Annoying neighbor launching STRATA noise complaints

frostman on 24/07/2018 - 13:02

Howdy,

Been living in a multi-story apartment for 4 years or so which I purchased
Recently an annoying (tenant/renter) neighbor moved in below us and has been so for 12 months or so.

He's submitted 2 formal complaints to STRATA in a matter of 5 weeks advising of breach of 'noise by-law' due to noise attributed to 'thumping'.

I have a fair idea why it is, it's just the little kids (under 5) occasionally playing or running around during hide n seek or so.
I.e nothing out of the ord such as post midnight, or anything stupid, so the guy is over-reacting here.

I spoke to my STRATA that sent me the warning and ask what could happen after this? They said another 1-2 complaints and I can be issued with a fine or attend a COURT??? WTF

So my response is that let the annoying person record the noises so I can see what the hell it is, or enter the noise breach in a diary.
But at this stage its my word against his, and I can guarantee aside from some occasional and isolated running footsteps I cannot chain the kids

Any other thoughts???

Home & Garden

Comments

  • rambutann on 24/07/2018 - 13:19
    +31

    I would suggest talking to the people making the complaints and asking them what their concerns are instead of speculating.

    My partner once rented a brand new apartment - she was the first to live in it. The building was horribly built, no insulation, all wood on the inside (really nice apartment though).

    She was unable to walk in her place whilst wearing shoes, she had to slide around in socks to avoid a noise complaint from the person below her - she would still receive noise complaints because it was just so badly insulated.

    After numerous complaints they eventually had to get in an acoustics engineer and determined that it was in fact a piece of crap building.

    No idea what the resolution was as she moved out.

    • Pootie Tang on 24/07/2018 - 13:32
      +13

      I have this above me now. Drives me crazy. I swear the tenant above is a lady of the night. High heels at all hours. Yet to complain.

    • frostman on 24/07/2018 - 13:47

      After numerous complaints they eventually had to get in an acoustics engineer and determined that it was in fact a piece of crap building.

      OP: Who's going to pay for that? I dont expect our Sinking fund should do it,

      • rambutann on 24/07/2018 - 13:54
        +4

        Yes I would assume that the sinking fund would have paid for this.

        In saying this, this was an extremely poor quality building. If your building is a solid concrete building then the issue may be yourself.

      • Zedsdeadbabyzedsdead on 24/07/2018 - 14:15

        I don't want the stinking fund to pay either and certainly not Skanky Daniels…

    • HighAndDry on 24/07/2018 - 14:44

      But the previous occupants below OP apparently never had a problem, so I'm going to side with OP here. They're not the newcomers, the downstairs neighbour is.

      • rambutann on 24/07/2018 - 14:47
        +6

        The previous occupants may have been awkward turtles that never wanted to face the issue.

        • HighAndDry on 24/07/2018 - 14:48
          +1

          Default assumption should be that they're normal people right? But the OP says their kids are playing handball in the corridor (I hope inside their apartment), which is "wtf".

        • frostman on 24/07/2018 - 16:36

          @HighAndDry: well handball as in passing a tennis ball to eachother, the corridor is long…common its kids stuff

        • HighAndDry on 24/07/2018 - 16:55
          +2

          @frostman: No - my question is, is this inside the apartment? If yes, that's fine. But if your kids are throwing a ball around outside on common property… no, that's not what those corridors are for. Take them to a park or something… or even just outside the building (if there's space) - that common property might be better for them to play in.

        • Zedsdeadbabyzedsdead on 24/07/2018 - 18:07
          +4

          @HighAndDry: "normal people right?"

          There is no such thing…

        • YTW on 25/07/2018 - 00:12

          @frostman: Take the ball off them. Give them a balloon to hit to each other down the hallway instead (using hands). Way more fun than a ball and a lot less noise.

        • gromit on 25/07/2018 - 16:49
          +2

          @frostman: I was really on your side till I saws the comment that you allow them to play handball inside. That really isn't acceptable or reasonable noise and is easily mitigated by a simple rule of "no ball games inside".

        • EnALup on 25/07/2018 - 18:06

          @gromit: true. There is sometimes other side of story which is difficult to guess unless other side joins in or OP writes that down. In this case, OP wrote accidentally I suppose.

