[AMA] I'm a Recently Graduated High School Teacher and Former Teachers Aide, Ask Me (Almost) Anything

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  Quantumcat on 20/11/2018 - 11:00

  Did you get to do a dip ed or did you have to do a whole masters of teaching? I wanted to study to be a teacher but then found out it was going to be like 6 years studying part time on top of my bachelors and I was like nope. Too late to do the 1 year dip ed :(

  Did you spend your whole previous career as a teachers aide or did you do anything else? If so what?

  How come you didn't study to be a teacher right away? Did you change your mind later about what career you wanted?

  And are you excited??? I am jealous :)

  • 

    sandman87 on 20/11/2018 - 11:33

    +1

    I did a bachelor of arts that had a guaranteed entry to the masters program. I also entered too late to do a dip ed. It took me 3 years for the arts and 2 for the masters. Prior to being a teachers aide I worked in retail selling electronic goods.

    I don't think I got into studying teaching straight away because I didn't really know how to become one… Or maybe I was lazy. But I had wanted to be a teacher since finishing school but didn't get the marks to get in straight away. It's a good job. It has its moments, but I enjoy it

  • 

    spersephone on 20/11/2018 - 14:05

    You can do a 1.5-2 year Masters to become a qualified teacher if you also have a Bachelor degree.

    • 

      Quantumcat on 20/11/2018 - 14:41

      I don't think there's anything for 1.5 years, but yep the masters are 2 years full-time, so 4-6 years part-time :-( The Dip Ed was 1 year full-time from memory so only 2-3 years part-time. Not sure why they got rid of it.

      • 

        p1 ama on 20/11/2018 - 17:02

        There are 1.5 year programs - Monash Uni has one

        • 

          Quantumcat on 20/11/2018 - 17:10

          @p1 ama: Nice, I'll check it out! Thanks!

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  battler on 20/11/2018 - 11:07

  Should I go to private or public school?

  What techniques do you use to manage poor classroom behaviour?

  • 

    sandman87 on 20/11/2018 - 11:35

    To teach or to be a student?

    I try and be calm and consistent in my expectations. I find being silent at the front of the room has a better effect at making people quiet. Having a quiet word with kids about their behaviour works too. I also like to joke around and have a laugh too. Being well prepared for your lesson also helps..shows the kids that you're serious and care about what you do.

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    Findo on 20/11/2018 - 13:06

    -1

    I would send my future children to a top-performing selective school (if they made it) or a mid-tier private school that preferably offers the IB programme past MYP.

    For girls, Monte Sant’ Angelo/Loreto Kirribilli/Loreto Normanhurst/etc and for boys, St Aloysius. I’m not Catholic, but I don’t think I can afford upper-tier private school fees on a teacher’s salary - I’ll baptise my kids as Catholic and Anglican for a better range of school options. Those particular girls’ schools have good teaching and learning support, a robust teaching framework and good staff that know their stuff.

    OP, what do you think about the quality of teaching and learning in public v private schools? Obviously the student that performs well may perform well anywhere, but for those that need that a little extra TLC, I don’t think one can go past the private schools.

    • 

      sandman87 on 20/11/2018 - 15:02

      I think the biggest difference between public and private is resourcing. Private generally have a bigger range of resources and it is easier to procure stuff when needed. I don't think the quality of teaching itself varies a huge amount. One of my colleagues at my current school has won numerous awards for her teaching and given lectures on teaching practice. Yet shes never worked in a private school. Ive had friends who went to private schools and worked in them and they tell me that the quality of teaching between public and private doesn't vary too much. Big advantage that a private school can offer is to be able to pay a good teacher more to retain them.

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  p1 ama on 20/11/2018 - 11:16

  Did you always want to be a teacher?

  I'm currently studying a Master's of Teaching, always wanted to be a teacher. When I graduated from high school everyone discouraged me from being a teacher (low pay…etc.), but I couldn't ever shake the love of teaching!

