you keep going on and on and on.
        
        I wonder how people ask a question and then refuse to take the advice. If you are omniscient and know everything better why ask anybody and then refuse to take advice.
        
        I find it funny that it is often the people who contribute the least who have the biggest mouth.
        Go and find us some bargains as nobody wants just takers here.
        
        King Taddy on 16/12/2018 - 15:55
        
        +1
        
        @Lysander: But you didn't just say that?
        
        You said claiming the TRS and not paying the GST upon return is evasion and is illegal.
        
        You didn't say anything about declaring.
        
        You came into the post with a combative attitude and have been a PITA all week.
        
        Look how everybody else structures their answers. You could learn from them.
        
        Lysander on 16/12/2018 - 16:15
        
        -2
        
        @King Taddy: Mate, focus your energy on finding us bargains.
        
        You have got your answer.
        
        End of transmission.
        
        My time is much better spent volunteering for the homeless than arguing with narrow-minded, stubborn people.
        
        whooah1979 on 16/12/2018 - 16:20
        
        +1
        
        @King Taddy: Don't worry. Declare the widgets at the depreciated value and you'll be fine.
        
        whooah1979 on 14/12/2018 - 06:35
        
        +1
        
        @King Taddy: Claim the TRS outbound and declare the depreciated value on inbound. The depreciated value for a used smartphone is around $800.
    - Baysew on 14/12/2018 - 11:33
      
      If you bring the items back into Australia and do not pay the GST again, you are committing tax fraud
      
      Only if you exceed your passenger concession.
      
      The TRS allows Australians and overseas visitors to claim a refund
      
      Bringing goods back into Australia for which you have already claimed a TRS refund
      
      If you are aged 18 years or over, you can bring up to AUD 900 worth of goods into Australia duty-free, or AUD 450 if you are younger than 18. Families travelling together can pool this allowance (a couple with one child can bring in a total of AUD 900 + AUD 900 + AUD 450 = AUD 2250 worth of goods into Australia without paying duty or GST). This is called your passenger concession.
      
      If the total value of the goods you are bringing into Australia that you purchased overseas or for which you have claimed a refund under TRS is greater than your passenger concession:
      -you must declare all of the goods
      -you will need to repay the GST refund back on the goods you claimed under the TRS
      duty and GST will apply to all items purchased, not just goods over the limit of your passenger concession.
      
      Penalties can apply if you don't declare that you have goods in excess of your passenger concession.
      - Lysander on 15/12/2018 - 21:47
        
        -2
        
        @Baysew: OP says one person. $1600 is over the threshold. Hence not repaying the 10% tax is tax fraud.
        Claiming people who are not actually family are family in order to increase the concession: still tax fraud.
        It really is not that hard.
        Is it worth the risk? My opinion is no but everyone can decide this for themselves.
        Maybe I should put one of my best mates onto this site - his wife works for customs and I am sure would be happy to answer all the questions here if you provide her with your name, address, what flight you are on etc. ;-)
        
        Baysew on 16/12/2018 - 11:15
        
        +1
        
        @Lysander:
        
        The tax refund is for items bought in Australia that then leave Australia and do NOT come back into Australia. It is for tourists, not residents or citizens who live in Australia. That is why it is called the Tourist Refunds Scheme.
        
        I have provided the info from Border Force website. Are any of the details I have quoted incorrect?
        
        The TRS allows Australians and overseas visitors to claim a refund
        
        cwongtech on 16/12/2018 - 11:45
        
        @Lysander:
        
        Maybe I should put one of my best mates onto this site - his wife works for customs and I am sure would be happy to answer all the questions here if you provide her with your name, address, what flight you are on etc
        
        That's rich coming from you, who is willing to not disclose a information about a wrongful refund
        
        Sure, put their wife in here. If she's competent she would already have thought about these loopholes and just figured it's not worth her time to pull someone into an investigation room over $45 of GST.
        
        Pretty sure catching drug traffickers or gathering more scare campaign content for Border Security is worth a lot more.
        
        @Baysew
        
        I have provided the info from Border Force website. Are any of the details I have quoted incorrect?
        
        Nah, according to me, because I have a best cousin's wife who has a friend's brother who also works in customs, that information is incorrect and you are wrong because obviously I am now the authorised authority to speak on behalf of Border Force due to these relations /s
        
        Lysander on 16/12/2018 - 13:20
        
        -1
        
        @cwongtech: Mate, you have obviously missed the point.
        
        Nowhere did I say info will not be disclosed - they will be treated exactly the same way they treat the consumers. As they obviously think this is the right way to treat people, that way cannot be wrong or illegal.
        Plus, if they make a mistake, why should I spend my time to correct their mistake? Shpuld they not correct their mistake using their time and efforts.
        
        Re Customs, it is not just about the money: they are getting a bit sick of people trying to pull a fast one (in fact, a lot of people get sick of that) and for that reason alone it would be worth it. You obviously have never seen people pulled over for a vacuum packed sandwich from a Australian plane (by biosecurity) or for an apple from a Queensland to Tasmania flight by Tasmania biosecurity. Customs and biosecurity are very dilligent.
        If you are so certain about you being right, provide your details and have a chat to custom - see what they think about declaring non-family as family - let us know their written statement that they allow that, please.
Whensday on 10/12/2018 - 17:37

+2

Usually they'll consider it to have depreciated and just thank you for being honest and declaring it on your inbound passenger card. Expect questions upon claiming/exiting rather than upon your return to Australia.
GOCAT9 on 11/12/2018 - 09:15

+1

I have done TRS refunds many times before but yesterday had a new experience at the retail purchase point. I bought a new camera for $1500. When the salesperson was making up my TRS compliant tax invoice for the purchase they suggested that I include my partner’s name on the invoice and not just mine. He said that in order to combine the $900 per person limit it is best to have both names on the invoice. Because he had heard cases of people being unable to combine their limits if both names were not on the invoice.

Has anybody else had any experience with this?
- MathNerd on 14/12/2018 - 10:38
  
  What was the store this happened at? I don't ever see a salesperson at a store have that much knowledge of TRS. I normally get stared at and asked "TRS - what's that? Is that 'That Really Sucks'?"
  - GOCAT9 on 14/12/2018 - 14:20
    
    It was in Diamonds photographic store in Adelaide!!
    
    The sales person was very familiar with TRS procedure it seemed. I told him that I was going to check the tax invoice he was giving me to see if it was TRS compliant. He then said that he had done hundreds before!!

Is This a Pointless TRS Claim?

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