This was on the ABC earlier.
Do you think your local council should have such a system(or similar)?
Demerit system for irresponsible pet owners. Should we have one here (like they do in China)?
BewareOfThe Dog on 15/11/2018 - 12:45
Last edited 16/11/2018 - 12:31
Last edited 16/11/2018 - 12:31
Poll Options
- 171Yes
- 32No
Comments
Woof. ;-)
Sit,
roll,
paws,
shake.Good dog.
Here is a cookie.
~_~ I really missed my dogs.
The problem with this system is that it relies on the owner registering their pets, a simple way around the system is not to register your pet
And it is a system that will add financial burden on responsible pet owners to implement and enforce the system.
It is punishing the responsible to punish the irresponsible. Lose lose and a whole lot of added inefficiencies of government in between all that expense.
It is punishing the responsible to punish the irresponsible
That is essentially what all laws are.Where ever you look laws punish the responsible to punish the irresponsible.
If everyone was responsible and did the right thing all the time, there would be no need for laws.
Just to skim the surface on why, in practice, the two scenarios are not equivalent.
I'm willing to pay taxes to fund police that enforce the law because I don't want to be criminally assaulted, murdered, etc etc.
I (for hypothetical reasons, not a pet person) am not willing to pay more tax/rates for a new department that will oversee the welfare of animals by punishing irresponsible pet owners. Animal cruelty law already exists and enforced by the same police department funded as per above scenario.
I'm willing to pay taxes to fund police that enforce the law because I don't want to be criminally assaulted, murdered, etc etc.
You're just afraid of defending yourself and unable to deal with your own problems so you burden everyone else with paying to look after you instead.
It's interesting how you think that society collectively forced - at gun point - to pay the salaries of traffic law enforcers is what stops you from being murdered.
You're just afraid of defending yourself
I am because of the litigation that ensues and the legal restraints on methods in which I can defend myself.
to pay the salaries of traffic law enforcers is what stops you from being murdered.
I think that all tax revenue for policing goes to traffic police, otherwise they'd only be called police as the distinction lable of traffic would be moot.
Also, I don't law enforcement directly prevents crime, but it is a significant barrier to know that law can and will be enforced.
Ps. You forgot the /s
I am because of the litigation that ensues and the legal restraints on methods in which I can defend myself.
You realise those legal restraints literally come from your support for the police. It's not the other way around.
Also, I don't law enforcement directly prevents crime, but it is a significant barrier to know that law can and will be enforced.
The law can be enforced in the sense that if someone kills you then they might go to jail. It doesn't stop you from being killed. At all.
Ps. You forgot the /s
No /s here.
@ausmechkeyboards: I'm not the biggest supporter of any government institution, so you're preaching to the choir but governments are meant to acts as referees so concessions are made for army and law enforcement.
I'm also pro-gun and pro rights to self defense. Again, choir.
Government intervention often sounds good in practice, but in reality the situation gets when whenever the government meddles.
“In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.” Reagan.
Perhaps registration should be mandatory at the initial purchase stage of a pet?
A simple response is to immediately seize any unregistered animals and ban a person or property from owning an animal. Just need to have significant fines that make it undesirable to have an unregistered animal.
Don't we basically already have this with reporting bad pet owners to the council?
They have included taking animals away from owners and making them sit a responsible dog owner test to get it back. I don't think any council requires testing but it's a good idea. Probably a good idea for parents as well.
Why stop at pet ownership?
nope, include parents.
.And kids for that matter…
China is already rating homes/transport/people as well: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/on-demand/2017/12/15/black-mirro…
I don't have a problem with enforcing responsible pet ownership (which we sort of have anyway with reporting to Council or the RSPCA).
But do we really want the full scope that China is working towards:
"China is building a digital dictatorship to exert control over its 1.4 billion citizens. For some, "social credit" will bring privileges, for others, punishment…"
working towardshas implemented
Yes. I have a pet, he is trained not to bark at home and i carry plastic bags to pick up his poop while walking.
you seem to be in the minority with regards to picking up poop..
Yep, we walk our dogs daily (and pick up after them) but the amount of dog crap around the place is amazing. We called out some old geezer that watched his dog take a crap and start to walk away, claimed he forgot bags, so we kindly gave him one of ours, he wasn't too happy about it but at least he picked it up this time.
So we are taking the lead in Animal rights from China?
How many demerits for eating your dog?
How many dogs can you eat before you are suspended from owning a dog?
Or cats or donkeys for that matter.
