Seeking Advice on Electrical Plan for New Home

0FoxGiven on 04/06/2018 - 14:53
Last edited 04/06/2018 - 15:32

I'm having a new house build (Single Storey, in a Western suburb of Victoria) starting in a few months (hopefully) and I have to decide on the electrical plan soon. Now I would prefer NOT to go with the builder options for most things that I can get done after handover because they charge an arm, leg and a kidney for every upgrade. They charge ~$130 for every LED downlight to be installed and quite a bit for extra switches and plug points and I don't think that the quality of any of them justifies the cost. I would like to get the LED down lights, some switches and plug points installed later by a qualified sparky after handover. Now, I would like to know what exactly do I need to get done by the Builder's Sparky (BS) in order to be able to have the Post-Handover-Sparky (PHS) to get everything done in the most cost-effective way.

  • LED downlights: I did some online research and I see some people say that all I need the BS to do is get a junction box installed in the ceiling for each room or each on/off switch that require a bunch of downlights connected to it and the PHS can wire them all to the junction later. Is this right? If so, would I need to have the BS install the switch(s) that will control the to-be-installed-downlights in the wall as well? Or can the PHS install the wall switches easily enough on his own without ripping apart the wall plaster to lay a conduit. repainting the wall and stuff?
  • LED downlights: I also came across posts that say it would be better to have a power socket clipped on to the flexible power cable for EVERY downlight. If I chose to go with the Junction box option, would I still need to do this?
  • Switches & Plugs: Can the PHS easily install switches & plugs that I purchase myself as long as I want it installed right next to an existing switch or plug?
  • Ceiling Fan/ Large light: When I asked the builder's sales consultant about how I should go about it if I want to have a fan of my own choosing installed later, they mentioned that it wouldn't be a problem and they would provide a "noggin" which can be later used for this purpose. Sounded pretty straight forward. Do you guys see any issues with that?
  • Security Cameras (internal and external) : Do I need to have separate Junction Boxes setup if I need cameras installed later? If so, how do I decide where to place them? For example, if I need a security camera hanging off one of my external walls, do I need a junction box placed in the ceiling of the room adjacent to the wall?

Would really appreciate your thoughts! Thanks in advance.

Home & Garden Downlight Power Socket

Comments

  • GG57 on 04/06/2018 - 15:22
    +2

    You should probably ask an electrician

    • Baysew on 04/06/2018 - 15:29

      BS?

      • iand on 09/06/2018 - 10:36

        2nd last line of 1st paragraph Builders Sparky (BS)

  • miicah on 04/06/2018 - 15:46

    Is this one of those off the plan places? 99% chance you won't be able to tell the sparky what you want, you either pick from their options or nothing.

  • EightImmortals on 04/06/2018 - 15:56

    Don't forget network point throughout the house too. Unless you prefer wifi?

    • 0FoxGiven on 04/06/2018 - 17:15

      I get two network points included in my base quote. I plan to use powerline plugs if I need more

      • EightImmortals on 04/06/2018 - 17:18

        Fair enough. How much do extra network points cost though? Wouldn't be too much I guess, a bit of CAT6 and some patch panels?

      • GangGang on 04/06/2018 - 17:43
        +3

        You're building a new house. Do it properly. Get proper Cat lines running through instead of powerline adapters/WiFi extenders.

        • vinni9284 on 04/06/2018 - 18:27
          +1

          This.

          I have built 5 years ago and only have 2 data points (standard). Considering that I have the WiFi router at the center of the house, I would have preferred to use more data points around the house if another time around.

          The signal using CAT lines are way superior.

          Cheers

      • vinni9284 on 04/06/2018 - 18:12

        Just be aware that Powerline plugs don't work well if you use it on an external surge protector/e.g. 6 plug adapter

  • pjetson on 04/06/2018 - 16:00
    +2

    Electrical cabling is much more difficult (and therefore probably much more expensive) after the plaster has gone on.

    I suggest you find an electrician and talk to them to get an idea of costs - it could easily be more expensive, and you may have to make compromises due to some things not being practical after the plaster is on.

  • geek001 on 04/06/2018 - 16:06

    It really depends on how the walls are built. Sometimes it is not possible to run wires down the walls without cutting the plasterboard and it may be best to run the wires when the house is built. If you are building a low-set house and looking to put in extra lights later, it is likely that you can do that after handover, as you can always run wires through the ceiling, but adding power points could be difficult.

  • Ryanek on 04/06/2018 - 16:09

    Couldn't you just install regular lights in the location you want your down-lights? When you're ready just convert them to down-lights because the cabling is already there. That means all the switches are already set.

    • vinni9284 on 04/06/2018 - 18:15

      You mean regular baton lights?