      • josho9 on 24/07/2018 - 20:12

        The previous occupants may also not have been around very much, e.g. jobs with significant overtime.

      • Dan_ on 25/07/2018 - 21:51
        +2

        OP said the kids were under 5. They wouldn't have been capable of making the same level of noise with the previous occupants.

        I'd be pretty pissed off too if I could hear kids playing ball games in the corridor as soon as I come home from work (especially if there is no ambient noise). It was OP's choice to have kids while living in an apartment, it's OP's responsibility to make sure they don't disturb the neighbours.

    • RefusdClassification on 24/07/2018 - 23:24
      +12

      Typical Australian housing. Super expensive and of crap quality. Housing in Europe is of much high standard: double brick walls, double or triple glazing on the windows.

      • [Deactivated] on 25/07/2018 - 19:07
        +1

        yeah, also not true.

        Source: Lived there ~30 years.

        Happened to me numerous times in Europe. Both on receiving and on giving end. The insulation between apartments is abysmal. I could hear the neighbors taking a cr$p.

      • Robydc on 26/07/2018 - 11:20

        Yeah that may be true, but the houses in Europe are built to withstand the deep cold of Winter. Australia by contrast is mild.
        Also agree, quality has dropped here, just look at a 70's/80's red brick unit blocks and they are built solid.

        • susmind on 26/07/2018 - 18:51

          Yep, but still get door slam/shut noise, toilet, shower noise but luckyly only studios so no kids noise.

    • Munki on 25/07/2018 - 20:52
      +1

      Why was she trying to wear shoes in the apartment in the first place? Ewww.

      • brongz on 25/07/2018 - 21:16
        -6

        She’s not Asian (maybe). The same thing you can say about toilet paper. It’s cultural thing.
        Or squat toilet is another thing that is hard to find here. So make sure you sit on, not squat on Australian toilet.

        • Munki on 25/07/2018 - 23:25
          +11

          I know plenty of white people who don't wear shoes in the house. Don't try to turn this into a racial thing.

        • Jackson on 26/07/2018 - 08:21

          @Munki: I agree, but forums are places for stereotypes. You might even be one :)

        • Munki on 26/07/2018 - 09:55

          @Jackson: Oh I absolutely am. I know there are dozens of us here. Dozens! Hell, Scottie's one of us!

        • CzarZ on 27/07/2018 - 02:28

          @Munki:
          White person here raised "Asian" to not wear shoes inside the house. You're tracking in god knows what into your abode!

        • Excelsior on 27/07/2018 - 13:19

          @CzarZ:
          Replace "Asian" with "common sense".

  • Rifraf on 24/07/2018 - 13:21
    +1

    You say not after midnight but just how late?

    You have neighbours, so does the noise coming from your residence reflect the close proximity of your neighbours?

    If there is only reasonable noise coming from your residence why would you be worried about a Strata investigation?

    • frostman on 24/07/2018 - 13:46
      +3

      You have neighbours, so does the noise coming from your residence reflect the close proximity of your neighbours?

      OP: Well kids usually sleep by 8, plus they're not on caffeine or Redbull, at max a play session would last 10-15mins

      If there is only reasonable noise coming from your residence why would you be worried about a Strata investigation?

      OP: Nothing at all, I am not worried about the investigation, just any costs that can be associated

      • Godric on 24/07/2018 - 13:50
        +35

        We know you're OP without you saying 'OP:'

        • frostman on 24/07/2018 - 13:52

          ok will edit my responses

        • HighAndDry on 24/07/2018 - 18:12
          +1

          @frostman: Just for future reference, "OP" stands for "Original Poster", i.e. the person who posted the thread.

        • Shadowsfury on 27/07/2018 - 08:29
          +2

          So it doesn't mean overpowered?

  • angusngon9 on 24/07/2018 - 13:22
    +2

    i honestly think knocking on your door would make life easier in the first place.

    but. i think somewhere it says he will have to demonstrate that the noise is offensive so he will need to keep a logbook or maybe do some acoustic testing before he can do you some harm.

    but in saying that i wouldn't like to upset my neighbours in general so maybe put down some carpets if you have hard flooring?

