I had a 3.6kW solar inverter installed in 2011. The inverter failed in 2015 after 4 years and was replaced under the 5 year warranty with a new inverter of the same model. This second inverter has now failed after only 3 years. The inverter is covered by a 5 year warranty but the company are stating that they will not cover the inverter under warranty as their warranty starts at the original installation date (in 2011, 7 years ago) and not the date at which the inverter was replaced (which was only 3 years ago).
They are proposing to charge me $1300 to replace the inverter with the same model. Which has already failed twice now.
I would expect the life of an inverter to be far more than only 3 years given that solar installations are a long term proposition. I note that it has been 7 years since the original installation date but I would not have expected two failures within 7 years.
Can you please advise where I stand under consumer law/ACCC on this one please as I would like the inverter to be replaced under warranty (again)?
Thanks
Solar inverter failed twice in 7yrs. What are my rights under consumer law?
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Yep, awaiting their response.
Out of curiosity did you get the run of the mill inverter or did you spend a bit more on a quality one? I've heard they are the most critical part of a solar set up.
I spent pretty close to the top of the line in 2011, $10K+ for a 3.9kW system and 3.6kW inverter. What I though was a reliable European (Italian) inverter and quality solar panels. I could have purchased the same size system for much much less but went with what I thought was quality. Two inverter failures in 7 years isn't what I would call quality or reliability.
Aurora? we have the 6kw
Who told you that was a good idea? You don't need headroom on an inverter. Its more efficient the closer it is to 100%, and will cap the input from the panels at the rated maximum. I have 5.5kw of panels on a 5.0kw SMA inverter (5 years old), and it rarely maxes out. A good inverter should last 10 years plus.
@Cartman2530: do you have a reliable source to suggest that the common practice of oversizing the inverter impacts inverter life? It sounds like garbage to me.
I thought cartman was correct but I did a little research and it seems he (and I ) is not.
https://www.solarchoice.net.au/blog/oversizing-solar-panel-a…
@Cartman2530: Do you ever realise that inverters have a minimum start-up voltage? Oversizing your inverter will make it not even start on low-irradiance days.
@ty99234: Jeez, I was talking about the longevity of power electronics when held at their maximum rating for long periods of time. If they are a piece of crap they won't last long doing that.
If the first inverter the OP had failed and then another doesn't that tell you something? Its either bullshitting its rating or is cheap garbage, or both.
Are you telling me that a cheap chinese "1000W" PSU will reliably work near its maximum day in day out? I'm sure that if it even saw half that load it would explode.
There are lots of people that must be keeping fit here by jumping….to conclusions.
Solar inverters output reactive power for grid stability. That inverter should support up to 5kW of panels. Rule of thumb is you loose 30% real power. You take the hit as the generator so you don't destroy your neighbors fridge.
Power electronics, like Shark's inverter, should just work. It sounds like there is either a fault in Shark's circuit or more likely Shark's house or neighborhood has a power quality issue. I would call my power supplier.
reliable European (Italian) inverter
No such thing…..
Reliable Italian …… lol ( Shoes they do well )
As an avid fan and owner of way too many Italian motorcycles, I can confirm this. If it has “made in Italy” written on it anywhere, quality is about that of mid to low tier Chinese garbage.
But, I do love me some Italian motorcycles… :D
Aurora inverters have a well known design fault. It's possible to fix them quite cheaply. I've posted a link at the bottom of this comments section on how to go about it.
You can't use reliable and Italian in the same sentence
that sounds right to me
else 5 yrs warranty will become lifetime warranty if replacement fails every <5yrs
Agreed. But it their product lasts the 5 year warranty period as its supposed to then this is not true. If either my first or second inverter had lasted then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
that's not the definition of warranty
Not here. Other countries, if you get a new item, the new item has warranty, But other countries don't have Australian Consumer rights: once warranty is over, it's over. Your phone dies after 1 warranty ? That's it.
You didn't buy the second unit. It was replaced under the warranty of the first unit, which ran out in 2016. Effectively, you bought a product and it lasted, including warranty repairs and replacements, until 2018.
