Hi all
In NSW, during double demerit points, driver can lose 10 demerit points.
With only 13 points at max, losing 10 point isn’t bit too much where driver has to wait for 3 years to earn points back?
With all latest safety features and safer cars (+ traffic forcing cars to go slow), what do you think?
The issue is the law is a big stick.
For example I could mount my phone on a cradle and have to swipe up to receive a call - under the rules this would be the same as someone holding a phone with there hands looking down and texting.
It takes as much time as changing the radio station.
Also not even parked, car in P, but engine on you can't use your phone.
There isn't any nuance.
It’s not practical to allow exceptions. Such “nuance” has no practical utility, allows dangerous drivers to get off with convenient excuses, and makes policing impossible.
its not practical, its easy to see if a driver is holding a phone and texting verus someone using it one time on a cradle.
Try riding a bike for a day and seeing how many a'holes use their phones, then tell me about these supposed "safer cars".
Cars are safer to ride in than bikes.
Totally missed the point.
I ride motorbikes and drive trucks. I spend most of my time on the road looking down into people’s cars, and can confirm, all I see on a regular basis is car users on their phones or phones in their lap.
Bikes would be safer if a lot car drivers would just put their phones away for just a little bit and got on with the task of paying it attention and driving safely.
10 should be the normal amount.
As someone who rides a motorcycle, seeing people steer into my lane whilst on a mobile phone is scary as hell. Numerous times I've had this happen to me. When I honk my horn, get their attention at the lights, and indicate the 'Hang up the phone' hand gesture. I either get a dismissive hand wave or the finger. Would be nice to see some of these people get hit with 10 demerits, especially the people who think almost hitting me in my own lane is acceptable. Not too sure if they realise that knocking me off my motorcycle would probably kill me.
i have a gopro session on my helmet with a chin mount, just record them and send it to the cops. totally worth your time
No one likes a rat, better to break their mirror off
I'm pretty sure the (profanity) that side swiped my car was on a phone.
my car parked out front. 40 cms from the lane edge.
heard the screech of brakes and a crash. went outside and the back drivers side behind the wheel arch had been scraped.
other drivers passenger side mirror was on the ground a few metres infront of my car.
bastard just drove off.
Doesn't help you know but get a dashcam with park recording. One incident and you'll get the money back.
I reckon 10+ points should be minimum. These fsckers should be jailed for endangering the lives of others. I’m sure Facebook and Whatsapp can wait.
The only issue I have with it is that you can't touch your phone at all. Like taking it out of your pocket to put it somewhere in the car or connect it to the charger to use Android Auto. This is no more distraction than taking the sunnies out or having a quick glance on your infotainment. We'd literally have to ban everything else than driving cause it is a potential distraction. No more conversations, no more having a sip of water, using the touchscreen of your car, nothing.
I always use handsfree but it's a huge difference when I quickly connect the phone to a charger at a red light (to use Android Auto) or have it on my ear at 60 kmh with heavy traffic or the read/write sms/WhatsApp (which is insane IMHO, especially write). I don't think it is appropriate to have the same punishment for it. And don't mention the argument that I could have connected it before I left. Well, I forget sometimes, I'm not perfect and so aren't you.
It's a fair point you make and I do agree that their should be a level of common sense with application of the law. I absolutely hate seeing drivers trying to text and drive but agree that at the lights there's little harm in connecting your phone for charging or enabling Bluetooth or whatever.
if people are so focused on their phone and cant see a marked or unmarked police car beside them in close enough proximity to catch them. then they arent paying enough attention to their surroundings
I am all for it, people use their mobile phones all the time on the road and its dangerous.
I was driving on a motorway at 100km/h a few weeks and was overtaken by a girl using her phone, with both hands. She literally did not have control of the car.
Thankfully I turned off a second later so didn't have to worry about being run into.
Twice, I almost got knocked over (motorbike) by drivers on their phones, and when you're behind them, it's very obvious why they're so slow off the red.
I'm not going to be a hypocrite and say I've never used my phone while driving. But I only do it if there's no traffic and I'm in a 60 zone. If I get slapped with a fine whatever it is I'll take it.
And this is a classic example of why the fine needs to be more than doubled and 10 points as the base demerits. People need to wake up from this “I only do it when it’s safe” or the “whatever” attitude.
What would it take you to give up? $1,000 fine? $5,000 fine? Or wiping out a mother and two kids who were just trying to cross the road? Maybe not seeing that cyclist? Swerving into the motorcyclist’s lane, causing them to crash to avoid you?
I’m glad your Facebook update is more important than anyone else’s life or property… So long as you aren’t killed, right?
