So my understanding of road rules when it comes to roundabouts is that you give way to the right to vehicles on the roundabout. I've gotten in a few near misses by pulling onto a roundabout when it was clear ( no cars to give way to ) only for a car to approach at a much faster speed and almost t-bone me.
I'm I right in my assumption or should we give way to a car approaching at speed even if not on the roundabout?
Thanks Ozb
If you are entering at the same time and at the same speed as someone o your right, then you can go ahead. If they are going faster, you should give way. This is the way an instructor taught me and it’s worked for many years
You assess their speed as you approach. But you shouldn’t be slowing down more than necessary anyway, so they shouldn’t be that much faster than you. If they often are, you might be slowing down too much
Would be better if vehicles had to STOP before proceeding but that would afect traffic flow
\
Terrible idea. Learn how to use a roundabout. The whole point is that you don’t have to stop
That is a fundamental flaw in the Roads and Road Safety departments' policy — they routinely change laws, but rarely make an effort to advertise them, or properly educate the public. It is presently incumbent on the public to educate themselves on any changes, rather the government to do so — it would be incredibly easy for State Road authorities to share the information with drivers every time they renew their licenses, which would inform and educate the majority of Australians.
Very true, from watching everyone using roundabouts it seems everyone follows a different series of rule changes and no one really knows what the latest rule is?
I'm not even sure what the latest rules on using roundabouts are but I try to use common sense and the version of the rules that I believe are the safest, logical and practical.
I still see people indicating to exit the roundabout even when it is a small roundabout. I don't even know if this is still the rule but I thought it was phased out?
I'm I right in my assumption or should we give way to a car approaching at speed even if not on the roundabout?
Depends if you want to die for the sake of being "right". Being right doesn't always mean you're being smart.
only for a car to approach at a much faster speed
You are in the right however most people in NSW at least do not follow the road rules at roundabouts. Most driver in NSW only care about themselves and no one else on the road. Often people will speed up when approaching a roundabout to stop someone from entering it from their left who has been waiting for sometime, (and shock horror) believing that by having to wait at a roundabout, precious time will be added to their travel journey.
Anyone approaching a roundabout should slow down and be prepared to give way. This then allows them to avoid any potential accidents.
the dude is talking about entering roundabouts from a standing stop. it sounds like he doesnt know how to use a roundabout. bad drivers arent just speeders, people stopping for no reason can be even worse. everyone else must think he is giving way, and suddenly he pulls out in front of them
You shouldn’t ‘give way to speed’ ever. However, part of the art of driving defensively is recognising when a car is not going to stop or slow and not putting yourself in harms way, which might mean that you don’t enter an intersection or ruondabout when a speeding car is approaching.
I was trying to find a way of saying the same thing. But yes, I agree. Use best judgement.
Also, I hope people realize that "giving way to cars already on the roundabout" applies to the other car as well - at the time you're waiting to enter the roundabout, you're not on the roundabout either, so another car also entering the roundabout technically (we're dealing with technicalities remember) doesn't have to give way either.
That's the whole point of roundabouts, multiple vehicles can navigate the intersection simultaneously!
Give way to any vehicle to your right.
Others are mentioning in the roundabout . You are NOT in the roundabout. You see the other vehicle approaching at a speed where they would likely hit you (or near miss) if you decide not to give way, then you are at fault .
If you are already in the roundabout before they can possibly be seen approaching, then that is a different story. But if you choose not to give way to the vehicle approaching on your right, then you are clearly at fault for these "near misses" and eventually likely collision .
What are you going to say to the judge ? "I decided not to give way to my right your honour" . Lol
The road rules are simple: A driver entering a roundabout must give way (slow down and, if necessary, stop) to any vehicle in the roundabout.
Nothing about vehicles on your right. If you are already in the roundabout before the other vehicle they must give way and if they fail to slow down or stop in time then they are at fault.
Yes, except in the situations we're talking about, OP also isn't in the roundabout yet themselves. Do we really want a situation where you're racing to see who technically gets into the roundabout first?
Also, when OP gets T-boned right after they enter the roundabout. The front of their car may have travelled about 5m into the roundabout. But the car that OP pulled out on has travelled at least twice that distance inside the roundabout. Therefore, unless OP has forensic evidence of the speed of the other car, the other car was first into the roundabout by default every day of the week.
Simple and bad IMO
Road rules should be borne from common sense and when applied should give good margins of safety.