You have rights under consumer law as well. As confirmed from both the ACCC and WA Consumer Protection, "The consumer guarantees that applied to the original goods will apply to any replacement goods."
@Shark: If you spoke to them on the phone, you had to have listened through their waiver that their verbal advice is non-binding and effectively useless. What's in writing, as quoted by others and even yourself, is that only the consumer guarantees applying to the original sale continue to apply.
You edited, but…
"The consumer guarantees that applied to the original goods will apply to any replacement goods."
Yes. So if the original good is expected to last a total of 5 years (for example), that same 5 year period applies to the replacement good. It doesn't mean the replacement gets a NEW set of consumer guarantees. Consumer guarantees come into effect when you purchase the goods - the warranty replacement is not a separate purchase.
Effectively - this says: If you buy a phone that's supposed to last 2 years, it breaks 6 months in and is replaced, the replacement unit still has to last the balance of the 2 years - it's not completely lacking in consumer guarantees.
@Drew22: Read the end of his statement…
"Effectively - this says: If you buy a phone that's supposed to last 2 years, it breaks 6 months in and is replaced, the replacement unit still has to last the balance of the 2 years - it's not completely lacking in consumer guarantees"Does that answer your question?
It doesn't mean the replacement gets a NEW set of consumer guarantees.
It gets the same set of guarantees applied. The first of which is:
Acceptable quality
There is a guarantee that goods are of acceptable quality if they:
• are safe, durable and free from defects
• are acceptable in appearance and finish
• do everything that they are commonly used for(emphasis added)
Imagine this scenario:
4 years and 364 days after purchase, the inverter fails. It is immediately replaced. 2 days later, the replacement fails.
Does the replacement inverter pass the test of acceptable quality in your opinion?
Effectively - this says: If you buy a phone that's supposed to last 2 years, it breaks 6 months in and is replaced, the replacement unit still has to last the balance of the 2 years
That's not the only possible interpretation, I'm interested if you have legal training or some other source to verify yours is the canonical interpretation.
edit: if your interpretation is correct, then no-one should ever accept a replacement item when something fails. They should demand a full refund, as they are entitled to, and then buy a new one (probably at a lower price), which definitely resets the clock.
@abb: Consider that instead of lasting 4 years and 364 days, it lasts 5 years and 1 day. It breaks, and you're not entitled to anything. Why do you think consumer protection laws - which are aimed at protecting consumers, not giving them freebies - would entitle the consumer to an extra 4+ years of working product?
Effectively you treat the original+replacement as one unit, because you paid only once.
@HighAndDry: OK so I went to the law. https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2017C00375/Html/Volu…
264 Replaced goods
If the goods are replaced under section 261(c) or 263(4)(b):
(a) the replacement goods are taken, for the purposes of Division 1 of Part 3‑2 and this Part, to be supplied by the supplier; and
(b) the provisions of Division 1 of Part 3‑2 and this Part apply in relation to the replacement goods.The "provisions of Division 1 of Part 3‑2" include:
54 Guarantee as to acceptable quality
(1) If:
(a) a person supplies, in trade or commerce, goods to a consumer; and
(b) the supply does not occur by way of sale by auction;
there is a guarantee that the goods are of acceptable quality.(2) Goods are of acceptable quality if they are as:
(a) fit for all the purposes for which goods of that kind are commonly supplied; and
(b) acceptable in appearance and finish; and
(c) free from defects; and
(d) safe; and
(e) durable;
as a reasonable consumer fully acquainted with the state and condition of the goods (including any hidden defects of the goods), would regard as acceptable having regard to the matters in subsection (3).(emphasis added)
I maintain that my interpretation is supported by the legislation. (Presumably the legislators were aware of the simple workaround of simply demanding a refund, were your interpretation correct)
edit: Would I be correct in speculating that you are in the business of supplying goods (or services) to consumers, and therefore may be hoping your interpretation is correct? ;)
@HighAndDry: Just because the retailer/manufacturer say the product has a 5 year warranty does not mean under Australian consumer law that their obligations finish at this point. If it would be reasonable for a consumer to expect that a product of that price, & quality & application should last 8 years then that is the actual warranty period regardless of the manufacturers or retailers thoughts.