  • 

    Quantumcat on 20/11/2018 - 11:31

    Same here except they successfully discouraged me

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    sandman87 on 20/11/2018 - 11:37

    Yeah I think I have, but what I wanted to teach changed over time. I first wanted to be a visual arts teacher… Except I'm crap at art but love the art history theory. Now. Teaching history and geography. Loving it. The pay for the work you do isn't always proportional, but there's potential for growth through the standards system, at least in some states. If you really wanna do it, don't give up. Most of the job satisfaction comes from what you can achieve with your students, not just the pay.

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      p1 ama on 20/11/2018 - 14:37

      I completely agree!

      The pay for the work you do isn't always proportional, but there's potential for growth through the standards system, at least in some states. If you really wanna do it, don't give up.

      What's your actual opinion of the pay? I've heard people who say that teachers in private schools can earn easily upwards of $100k, whereas some other people tend to think that teaching is one of the lowest paying jobs you can get. What's the actual truth about it?

      I don't really care much about the pay either, but it'd be good to know the facts!

      • 

        sandman87 on 20/11/2018 - 15:03

        The top tier of pay in the public system is about 101k as a classroom teacher. The middle salary is about $85k. Like any job, if you spend a lot and have a lot of outgoings, you will never be happy. Im on the lowest grade, and im happy with what im getting so far.

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  Seraphin7 on 20/11/2018 - 11:47

  Why does the education system not actively encourage academic achievement?

  In my experience, it seems that once a student reaches a certain level of ability above their peers, they are basically left to just idle along until the rest of the class has passed that particular point.

  Where are the pathways that genuinely allow students to accelerate through the syllabus? Too often students who are already competent in a topic are simply forced to wait for others who are further down the learning curve.

  • 

    Findo on 20/11/2018 - 12:51

    Some schools offer accelerated subjects for NESA courses. The IB MYP (when integrated with NESA syllabuses) and DP programmes offer enough flexibility to cater for most students, but it depends on how well the school does their programming and how well the teachers teach.

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    sandman87 on 20/11/2018 - 15:05

    I dont completely agree that it doesnt encourage academic achievement. You're right that once students reach a certain level the rest of the class may play catch up. But there are selective schools, OC classes, etc. Schools like James Ruse Agricultural High and Hurlstone Agricultural are both great public schools that cater to very advanced students. I suppose its the reality of the job though. If you've got 25 kids in your class and 1 is super bright and the rest are average, do you just keep catering to the best student or the majority. Its a tough juggle

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      Seraphin7 on 20/11/2018 - 15:38

      Thanks for the response, but my question is regarding the system, not the individual teacher.

      Clearly 1 teacher of 25 students will struggle to simultaneously deal with various different levels of learning/understanding.

      But why is it that such children seem not be identified and dealt with appropriately? For example, why not move them up a grade or two?

      Or if the school is sufficiently large, have a class of year 3 kids (for example) doing year 4/5 work?

      It seems as though the system is geared towards ensuring everyone can perform at the "average level" … even those who have demonstrated they are well above that.

      Is there something I'm missing?

      • 

        sandman87 on 20/11/2018 - 15:46

        Ah I get you.

        I've heard that some states are building new schools and trying new teaching methods. One example is to teach students by stage not age. For example year 9 and 10 students are Stage 5. Instead of having year 9 and 10 as separate years you just teach all those kids together the content of the stage. This would allow for some more flexibility in how more capable students are taught.

        As for moving them up a grade or two, In some cases i've heard that happening. But often they are moved because of their age not their academic ability. I think in some instances moving a kid up a year if they are super smart may cause other problems, such as the difference in physical and mental maturity.

        I think some schools try and deal with this reality by offering OC classes, composite classes, having classes that are created based upon testing of the academic/literacy/numeracy ability of the students. It's not perfect, but I think there is a desire to support those students.

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          Seraphin7 on 20/11/2018 - 16:38

          @sandman87: Thanks for the responses.

          I think these are critical issues for the education system, and dare I say it, for society in general. If we want to have an achievement-based society and economy, particularly one that competes globally on things such as "STEM subjects", we need to ensure that the best and brightest are encouraged to be everything they can be.

          The fundamentals of education need to be held fast, but they need to be built upon to ensure we are able to produce a cohort of truly world-class secondary and ultimately tertiary graduates who have been given every opportunity to be challenged continuously in their learning. These are the kids that have the potential to create new industries and drive Australia's international competitiveness into the future.