    • frostman on 24/07/2018 - 13:48
      -1

      I have flooring and have carpet in main area…only area without carpet is the corridor which is around 6M long.
      This I think is where they play post…

      • angusngon9 on 24/07/2018 - 14:23
        +7

        well that could be the problem, see if you can access the noise register or maybe invest in one of those long corridor carpets?

        unrelated but i live next to kids who like to run and slam themselves against the wall/bounce balls against dining room walls.damn annoying it is.

      • HighAndDry on 24/07/2018 - 18:01
        +3

        Buy a plush rug for the corridor? Or just a rubber playmat…

      • josho9 on 24/07/2018 - 20:15
        +2

        So about $60 of runners from Ikea.

      • Love a bargain on 25/07/2018 - 12:26
        +5

        This is likely the issue.

        The unit upstairs swapped the standard carpet to hard flooring (wood/ laminate/ etc) - like what many people are doing these days. (Went to the open house when the unit was up for sale.) A family with a young boy moved in and we started hearing all sorts of running, jumping, banging (like the hammering of furniture or someone trying to put flat pack furniture at 7am on a Sunday morning) kind of noise coming from upstairs, at all hours including early in the mornings and late at night. (Kids do tend to wake up a lot earlier than adults.) We can also hear the sound of their music/ someone playing on the piano too.

        We're too polite/understanding to complain to the Strata. So the previous occupant of the unit below might just have been suffering in silence. They only had one kid and it's annoying as hell at times. Can't really imagine what it'd be like if they had two.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/07/2018 - 13:24
    +10

    your strata would have fun trying to fine you based on the allegation of another tenant, there would need to be some kind of proof. That being said, noise can travel fairly easily in unit blocks. I frequently wish murder was legal so I could get rid of our upstairs neighbours who are noisy pricks.

    • frostman on 24/07/2018 - 13:48

      your strata would have fun trying to fine you based on the allegation of another tenant

      OP: good to know, thanks

      • Godric on 24/07/2018 - 13:51
        +13

        Not OP: Glad you know now : )

        • h4zey on 25/07/2018 - 09:15

          OP ozbargain fellow: hakuna matata

    • HighAndDry on 24/07/2018 - 14:45
      +1

      I guess OP should be glad you're not their downstairs neighbour….

    • footyboy on 26/07/2018 - 18:04
      +1

      Purge.

  • EightImmortals on 24/07/2018 - 13:32
    +8

    1) The complainant needs to provide dates and times and you have to agree.
    2) The strata guys are probably just going through their checklist to keep themselves out of trouble.
    3) Take a dump on his doormat.
    4) Little kids under 5 are usually in bed by 8PM anyway so the guy sounds like a bit of a jerk.
    5) If he did have any extenuating circumstances, like he's a shift worker or is dealing with an illness that requires him to sleep during the day then he should come to you and explain the situation BEFORE invoking the 3rd Reich.

      • Peter Enis on 24/07/2018 - 14:10
        +43

        Hang on… they're playing HAND BALL in the corridor? There's your problem.

      • HighAndDry on 24/07/2018 - 14:47
        +32

        I've told the kids stop playing and they got a little upset, so I cant really hit them if they run around abit or play hand-ball in corridor.

        Wtf, they're your kids right? Grow a backbone and instill some discipline. If you can't when they're only five, what do you plan to do when they get older?

        • Godric on 24/07/2018 - 14:49
          +17

          O s#1t it's about to get L1t

        • HighAndDry on 24/07/2018 - 14:49
          +3

          @Godric: You're terrible…..

        • HighAndDry on 24/07/2018 - 16:51
          +28

          @frostman: I'm not saying you should tell them to play or not play. I'm commenting on the fact that you care that they "got a little upset" when you told them off. Yes, kids will get upset when you enforce rules or discipline them. Get used to it.

          Also,

          until they turn 10 and understand Building Occupancy Etiquette?

          They might not understand etiquette, but you do. You're their parent. Parent.

