Why Doesn't Melbourne Have School Buses to Alleviate PT Squeeze?

SkMed on 20/07/2018 - 14:07
Last edited 12/08/2018 - 19:02 by 1 other user

If your are a fellow Melbourneite who catches Public transport to work each day you'll know about the dreaded the morning squeeze which returns when kids finish their holidays and head back to school. Public Transport is at peak capacity already during the school holiday season, but when kids go back to school and fill the trams its a joke.

It's becoming common for me to be 15-30 mins late to work 1 or 2 days a week now due to overcrowding outside of school holidays and i'm sure a lot of other people are in the same boat tram.

Just wondering if there is any reason why we don't have School busses running to take kids to school? A ban on school kids using PT during peak hours would help ease congestion on PT. School busses running along the same routes could be a perfect solution. There is no reason Busses couldn't actually share the tram line lanes in a lot of places too which would mean that they theoretically wouldn't even add to road congestion.

Surely i'm not the only sardine having this thought this week?

Education & Work

Comments

  • StealthBargins on 21/07/2018 - 11:06

    are you talking about the crowding on trams along st kilda road?

    • SkMed on 21/07/2018 - 15:51

      No, I'm on the 96, the problem is from the start of the line on Nicholson to the schools on Carlton. But I'm sure there's the same issue along most route's.

      • StealthBargins on 23/07/2018 - 21:54

        ohh right , im having similar issues on st kilda road at new office, at park st(near domain interchange) i generally have to wait for about 5 full z or B class trams going towards Flinders st before i can get on a tram… takes about 20 mins sometimes, the funny thing is, i used to have a similar issue in 1994 during year 10 work experience… they should really put more C/D/E low floor trams along that route.

    • Carmen Sandiego on 23/07/2018 - 16:09

      If you're looking to avoid this, take a train to Richmond and take the 246 bus down Punt Rd.

      Punt Rd is refreshingly empty in the mornings but, bear in mind I take this exact bus at 7:30am :P

      • SkMed on 24/07/2018 - 15:57

        Haha I did this in reverse a few times to get to band practice, worked ok, however one day I got on when there was a cricket or football game or something and took about 3hrs to get home. Stuck for over an hour and moved about a block. lol

        • Carmen Sandiego on 12/08/2018 - 19:00

          This is why I go through the city on the reverse :P

          Too many bloody days where there's sportsball events :P

  • Wiede on 21/07/2018 - 13:24
    +5

    I have a really great alternative solution here. It is quite a radical idea

    Hear me out, this might blow your mind OP and will solve your problem of arriving work late.

    What if you……. take an earlier PT and give yourself a buffer?

    Such a crazy idea I know. Might not be workable, I think your idea of banning every schoolchildren would be better.

    • SkMed on 21/07/2018 - 15:53
      -1

      I love how you focus on banning of school kids on PT without mentioning that they would have their own dedicated school busses during the korning peak.

      Leaving earlier is only going to be a temp solution. In the next year or so there is going to be thousands more people on the same peak trams due to several huge apartment buildings going up at the moment, so something will need to be done.

  • rjstev on 21/07/2018 - 14:13
    +1

    How about making home schooling compulsory? Then there’d be no need for kids to use PT!

    • SkMed on 21/07/2018 - 15:54
      -1

      Oh that would be amazing! Haha

    • smartazz104 on 21/07/2018 - 16:34
      +1

      It would be easier to let OP work from home every day instead.

  • Plug on 21/07/2018 - 14:35

    School buses are ok provided they are properly thought out and the routes are managed correctly. The key is whether not they are free services. Here in Adelaide they are not so the pupils get on whichever service they want. If they were free services they would all use that instead and free up space on regular buses.

    • SkMed on 21/07/2018 - 15:55
      -1

      Well I'd imagine they would run on the myki system. I mean ideally free, but nothing is free so same at PT would make sense I think.

