I'm not going to go into detail of what my actual job is but I work in IT for a fairly large business. I have been a full time casual for over 2 years now and have been working from a month by month basis. Everytime I ask my manager I get told they are trying to fit me into a full time contracted position but never really hear much more than that. They have given me some basic reasons why they cant put me on which I kinda understand. I love my job and the people I work with. What are my rights and is there any advise you guys can give me? Maybe you've been in a similar situation before.
2 Year Casual, What Are My Rights?
Davo723 on 24/05/2018 - 14:48
Comments
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They hired you as Casual. You could be there 10 years and they don't have to put you on full time.My advice though, start looking, sometimes all it takes is for you to find a new role and resign, and then they'll offer a contract.
You can also use the new role are a negotiating tool.
Pretty sure OP has the right to move to a full time contract, as long as you have been working regularly during that time. Best bet is to talk to your union. If you don't have a union, get one
Look into this OP http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-05/fair-work-decision-…
"Casual workers win right to request permanent employment after 12 months under Fair Work ruling"
and seek proper advice from people who know what they are talking about
He has the right to request. The employer has the right to refuse.
No, you've misrepresented the employer's right. Additionally the employer hasn't refused, they've just made excuses. If they haven't given a reasonable reason by now, they probably dont have one.
"Employers can refuse the request on reasonable grounds, including that it would require a significant adjustment to a casual employee's hours of work or they could foresee their position would no longer exist in the next 12 months."
Being willfully ignorant of workers rights helps businesses exploit workers
Everytime I ask my manager I get told they are trying to fit me into a full time contracted position
Unless this is specifically noted in your employment contract, in writing (that you will get a full time position after a specific period) a verbal promise doesn't really amount to anything.
They can dangle a carrot at the end of your hamster wheel and tell you to keep working at it, you'll eventually get to eat that carrot… but then again you might not.
If you dislike your current position, then start working at your resume and applying for new jobs yesterday. My advice is: Don't get too attached to your workplace. You might like it there and the people you work with are awesome, but still think for yourself and make some plans for an exit if the company isn't working in your interests.
Businesses solely exist to make money and they can't always make room for career progression. If there's no room for you — look elsewhere.
Yeah you're probably right. Thanks for the advice.
You'll be posting '3 years casual' this time next year and they'll be telling you the same basic reasons.
12 years ago i worked in a school, i became a full time employee after 3 months (because im a male) and the female teachers were casual for up to 5-6 years. there was the horrible workplace bias that the female teachers were going to start families and take maternity leave. I cannot confirm if this was the reason for the difference in full-time/casual appointments, but i was given the impression and criticism by the people i worked with. Possibly still exists, and most probably not only education is affected by that bias. Now that i work OS, female coworkers live with the doom that when they start a family theyre out of the job and maternity leave is nothing compared to what is possible in AU.
Dont worry about loving your job and the people you work with, love yourself because you're the most capable person you know. You can get that in many places.
Privately, do your research and find a similar/more convenient job and work towards, then accomplish your goals of full-time permanent work.Find a full time job and give your 2 weeks notice. They are just stringing you along. You’re casual they can let you go at ANYTIME… You have basically no rights…
If they ask you to stay tell them you want $10K more than your new job is giving you. Settle for $5 or 6K
Feels bad man. I have had this thought a few times but never done anything about it. Probably worth giving it a go. Never know the new job might be better.
Update your LinkedIn and resume and apply for a few IT admin jobs. Depending on what your role is now you might want to consider doing a windows system admin course or CCNA. Then apply for network admin jobs.
Are you covered by an award? Many Awards have casual to FT/PT transition arrangements or requirements. If you are working 'full time' for 2 years you would likely be treated as a FT employee by FWC.
Im not too sure what you mean by award. What's that? Haha
Awards (modern awards) are legal documents that outline the minimum pay rates and conditions of employment.
They are listed here
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/awards-and-agreements/awards/lis…They have nothing to do with shiny gold badges.
Darn I was really hoping for a trophy. How would I find out if I have that?
Look at your job description. If you don't have a job description… ask your HR department for one or ask them what award you're covered under. Or just ask your colleagues.
There is a 'find my award' link on the left. https://www.fairwork.gov.au/awards-and-agreements/awards/fin…
Apply for F/T job and receive an offer. Leverage that against current workplace that you have been offered full-time work but would rather stay, then wait…profit. Don't worry about the people you work with, work relationships come and go, everyone moves on eventually.
Start applying somewhere else, once you land a gig, tell your current employer and give them an ultimatum. Make you fulltime or I walk. They are taking advantage of you, stand up for yourself and look after #1
The makes no sense at all, if you have a new job, why would you care if your previous employer makes you full time or not, you have no leverage, you are basically coming from a very weak position at best. You assume the op is essential in their position, however if they were then they would have already been offered a f/t job. So it makes no difference either way.