E.g. Apple used to provide a one year warranty on their phones in Australia although customers most often connected the phones to 2 year mobile contracts.
Apple was forced to honour repairs after the warranty expired as it was established based on the price, quality and use of the phones it was unreasonable to expect a customer to have to purchase two expensive phones just to see out the average phone contract. They have since lifted their warranty period to two years, but I guarantee if your phone failed after 30 months you would have a sound case for getting the phone fixed under ACL with a 3 year term perhaps being deemed more appropriate/expected for a premium mobile product.OP Has a point with regard to it taking about 10 years to gain back your investment in Solar Equipment and get any positive advantage out of the installation.
If inverters are failing after 3,4,5,6,7,8 years they have not been "fit for purpose", as their purpose is to be serviceable for a sufficient life to provide the purchaser a benefit.The OP has legal grounds to expect that the retailer/manufacturer should be on the hook for a replacement even though the manufacturers DESIRED warranty period has finished. Under Australian Consumer Law warranty periods are not determined by the manufacturer and their terms should be thought of as a recommendation only, if they are not sufficiently long to meet ACL the legal rights do not expire with the warranties end.
Any replaced part as warranty should apply the original statutory warranty period for the product. If having items repaired vs replaced you should insist on a detailed job report so you know what was done.
@abb:
"edit: Would I be correct in speculating that you are in the business of supplying goods (or services) to consumers, and therefore may be hoping your interpretation is correct? ;)"
I do wonder whether this Edit from ABB is the nub of certain postings - this being a Sales[/Commission Site]?
It would be expected that those with a 've$ted' interest might be most vociferous in promoting Consumerism, as central to Capitali$m!Must admit with our increasing wealth inequality, & most Australians suffering from either a debt overhang, or poorly paid & uncertain employment, the retail sector suffers.
Cheap imports not helping.
However, with the world population (including Oz) more than tripling since WW2 we don't want to have to dispose of a flood of unsatisfactory products :-(Perhaps I might look at the history for HighAndDry - but there are undoubtly many 'providers' interested?
Possibly using multiple accounts?
Would certainly sway voting ;-(Of interest, a long time ago, I commented that a Nobel prize winning economist had investigated the effect of investment advisers - "purely random results over time".
Evidence based study suggesting one might save on fees by using a chimp throwing darts ;-)
Naturally these 'experts', temporarily earning massive bonuses when chance meant that they outperformed their peers, chose to ignore the evidence collected by this Nobel Laureate. VE$TED INTERE$T$?Your local library can likely provide a copy of "Thinking, Fast & Slow" by Daniel Kaheman.
Might have been many financial advisers reading, as I was heavily downvoted for mentioning his investigation :-)Our tardy financial royal commission now highlighting the dangers of vested interests.
IIRC the new chair of AMP commenting as CEO of CBA when buying out CML, that a $32m payout to their investment chief was good value.
Unsurprisingly high fee AMP Super slag off low fee [good value] Union Super funds.Our ABC has highlighted the importance of OUR ACL.
Providers CAN NOT fob you off to the manufacturer - your provider having to take [initial] responsibility.RIGHTS UNDER [OZ] CONSUMER LAW are a matter of great importance!!!
They should be highlighted PROMINENTLY on OzBargain IMHO!
If this is already the case, please advise/correct me :-)
Can't find it but this was asked to the ACCC Facebook page about a hard drive. They said that the since it is a replacement, the product should last a reasonable time as well, same as the original.
The same factors to take into account, possibly, but:
Acceptable quality takes into account what would normally be expected for the type of product and cost.
Considering OP paid $0 for the second unit… it can't possibly be expected to last the exact same length of time.
Even if this were true, going by the original purchase date it could still be considered a breach of consumer protections to fail to service & repair an inverter after 7 years of purchase.