As mentioned earlier in the thread; on a small single lane round about a crash can be easily caused between cars with the at fault driver having less than 10m to respond to the “rule obeying” car.
The following news article explains the rules, misconception and what fines you can incur if you fail to give way:
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/on-th…
"When approaching a roundabout always give way to your right….This common roundabout rule is actually a myth, one that could cost up to $450….The actual rule dictates that drivers must slow or stop to give way to any vehicles already on the roundabout…."Drivers should enter the roundabout when it is safe to do so.”….The rule is the same for all states and territories in Australia and carries some pretty heavy penalties for those who ignore it….Everyone should slow down on approach to a roundabout."
drivers must slow or stop to give way to any vehicles already on the roundabout
This technically doesn't mean you don't have to give way to vehicles just because they're not on the roundabout. (Edit: Holy triple negative Batman…. but in this case it's actually required to give the precise meaning. I think. Better phrasing might be: "This is true, but this still leaves it open for you to have to give way to vehicles not on the roundabout in certain situations.")
And combined with this rule:
Drivers should enter the roundabout when it is safe to do so.
Still supports a practical application of "give way to vehicles to your right", especially if they're approaching and are close to the roundabout.
That news article is terrible, all the example images are wrong, or go agaist tbe first point they first make:
“If people approaching the roundabout are unnecessarily giving way to all cars coming from their right then it impedes on the flow of traffic.”
Image 1: says to give way to red car that is on the right but not yet in the roundabout.
Image 2: red car is indicating left?
Image 3: giving way to a car that is doing a full loop of a round about….. Which is contrary to the first point made in the article
Has already been mentioned above, but the official rule is we do not need to give way to anyone other than cars already inside the roundabout.
So by this logic it's just a matter of "who's first". So yes if you're both approaching but the other car is going faster you should give way.
It's a myth that we have to give way to the right, so people drive straight through assuming you will give way.
It's wide spread enough that I'd suggest going along with the social expectation of giving way to the right regardless of whether the car's already in the roundabout.
My rule/etiquette is to give way to vehicles already on the roundabout.
If they're leaving the roundabout on my right then I'll enter it even if there are vehicles waiting to enter.
If there is someone waiting to enter on the right or speeding towards the roundabout on my right then I'll let them enter first especially on small roundabouts. On a bigger roundabout we could all enter at once so I'll go.
If there is someone waiting across from me we should both be able to enter at the same time so I'll go.
If there is someone waiting on my left then I'll enter the roundabout and proceed with caution as they have the right to enter too.
Give way to vehicles already in the roundabout and don’t give way to vehicles not in the roundabout works every time. Nothing could be easier.
Not if they are flying and think they have right of way because of that
Yeah I'm not going to risk my car like that either. Then again I also tend to wait until someone makes a turn if they are coming towards me and indicating, I simply don't trust what other drivers on the road are doing.
Sadly there are more and more drivers out there with a "who dares wins" attitude. They might be in the wrong but they dare you to not give way. This includes both not giving way to vehicles already in the round-about or not giving way to the right. Some doesn't even bother to slow down and just drive straight through at speed.
I have many many near misses over the last year. I could have t-boned or get t-boned quite a few times if I wasn't expecting these kind of idiots on the road. They should be caught and disqualified for a year because they are a safety concern to other drivers.
How about the use of indicators on roundabouts , this is also a requirement as well unless traveling straight through.
Roundabouts are used to increase traffic flow , not to be a Hazzard.
In NSW you have to indicate left as you approach the exit of the roundabout, even if you're going straight through. There was a big campaign about it a while back, but very few people seem to remember that one.
The law actually says "if practicable". It's a pretty big loophole.
http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104…
My rule is 'Give way to anyone who looks like they are not going to stop for me'.
I may have right of way but it's not worth forcing the issue and end up having an accident, especially when nowadays so many drivers haven't got insurance.
The majority of drivers don't know or don't care who is in the right at a roundabout they just plough through regardless.
I remember I failed the P1 test in NSW, because not giving way to vehicle is approaching roundabout, let say 5-10 meters before crossing the line into roundabout. So now my lesson is "defensive driving", if some vehicle approaching my car, and probably my car does not have time to escape the hit, even if I am right or I am in the round about first, I will stop and give way.
Cannot expect everyone has rules in their mind. Not only once time I am in the round about and another car nearly hit me on the LEFT.
There are 2 ways to enter a roundabout based on my observations over many years.