  • BadHorse on 21/07/2018 - 15:28
    +1

    There are rules stating that public schools can only have school buses where viable PT options do not exist, which is why school kids take transport with the rest of us. Means more services, more frequently and less cars on the road and everyone can benefit from them

  • Peace Horse on 21/07/2018 - 15:39
    +8

    Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong

    • SkMed on 21/07/2018 - 15:57
      -1

      Man if I were a school kid being crammed into these trams I'd be pretty happy if I got a school bus replacement…

  • GourmetFoodie on 21/07/2018 - 16:57
    +1

    It's not the kids fault - it's the government's fault! Complain to your local MP and start voting based on transport policy. We need more services to support the increase in population growth.

    In the meantime negotiate with your employer for better hours that allow you to leave at more suitable times.

  • Banana on 21/07/2018 - 17:48
    +1

    Boo.

    I get to work an hour earlier due to parking problem.

    Never really been late to work even when PT f* up as I have an hour buffer.

    Eat breakfast at work, take a shit, browse Ozbargain if you must insist on starting work at 9am.

    Banning kids from PT is not a practical solution. Next, please.

  • steven231 on 21/07/2018 - 18:03
    +1

    You do realise how outrageous your ideal to ban school kids is though right? Put yourself in the students shoes. The only options are for them to be driven or public transport. Parents need to work so they can't take them, so public transport is the only option for some.

    Regarding your idea to BAN ALL KIDS FOR PT and put them on buses, every school has at least hundreds of students and high schools over a 1000 students. Say 50% of them rely on public transport that's like 500. A bus can carry like 50 individuals (you'd need high capacity buses) so that's 10 buses each way. Now people who take public transport through the city typically have schools situated in and around the CBD (reading comments you say you take the 96 line, i live in melbourne too) so having 10 buses rock up at peak times whereby the schools in the CBD typically don't have alot of space and parents picking other students cause enough chaos.

    Then there's the case of where to? Students don't all live on the same street so they'd have to take PT anyway and dropping them off house by house would take forever. These school buses already exist for private schools but cost a lot of money.

    Now here's the problem, major cities in Australia have way too many people that our infrastructure can't even hold up and you gotta make do. You keep saying you don't want to be 30-40 minutes early but who said you had to go straight to work?

  • 5hri on 21/07/2018 - 19:08
    +1

    its a free country, you can't ban anyone from using "public" transport.

    Also if the school kids (esp public school kids) were provided school buses then the government will have to fund and your next post will then be complaining about the high taxes.

  • Neptunesblood on 21/07/2018 - 21:16

    I guess it depends what school you go to.

  • p1 ama on 21/07/2018 - 22:54
    +2

    Just wondering if there is any reason why we don't have School busses running to take kids to school? A ban on school kids using PT during peak hours would help ease congestion on PT.

    Just replace kids with any other term and you'll see how ridiculous that sounds.

    "Just wondering if there is any reason why we don't have buses for black people? A ban on black people using PT during peak hours would help ease congestion on PT"

    Hang on, sounds like this has been tried in the US and South Africa not that long ago!

    Regardless of whether we have school buses or not, you can't ban a group of people from catching public transport. Not only is that highly discriminatory, but where will we draw the line?

    Perhaps you should ask your employer for a private bus to take you and all your colleagues to work before trying to complain and moan about others using public transport. Sure, your ride is uncomfortable, you think the school kids like it too?

  • easternbluecut on 21/07/2018 - 23:00

    Some schools do have school buses both public and private. The private ones don't require kids to have mykis and are usually included in school fees. The public ones do require kids to have mykis and touch on and off.

    That said, perhaps one solution considering you are only 5 stops from the end of your line is to leave home early enough to catch a tram down to the end and then enjoy a nice seated trip back into the city.

    Alternatively why not try another means of transportation such as a bus or a bike.

    Also there are a lot of reasons why buses don't run along dedicated tram lines in the same way trams don't run on train lines.

  • Nickels n Dimes on 22/07/2018 - 00:16
    +2

    School buses in Victoria are provided for disabled students, and primary/secondary students who live more than 4.8km from a government school (which rules out most Melbourne metropolitan students). Unfortunately, the Victorian State government spends too little on funding public schools, (which barely covers the operating/maintenance costs, salaries and equipment cost), let alone school supplies, lunches and buses.
    In other states, like New South Wales, the school buses are available for students more than 1.6km from a school, and a few other states have similar policies — clearly it can be made to work efficiently, cost effectively and conveniently, and has an unmatched record for safe transport in Australia. These services are typically run by the public transport authority, but separately from regular PT, but takes some of the load off regular transport thanks to improved efficiency — all students arrive at, and leave from the same location at the same time, unlike non-student travellers.