Why would the customer expect the second unit to be of inferior quality compared to the original?
There are cheap solar power inverters out there with 10 year warranties. Considering how much OP paid for theirs, it's reasonable for him to expect his to last at least that long. As it has only been a total of 7 years since original purchase, it should still covered under ACL. That's regardless of whether the statutory guarantee resets upon replacement.
No - that's the way it should be - that the replacement product also has to be merchantable and durable. Otherwise they can just supply crappy products they know will fail every few months/years, and never have to worry about them after the warranty period.
Not only that, a product has to last for the length of time a reasonable person would expect that products lifespan to be. For example, "2 year" warranties on fridges mean absolutely diddlysquat, because noone is replacing their fridge every 2 years.
A repaired or replaced product is expected to last for a similar duration as a new product free from defect.
name and shame
<insert some cheap Chinese inverter brand here>
European (Italian) inverter
and yet still no Brand listed in that comment.
European branded inverter of no name, made in china…. Is that better?
The price the OP paid means nothing without listing the brands. They most likely over paid for crap cheap parts thining they had been buying something good.
They also didn't pay $10k for the inverter, thats a complete system price, panels, inverter, wiring, LABOUR etc
and again without listing the brand who knows. If you had been remotely involved in the business, you would know that many china companies have 'overseas' front.
Claiming to be a 'USA' or German or Europe brand, by putting a office there, but really just a front for cheap china stuff.
You should get the 5yr warranty on the replacement product, just as you did on the first (https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Consumer%20Guarantees%2… page 15). Assuming the original failure was a "Major Failure" then you would have been entitled to choose a full refund. In which case you would have been able to purchase a new inverter which would have a full 5yr warranty. This logically supports the argument that your replacement item should also come with a full 5yr warranty.
Agreed. The first failure was a major failure with a completely dead inverter. I follow your logic and this makes sense and confirms I should expect the second unit which has had a major failure as well to be covered by the full 5yr warranty.
No, you agree with this logic only because you'd benefit. It doesn't make any sense. You make ONE purchase. You get ONE warranty period.
No, I understand my rights under consumer law.
From the ACCC, "Replacement (or exchange) of goods. If you are offered a replacement for a minor problem, or you choose a
replacement for a major problem, the replacement must be of the same type and similar value. If such a replacement is not reasonably available, you may need to choose a repair or a refund. The consumer guarantees that applied to the original goods will apply to any replacement goods."ORIGINAL goods, meaning the replacement carries on the original warranty. Not a new warranty.
You need to call the ACCC and talk to them rather than misinterpreting something that is very easy to understand.
@c0balt:
I have spoken this morning to both ACCC and WA Consumer Protection. They both confirmed the replacement is covered by a consumer guarantee that the product shall be of acceptable quality that applies form the replacement date not the original installation date.
eg if you expect the first item to last 5 years, then you expect the replacement identical item to also last 5 years.@c0balt: I can see where you are coming from, but I am very sure you are wrong. I believe the OP has the correct interpretation.
@Shark: Firstly, you obviously didn't since you posted this thread.
Secondly, you're still wrong. Here's from the ACCC itself:
https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/Warranties%20and%20refu…
Every time a consumer buys goods or services,
they are entering into a contract with the seller.
The Act says every one of these contracts
contains a number of obligations that sellers must
honour.Note that the ACL applies only every time you purchase something. This is also common sense. Since the warranty replacement isn't a separate sale, only the consumer guarantees which applied to the original goods apply.
Strange..
You made your original post 1 hour ago and made no mention of contacting the ACCC or consumer protection but were asking here about it after you were told you won't be getting a replacement, on the replacement after the original warranty ran out.
I'm not calling you a liar, but something really isn't right here. You wouldn't have made this post in the first place if you had called the ACCC and heard from them that you get a 5 year warranty on a replacement from a 4 year old product. You would be getting your 3rd replacement rather than asking us how to get it.