1. Pull up at the entrance and only move in to the roundabout when everyone honks at you, or
2. Enter at high speed without hesitation with your eyes closed.
As someone who was hit by someone coming from my right in a roundabout (they were NOT in the roundabout at the time that I entered, it was a huge, two lane roundabout and the accident happened because I was in the left lane going straight through and he was in the right lane of the road to the right, doing the same thing - he assumed I was going to turn left and go off where he did and collided with my front driver's side corner) GIVE WAY.
Doesn't matter what the rules say about them being in the roundabout or not, if they hit you and they came from your right, you WILL be blamed. No matter what the other factors are, unless you have actual dashcam footage of them doing the wrong thing, insurance agencies hear "roundabout" and "came from my right" and default to assuming you made the mistake. It sucks, but it's not worth the risk and the cost. Wait till you're confident that the visible gap before the next vehicle is big enough for you.
This is what i was saying before. That car you pulled out on has travelled more distance inside the roundabout than you have. Period. Therefore logic states that car was in the roundabout first, and you should have given way to it.
It doesnt really matter that your tyre crossed the line into the roundabout 1ms before theirs did. And even if you somehow had proof of that, you would probably need to lawyer up to prove you were technically right.
As someone who was also hit from the side (rear -side), my experience has been the same.
Swann insurance initially said on the phone that it seems like the other guy hit me and was clearly in the wrong. However the final outcome was decided that I was in the wrong.
One reason they gave is that they couldn't prove speed.
The other driver came flying down a hill, straight into me while I was on the roundabout…
Anyway I changed away from swann. But I'm sure other insurance companies would be just as bad.
Need dash cams with huge field of view, maybe that will help, but then I'm sure there will still be some reason you lose…
On a side note, there was no visible damage to the other car, mine had a small dent with scratches. Apparently that was $3K damage to his car and $2K damage to mine. Funny how these panel shops charge insurance companies crazy markups.
So you were deemed to be at fault by the insurance agency?
Yes I was deemed at fault.
I was 21 at the time and didn't think to fight it. But now being older, I'm sure I could have argued the fact that initially on the phone the insurance company rep stated it was obviously the other persons fault.
I've become much better at negotiating with companies to get a better outcome these days (after working in various sales jobs including finance and insurance).
Why would you enter a roundabout at a speed that will not let you clear the path of an adjacent vehicle? You should never assume the other vehicle will slow or stop for you.
Would you turn left/right onto a road from a side street without making sure you won’t be impeding traffic already on the road?
I'd accept that we were both at fault.
However if the other driver wasn't speeding I would not have been there when he hit me.
I entered the roundabout without expecting someone to approach at the speed they did.
Anyway it seems that opinions are divided.
I'd like to also add one last thing , every day on the way to work I could hit someone on roundabouts in the same way that the other driver hit me. But I choose to apply my brakes instead.
Do I have quicker reactions or am I more focussed than the driver who hit me, maybe.
Or maybe the other guy had a crap car and was a bit too happy to hit me.
Doesn’t matter if the other driver was speeding. You need to look at oncoming traffic and determine whether it is safe to proceed.
How do you cross the road without getting mowed down by every driver?
Stuff that truck or p plater approaching from the right with no signs of braking, if I make it first I am in like Flynn.
Subscribe to "Dash Cam Owners Australia" on Facebook, watch a few monthly compilations and answer this for yourself.
Seriously though, if you are first to the roundabout and it is safe to do so, you have right of way and should go.
Always make a judgement call, and make sure the other car appears to be breaking. I am one of those a-holes who makes sure traffic has stopped before proceeding on a green light. Far too many near misses with people running red lights, flying through give-way or stop-signs.
Just read my comment, noticed autocorrect changed braking to breaking. A break now sounds good.
I am one of those a-holes who makes sure traffic has stopped before proceeding on a green light.
Honestly this is just a reasonable level of care.
Should we be discussing muti-lane round-abouts ,
and how to get off one once you're on the
merry-go-round ?
The rule is to Give way to ALL vehicles in the roundabout.
NOT Give way to the RIGHT
Its a case of "first in, best dressed".
But common sense will tell you to watch out for any vehicle likely to collide with you.
A spokesman from NRMA, Peter Khoury, told news.com.au that waiting for cars on your right if you get to the roundabout before them can impact the traffic flow.
“We are not quite sure where this misconception comes from,” he said.
“If people approaching the roundabout are unnecessarily giving way to all cars coming from their right then it impedes on the flow of traffic.”
Mr Khoury added that: “Drivers should enter the roundabout when it is safe to do so.”