    Perhaps this should be a new campaign policy for the next state election ?

  • whooah1979 on 22/07/2018 - 09:16
    +1

    Op, it sounds like you want to pay more state taxes to fund private school buses to accommodate the students.

  • Ghost47 on 22/07/2018 - 11:33
    +2

    I've actually considered this recently as well OP. From a Melbourne perspective, school traffic is absolutely horrible. In Melbourne there is a marked difference when school is on and when school is off — traffic is much lighter on the roads in the morning and afternoons when it's school holidays.

    IMO it would be great if the government could fund more private buses for schools. I was thinking that the school could have a buses going on different routes on main roads to the areas where most of their students live. The buses would go on main roads and all the parents would have to do is walk their kid to their nearest stop and drop them off and vice versa when they are getting picked up. My high school (public) had private buses. I'm not sure if many other schools have them?

    One issue with this though is that some parents drop their kids off and pick them up on their way to work, so this wouldn't be very convenient for them, which is fair enough — they can just keep driving. On the other hand parents who only drop off and pick up their kids (eg. stay at home parents) could benefit from this. Whether or not there is enough stay at home parents to really lighten traffic on the road is something to consider and analyse.

    I just want something smart to be done about our transport infrastructure, it's absolutely inadequate and it's only going to get worse. I'm sick of being stuck in peak hour traffic and I'm not looking forward to the years to come. Metro Tunnel will be done in SEVEN years (what a joke). That is extremely far away and it's not going to do anything because it'll be at capacity by the time it opens. Our past governments have sat on their hands for way too long and we've been letting in far too many migrants without considering the strain that it puts on our infrastructure. We are very much playing the catch up game and we are very far behind.

    • p1 ama on 22/07/2018 - 15:43

      Our past governments have sat on their hands for way too long and we've been letting in far too many migrants without considering the strain that it puts on our infrastructure. We are very much playing the catch up game and we are very far behind.

      Yes, it's always the immigrants isn't it - everyone's favourite scapegoat, coming here and putting our infrastructure over capacity, taking our jobs, increasing crime…etc. You really think immigration is the issue? It's not because people aren't willing to move to smaller towns, or that people aren't willing to live in smaller dwellings closer to the city? When there's an issue, there's always a group that is to blame. It's always "them", not "us".

      Also, just so you know, immigration is a federal issue, infrastructure is largely a state issue. The federal government doesn't build train lines, the state government doesn't decide how many immigrants we take. What "government" are you talking about specifically that are letting "too many migrants in without considering the strain it puts on our infrastructure"? Or are you just mindlessly blaming other groups and the "government"?

      • Ghost47 on 22/07/2018 - 17:30
        +2

        You really think immigration is the issue?

        Obviously there are many variables at play, I just picked one. Just because I targeted immigrants doesn't mean I think that immigrants are the sole cause of our problems, nor do I hate immigrants (so don't put those other words about them increasing crime or taking our jobs in my mouth — I never once said that in my post, and I don't for one second even think that), nor do I think that there aren't internal variables at play here also, even though you seem to be hell bent on assuming that for whatever reason. Whether you like it or not, overseas immigration has had a marked effect on our population growth even if you don't want to accept it.

        From this:

        Overseas migration was Melbourne's biggest population driver in the 2016-17 period, accounting for 64 per cent of growth, followed by natural increase at 29 per cent.

        It's not because people aren't willing to move to smaller towns, or that people aren't willing to live in smaller dwellings closer to the city? When there's an issue, there's always a group that is to blame. It's always "them", not "us".