        • Mike88 on 24/07/2018 - 18:05
          +30

          @frostman: Worried about your kids getting upset by some simple rules but not your neighbours rights to a quiet place of residence…

        • EnALup on 24/07/2018 - 20:14
          +20

          @frostman: Take kids to the park or ground for outdoor plays with the ball…. Buy them Lego, colour books, puzzles for indoor. TBH, when living in a unit, balls can go a bit annoying. IMHO, ball playing in an apartment is not peaceful at all.

          If you still dont want to stop your kid, you can think of buying a free standing house. Few people just like peace.
          Not blaming you all in this one, but if previous people didnt complain, it does not mean there was no issue or problems.
          Other thing can be that your new neighbour is just acting difficult.

        • [Deactivated] on 24/07/2018 - 21:32
          +22

          They rack the DISCIPRINE!

        • hetzjagd on 24/07/2018 - 22:09
          +26

          @frostman:

          No running inside, no balls inside, these aren't unusual rules in some households. Unfortunately you guys have made the decision to live in an apartment where you don't have a backyard. Have some consideration for your poor neighbour please.

      • josho9 on 24/07/2018 - 20:16
        +40

        play hand-ball in corridor.

        It's an apartment building, this isn't okay. Send them outside or suggest they play something else.

      • Love a bargain on 25/07/2018 - 12:34
        +11

        Agree with everyone else. It sounds like you don't understand the etiquette of living in an apartment block and how to be considerate. Parks are there for a reason.

        You can (or are willing to) tolerate your kids' behaviour doesn't mean everyone else who live in the apartment block should have to. (Besides, the noise that they make probably sounds a lot noisier to your downstairs neighbor than to you.)

    • jjjaar on 24/07/2018 - 18:29
      +4

      Re point 4: my downstairs neighbours have a four year old that is up until after me, that is, past 11 most nights. And she is very noisy. So yeah little kids aren’t always in bed.

      But in OPs defence, I haven’t said anything because she is a child! If it were the adults making all the noise I would have, but she’s just playing make believe or something. Let her have her fun.

    • neonlight on 27/07/2018 - 08:06

      Agree with you some tenants can be jerks. Don't have kids themselves and don't care and got no patience. Owners sometimes are the same but can be better as they own the place rather than tenants.

      Anyway there's no solution but to live in a town house or some other. People always complain at units and apartments either noise or smokes

  • garetz on 24/07/2018 - 13:42
    +5

    Acceptable Noise Levels

    Item / Activity Time Restrictions

    Power Tools & Equipment 8pm to 8am Sundays and public holidays
    8pm to 7am any other day

    Musical Instruments & Sound Systems 12 midnight to 8am Friday, Saturday and any day immediately before a public holiday
    10pm to 8am any other day

    Air-Conditioners 10pm to 8am Saturday, Sunday or Public Holiday 10pm until 7am any other day
    Motor vehicles, except when entering or leaving premises 8pm to 7am Monday to Friday
    8pm to 8am Saturdays, Sunday and public holidays

    Refrigeration units fitted to motor vehicles 8pm to 7am, Monday to Friday
    8pm to 8am Saturday, Sunday and public holidays

    Based on the above info, if you can have power tools from 7am to 8pm daily, then they got nothing they can complain about with abit of thumping.

    • frostman on 24/07/2018 - 13:52

      Based on the above info, if you can have power tools from 7am to 8pm daily, then they got nothing they can complain about with abit of thumping.

      Thanks - can I get a link to this?

    • angusngon9 on 24/07/2018 - 14:25

      nice. I recall reading this somewhere but couldn't remember where haha

    • hetzjagd on 24/07/2018 - 22:20

      Can we be sure these guidelines are the be all and end all of judgements when it comes to these sorts of domestic noise complaint situations? For example I believe there is some consideration for the decibel level and/or the frequency of occurrence. I imagine you couldn't have a hobby workshop operating in your apartment for hours on end day to day. Extreme example but people go to extreme sometimes.

      Cannot the strata enforce their own conditions of living in the building irregardless of the overarching epa law guidelines? For example it's not against the law to own a dog but they might ban dogs? Or smoking with your window is banned or something? These sorts of things that are bizarre rules but that these apartment complex places get away with.

