Hi.
My friend (don't have insurance) was driving Honda Civic and he was going in a street. Traffic was stopped and there was KEEP CLEAR area, from where he has to enter, but another car i30 (have insurance) came from bus lane and hit the front bumper of Honda Civic, so who is at fault? Please check photos for more understanding of it.
Update-The another guy (i30) does not accept the liability, and AAMI also putting a blame on (civic) now.
Or a taxi, or any dozens of other vehicles that can use bus lanes.
You say “traffic was stop”. Did the i3 start moving suddenly after your friend entered keep clear area or he didn’t see i3 when he entered? I believe both will be at fault for causing the accident.
Friend: because he entered without giving way
I3: driving on bus lane and taking no effort to stop an accident.
Good luck.
just posted a update
Did you take a lot of photos of the accident and file a police report? If you can prove the car was going straight then they are doing something illegal which will heavily work in your friend's favor.
If i30 was going left who supposed to give way?
If the i30 was turning left it wasn't doing anything illegal and has right of way compared to the car turning right.
right of way
Australia doesn’t have right of way.
Australia doesn’t have right of way.
What do you call it then? If traffic was still moving forward and the Civic ran into oncoming traffic, no one has right of way?
no one has right of way?
that's right. australia doesn't recognise the concept of right of way in matters of road traffic like some other counties.
the vehicle turning right at an intersection must give way unless there are signs permitting otherwise, but both vehicle must give way to prevent a collision.
So if I side swiped you while attempting a U-turn, by your definition, you're partially at fault too because you didn't give way to me to avoid the collision.
The vehicle that are trying to do a u turn must follow the road rules in their state when doing so. The vehicles that are traveling towards the vehicle that are trying to do a u turn must take reasonable steps to prevent a collision by either slow down, slow down and change lanes or stop.
This is neither my definition nor an opinion. Australian road rules doesn’t include right of way. It uses the definition give way.
You didn't answer my question?
If i side swiped you, you're partially at fault for not giving way to prevent the collision?
One is usually more wrong than the other, usually the one who had the least right of way.
@Ughhh: If you don't take reasonable action to avoid an accident then of course you are at some degree of fault.
If you intentionally ram someone because you have 'right of way' then it is not even an accident at all, it is an intentional act - which is a crime.
Even if the car in the bus lane was going straight it wouldn't matter. Sure he can be issued a fine for it but OP's friend is still at fault
I30 can still be going straight at the intersection and then turning into a driveway within 50m of entering the lane, or they entered the road within the last 50m. Both legal uses of the bus lane.
One thing I forget to mention traffic was STAND Still.
traffic was STAND Still.
It makes no difference to the give way rules. Vehicles turning right at a t junction must give way unless there are signs permitting otherwise.
Witnessed a similar scenario at same spot (Warrigal rd, Ashburton) about 3 weeks ago, but it was a bus that crashed into a car. Traffic was backed up and other cars had waved driver through to turn but driver must have forgotten to check bus lane… Funnily enough driver was yelling at bus driver suggesting it was their fault because she had been "waved" to go ahead.
But my brother work in taxi club, his owner believes he can win
The owner thinks he may win because he owns a nightclub and have deep pockets?
haha,Taxi club, he deals with accident cases on regular basis.
Oh look it's the weekly "I'm at fault but don't have insurance, can I try and shift the blame on to someone else?"
You'll spend more money in court and legal fees for the same outcome. Maybe your friend should consider using that money instead for insurance..
Doesn't really matter what gets said here, or what you think, the insurance company will decide who is at fault and you will have to go to court if your disagree. Cops wont care as this is a minor accident.
Only way this can work out for your friend is if he/she/it/heshe pleads with the other driver to claim on other insurance and your friend will pay the excess plus a gift (few hundred buckaroos)
other guys already launched the claim
But my brother work in taxi club, his owner believes he can win this case for civic.To be continued…
Wtf is a taxi club?