        That's a great point and I agree with that. I'm not even trying to blame immigration solely (even though it's fair that probably comes across in my post — but hey, part of that is your assumption of my opinion — sorry I didn't spend 3 hours typing a post with all the root causes of our population issues). But, I do understand that as a variable immigration has a high impact on our population growth and it is seemingly relatively easy to rectify. It's called picking the low hanging fruit first; just revise the god damn numbers and limit them. Unless you think our government can roll out your solutions (which, as I said were fine points) faster and easier — good luck with that though.

        Also, just so you know, immigration is a federal issue, infrastructure is largely a state issue.

        Thanks, I didn't know that at all. /s

        What "government" are you talking about specifically that are letting "too many migrants in without considering the strain it puts on our infrastructure"? Or are you just mindlessly blaming other groups and the "government"?

        I'm talking about both. Both need to work together. I should have been more clear.

        Thanks for your reply though, despite it not really addressing anything else I said except to say "EURHHH YOU H8 IMMIGRANTS". I care about peak hour, I don't want it to become constant peak. Applying your logic to your reply I could easily say that you don't care about that issue, but I won't apply your logic because I don't fully understand nor will I choose to blindly assume the perspective you're coming from, and I don't jump to silly conclusions that are ultimately irrelevant to the core issue that the thread is discussing. But hey, as you said "it's always them, not us".

        • p1 ama on 23/07/2018 - 22:22

          Whether you like it or not, overseas immigration has had a marked effect on our population growth even if you don't want to accept it.

          Population growth isn't necessarily an inherently bad thing. Even if it were the case that population growth is an issue, there are many other causes apart from immigration - life expectancy is increasing and much higher than just a few decades ago, for example.

          In any case, I don't think you quite got my point (sarcasm doesn't translate well over text), but immigrants have the same right as all other Australians to use our public infrastructure. To say that immigrants are the issue is no different to saying that Australian born individuals are the issue, or that people with black hair are the issue, or that vegetarians are the issue…etc.

          I understand your argument, which is that if there were no immigrants (or, at least, less immigrants), then there would be less of an issue. However, there would also be less of an issue if there were less vegetarians, or less curly haired people, or less insert any characteristic group of people.

          In any case, I question your assumptions:

          But, I do understand that as a variable immigration has a high impact on our population growth and it is seemingly relatively easy to rectify. It's called picking the low hanging fruit first; just revise the god damn numbers and limit them. Unless you think our government can roll out your solutions (which, as I said were fine points) faster and easier — good luck with that though.

          I don't think it's an easily rectifiable issue at all - there are many jobs that people in Australia don't want to do and many areas where there are genuine skill shortages, not to mention that immigration is dragging down the average age of the population which has all sorts of benefits in terms of provision of social welfare and services.

          Thanks for your reply though, despite it not really addressing anything else I said except to say "EURHHH YOU H8 IMMIGRANTS". I care about peak hour, I don't want it to become constant peak.

          Yes, but your response is to single out a group of individuals and say "you are the problem", so regardless of whether you hate immigrants or not, just imagine how stupid it would be if I pointed at people with curly hair and said "you lot are the problem, if you all weren't here, there would be much less congestion", that's almost silly.

          There are heaps of personal solutions to congestion and general overcrowding. I think that it is best if we look to ourselves to try and solve the problem. The problem is not other people, it's that we (collectively) all want to live on a 600 sqm block of land with a 4 bedroom house in a nice suburb with a 30 minute commute to the city. Clearly not everyone can have that and we (collectively) need to accept it. If congestion is an issue, then get a studio apartment near where you work and walk to work every morning. Or perhaps find a job in Hobart where there's (quite literally) never any traffic. How about going to work later and going home later…etc.

          I don't think that you "hate" immigrants (as you seem to think I do), but I do think that you're looking to scapegoat another group for a problem we are all collectively responsible for. I think that it starts with us - travel times are what they are, if you want to live in XYZ location, you accept the good and the bad that come with it, first and foremost.

  • PAOK11 on 22/07/2018 - 12:38
    -1

    Move to the other side of the city durrr

  • DiscoJango on 22/07/2018 - 13:24
    +1

    ozbargain members want members of parliament to make logical decisions

    you make laugh

  • DingoBilly on 22/07/2018 - 16:30

    Some people really shock me on here. They literally don't understand how the world doesn't revolve around them and their timetable.
    - If SkMed leaves at a certain time, he'll usually be late. He doesn't want to be late (although mentions several times it doesn't matter if he's late.. so who cares?)
    - If he leaves 10 minutes earlier, he'll be too early! He doesn't want to be early.
    - The solution? Ban thousands of people from public transport and make them use a different set of public transport.