      By any chance do you frequent Whirlpool Forums Home subforum? This sort of thing comes up all the time. If it was as simple as just linking to those guidelines and saying "they're protected/they're not protected to make that much noise" then the threads would be over quick stat instead of stretching on for pages. That said they do like to beat around the bush a lot there too so maybe that's why.

    • apey2000 on 25/07/2018 - 00:53
      +5

      That's an EPA regulation, which is not relevant here. Owners Corporation Act is what's relevant in this instance, and it states:

      An owner or occupier of a lot, or a guest of an owner or occupier, must not unreasonably create any noise likely to interfere with the peaceful enjoyment of any other person entitled to use the common property.

      Body Corp can't fine you, but if the person below you has sufficient evidence that you are interfering with their enjoyment of their lot, Body Corporate can issue you with a notice to rectify your floor situation to ensure noise from kids playing downball doesn't carry to your neighbour's lot. If you do nothing they can take you to VCAT (or equivalent in NSW).

      Downball in an apartment with floorboards probably wouldn't be considered reasonable noise for neighbours to put up with.

      EDIT: At least I believe in Victoria VCAT can't fine you, but rather they force you to rectify the sound transfer. NCAT, it seems, can indeed fine you.

      • [Deactivated] on 27/07/2018 - 09:27

        Yep - this is on point.

        Strata can't fine, but they may issue notice that leads to application to NCAT that leads to fine.
        NCAT may possibly take note of EPA guidelines, but they're separate - EPA has their own powers to deal with environmental noise etc, including from private lots.

        No ones has provided a link to the Act yet - i might do that below somewhere…

    • LFO on 25/07/2018 - 10:52
      +3

      if you can have power tools from 7am to 8pm daily, then they got nothing they can complain about with abit of thumping.

      Power tools are used with a purpose. Hence power tool noise exist for a reason and cannot be avoided if work has to be done on site.

      On the other hand children's noise can be avoided by taking those children to a park, club, farm, whatever.

      Also, usually children will not be allowed to play in certain parts of the house, near or around expensive furniture, delicate fixtures, dangerous kitchen stoves/ovens, high rise open balconies, etc etc.
      It should be the same approach when the noise affects a neighbor.

      • HighAndDry on 25/07/2018 - 11:00

        On the other hand children's noise can be avoided by taking those children to a park, club, farm, whatever.

        Is it just me or does that read to anyone else as being super dark…?

        • LFO on 25/07/2018 - 11:26
          -1

          So devoting time to children is super dark?

        • HighAndDry on 25/07/2018 - 11:39
          +1

          @LFO: Oh no no it's not that, I guess I have a darker sense of humor than most. I think I was thinking of the euphemism of "taking the pets to the family farm"… kinda way. Also jeez, ease up on the negs! You only got 5, can't be wasting them so early =P

        • purplelady on 25/07/2018 - 11:58

          @HighAndDry: what? There's a limit on negs??

        • HighAndDry on 25/07/2018 - 11:59

          @purplelady: 5 per 24hrs I think, but it might also depend on your account because it says "for me".

        • purplelady on 25/07/2018 - 12:02

          @HighAndDry: oh damn.. I better check my limits lol

        • HighAndDry on 25/07/2018 - 14:59
          +1

          @purplelady: =P yeah, gotta save them for those comments you really want to disagree with.

          Not sure why I'm giving this advice though - I'm pretty sure more than a few of those might be mine…….

        • purplelady on 25/07/2018 - 15:48
          +1

          @HighAndDry: another bad news today *sigh…

        • HighAndDry on 25/07/2018 - 16:22

          @purplelady: Awww, another? =(

          Though being capped I think (at least after I got used to it), makes me more… calm and collected, and slightly more 'que sera sera'.

          I found myself in the beginning negging everything, and probably being buoyed by a sense of "Ha! take that!" which I'm sure isn't healthy. Now, I actually have to consider comments more, reflect if they're actually that bad, and a lot of the time go away in less of a rage. (I'm almost certainly over-thinking this….).

          Catharsis is good, but I wonder if that 'positive' feeling of catharsis at being negative can be psychologically addictive in a way, and then cause people to basically seek out negativity to chase that feeling of rage and catharsis.