The another guy (i30) does not accept the liability, and AAMI also putting a blame on (civic) now.
YOU THINK?? The other car is ALLOWED TO BE IN THE BUS LANE. They were probably about to turn left… YOUR FRIEND (or brother?) MUST GIVE WAY… Even if they are being a arse and undertaking traffic your friend still has to give way to them.
One thing I forget to mention traffic was STAND Still.
It doesn't matter. Your friend/brother (or was it you who did this?) MUST GIVE WAY. What if there was a cyclist? Or Motorcyclist? Or bus?
The private insurance company doesn't do insurance for TAXI, that why there is TAXI CLUB they provided the insurance. I also think Civic is at fault, but I am just letting you know, I will post any update i get.
Sssh. The first rule of TAXI CLUB is not to talk about TAXI CLUB.
The only way the red i30 could be at fault is if they were travelling exceptionally fast. This would mean the white Civic could have looked up the bus lane, seen that it was clear and then proceeded to complete their turning manoeuvre safely.
traffic was still he was breaking the law the by jumping queue using the bus lane
Unless he was about to turn left.
I think I speak on behalf of all of OzBargain when I say:
If your friend ends up NOT being liable for the damage, I want the number of the guy that got him off.
Haha sure.
Rumour has it that the boss of Taxi Club is Harvey Spectre himself.
Civic in the wrong, they were turning right and you have to give way to everything whether it's supposed to be there or not. The person sneaking up the bus lane shouldn't be doing it, but the person turning right needs to give way to all oncoming traffic, even it's a sneaky bastard in the bus lane.
Open and shut case - Civic is in the wrong.
You say "traffic was STAND Still" but then "came from bus lane and hit the front bumper of Honda Civic". Clearly traffic was not at a stand still. It REALLY sucks, but don't drive uninsured.
This is around the corner from my house. That stretch of warrigal road always has hoons doing stupid things.
Anyway, your friend is boned either way. If he takes it to court, the likely best outcome will be a split of liability. In which case, your friend will need to pay whatever costs associated with going to court.
There's no way that any magistrate will say that it is completely the fault of the Hyundai.
Moral of the story - get insurance & be thankful that nobody was hurt in the accident.
I hope your brother gets freedom one day. Human ownership isn't cool anymore :(
Yeah, this Taxi club doesn't sound like a nice place.
You don't talk about the Taxi Club.
Astonishing. A couple of mates and 13 voters (assuming drivers) are unaware of arguable one of the first 3 road rules. How did your mate get a license?
How is this even a question. People unaware of road rules (or common sense - assume there were no cars????) behind the wheel is exactly the reason you mate should not drive uninsured, or the reason premiums have rocketed, possibly prompting him to make this decision.
Victorian licensing needs an overhaul. The blame needs to be shifted from 'speed kills'to driver training, competency based testing should be mandatory - 2 retires only. After that - take the bus (at least your mate now knows where he can catch a bus from).
How does Mr taxi club get it wrong lol
Are you saying speed doesn't kill?
Those Keep Clear areas are cancerous, I see so many accidents caused by them on Dashcam videos. If there's a truck or van in the middle lane then that can block the visibility to the bus lane.
Also many bus lanes aren't 24 hours ones. I drive in a bus lane every day because it stops being a bus lane after 10AM.
Accidents? Keep Clear zones cause accidents? I thought they were meant to assist traffic flow?
What you are explaining is a driver making a decision when not armed with all of the information to make that decision. These are not accidents, the Keep Clear zone is not at fault. The driver is taking a guess, and making a mistake. Driver training/education, license 'test' - these need to be improved to remove guess work.
Don't cross until you're 100% sure it's clear.
Anyone doing anything else is an idiot.
As long as the car in the bus lane was not breaking the speed limit your friend is at fault.
Car in the bus lane would have to be found guilty of dangerous driving before they would be found liable - a little over the speed limit wouldn't be sufficient.