    I honestly don't understand the logic whatsoever. Go 10 minutes early and use your free time for whatever you want, or go late since it doesn't even matter if you're late or not. With your free time, maybe do some research on moving and renting closer to where you work so your life isn't completely ruined the 2 days you have to go into work and you're late because you didn't want to go on transport 10 minutes earlier.

    • SkMed on 23/07/2018 - 10:21

      Im asking as a general question more so, not just for myself.

      Every day while school is on the tram is already bursting at the seams when it reaches my stop which is about 5 stops from the start of the line. By the time it gets a few stops further along the tram is already full leaving hundreds of people unable to get on.

      Even if I did completely uproot my life and move to the other side (not really an option) it's wouldnt do much to help everyone else unable to board the tram in the morning trying to just get into the CBD.

  • jno on 23/07/2018 - 00:08
    +1

    I wish we could get rid of kids everywhere! But it seems like that is frowned upon :/

  • gccmelb on 23/07/2018 - 10:09

    Melbourneite

    Melburnians don't use that term.

    • SkMed on 23/07/2018 - 10:11

      haha you got me.

    • BadGiraffe on 23/07/2018 - 16:14

      I use Melbournoid. It hasn't caught on.

  • Chubbsmcfatflabs on 23/07/2018 - 10:17
    +1

    Melbourne's population has increased significantly since the year 2000. It has gone from approx 3.4 million to approx 4.8 million now.

    Infrastructure has not kept pace with housing developments and the spread of the city.

    Schoolkids aren't the problem, what you are seeing is symptomatic of poor planning, and unbridled housing development.

    Theres not even enough schools or hospitals. State governments of all political flavours have a lot to answer for. Whats the answer ? Spend the money on public transport, Decentralise offices, work more from home, reduce dependence on the CBD…its not just one thing. I don't know that there is a single answer to what is a multifaceted issue..

    • SkMed on 24/07/2018 - 11:22

      Totally agree, just trying to think of potential ways to un-pickle this pickle and noticed the huge difference in PT/road congestion when school is back on.

  • garage sale on 23/07/2018 - 10:19

    people wanting space to use their phones ….. if people put their phones away there would be more space again ……. hard one to enforce or promote though …. if people drive cars and use phones they’d feel even more entitled to space to use a phone on a tram.

    in some countries they have train carriages that ares sheilded and phones don’t work …..gives people quiet and creates space ….want phone coverage go in crowded carriage ….don’t want phone go into less crowded carriage.

  • Scumbag on 23/07/2018 - 13:06

    Surely it's not just the kids returning from school holidays. It's would also be parents that took some time off over that period too. Maybe you should ban parents of children from using PT too.

    If you really want unpredictability, try driving.

  • ICMushroom on 23/07/2018 - 14:04
    +1

    My eye twitches everytime I read "busses" throughout this thread.

  • dxlx on 23/07/2018 - 14:46

    I used to take a private chartered bus to school and would still arrive 30 mins earlier than when school doors actually opened. We'd have to sit outside and wait. I don't understand OP's issue with arriving to work 30-40 mins early. Surely if students are able to get to school on time, OP should be able to get to work on time too.

    • SkMed on 24/07/2018 - 11:12

      Im quite sure that students catching this same tram are also getting to school late regularly too. Also 30 mins is a lot more precious as a working adult already working 10-12 hours per day as opposed to a kid at school for 6-7 hours.

  • idonotknowwhy on 23/07/2018 - 15:26

    Move closer to work.

    School kids have just as much right as you do to be there.
    When I was in high school, I wanted a seat for the bus, so I walked back for 10 minutes to the previous stop.
    The bus drove right past. Same thing happened the next day, and the bus driver opened the door and said "school kids have to get on at the next stop" then drove off. (profanity) him lol.