      The LED down lights don't disperse light as well as the baton lights. For example for a bedroom, one baton light in the center will be replaceable with 4 down lights (at each corner)
      Disclaimer: I built 5 years ago and the LED down lights weren't really bright. I am sure that there are now better LED lumens

      Cheers

  • fantombloo on 04/06/2018 - 16:53

    Not specifically answering your question but…

    IME flooding a room with light, except where it might be expressly needed such as in a kitchen, leads to a less comfortable atmosphere. Don't go overboard, particularly with downlights.

    Also, consider replacing ceiling lights with wall lights. Ceiling lights illuminate the top of your head and other horizontal surfaces, wall lights illuminate faces and other things you actually look at.

  • vinni9284 on 04/06/2018 - 18:19

    You will notice that there is a cost for Junction Boxes around the place and I believe they charge around $100 for each?
    If you factor this times how many you may place, the price may not be that substantially different to BS.
    Plus, using the BS you save with the "wriggle" clause that builders love doing when you claim for issues if you have used an external installer (PHS)

    Cheers

  • timthetoolman on 04/06/2018 - 19:26

    Get them to install one normal halogen or whatever they normally do in a place you'll want your downlights later, sparky can just run the new downlights off that. I doubt the builders will be able to just leave a jbox with no lights for you to move in to?

    Data for security cameras don't really need power cable anymore, most are run through cat5 which you can buy and run yourself ( or get your sparky to)

    The noggins are just so you can secure your fan to timber in the roof, and not just plaster.
    For the amount they are charging you (ie$130 for a down light) i'd be getting someone else to do it after as well, but there is a fair bit of work so you might end up paying a lot.

    good luck

  • HighAndDry on 04/06/2018 - 19:55

    Now would be a great time to start asking around to find an electrician to do this work post-handover. Not only will you get better advice from someone who can see getting paid for it down the line, but you'll also avoid mix ups if one electrician tells you one thing, and the person you find to do the job says the builder needed to do XYZ more.

  • [Deactivated] on 08/06/2018 - 22:18

    For single brick plaster walls (ie interior walls) it will be cost prohibitive to add plugs/switch etc after the plaster has gone up. For double brick walls (walls on the outside of the house) it is not difficult to add plugs to and you should raise with the builder that you can get these done far cheaper afterwards, they might not give a shit.

  • 4KGrubby on 09/06/2018 - 00:27
    +1

    A couple questions:
    1. Will the internal walls of your house be brick or stud/plasterboard?
    2. If they’ll be brick, are you getting conduit put in for the light switches? Has the builder mentioned it?
    3. Is the roof metal or tiled? (Not a massive issue, but tiles are a lot easier to install stuff for the PHS)

    Regarding the lighting situation, I would ask if you can get the BS to install the single batten light in each room in a position of one of the downlights, instead of the standard centre of the room. Ie. in a bedroom if you want 4 DLs, get them to have the batten in one of those DL positions instead of the middle, this will save you on patching when you convert. The PHS will easily be able to install cables coming off that light and add the others, but they will come on with the same switch that operates that light. If you want multiple switches to operate multiple things (ie if you want to add a ceiling fan afterwards) you will need extra cables at that light switch, unless you don’t mind the switch/controller for the fan to be installed on an outside wall… imho, if you haven’t already, find out the cost of putting conduit in the walls for the light switches (only the ones you want to add extra appliances to be controlled from, I highly recommend people put conduit at their bathroom switch, because a lot of people add an IXL heat/light/fan afterwards)

    As far as GPOs (power outlets) go, try to get all your GPOs in the house installed on the internal walls (its easier for the PHS to install new GPOs on outside walls later). Installing new GPOs right next to the others, easy enough if it’s plasterboard, if brick however, not really possible, except to have it back to back on the other side of the brick wall.

    Ceiling fan, yeah noggin for it would be good yeah. Just note where you want to have the switch for them, and keep in mind you will need extra cables to that, so if it’s an internal wall, see if you can get that organized, or alternatively, have conduit run then shouldn’t be a problem for the PHS.

    Security cameras, have you already purchased your security cameras? If you already have, or know what sort of system you are getting that would be handy knowing, because like mentioned earlier a lot of the security cameras these days are powered over Ethernet (Cat6/data cable) but some systems have their own 12V power cable etc. let us know what cameras you are going for.

  • iand on 09/06/2018 - 11:16

    Have you checked out pricing to have the work done after? $130 supply and fit doesn't sound so outrageous to me I got quoted $40-$50 per downlight about 8 years ago with me supplying the GU10 fitting and globe.Also weigh up what the total cost difference is as don't forget you will need to patch up and paint over the holes left from the original lights unless you can have them placed where a new one will go, you will also have the inconvenience of having to arrange to get someone in at a time that suits you then the movement and covering of furniture so they can place the lights where you want them

    Note if it's a double story house it's a going to be a pain to get them fitted into the lower floor ceiling after it's built and the more difficult the higher the price

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