Eating Dogs is what happens to the Pets after the owner loses their demerits. ;-)
Nothing wrong with consuming dog perse and it's hypocritical to elevate one animal over another for livestock purposes. That said China has a very poor culture to animal ethics in some parts. Don't have a beef man but I'd love a pet cow.
ozbargain is no place for logic. piss off with that
In a sick way, I think it was survival of the fittest due to famine. Those that didn't eat out of ethics/principle, had died while the others had to eat anything to survive.
That said, the younger generation in China are increasingly demanding ethical ownership for dogs/cats and some animals.
Yeah, but there are things wrong with consuming dog.
I would stay away from the brain, liver, kidney, heart, lungs, stomach and intestines. However, the eyes, tail, legs and ribs should be "game".
We can take out the good parts of a country's policy and not become demoralised. You know that, right?
P.S. I upvoted because I found your comment funny, however, I think I disagree with all of your statements made.
I don't see anything wrong with eating dog. If it is, stop eating beef, pork and lamb! They can be pets too.
No. These kinds of rules and systems are (can be) great in theory. They almost always miss out that they're administered by people - who're flawed, can make mistakes, can be corrupted, can hold grudges.
The same system that allows for a pet to be confiscated from an irresponsible owner, is also the exact same system that'll allow a corrupt or vindictive bureaucrat to use it to leverage payments or inflict revenge on innocent and responsible pet owners.
I was looking for a new Kitten, and went on Gumtree. Saw one that I liked, went to visit and paid $50 deposit. Pick up in 4 weeks. Keeping in contact and requesting updates, the owner communicated me that the cat was ill. Supposedly she went to the vet, but I never saw any bills. 1 week before pick-up, she tells me that the cat is still sick. In my view she did not take enough care of the cats, and did not have enough money to go to the vets with them ( She had 4 ). I think they are all dead.
What to do ( I did already write the $50 off ) ? Report to RSPCA ?Report it.
She has another 4 cats, one being the mother of the kittens, the other being the father of the kittens.
Her place was dirty and she is a smoker, and from 3 messages I got on whatspapp she was off her heads several times.@HighAndDry: Just finished doing.
Thanks you for the link. I was hoping the kitten would make it, and I would give one tiny cat a chance/@cameldownunder: Yeah. Adopting from the RSPCA (or just your local vet - some have strays for adoption) also means they'll be desexed, have all their shots, will be registered, etc, plus you're supporting people who'll put the money to use helping animals rather than on… well, smokes and stuff.
@HighAndDry: Agreed from above.
We got Twinkletoes (yes thats her name) from when she and her siblings were stuffed into a vet's letterbox by someone :(
So when we got her, she had her shots & most other things (but wasn't desexed - too young I'd guess)The house now has 4 cats - yes it's madness.
Report to the council as well, in the ACT at least you have to have a permit to keep an undesexed dog or cat and there are penalties for breeding without a licence. Could be similar in whatever state you're in.
Who is going to pay for this to be implemented and enforced?
Council.
Who funds council?
State Government
Property rates
I really don't think China should be a model for any social engineering program.
Which social engineering program should we model after?
one governed by ozbargain Duhh…
Darwin's. (to be completely honest, I probably wouldn't last long under that system - willing to do my part to improve the gene pool though.)
Not sure if that counts as engineering.
Nope. It's pretty average up here.
But China has the population and money to propel it to innovation.
You would only put more money to a problem when its actually a problem.
We're going to be living in a society of IoT and China is likely to lead the charge.
It easy really: If it starts with "China has…", Australia should do the exact opposite.
China has government funded healthcare.
China has a lot of money from state companies.
China has high speed rail connecting major cities.
Sydney-Melbourne have one of the busiest air routes in the world even with our relatively small population.
Melbourne has failed for the last 40 years to construct a rail service between the city centre and its international airport.
But if you watch all the election ads currently both parties will FIX this damn quick.
Or shelve it for another 40 yrs whilst they propose &/or pass other ludicrous ideas for their party sponsors/donors.
(Said as someone who has caught the trains for the past 18yrs day in/out & seen how little improvement there has been)
They "stole" that from Japan, so how about we admire Japan (and their safety record) instead?
Japan developed the high speed rail to fix the really big congestion in their major cities.
Now China just has a population congestion in general, it would make sense that they develop new stuff to fix the problem.
China has gun control policies.
Lots of dog shit here all the time on the footpath on High St, Armadale. Don't know if the oldies are too stiff to bend down and pick up.
Sure it's the dogs? You know what oldies are like.