    • SkMed on 24/07/2018 - 11:13

      Walking back a few stops doesn't solve the issue for everyone else further down the line though…

      • idonotknowwhy on 24/07/2018 - 11:46

        Yeah I know, I was just explaining why I'm sticking up for the freedom of high school kids. I still hate that bus driver.

  • BadGiraffe on 23/07/2018 - 16:18

    School buses will probably only benefit the school kids. Having more of them won't be much of an impact to you I don't think. A drop in the pond. If school buses take some kids away from PT, those spots will be filled with other adults. I go to work a little later and leave a little later. Arrive at 9:15, leave at 5:30. Work is okay with that.

    • garage sale on 23/07/2018 - 23:50

      yep, i aim for 9am in the office seat …..school starts at 8:30 so i have over 30 mins of transport with adults only as kids try to be there by 8:15 to chat with friends etc.

      you need a plan a with a bit of insight into other people’s travel patterns.

    • SkMed on 24/07/2018 - 11:09

      There is a noticeable difference when kids are on holidays. I can get a seat most days when kids are on holidays, but stuck waiting for 2 or 3 trams to pass before being able to squeeze on a tram most days when school is back on.

      It's the several apartment buildings going up around my stop that have me wondering about school busses. If that doesn't happen there will definitely need to be a huge increase in tram services very soon.

      • BadGiraffe on 24/07/2018 - 12:11
        +1

        True, you'll notice a difference, because during holidays, all kids won't be on trains. You're 100% kid-free. On regular days, say 10% of kids use school buses. You're still left with 90% of kids using PT. These 90% of kids are the ones that can't afford school buses (I was one of them), or the ones that just prefer PT (me again as I got older).

        EDIT: Also, during school hols, adults take leave to spend time with the family. Another reason why you have more seats on trains and less cars on the road.

        • SkMed on 25/07/2018 - 08:24

          But surely if scool busses ran along the existing tram line between trams, and cost the same (ideally lower or free) then you would have used them instead of being crammed on an overcrowded tram? Obviously a ban isn't realistic, but an incentive to use school busses surely is.

        • BadGiraffe on 25/07/2018 - 10:38

          @SkMed: It's high time PTV take a look at the transport system as a whole and make changes. Their efforts of putting more trans/trams on and having them more frequent (which we appreciate) isn't helping.

          Speaking of buses, they should improve bus routes and services. I hate taking the bus because I want to go from point A to point B, but there's only one bus that goes there, and it HAS to go through the entire neighbourhood. If you have a service that does that, AND another service that goes along the main roads/tram lines, buses between train stations, then yes, that would ease congestion.

  • serpserpserp on 23/07/2018 - 18:40

    TL:DR they do.

  • lostn on 23/07/2018 - 23:49
    +2

    There are charter buses that pick up kids from their home and drop them off there, but they cost money.

    I don't think your request of banning kids from PT is realistic.

    Unsustainable population growth has led us to where we are. Not a whole lot you can do about it now.

    I drive to work and live relatively close but have noticed my commutes have gotten dramatically longer over the past couple of years. I seek alternative routes home but they are just as congested. In the past, finishing the same hours, there was hardly any traffic. Now you have to line up for about half an hour just to turn right. The queue for the turning lane(s) stretches about half a KM.

    • garage sale on 23/07/2018 - 23:53
      +1

      yep, had to get work by car last week on a a rare occasion i didn’t use train ……thought i’d beat morning rush at 7am ……was already bumper to bumper …by product of rapid population growth.

      it’s probabaly why more people are cycling to work besides fitness ….it’s the traffic.

      • SkMed on 24/07/2018 - 11:14
        -2

        Yeah I tried driving a couple times. Including finding a parking spot it took almost twice the amount of time to get to work, almost 2 hours so. Then had to run out and shuffle the car around several times during the day, so this is not an option at all lol.

    • SkMed on 24/07/2018 - 16:25

      Do taking thee busses cost more than regular PT? If so what is the incentive to do so exactly? I imagine any school bus system would have to be the same as PT or lower but ideally free as an incentive for kids to use them…

      Well I mean something will have to be done surely, they cant just keep packing the same amount of people into the trams forever without increasing services or some sort of solution.
      \The next year or two on my line in particular there is probably going to be double the amount of people at peak hour due to several massive apartment buildings nearing completion.