I Don't use Facebook buddy. There are a multitude of other factors that can cause people to crash a car. I have not once in 20 years of driving been in an accident, I'm conscientious if I choose to use my phone which is in a cradle on my dash. Nice try mate but i know I'm not the only one here that uses their phone while driving but pretends to be a saint.
I Don't use Facebook buddy.
"Facebook" is more of an all encompassing euphemism for any time wasting, attention absorbing (anti)social media platform. Sorry I didn't get the exact one that suits your agenda, but the sentiment remains the same. What is more important on your phone that cant wait a few minutes?
There are a multitude of other factors that can cause people to crash a car
Correct. It just happens that "using a mobile phone whilst driving" is right up there with excessive speed, fatigue and drunk driving…
I have not once in 20 years of driving been in an accident
Bully for you! Now, did you actually read my examples above? It's not you I give a rat's arse about. It's the other innocent road users. Driving for 20 years =/= awesome driver…
I'm conscientious if I choose to use my phone
Riiight… 20 years driving and all. And being "conscientious", is that referring to using your phone?
which is in a cradle on my dash.
Not at all mentioned in your original post…
Nice try mate but i know I'm not the only one here that uses their phone while driving
Never said you were the only one here, but your post resonates with the typical attitude of the type that continues to use their phone… That whole self entitled, I'm a good driver, wont happen to me thing you have going there… I just hope it takes a hefty fine to wake you up and not the death of another motorist/cyclist/pedestrian to help you realise how dangerous it actually is..
@pegaxs: You act like everyone has the exact same driving ability. Some people are crap drivers irreguardless of being on a phone or not should they be fined? And I should clarify I rarely if ever use my phone, if i do its for work. But I'm not going to pretend like i never or have never used it while driving. You act like the circumstances in which it is used doesn't matter at all. There's a big difference between using it at a stop light and using it on the freeway with heavy traffic, equivocating the two is just ridiculous.
@Cletus vandamme: I bet your just the besterest driver evera…
Dunning-Kruger Effect… Just gonna leave this there…
if i do its for work.
So, now you are admitting to using the phone while driving and on work time??. Is this not an OH&S issue? I’m sure your boss is happy with you breaking the road rule legislation and OH&S, considering he/she is responsible for your safety and any possible repercussions associated with you having an accident while on the phone while driving for work.
You act like… equivocating the two is just ridiculous.
You done building straw men?
Someone has to say it and it is going to be me. You really are an idiot
So many good stories of why one shouldn’t use mobile phones. But let’s be honest, it’s only a rule now coz it’s a common occurrence ( and of course dangerous when travelling at speed) but most people caught ironically are not caught moving because it’s hard to detect and prosecute, they are caught fully stopped at a light.
I digress from my point, which is, the truth of the matter is, any distraction has the same effect, yet there are no laws against all (or any other) distractions, such
- annoying passengers
- eating
-fatigue
- doing make up
- cutting nails,
- the list goes on.
If we really want to have safe roads, people just need to be more focused and less distracted, and this can’t be fixed by laws or excessive penalties, that in some cases ruin livelihoods whom rely on reliable transport.
So I simply say, give big fines, but don’t just take away their license.
using them at red lights should be excused. imo :)
but i'm happy with instant loss if busted driving.
Saw a woman in Sydney along Anzac parade (I think) doing her eyeliner whilst driving earlier. Not only did she have a pencil on her eye whilst travelling 50k+ she had the sun visor down with a mirror out probably obstructing her view.
There was documentary by TAC (Victorian Transport Accident Commission) about how most people aren't even aware of themselves using a mobile phone, even when they are told they are going to be filmed to see how often they are doing it.
it is about time. even better they should give 6 mths suspension on the spot to any drivers who use their mobile phone without any handsfree device (those who use it to make calls) while the car is on the road.
those who have to look at their mobile while driving… hopefully this will be a kick in the butt to force a habit change :p
It's only a matter of time before you get caught you end up on death row
So touching the car info screen is ok, but not ok if you use a phone mount and touch the phone screen, I consider these 2 things being the same thing.
and how about Uber drivers, they use a phone mount and need to touch it all the time
So it is allowed for cops not only driving but chasing cars while using the onboard computer plus talking to the radio but not people doing simple things. I do support more strict road rules but if cops can be trained to do multiple things while driving so should we. How about a special license after training/property tests to allow people using phone to make calls? Texting is definitely not a good idea.
We as human learn to adapt changes. After proper training and equipment, normal driver can be educated where little things such as touching phones to enable some features should be allow.
I have seen drivers smoking or using sunnies or having coffee or sandwich while driving which is sort of same as using mobile phones for a second but former one doesn’t attract penalty
Those other activities do not require the same amount of concentration as using a phone. Even using a phone hands free has been tested and found to be equivalent to driving exceeding the drink driving limit. Staring at a screen while fumbling with a tiny touch screen keyboard takes your eyes off the road too..