I would say they would need to be at least 30km/h faster, and his friend would need to be able to be able to prove they were doing that speed.
In any case, any discussion in this direction would be totally academic and wouldn't help OP's friend.
haha blasting down the bus lane at 60+30 = 90kmph past stationary traffic is absolutely dangerous driving and there would be no question of fault.
A little bit over and I agree it would be hard to prove that it was a contributing factor at all.
Civic failed to give way and is stupid for not having 3rd party insurance (like $200-300 a year)
Now he will be paying off that i30 for some time
They should be thankful it wasnt a more expensive BMW or Merc
Should be thankful it wasn't a motorcycle travelling in the bus lane, which they are legally allowed to do. That wouldn't have ended well for anyone.
I didn't see you is not really a valid excuse.
Your friend should get better at driving, and maybe insurance on top of that
make me wonder how many people dont have insurance now
I'm thinking i30 is at fault.. You can turn if it is safe to do so. However you must give way to all oncoming traffic. If traffic is flowing you cannot turn.
It's hard to work out what happened from the photo. I'm thinking the civic was completing the turn and the i30 started to turn from the bus lane? Unless they the (i30) are turning left they can't use the bus lane.
he was going in straight in the bus lane.
Funny how so many people post queries here on behalf of their "friend", who also happens to have no insurance of course.
Your friend is lucky he didn't kill anyone on a bike!
Traffic did not stop, it only stopped in 2 out of 3 lanes… Civic does not have right of way
With posts like this one why is the OP always writing on behalf of the infamous "my friend" character?
Because on the internet, everybody is always asking…for a friend.
I think that the OP also happens to be their own best (and probably only) friend in cases like this.
The one without insurance is at fault.
Anything else is irrelevant.
Can the government make car insurance compulsory already.
Annoy the hell out of me dealing with drivers with no insurance.
Why? Just get their details and let the insurance company deal with them.
Had the exact same thing happen to me way back when I was 18. I was turning when a car came flying up a bus lane. I thought he was clearly in the wrong, as he couldn't be seen in the bus lane due to stopped traffic facing the same way. he was trying to beat the traffic. I turned, he hit me. Insurance companies took it to court. Court said it was 80% my fault and 20% his. I call bull Sh1t!, but that was the ruling. Sadly for me, it meant I had to pay 80% of the cost of having his new Alpha Romeo fixed. He only had to pay 20% of having my POC repaired. Only winners were the law rats.
That kinda sums it up. I think you were lucky you didn't have to pay 100% of the cost of having his new Alpha Romeo fixed.
That's ridiculous logic. If you can't see traffic that you have to give way to, you don't proceed or you proceed very slowly. There's no "I didn't see it so I'm not at fault" excuse.
@HighAndDry
You and most of the commenters on these threads may not like it but that’s how civil law works with car accidents and the concept of "contributory negligence".
In @boomer’s example and OP’s example the car with right of way hit the turning car. The car with right of way has the power to prevent the accident regardless of any law the turning car breaks.
Unless the car with right of way can show that they can prove they did everything "reasonable" to avoid the accident then they can be shown to be partially at fault.
Eg if the speed limit was 60, they were doing 60, and the traffic was built up in other lanes then it could be argued they were not driving "reasonably". A "reasonable" person slows down and drives in a manner that anticipates other’s driving errors
I'm guessing from the lack of updates from the OP that the friend has copped the blame officially?
At least have 3rd party insurance if it was an old civic….. but if it was a newish even a 2005+ model, I would still get comprehensive insurance. Any insurance!
Poor guy now has to fork out the money for repairs. But yes, the civic is at fault.
Lets pray for his wallet
update-I didn't talk to him lately, but I came to know from mutual friends that he is ignoring all calls from insurance and he did not fix his car also. I don't know what he is up to and Mr. TAxi club told him he cant help either since he doesn't have insurance, and he does not want to waste his time on this.
Your friend is lucky it wasn’t a bus.