      • lostn on 24/07/2018 - 17:42

        I don't know how much it costs now, but when I was a kid, it was a hundred and something a year. That should be cheaper than PT.

        But I have no idea what it costs now. I know these mini buses still operate though. Every school has them.

        They will probably need to run more services. But new trains, trams and buses plus their drivers cost a lot of money and that money has to come from somewhere. Probably higher fares. Train drivers make 200k.

        Infrastructure costs a lot more now than it once did when it was first laid out. Just a road that connects two other roads costs billions. The growth of people do not earn enough and pay enough tax to fund the services and infrastructure needed to support them. Roads are congested, PT is congested.

        People will need to be content living further from the city and developing those areas into a new "city". Or we can change business hours from 9 to 5 to a more staggered range. Some do 8-4, some do 7-3, some do 6-2, some do 10-6, 11-7, and so on. This idea will be very difficult to sell but it would theoretically spread the congestion thinner.

        If there's an accident on the freeway, lol. Everyone's going to be 2 hours late. And if you're a retail business like a supermarket that depends on a truck delivery and it's late, you're going to lose a lot of sales, and you've got staff standing around with nothing to do, and not enough of them working when the truck finally arrives.

        • SkMed on 25/07/2018 - 08:20

          Holy balls, 200k?! No freaking wonder why we don't have more trams, busses and trains running, that's insanity.

          Yes exactly, I know its going to be a thousand times more expensive to try widen the road or add a tram or train line which is why I figured busses could just run along the existing tram lanes which mostly aren't being used at all other than a tram every 5 to 10 mins at peak hour. Just makes sense as a potential solution until something else can be done.

          I don't see why people here are so against the idea of using empty tram lanes to run busses between trams. Its the cheapest, easiest and fastest solution to implement surely?

  • pformag on 24/07/2018 - 13:08

    WTF

  • Porker on 24/07/2018 - 17:29
    -1

    This perspective argument will likely go around and around and around….

    With gross assumption, I state: We all love and only think about the mode of travel we use and don't want to be impacted by anyone else. Eg. Motorists vs cyclists vs pedestrians. We tend to hate the other two when using whatever mode suits us at the time.

    I'd say it's the same thing here. If OP started driving to work, then they'd likely encounter a different set of issues that would make him/her upset or late for work. We just have to work around the system we have until a better one (if ever) arrives.

    Speaking of school kids.. Today's funny…. Parent calls me up (I work in local government) and complains about the traffic outside a particular school during the morning parent drop-off period. She's upset and states that I need to do something about it because it's causing such a HUGE traffic congestion problem for her while driving past the school.

    She says to me "This is ridiculous. It shouldn't take me 10 minutes to drive past this school but it did. As a result, I was late driving my child to their school and they missed the start of their class"

    I asked her if she saw any issues in her statement, eluding to the fact that she's contributing to the problem she's complaining about. "How can you possibly think I am contributing? All I'm doing is driving my daughter to her school. I think I'll go talk to my member of parliament instead" ….. ….. …….

    • lostn on 24/07/2018 - 17:47
      +1

      I'd say it's the same thing here. If OP started driving to work, then they'd likely encounter a different set of issues that would make him/her upset or late for work. We just have to work around the system we have until a better one (if ever) arrives.

      If he drove to work, he'll be complaining not enough people are taking PT and are congesting his roads.

      It's basically a big issue no matter how you get to school/work, thanks to peak hour grind.

      But I've noticed traffic does not die down these days even at 10, 11.

      I've found myself using google maps to route me to my destination before heading out, just to get a heads up if my usual route is congested due to an accident.

      "How can you possibly think I am contributing?"

      How does the saying go? You're not in traffic, you are traffic.

      • SkMed on 25/07/2018 - 08:13

        I drove to work a couple times and actually wanted to die. Took twice as long, accidentally went though a toll road I didn't know existed and then had to shuffle my car around every few hours due to limited parking haha.