Quite frankly I don’t think it should be 10 points for talking on a mobile,but texting on a mobile yes,as it’s far worse
I doubt a driver can "Loose" points.
Perhaps "lose", but not loose.
if you want to get technical you don't lose points you start with 0points and incur demerit points
If the laws were set according to many of the comments on here there would be:
Yes, we should publicly flog or stone offenders each week in the town square.
There are certain things that can be accidental, then there are things which are completely and utterly intentional.
For example, should people be punished for going 5 km/h over the speed limit? In my opinion, no, because that can be accidental. We've all cruised before and looked down and seen that we're a little bit over. I sympathise with people who get caught out by cameras for going <10 km/h over. There is also an argument to be made that constantly looking down at your speedo is actually counter-productive in zones where you have 40 km/h or so because you're better off being alert to see if there's a kid running across the road randomly. Either way, that's my two cents.
With mobile phone usage (and quite frankly, a lot of other dumb things), drivers know full well what they're doing. Nobody accidentally picks up a phone and uses it without knowing that they are doing something illegal. This should be punished heavily. Not only is it intentional, but it's also very unsafe. Having a 1s slower is much worse than driving much faster.
My problem with speed cameras is people don't keep left as they are too scared to overtake and then go into the left lane
The problem is that if there is no penalty for going 5 or 10 km/hr over people will see that speed as normal and it becomes a kind of de facto speed limit. It also encourages drivers to push the limits rather than driving conservatively, which is what all drivers should be doing.
In the street where I live the speed limit is 50km/hr but it's very common for vehicles to be travelling above that, quite a number at 60km/hr or more. Even with the slight increase in speed I can sense it's a more dangerous environment for all the kids and families here.
Understandable in 50 zones, but I'm talking about highways/freeways
I wouldn't mind the penalty being 4000 demerit points, I don't understand how people are stupid enough to continue staring at their phones whilst operating heavy machinery.
The way I see it, there should be different categories of mobile phone usage. If someone is speeding through a school zone staring straight down at their lap without looking up, it's clearly not the same thing as someone sitting in a traffic jam 20 cars behind the lights with a red light and just doing something quickly for 5 seconds.
You really can't argue that they're the same risk profile at all. And they already have degrees of offence for things like speeding, where they don't pretend that going 5 over is the same as 45 over, so I think they should have categories of seriousness for this.
The advantage of having different degrees of seriousness would be that you could have both camps in this debate satisfied. The people imagining the dangerous scenario and thinking it should be highly punished can have that be true. And the people who are picturing themselves stuck in a huge traffic jam just quickly SMSing to say they'll be late, they can also be more happy about not nearly losing their licence over something fairly minor.
This approach would lead to greater justice.
The other thing I'd like to add is that it'd be great if we could get a little more clarity over exactly what is allowed. With many people using their phones for GPS navigation or playing songs, where is the line in what is acceptable? It seems to vary by state also.
But the threshold cases would be things like when you're not a P plater, you have your phone mounted securely with a mount and you have Google maps open giving turn by turn directions, is it then illegal to touch the screen just to slide ahead a bit and see what the road ahead looks like? This certainly isn't illegal with a dedicated GPS or inbuilt car gps system, from what I can tell, but I'm not certain if it's a phone. Perhaps even if it is illegal, any reasonable cop wouldn't pull you up on it.
The other is using it for music. It's obvious that texting isn't legal, but if you have the phone mounted somewhere and you hit next track, is that illegal? It definitely isn't illegal to type a song name into your inbuilt car head unit and search through your songs, because it isn't a phone. Is the same exact action illegal on a mounted phone?
I reckon it'd actually help improve safety in some cases if they said ok this is what you're allowed to do and how. And here's what you're not allowed to do and why. If there's ambiguity then people are more likely to hide their phone in their lap to change songs or to look at for GPS, just because it's far less likely to be seen by passing cops. And in this case the phone is way down in your lap instead of up near the windscreen where peripheral vision could potentially see risks coming sooner.
And advising people how to use things like Siri to reply to an SMS could be educating people of a safer method.
Too often, the legal/political approach to things is "just don't do anything illegal alright!" when instead it could be "here's how best to do these common things safely", which is likely far more helpful in achieving the safer outcomes.
It's currently completely legal to smoke whilst driving unless you have a young (< 16) individual in your vehicle.
Disposing of your ash/butt outside the window is considered dumping / littering.
Car pollution is significantly more impactful than cigarette smoke, so there isn't really a concern for a cause of pollution.