I think it makes no sense that you think it makes no sense. OP is happy with their job and they want to stay there. Getting the new job is a backup plan if they continue to refuse to make you fulltime. They will continue to say its coming until they realise you are actually about to leave. If they truly value you, they will move mountains, if they are fine with you leaving then you should move on anyway. Being a casual has no job security whatsoever, if they didnt what OP there they would have let OP go long ago. Better the job you are happy with than a new job that you may hate. Equally, better to have an employee you are happy with than having to replace them with a potential dud, not to mention the cost of training and recruitment. If a little incentive is required for them to take action than so be it.
Yeah I know what you mean, they definitely don't want me gone compared to most people in my team I do a high amount of work. But then again I don't know how badly they want me either. It's doing my head in.
doing a high amount of work
this is why they dont make you permanent. you're already a bargain.
Do keep doing your research about the workplace, as there is a lot to learn about your circumstances, and you can gain a lot of business sense as a result
Only problem with using another offer as a bargaining tool is that; the company may grant you a F/T position and wage increase to keep you.
Perhaps so you can complete some current projects then 3 months after the change say to you "goodbye we have to let you go as we have no work for you" as punishment for holding them to ransom.
This is of course after the other job offer has been refused and no longer available and you will be out in the shit
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-05/fair-work-decision-dec…
"Casual workers have won the right to request permanent employment if they work regular hours over a year, under a ruling by the industrial umpire."
The business owner probably knows about this rule therefore they aren't saying "no", but just giving you a non answer. And a 'right to request' full time doesn't mean the employer has to give it to you.
I guess I have requested it many times. Thanks for the reply.
But have you requested it through formal channels, in writing? You said "everytime I ask my manager…" but do you mean you have a discussion or do you mean you put in a formal request for clarification of your position via your HR team/recruitment/the company boss etc?
i think this is what you have to do if you haven't already done so. Of course you may have, and I'm just not getting that from what you have written. In which case - FairWork.gov.au
Unless you're vital for the business, unfortunately working at a large business makes you a disposable asset. So in this case just job hunt around for a FT position.
If your current employer isn't going to give you what you want, you have to let go and move it along.
It'll be a win for youYou are classed as a 'long term casual' so you have extra rights; namely that you can ask for flexible hours and take parental leave.
If you take a full time position you'll get less money, you'd be getting a casual loading at the moment.
Yes and no. Technically Id go up a pay bracket so It would be about the same pay plus permanent benefits.
get a job somewhere else and leave. the company doesn't give a shit about you. don't even leverage a new job offer against your current employer, they don't deserve you.
Tell them if they can't hire you FT then you will not be their employee. Go apply for ABN. Turn yourself into a self employed contractor. Charge them contractor rates. You give up employee benefits( if you are getting any) but you are not tied to these monkeys. Find more job to fit in your free hours. Under $75k you don't have to charge GST.
I think you should be seizing every opportunity to impress your management. Offer to work after hours every chance you get. Express interest in current projects you're not involved with. Get certifications related to the systems you work with (study in your own time). Always arrive early and never leave early - check with your colleagues if there is anything you can help with before leaving. If you're a 9-5 guy in IT you wont get far.
Thanks for the advice :)
I'm gonna go ahead and say don't do this; the chances of it being utterly wasted effort and your employer simply being chuffed at how much extra work you're doing and enthusiasm you're showing for ultimately nothing are pretty high, and there's no real incentive to transition you to full time as I highly doubt the amount of actual work you're getting done is the reason why you're still casual - it sounds to me the employer is like maaaany employers in this generation, and that's one who is cautious and unprepared to commit, or doesnt like too many FT employees as overhead. In any case, from your other comments on this thread, it sounds like you're already that guy/gal and in my experience being 'the best employee' is all you need to be, but you dont need to be exceptional beyond that; it's almost like that expression where they say "you don't have to be faster than the bear, you just have to be faster than the other guy".
As others have said here, employers do not engender loyalty in staff, nor do they often act in a way to deserve it; do the thing that serves you best; treat people respectfully; work hard enough to make yourself proud; give and receive favours that make you feel good inside; and ultimately, at the end of the day, make sure that your employment situation respects and suits you.
You asked for "opinions" so mine would be:
Be firm (but respectful) in your pursuit for FT work with this employer - seek a straight answer, if you're in good standing and do this cordially, they will give you an answer that you can work with and it shouldn't be too abrasive on your relationship - employers are just people, and usually they understand the nature of work (effort for remittance), so employees who seek a better understanding of their employment situation are not uncommon or unreasonable, and if they seem to not understand this, i would say you're in the wrong place.Good luck, this is a learning process and almost always one shrouded by uncertainty, but no matter what you will learn something about people and yourself, and hopefully you will be better off for it.
Wow thanks for the lengthy reply, I will definitely take this on board. What you said about this being a learning process is 100% correct. This is unmarked waters for me. Thanks again <3
I'm pretty sure you would be eligible for the benifits of a perm role, if they cut your contract or didn't renew, you could make a case for a redundancy.
I work in tech recruitment within financial services, our HR business partners are always worried about this.
How would I go about doing that?
You have the right to leave
You have the right to wait for a FT job
You have lots of other rights, but they are not really relevant.