@djsweet: So a device has a 5 year warranty, every 4 years the device becomes faulty and is replaced. This could become an indefinite warranty at that interpretation.
@ricklee: that company shouldn’t guarantee their product for such a long time if it doesn’t last that long…
@ricklee: The implication here is that the business is selling a good that is not fit for purpose.
That being the case, the customer contracted to buy an item fit for purpose so the business YES, is on the hook under your scenario forever because they have failed to meet their obligations to supply a fit for purpose product. It would be consumers choice in that scenario to keep swapping units or receive a full refund…We have just about the best consumer protections in the world but miss out on being able to sue companies for millions for stupid reasons like in the US ;)
@ricklee: Yes that is how it should work. If the product is of acceptable quality the issue would not occur.
Nothing in your link says that you get a new warranty period with a unit that's replaced under warranty. Not to mention that a unit failing after 3 years due to wear-and-tear is far from a major failure. Your comment basically has nothing correct about it.
I think if you read the OPs comment on this post from 20 mins ago you may find that the ACCC has confirmed what I said.
I disagree, the ACCC is very clear on how warranties work with replacement goods, and you misread what it said.
You don't get a new 5 year warranty on a product that failed after 4 years. You get the extra year as per the original goods.
I think you'll find OP is still mistaken. You giving bad advice is not helping.
@HighAndDry:
I walked this through with both ACCC and WA Consumer Protection and they both advised what I have stated.
The unit did not fail due to wear and tear, it has been two completely dead units within 7 years. This appears to be a broader issue with this brand based on my research.@Shark: None of that really matters. You could argue that a solar inverter should be expected to last 10+ years regardless of what warranty the manufacturer/seller provides, and so it should still be replaced under the ACL.
But it's absolute nonsense that if, for example, you bought a solar inverter in 2001 with say a consumer guarantee of 10 years, that it gets replaced in 2010, then again in 2019, then again in 2028. I mean, for chrissakes man, use some common sense.
I walked this through with both ACCC and WA Consumer Protection and they both advised what I have stated.
Do have this in writing by either parties and what will they do about your claim?
Power electronics should last 50 years, not 3.
OP's inverter has to be running out of spec to fail consistently. Or OP was sold junk. Either case, the Installer has responsibilities here which they are failing to honour.
Lol no. Did we read the same sentence on page 15 relevant to the OP?
"The consumer guarantees that applied to the original goods will apply to any replacement goods."Original goods, meaning the 5 year warranty on the original inverter that was purchased as the replacement is not a purchase, but a.. replacement!
There are a lot of crafty people out there who could easily find a way to ensure they would have a warranty for life on a product if what you misread was the case.
"Consumer Guarantee" refers to the item being fit for purpose and lasting a reasonable amount of time. This guarantee applies to the replacement unit, just as it did to the first. Therefore, the replacement unit is expected to be fit for purpose and last a reasonable amount of time. Pretty straight forward.
All a supplier has to to is supply one product that is fit for purpose and lasts for a reasonable amount of time to get out of the "lifetime warranty" situation you mention.
Look, I understand you are trying to be helpful but you have made a mistake. I implore you to confirm with the ACCC before continuing with your 'advice' that a replacement product carries a new warranty, and not the one from the orignal goods.
A crafty person can make a product fail and look like it failed without user intervention, regardless how well a product was built for purpose. Something like an inverter would be one of the easiest things to do this to.
and lasting a reasonable amount of time.
"Reasonable" takes into account the nature of the goods and, get this, its cost. How much did the second unit cost OP? Oh, that's right, $0.
OP is now saying he already contacted the ACCC as he was replying to us and they told him that he should get the replacement from the replacement date, not the original date as per the ACCC consumer guidelines.
Take from that what you will.
@c0balt: Bleargh.
They didn't actually say OP gets the exact same consumer guarantee period, only that the same consumer guarantees apply. Of course, but the factors for how long the consumer guarantee period runs for is "nature and cost of the goods" - the replacement unit cost OP $0.
The ACCC is a government body staffed by bureaucrats and not by lawyers, which is why each phone call starts with some waiver to the effect "The information is provided as advice only and is not binding… blah blah".