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        fossilfuel on 20/11/2018 - 19:49

        Where are the pathways that genuinely allow students to accelerate through the syllabus? Too often students who are already competent in a topic are simply forced to wait for others who are further down the learning curve.

        There should be at least one gifted and talented class in each secondary grade. Even then, you will have students from a wide range of abilities and you still require differentiation in the classroom. Few students will ever be fully competent in a topic. That is why good teachers should always provide the top end with extension activities to ensure that bright students are appropriately challenged in class.

        But why is it that such children seem not be identified and dealt with appropriately? For example, why not move them up a grade or two?

        In NSW, there's a lengthy evaluative process to move a student up a grade or two. This is through the GATS (gifted and talented students) committee. Parents have a discussion with the classroom teacher (primary) or year advisor (secondary), the receiving classroom teacher (primary) or year advisor (secondary) alongside the principal and school counsellor/psychologist. If there is sufficient evidence to show that the child would benefit from acceleration, then the classroom teacher and school counsellor will do some work re: the student. The school counsellor will do a cognitive assessment and examine if the child meets criteria for acceleration. On the academic side, their work samples, NAPLAN, exam marks are examined. On the mental health, social and developmental side, teachers provide information about the students behaviour and social skills to determine if they interact well with older peers. Another discussion happens when all data has been collected in deciding whether to accelerate the student or not. If the student is accepted for acceleration, their progress will be monitored and reviewed in 6 weeks. All up, it's a lengthy process and it's all to make sure that it's appropriate to accelerate a student.

        Or if the school is sufficiently large, have a class of year 3 kids (for example) doing year 4/5 work?

        A sufficiently large school may not have enough mainstream students to form a specialised class working at a year 4/5 level. You need to consider the logistics like hiring an additional classroom teacher and finding appropriate space to run these classes. Most schools don't have the space nor money to create a specialised class. That's why primary school teachers differentiate in subjects like mathematics. Younger kids in K and year 1 are differentiated by their reading levels and sight words. At the end of the day, the role of teachers is to teach students at the appropriate stage. At year 4, students can take the OC test to seek placement in an OC class, which is funded on top of the current school budget.

        If you want your child to work at a higher stage, then I would recommend tutoring.

        The fundamentals of education need to be held fast, but they need to be built upon to ensure we are able to produce a cohort of truly world-class secondary and ultimately tertiary graduates who have been given every opportunity to be challenged continuously in their learning.

        Ideally that would be great. Unfortunately there are many flaws with the current educational system. In the HSC, students are encouraged to rote learn rather than thinking critically. Teachers are taking on too much responsibilities external to teaching and learning e.g planning excursions, liaising with families, running extra-curricular programs, general admin/paperwork etc. It would be great if teachers can focus solely on teaching the curriculum, however, the current system bombards teachers with extra responsibilities. This reduces the time teachers can interact/assist students with their work.

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          Findo on 20/11/2018 - 19:54

          @fossilfuel: With the new stage 6 syllabuses for some HSIE subjects, the questions read more and more like GCSE/IB style questions - rote learning looks like it’s on the way out.

          • 

            fossilfuel on 20/11/2018 - 19:57

            +1

            @Findo: Great news! I heard that the new English Advanced syllabus encourages creative thinking rather than spoonfeedign and memorising essays. Let's hope it stays this way in the future.

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  pegaxs on 20/11/2018 - 11:55

  +1

  Why can’t the current crop of new teachers do simple things like spelling and grammar?

  I help out as a volunteer at my local school and every time I have to sit in on classes, especially with the younger teachers, it’s just a cringe festival.

  • 

    Quantumcat on 20/11/2018 - 12:21

    +1

    Probably because teaching is low pay so there's not much demand. The best and the brightest go elsewhere - the good teachers are the ones who do it cause they love it not because it is the degree that would accept them

  • 

    Findo on 20/11/2018 - 12:51

    Hahahahaha are they the ones complaining about the accreditation process? I think accreditation will help weed out the underperforming teachers over time, and perhaps even raise salaries once the poor performers are out.