But as has been stated above, the insurance agencies do not follow this rule. Would be good if they did but unless you have hard evidence that you did the right thing and entered the roundabout first then it looks like insurance companies will take the view that you must give way to the right.
Yes but you caused an accident immediately upon entering the roundabout. Therefore it wasnt safe for you to enter. Fault is pretty clear, unless you can prove the other car was speeding. And if they were doing the speed limit or under, then it doesnt really matter who entered first. you are still sol.
you don't give way to someone on the left of you going straight or indicating left, even if they are on the round about.
you don't give way to someone in front of you indicating left, even if on round about.
Is it so hard to just go when you know someones not going to hit you lol
Ready Set Go!
depends where they entered the round about. law also states to give way if they entered in front of you and indicating right.
but if you were on the roundabout first they should give way.
What about p platers drifting around the roundabout with their hazards on
Should I
a. get infront of them and see if I can hook them with the towbar?
b. give them a love tap with the bullbar as they smoke past?
c. join in?
d. take the bus?
Imagine all the people in heaven (or hell) that is still crying "But I had the right of way". I’ve driven in multiple countries/continent, common sense usually prevails.
it sounds like a lot of you think you should stop and crawl through roundabouts. this is wrong. you should only slow down enough to safely proceed through the roundabout, assess traffic as you approach, and potentially stop if you will impede anyone in the roundabout, regardless of whether they have already entered or not
if you needlessly stop or slow down too much, it will look like you are giving way. better drivers than you will try to drive through the roundabout only for you to suddenly pull out in front of them like some blind old idiot. you will blame them for speeding, because they happen to know the difference between a roundabout and a traffic light
i go through round abouts in reverse just to be extra safe
There is no such thing as roundabout etiquette….
Law is law…
There is only one road rule and that is to drive defensively
If in doubt dont go
Never had a problem at roundabouts, but I tend to always give my situational awareness a good work. I always quickly scan all approaches on the go to a roundabout before entering if environment allows (ie. obstacles) and enter with caution. I always drive as if everyone is out to get me.
The only time this is ever a problem is for people who crawl around roundabouts at 5km/h.
For everyone else, the simple act of "give way to the people on the right" is good enough.
Honestly, if you arrive at a roundabout 0.5second before the guy on the right and you still pull into the roundabout and claim "I was there first therefore you have to give way to me" - you're a (profanity) and you're going to cause an accident.
Roundabout roulette anyone ?
I know it’s not the law but what happens in real life is that we give way to the cars approaching with speed into the roundabout on the right; otherwise there is a risk of a collision.
Jeez… put a curve in a road and all of sudden people lose their minds!
Ignore the "roundabout" concept entirely. Think of it as a normal intersection with Give Way signs in all directions.
If you get to the intersection first, LOOK in the intersection to see if anyone is in it. If there is, don't go!
If there isn't, GO!
If other cars come to their Give Way sign and blow through it without first checking to see if anyone is in the intersection, then THEY are at fault.
IT'S A NORMAL GIVE WAY INTERSECTION!
The fact the road is curved doesn't change the rules and allow for 'someone to your right to have the right of way' automatically, even if they haven't gotten to the intersection yet! The road markings and signage is exactly the same.
They have a Give Way sign to abide by as well. Just because they are travelling fast doesn't give them any special rights. It's a Give Way sign… and they need to be travelling at a speed that allows them to stop at the line if needed.
Commonsense prevails though. If you can see a collision is about to occur, don't go regardless of right.
Off topic, but I've noticed that it's more dangerous to drive down a straight road with right of way if you're the only car or bike on the road. I think people in countries with mostly-followed road rules (like Australia) who aren't as used to near-misses get complacent with their expectations, and this becomes dangerous when they forget or are unaware of their physiologically-defined 12-15 degree temporal blindspot. I imagine when a vehicle (a bike especially) is missed by the blind spot of the right eye, the left eye's compensatory field of vision may be obstructed by the car's frame. The brain can only fill in so much information.
The fact that you have to ask is half the problem. It's a roundabout, not rocket science. If it's clear go, if not then don't. But.. Don't sit there all day thinking about it. Look where the cars are and merge your way in smoothly so as to not hit or be hit. Half the problem on our roads is from indecisive drivers who have no sense of awareness and can't go with the flow. (awaiting negs from the handbook police)
Flow is important, I 100% agree.
It's like merging onto a hwy from the on ramp slip lane. Find a gap, pace your speed, and safely merge without causing others already on the road to brake or change lanes.