The ACCC is always going to err on the side of the consumer, but err they still do, and at the end of the day it's the courts which decide what the ACL actually says and means, not the ACCC. And in any case, the plain wording of the ACL still says the consumer guarantee runs from the date of the purchase, because it comes into effect when the consumer buys a product or service.
Eh, good luck to OP.
@HighAndDry: The sale contract has been broken by the unit failing. A new unit is required to meet the obligation. This new unit, not the actual exchange of funds, has a statutory warranty. Failing that the consumer is entitled to a refund.
But the OP didn't get a refund and didn't buy a new inverter, so no they don't get a new 5yr warranty.
I don't quite agree on your interpretation, I'm guessing it's from this line:
The consumer guarantees that applied to the original goods will apply to any replacement goods.
That to me, means that the original warranty will apply to the replacement. i.e. it continues from your original warranty. Not that you have a new warranty attached to your replacement good. I think that to me, that would be consistent with the idea of warranty. Say if it is agreed by consumer law that a $100 watch should 'reasonably last 2 years', the watch fails at the 2yr mark. The manufacturer shouldn't now provide double the warranty that is reasonably expected from that $100 watch, or even anything more than what is reasonably expected just because it failed near the tail end of the warranty period.
In saying that, I don't know how expensive that inverter is relative to the other ones in the market, so I can't say exactly. But OP might have a case of the warranty being longer than that which the manufacturer is offering under consumer law, if he can show that it is reasonable for an inverter this expensive to last more than 5 years. If OP think he has a case, I would consider taking it to NCAT (or the equivalent in your state). If this particular good is a fair bit more expensive than the standard inverter, OP would probably get a partial refund at the very least.
I don't think your whole reasoning on why it extends to the replacement good is correct. If you want a refund on the goods to purchase something new with a new warranty, that's fine. You're within your right to do so for a major failure. But that's not what happened here. OP went with the replacement to remedy the defect on his original purchase.
You might better refer to a "consumer guarantee" than 'Warranty': as AUSTRALIAN Consumer Law overrides any Provider/Manufacturer "Warranty".
[Seller/Manufacturer warranties also can, & do, vary between countries.]A longer offered 'warranty' than provided under OZ overarching CONSUMER LAW might be helpful - but 'warranties' are often conditional, & depend on the provider remaining financial, not declaring bankruptcy.
Your watch example refers to an unlikely event - time periods being of PRACTICAL use.
{Perhaps you might distribute time event probabilities by financial outcomes?
Not all weighted in favour of the consumer in practice.}Our ACL seeming to offer a POTENTIAL redress against limited liability corporations that could profit from providing 'unsatisfactory' products.
Perhaps TRUSTING consumers might be better off by taking a refund for what is 'deemed' unsatisfactory under ACL. Time & trouble still a co$t to the consumer!
[As with eBay etc refunds, when out of time period, or 'unsatisfactory'?]In Shark's case he purchased a complete system, installed by an 'expert'.
The faulty Aurora inverter (subsequently redesigned by the manufacturer) beiing central to the operation of a total system.
[A faulty eneloop leaking & damaging an expensive LED torch, having further financial costs than just the battery.]I don't quite see where you're going with this.
You seem to be making a distinction between consumer guarantee and manufacturers warranty. I think most of us are well beyond that, as it is clear that the 5 year manufacturer warranty no longer applies. If that was all there is to it, this would've been case closed before the thread even started…
I did not use the term consumer guarantee, but surely you would've understood that's what I was getting at when I mentioned:
consumer law that a $100 watch should 'reasonably last 2 years'
For your 2nd point
Our ACL seeming to offer a POTENTIAL redress against limited liability corporations that could profit from providing 'unsatisfactory' products.
Perhaps TRUSTING consumers might be better off by taking a refund for what is 'deemed' unsatisfactory under ACL. Time & trouble still a co$t to the consumer!