  • 

    sandman87 on 20/11/2018 - 15:08

    I would be the first to admit that my spelling and grammar is sometimes wrong. I think though they are in the minority. We should also remember that they are new and hopefully will get better at spelling and grammar as they go through the profession. So long as the teachers arent saying to kids "apostrophes are optional" or "putting a capital letter at the start of a sentence isn't needed" then I think thats cool

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  HighAndDry on 20/11/2018 - 12:15

  What do you think is required to incentivise better/higher quality/possibly smarter, candidates to enter the teaching profession given that apparently applicants applying are so few and far between (and their level so low) that according to recent reports in the news:

  …in NSW and the ACT in 2015, students who scored in the bottom 50 per cent of school leavers made up half of all those offered places in teaching degrees.

  There were 28 offers made to students scoring an ATAR of 0-19, 29 offers to those scoring 20-29, and 73 offers to students with an ATAR of 30-39.

  And how do you feel about this, as you mentioned above that you didn't get the marks to get in, but presumably these people with far lower marks were offered places?

  • 

    Quantumcat on 20/11/2018 - 12:23

    OP might have had personal problems during exams, happened to my sister with an abusive boyfriend during the exams who only got about 70 instead of in the 90s like me and my other sister. Luckily you can still do pretty much any degree you like by transferring after you start uni.

  • 

    Findo on 20/11/2018 - 12:52

    +3

    Those with such low marks might not even make it to the end of the degree…the LANTITE weeded out almost 20% of my cohort, even though it was basic literacy and numeracy being tested.

    Top private schools are less likely to hire shithouse teachers, that in itself is an incentive.

  • 

    sandman87 on 20/11/2018 - 15:15

    +1

    Good question.

    I think we need to raise the perception of teaching in the community. The amount of times friends say to me "you get heaps of holidays and you get to finish at 3pm", rather than "you guys work really hard and take home heaps of work every day", are too many to count.

    If people perceive that the profession is not respected, they wont get into it. Heaps of people want to be doctors because its a respected profession… not because they want to tell an old man he has cancer and 3 months to live

    Part of the way respect is increased is to increase the pay inline with the reality of teaching. If the job was just 9-3, the pay would be excellent. Teaching, like other professions can involve many hours of work. The importance of this work can't be underestimated and the pay should reflect this.

    To further clarify, I didn't have the marks to get in… in 2005. I entered as a mature age student in 2013. I had a distinction average through my undergrad and masters.

  • 

    p1 ama on 20/11/2018 - 20:08

    +1

    I completely agree with the idea about it not currently being a respected position.

    It does have to do with pay, but I would say not much. The truth is that an average teacher's salary is actually not terribly different from most other similarly skilled jobs. I've had a look at the public school pay grade for teachers and it seems that there would be many teachers earning much more than my friends who have been accountants for a few years, as an example.

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  Findo on 20/11/2018 - 12:54

  Do you teach the IB MYP? If yes, do you find it tricky at times to fit in all the IB stuff with time constraints?

  • 

    sandman87 on 20/11/2018 - 15:17

    No I don't teach the IB. I don't really know much about how it works, sorry

    • 

      Findo on 20/11/2018 - 19:00

      It’s good, but lots of extra work. Very robust if taught well.

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  2jzzzz on 20/11/2018 - 13:12

  DO NOT BURN YOURSELF OUT!

  Such an easy thing to do in the profession, especially those with the empathetic, caring personality who are usually drawn to the job. It's also expected of a teacher these days.

  Admin/principal push so much crap down to teachers to do, parents push so much crap up for teachers to do. Teachers need to start saying no.

  • 

    sandman87 on 20/11/2018 - 15:18

    I fully agree. My motto in my first year of teaching is to not take on any additional roles that aren't directly related to my core business of teaching my kids.

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  onetwothreefour on 20/11/2018 - 13:43

  What do you think of home schooling?

  • 

    sandman87 on 20/11/2018 - 15:21

    I'm not completely against it. Mainly because I know that the different departments of education around the country have teams of people which deal with compliance and ensuring home schooled kids are taught the right stuff. I think that kids in home schooled environments can really miss out on the socialization of school. But parents may also be able to connect in a way thats more effective than a teacher. So theres pros and cons. Personally I wouldn't do it, but I wouldn't judge anyone who did.