Those early morning runners are a pain.
Considering Ryde Council don’t even provide poo bag dispensers I suspect they would have zero interest in encouraging responsible pet ownership. They’re only interested in approving high density appartment developments with no investment in infrastructure.
Good thing the Top Ryde Motherhip distracts from all the poop then.
Need a similar demerit system for people with kids.
They eat them in China..
only yellow dog. others dont taste so good
I don't fundamentally disagree with the idea that people should be rewarded for doing the right thing and punished for doing the wrong thing, but the issue is who defines what is right or wrong.
Most things we deal with are not moral issues. For example, is it "wrong" to drive faster than the speed limit or to not pick up your dog's sh1t? It might make you a nuisance or an (profanity), but it doesn't make you an immoral person.
I think we should be careful about policing people's actions. We need to find ways of making people want to do civic duty apart from using fear. People should want to clean up after their pets, for example, because they feel a responsibility to others.
yes it's wrong to drive over the speed limit.
Its wrong to assault people, even if they are terrorists trying to kill people.
Its just easier to walk away.
Wait till they make a voice collar for pet.
Happy happy happy
Chase chase chase
Must bite it must bite it
Psssss arhhhhhhh mine now
Hate you hate you
Scared scared
Must scratch must scratch
Lick lick lick
Turn head, ?????Meanwhile at the RSPCA courts
could we bring dog A to testify against it's abuse owner.I love Doug/Dug from Pixar
They have no right! Stupid rules, puppies are like our children, no body is gonna take our child without fight! This is wrong, a fine is ok but taking your pooch and what are they gonna do eat it? Sounds more like a typical government benefit for then just to make more money.
I have a next door neighbour whose dog barks at possums for hours at a time almost every single night - I actually feel sorry for the dog because it's literally non stop barking for a good hour or two.
But it's been going on for too long now. And I can't tolerate it anymore. It can be after 10pm and the dog won't shut up.
either keep a dog diary (council supplied) or provide 'free' chocolate.
From experience arsenic seems to be a better solution.
Sounds good!
Animals have giant teeth intended for tearing through flesh and its inappropriate that we have unstable people having these killing machines at home - it's really inappropriate that kids have access to them as well.
Mandatory licensing (with tests), background checks and registration of all of these pets is important. The killing machines must also be kept locked up at night in a government-approved shelter and police should have the right to do inspections. You should also have to walk your pet every few months at a licensed pet walking station (if you own a Pitbull Class or similar level license you need to compete in pet athletic events every 6 weeks to keep your Pitbull Class license).
Pet food should be banned on Ozbargain as well, not sure why people think that food for killing machines (that were created for literally no other purpose than to defend and fight for their pack and to create more killing machines) is OK.
All of you right-wingers who want to have these killing machines at home should go back to the 7th century. They don't have a place in our modern society.
You need to read a book buddy.
Should do this for people with children…
Can I like this comment again?
Registering when purchase is what should happen, cracking down on animal mills and pet shops plus enforcing de-sexing unless a licence is obtained would also be good steps. The place where animals are to be stored should be checked to ensure its a adequate space and remove the animals if conditions are not met. It should be for all animals not just dogs.
[RANT]I just took 5 kittens to the pound because irresponsible cat owner let lose their cats and the bloody RSPCA nor our council want nothing to with stray animals. Even worst some mob call themselves Cat protect society want me to pay them each cat 10 dollars for them to keep, so they can sell it to potential buyers, wtf. Those kittens are going to die that what I was told. [END RANT]
I feel like cat owners are the worst (again before anyone gets triggered i know there are responsible owners). I don't know why it's ok to let cats roam freely and harm wild life, crap in your neighbours lawn. Sure they don't bark but that doesn't mean the rest is ok. If you commit to having a bet people got to realise there are sacrifices that needs to be made. Even though what you did sounds harsh, you did the right thing. And lastly keep your damn cats indoors people.
Cats every day cause a lot of dogs to bark somewhere in Australia.
I mean, it doesn't really matter if they harm wild life, only if they harm native wild life. If they're a domesticated house pet and still able to take down normal wild life? Survival of the fittest b****es.
I've lived in 4 houses in Melbourne in 8 years…. Every one has had a dog that barks all day within 100-200m away. Cruel on the dog and very annoying to the neighbours
Yes, everybodies cats live in my yard. Fine the owners after warning.
Because the government does such a great job of regulating everything they already regulate, and the cost of it to us is tiny?
No wonder our politicians take us for fools. We are fools. We invite tyranny.
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