          (again, definitely overthinking this.)

        • purplelady on 25/07/2018 - 16:26

          @HighAndDry: yeah another one was Caramite ice cream had already been discontinued since last year :'( pretty sure I had it not that long ago :/

          I guess I kinda enjoy negging without them knowing who LOL (dont tell me you can check who negs your comment @_@), eventhough I DO think first before negging them. But that comfort of not being trolled back is pretty… comforting lol

          and yes, you are definitely over-thinking this :P

        • HighAndDry on 25/07/2018 - 16:28

          @purplelady: Oh no. That actually looks delicious - though it's good and bad I haven't found about it until it's already been discontinued.

          And no haha, no way to see who negged you (unless you're negging a mod/admin I guess - they can see EVERYTHING!)

          Been a busy day, my brain's in overdrive and so it… leaks.

        • purplelady on 25/07/2018 - 16:33

          @HighAndDry: oh, thank god for that. Phew…

          Busy… commenting? XD

        • HighAndDry on 25/07/2018 - 17:01

          @purplelady: Ha! I wish… no. Busy in a way that makes a Wednesday feel like a Friday. And not in the TGIF sense, in the "omg I need a weekend" sense.

        • purplelady on 25/07/2018 - 19:40

          @HighAndDry: hahahaha.. At least it's over for today and you only have 2 days to go :D

          It felt like Thursday for me, so we're not that different :|

    • Dan_ on 25/07/2018 - 22:29

      Power Tools & Equipment 8pm to 8am Sundays and public holidays

      Are you seriously telling me it's not occurred to you that these guidelines might apply to detached housing?

    • crazyboy on 25/07/2018 - 23:15

      But if you make noise outside these hours everyday, they can still complain to local council.

  • Randxyz123 on 24/07/2018 - 14:23
    +2

    Have you actually spoken to the people ?

    If they work weird hours or something maybe you need to start taking your kids to the park for a couple of hours so they can run around without making noise.

    • frostman on 24/07/2018 - 16:35
      +1

      Have you actually spoken to the people ?

      Nope, given they raised to formal requests about me, i'd think they should approach me?

      • Randxyz123 on 24/07/2018 - 16:49
        +8

        Go down, knock on their door. Keep everything civil and ask them more about the complaint and what exactly they can hear.

        Apologise and say you had no idea the sound went through and would try to keep the noise down.

        Also ask them to come up and knock on your door if it happens again.

        I’m willing to bet it’s a brand new apartment and the acoustics are just shit and the noise just goes through. Like the above case. Good luck

        • deebrie on 25/07/2018 - 06:55

          I wouldn't apologise, it could be seen as an admission of guilt.

        • abb on 26/07/2018 - 10:11

          @deebrie: When questioned in court (lol, it won't come to that), you say "I was merely expressing sympathy towards their state of distress".

        • guysmiley on 26/07/2018 - 13:32

          @deebrie: Put a positive spin on it "Thank you for bringing this to my attention. The previous tenant never mentioned anything about the noise."

      • ozbjunkie on 25/07/2018 - 15:57
        +1

        Maybe go down and ask if you can listen when he next hears noise.

        Exchange phone numbers if it helps.

        You might be surprised how noisey it is.

        • Randxyz123 on 25/07/2018 - 20:13
          +1

          Maybe go down and ask if you can listen when he next hears noise.

          Exchange phone numbers if it helps.

          You might be surprised how noisy it is.

          This is what I'm getting at. The insulation is probably cheap crap and not done correctly. Maybe he works night shifts?. I'm not saying don't write back to the body corporate and tell them it's unfair for him to go to the STRATA and not come upstairs and knock on your door first. Do both.

          Also, I don't agree an apology is an admission of guilt. Starting with "I'm sorry this is the way we are meeting" isn't admitting anything.

          He's going to know why you're there and you do too. There's no point trying to hide it.

        • ozbjunkie on 25/07/2018 - 20:21
          +1

          @knick007:

          Agreed. Not to mention the aggreived person might actually become more reasonable if they see the other party show some understanding and willing to make an effort.

  • bdl on 24/07/2018 - 14:40

    https://bit.ly/2LG5RHo

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