[As with eBay etc refunds, when out of time period, or 'unsatisfactory'?]Let's not muddle things up. The issue here is how long can we reasonably expect the product to last. OP hasn't really made any complaint regarding whether or not it is fit for its purpose (when it was working), the service that was provided to install the good etc.
The issue is the time period. I read something about it a while back, but the gist of it when considering how long a product is expected to reasonably last under ACL, is to look at the nature of the good and the price of the good.
Going back to my watch example. If the industry standard is that a $100 watch can be reasonably expected to last 2 years, a similar watch which costs $1000 should be expected to last more than 2 years. If the manufacturer who sold you the $1000 watch provides anything less, then you could turn to consumer law to enforce a warranty/guarantee claim.
The point i'm getting at is the way I see it, when it comes to the warranty period at least. ACL is there to enforce a reasonable guarantee period (with the nature and price of the good in mind), not to provide a loophole for you to theoretically have an unlimited warranty period, like OP's post might suggest. Of course this would've been a different story if OP paid for the replacement.
I have sought advice from the ACCC and the WA Consumer Protection office.
The WA Consumer Protection office has confirmed that the consumer guarantee is from the replacement date and not the original installation date. And therefore I have the right to expect an acceptable quality of the replacement inverter.I call BS - get it in writing and show us.
It's already in writing on the ACCC site, which is one of many.
Nice, I hope my TV breaks every 2.8 years for the next 60 decades
Make and model of the inverter?
but the company are stating that they will not cover the inverter under warranty as their warranty starts at the original installation date (in 2011, 7 years ago) and not the date at which the inverter was replaced (which was only 3 years ago).
That is correct. Warranty doesn't start again because you had a failure and the item was repaired/replaced.
The item was SOLD in 2011, and offered 5 years of warranty, so any failure between 2011-2016 means they would repair/replace the device for you, free of charge.
Its now failed again, 7 years or 2 years past the warranty period.
OP should have bought an inverter with 10 years warranty !
and if they did, they would be covered still ;)
A "5-year" warranty may mean nothing if it's a product that a reasonable person would expect to last a lot longer than 5 years based on the expense of the item.
that a reasonable person would expect to last a lot longer than 5 years
and that also means nothing too. Just because you expect it to, doesn't mean others would.
I expect my $1 pen to last a lifetime….. But it doesn't. So should I get a replacement? No.
The OP hasn't given us the brand, nor the price paid the inverter.
Its some cheap nasty brand, simple as that. Its died after 7 years, move on.
I worked in the industry at the time, it is almost certainly the Aurora Power One, European manufactured inverter (Anglo-Italian). At the time sold as one of the top of the line equal/very near equal to the SMA Sunny Boy. The Chinese cheap inverters at the time were coming out as 2,3,4,5kW units not 3.6kW and were pieces of junk.
You could go through 3 Chinese inverters in a year on a single installation.
Company I was managing installed hundreds/thousands of the Auroras though, very few failures within the first few years when compared to cheaper products. I've since left the industry so don't follow all the outcomes but I guess it is always hard to forecast 6~10 years out from the initial couple of years.
I've since left the industry so don't follow all the outcomes
If it is a Aurora unit as you say, then they have a couple of common 'faults' and drop dead all the time at certain ages.
At the time sold as one of the top of the line equal/very near equal to the SMA Sunny Boy
Then it was sold as a lie then, as time showed they hadn't been anywhere near as good.
The good news is they are easily fixed and its problems are well-known.
The bad news is for the OP, yeah its long gone for warranty/ACCC/blah blah. Move on.
If the OP does have a Aurora unit, then a quick google will help them find the issue they are having and a repair path for it, including places that will 'fix' your unit and send it back.
Also If it was a Aurora unit, then it wasn't a NEW unit when the first one died, it was a refurb unit.
That said, the Aurora units WHEN working are fine units. They just had a few design flaws.
Under consumer law you have no more rights as warranty has expired, you need to buy a new inverter or pay for repairs for the existing one.
You do have 'rights' once the warranty runs out, but just because you had a replacement unit, doesn't mean the start date is reset.