But unfortunately, that awareness we both speak of is very hard to teach. Some people are just horrible with spatial awareness.
It's why men are generally better at driving (flame suit on!). But before the feminazi's go cray cray, read this:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/study-finds-some-sign…
And cut and paste of pertinent paragraph:
"Adjusting for age, on average, they found that women tended to have significantly thicker cortices than men. Thicker cortices have been associated with higher scores on a variety of cognitive and general intelligence tests. Meanwhile, men had higher brain volumes than women in every subcortical region they looked at, including the hippocampus (which plays broad roles in memory and spatial awareness), the amygdala (emotions, memory, and decision-making), striatum (learning, inhibition, and reward-processing), and thalamus (processing and relaying sensory information to other parts of the brain)."
Processing sensory information, decision making and spatial awareness…. pretty important factors when driving a car ;).
I don't need to worry about other drivers - I just make sure to head through the roundabout at more than 141.6223km/h…
The problem is there is a big difference between a small roundabout and a normal sized roundabout. I live in Bundaberg where it seems to be a fad to change intersections to roundabouts. Here is a five-way roundabout near my house: https://www.google.com/maps/@-24.8709088,152.3605641,17.59z .
With only a few metres gap between the streets, it means that if the road rule of giving way to traffic only on the roundabout then it would just be one crash after another.
You can certainly enter the roundabout before a car on your right does but if they approach the roundabout at a decent speed you both have no chance of avoiding a crash - factoring in distance, reaction times etc.
Discretion is the better part of valour.
People should realise roundabouts in residential zones are NOT the same as roundabouts on main streets/highways. I regularly experience what the OP describe in suburban Melbourne, several near misses due to drivers using residential streets as shortcuts instead of the congested main roads.
I think it's time to legislate mandatory fully operational dashcams on every vehicle on the road, make it a roadworthy requirement.
It’s give way to any traffic already in the roundabout it doesn’t matter if they are left right or opposite… however nobody knows the rule and give way to right is now defacto
Now, this seems like the perfect place to vent about what happened to me two weeks ago :)
Was driving back from the shops and hit a roundabout. Did a left, right and the, left check again. All good.
I started going in, driving into the roundabout at probably 10-15km, first left.
As I was starting to turn my car to the right to complete my exit, this mf-er of a cyclist came out of nowhere from my right and was in front of me. Startled the everlasting bejesus out of me.
I slammed my brakes. He turned to stare at me before continuing on his way.
Now, I know from an insurance standpoint (it's kinda my job and plus, I have reliable co-workers) that I would have been deemed not at fault but, I proceeded to have an argument with my mother who believes at a) the cyclist wouldn't have been speeding too fast (f no) and b) I should have given way to him since he was coming from the right.
Thoughts?
Cyclist fault for not wearing bright colours and having LED daytime riding lights ON.
a few have mentioned above, and i tend to agree, in Victoria it's give way to right unless you enter the roundabout first….it seems very logical as well
my friend got his driving license test marked as failed as he proceeded to move in to a roundabout after giving way to the rihgt (no vehicle already in roundabout) but there was a car approaching in to the roundabout (not yet entered). It was a 60 zone.
The TMR official's reason for marking it as fail was .. the car approaching is at a higher speed and my friend was starting from zero speed. So judgement was wrong even though he was right on the rules. Rules only doesnt count and avoiding an accident is the main criteria .
If you're nearly getting t-boned, you're doing roundabouts wrong. Unless they're coming from your left.
Them speeding is part of the give-way.
I'm going to quote RMS again because I think most people still think it's give way to the car to the right.
RMS:
Approaching a roundabout: Vehicles entering a roundabout must give way to any vehicle already in the roundabout.
Whoever enters the roundabout first has right of way
[NSW]
Just thought I’d post this as I’m alarmed by the amount of people who think there only exist 1 give way rule for roundabouts, that is, you only need to give way to vehicles that are currently in a roundabout.
There is a reason why there is a red border around a roundabout sign, it obeys both roundabout and give way rules.
That is, give way to anyone currently on the roundabout, and anyone entering or approaching the intersection (give way to right).
Have a look at the highlighted rule book references: https://bit.ly/2MnYEwY
Honestly the "proper legal way" is badly thought out. Say there's a person about the enter the roundabout on your right as you're also about the enter the roundabout. Neither of you are actually on the roundabout yet - in that situation by the road rules you don't need to give way, and yet every bit of prudence says you certainly should.