        Im a huge fan of PT. I think more people should be using it. However trams have the unfortunate habbit of breaking down and holding up any trams behind. This got me thinking about busses along the tram line as they can easily detour/go around broken down trams, then that got me thinking about why school kids don't have school busses here like most cities etc.

        Ideally a lot more people should be using PT but we really need a lot more trams, train and busses for that to happen (and drivers to change their view on PT).

        I really don't know what the solution is, but my line has become noticeably more crowded the past year and is about to become unusable during peak hour in the next year or so.

        • lostn on 25/07/2018 - 22:45

          PT is only good if you don't transport much stuff. And if it's convenient for you to get to a station. Train station parking is normally insufficient unless you're early. If you live close enough to the station that you can walk, and the stop you get off at is close enough to your final destination, it's great. Waiting for a train you just missed sucks. As does your train being late and missing your connecting train.

          If you go shopping, you don't want to use PT. You have to carry all your stuff back.

  • chuxsw on 24/07/2018 - 18:36
    +1

    Back in the day (80's) we used to hang off the side of the w class trams on the running boards. That increased the tram capacity by 20 kids.

  • heidisapirate on 24/07/2018 - 22:31
    +1

    Mate, plenty of people do this every day without hassle.
    You say that you don't have any work to do if you arrive early by 40 minutes - read a book! Listen to music or a podcast. Get a portable gaming device. Take a nap at your desk. You could do anything in those 40 minutes.
    Sure having to leave early is annoying, but it's a part of your life. Least you could do is make it more enjoyable.
    You think the kids on the trams enjoy it either? They don't. But like you, they have a certain time they need to arrive by.

    • SkMed on 25/07/2018 - 07:59

      I already do all this on the tram for a good hour or so each way. Leaving a bit earlier still isn't a solution to the problem of overcrowding. If everyone went in earlier then the earlier trams will just become packed too lol.

      Also partly the reason I'm suggesting school busses, for their comfort too.

      • whooah1979 on 27/07/2018 - 13:47

        Many people like heidisapirate doesn’t want to pay more taxes to fund these extra buses. Are you willing to pay more?

  • Randolph Duke on 25/07/2018 - 00:23
    +1

    OP works from home 2 days a week, and is late 2 days a week… so, basically late everyday when heading into work. I highly doubt school kids are causing the extra 40mins compare to leaving 10mins earlier, seems far more likely just congested roads.

    Still, obvious answer is obvious. Leave earlier and give yourself a buffer.

    • SkMed on 25/07/2018 - 08:00

      That was an estimate of average days late when I work 5 days from the office, just weird that way as not to add confusion.

      Well as others have said it's school kids and teachers, parents heading back to work etc.

      I'm in the tram right now (earlier than usual) and about 1 third is school kids. At my normal tonne it's about half full of school kids. Obviously not their fault, I'm just wondering if school busses has been thought of to help with over crowding

  • GG57 on 25/07/2018 - 09:36

    I can't believe this post is still going.
    OP continues to push the need for school buses, suggesting they run on the tram lines between trams. Although that could move some tram passengers onto buses, and thus make the trams less crowded, all that would do is add more traffic to the roads.

    If you increase the traffic volume on roads, be that an increase in the number of trams, or adding buses, or adding more cars, or adding horse-and-carts, the result will be a slower trip due to the increased volume of traffic. It might be more comfortable on the tram for OP, but it will take longer.

    There are only a few roads where trams are separated from other traffic, where the suggested solution might work.

    • SkMed on 25/07/2018 - 11:13

      Yes, while there are some places without dedicated tram lanes, there are still a lot of places with them, my line being one of them, so adding busses between trams in those places could theoretically help a lot without adding to road congestion at all or extremely little. While more trams in general would be ideal i'm sure it costs a lot more to run trams vs busses and busses have the advantage of being able to continue operating if a tram breaks down along the line.

      To me it seems like a logical, low cost, easy to implement solution to help with the over crowding problem, while a more long term solution is planned and implemented.

      I'd love to hear any other solutions other than "leave earlier" which doesn't really help anyone else along the line unable to board the tram.

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