So the question will be, buying a $3k inverter that lasted 7 years, that comes with a 5 yr warranty. Is this acceptable life span or not, this is the question.
I think this is.
https://www.solarquotes.com.au/inverters/
Typically, grid connected inverters have a life span ranging form 10 to 20 years. You should expect most inverters to last 10 years minimum.
Grid connected inverters have warranties ranging from 5 to 12 years with an increasing number of manufacturers offering pay for service warranty extension. Most retailers are now offering 8 to 10 years warranty. Obviously, the longer the warranty the more protection you have.
https://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/equipme…
Another solar instructor and I have a question about grid-tied inverter lifespan. I have read that an average lifespan is 11 to 14 years, and the warranties seem to reinforce this. My colleague believes that 20 to 25 years is more likely for modern inverters. I would tend to believe the latter due to more solid-state electronics in today’s ungrounded inverters, but I can find no data to support this.
https://sunenergy.com.au/solar-battery-last/
Commonly solar panels have installation warranties of around 15 years. Some are significantly longer, for example with a solar system purchased and installed by SunEnergy; the panels have a 25-year performance warranty. This is similar to inverters, which are designed to compete with the lifespan of your panels to ensure that your entire system operates on the same level. This is the result of significant testing processes that have determined how long a system can last before its efficiency begins to deteriorate naturally.
Love it when you pick and choose the quotes…… Why don't you quote all of it… From your first link
While the expected lifetime of a grid-tied inverter will vary depending on its design, component quality, and the environment it is operating in, lifetimes beyond 14 years are likely for most of the high-quality inverters now available.
So the question is, was this a high-quality inverter? The fact the OP won't list the brand, says lots.
For power electronics devices, the environment in which they are installed has a significant impact on their life. I’ve seen inverters fail in less than a year when poorly installed and exposed to insects and moisture
Fail in less than a year hey?
I stopped reading your links after the first one was cherry picked.
The google search was for the equivalent of "how long should solar inverter last". I am not an expert, so I simply did a search and had a glance through top few responses to get an estimation.
The fact that most of the responses are stating durations of a fair bit over 10 years, shows that 5 years is probably a little bit on the low side for "expected life".
The other thing to take into account was the original poster said it was a near top of the line model and not a budget model.
I'd say that would be enough evidence to argue that a "reasonable person" under Australian Consumer Law would expect it to last longer and to enforce their rights for it to be covered under ACL statutory warranty.
I welcome you to "cherry pick" your own links that say an inverter is only expected to last less than 5 years.
I am not an expert
But yet here you are giving your advice like its gospel….
OP said it was a near top of the line model and not a budget model.
In their eyes, but again without listing the brands, who knows. Maybe they just got ripped off, thinking they had been buying a top of the line system, but it was all cheap crap.
I'd say that would be enough evidence to argue that a "reasonable person" under Australian Consumer Law
Sorry, what evidence? We don't even know the brand of the inverter that failed.
SO I beg to differ, ask any EXPERT in the solar field, there is cheap and nasty, and cheap and good and great and costly.
So, WHAT IS THE BRAND that the OP has, as this really will be the answer to the question.
There is no blanket, inverter must last 10 years claim like you say.
as I said before, the article says high-quality inverter, not cheap crap inverter.
that say an inverter is only expected to last less than 5 years.
In the eyes of the ACCC, the OPs inverter lasted 7 years. Replacements don't 'reset' the clock.
The warranty is on the product. Not on the financial transaction.
The warranty is on the product. Not on the financial transaction.
and that product is now '7 years old'.
This second inverter has now failed after only 3 years.
The express warranty is 7 years old, the product is obviously only 3 years old.
Who would expect to replace an inverter every 3 years? Nobody. That's why the OP is entitled to another refund/replacement.
@McFly: Warranty isn't 'reset' when an item is replaced.
The OP got what they paid for…. 5 years of the inverter working, So the warranty is done.
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You have the right to contact the ACCC or relevant state fair trading department to ask them.