Hello ,
im a international student current studing advanced diploma in IT and im strugling to find any it job related i sent many resume and most o them with no reply.
So anyone have been in the same sutuation as me? and how to breakk it through that situation.
Thanks :)
Nah im typing on my mobile on my way back home. Resume it is spotless no grammar miss spellings…
all good!
would encourage you to build/do something that makes you stand out. Maybe build websites or show some form of coding skill by building a basic app. Something that would demonstrate your IT skill.
getting a job is a numbers game, so keep at it and you'll get something, might not be ideal but a foot in the door is the best way to go upwards.
100% agree with a bit extra work to make you stand out.
I got my job from first interview, at interview, instead of speaking, I brought and showed a lot of my project work at Uni (Electrical engineering), then i got the job. Your work will demonstrate your skills better than resume.
@ghostdom: Good call - the first thing they do after they sift through your resume is check out your github (or equivalent) account. If it looks like it's dead they think you don't do anything.
Rule # 1 If you have foreign sounding name , change it.
False.
More Indians in IT than Aussies (Big 4 bank).
I'd have to disagree with this. I've got a Vietnamese name that's very difficult to pronounce. Had no trouble getting interviews. I think it's overlooked if your CV has the skills and experience that the recruiter/hiring manager is looking for. This is based on my experience anyway.
@itsdougie:
The top management does the same. All the CEOs, GM's etc fill the positions with their mates and of course the pockets. No one gives a crap about the actual business.
I did a little experiment with this while I was looking for my first job.
I have a Chinese name and an English name, and I found that when I use my English name on the resume, I get more callbacks.
Not saying all companies are like this but some, in my opinion. My first intern job is with NAB, and I used my Chinese name at the time.
Concur.
English names will get you the interview.
'foreign'name will get you interviews for jobs you will enjoy more.
The bosses that have a name bias, be it conscious or unconscious, create a workplace culture that continues the bias.
Vietnamese name that's very difficult to pronounce
You lieeeee…. Dang isn't that hard to pronounce! haha
This is Legit.
lebbo mate (born and bred in sydney) graduated from uni with accounting degree, used his birth name on CV
applied for numerous roles and didnt get much callbacks
Changed his first name from Ali to Alan and bingo, recd heaps of callbacks!
sure about that mate?
Spell check, punctuation and upper/lowercase is a good start. I'm not even being sarcastic. If I get your resume and it looks anything like this post, it goes straight into the bin.
Not sure about grammar…
This. OP, please use an app like this for grammar and spell checking.
If you're still not confident, get a bit of help from a friend if you can or invest in a one-on-one session with a coach and get him/her to have a look at your resume/cover letter for you. If you're at uni, you might be able to get help from the student union and/or student services teams.
That's UNPOSSIBLE!
Are you by any chance Juno from that 2007 movie also titled Juno ?
You need to write a cover letter too, not just send a resume. Get some help from an English-speaking friend or pay a career coach to help you edit it. A career coach can help you with interview skills also (the next hurdle to pass).
You may also want to contact a contracting firm if you don't mind being a contractor, all the contractors I know don't have the best English (mainly Indian) but still have great public service contracting positions in IT. Even business analysts whose whole jobs are writing reports.
I do not ha e a cover letter , ill try now on , thanks :)
You have to write a different cover letter for each job you apply for that says why you want that job and what skills you have that would make you a good fit
Curious question…and by no means a reflection about you. But why do you think it is acceptable to not write a cover letter for job applications?
If it is his first job, probably nobody ever told him to
I never thought that a cover letter would be so important, all jobs that i had ,was able to get hired just with a resume.
@Junoo: were those jobs in a supermarket or Maccas? Professional jobs require a cover letter. Every single person that applies for a job is going to have a diploma or degree, so you have to tell them why you are better than the rest - resumé will tell them very little.
I may be old school but don't they teach that in schools anymore? A job application always meant writing a cover letter to go along with your CV. This is especially true for professional work
@Quantumcat:
Back home i never wrote a cover letter, just a resume was fine, so i was assuming was not that important, all jobs i got here was just with a resume, yes i did work in a supermarket for few months… lesson lernt.
@Junoo: God! Your spelling mistakes are terrible. Sure word has spell check but what about when you speak? The employer is going to catch you out. I would work on your underlying basic English first!
@Quantumcat: I know this is subjective but managers/recruiters told me that only my resume was read when I interviewed at big 4 auditing firms and financial services companies last year. I wrote a cover letter for every one anyway.
So I understand why many candidates are not submitting one. I still back what you say, if your resume doesn't make you stand out enough then at least the manager has the option of reading cover letter to assess you.
@Quantumcat:
I don't dispute that they help but I've never had any trouble getting professional jobs without cover letter so far and I'm talking about large multinational corporations too. Would I prepare one for my next job application? probably.
Yeah, I think not having a cover letter is the biggest issue right now.
You can Google what needs to go on there.
As others mentioned, you will need a different cover letter for each job you apply, and it needs to be tailor-made depending on the job description.
A cover letter dictates if the person reading it wants to continue reading your resume.
thanks grammar nazi
Dude, this attitude isn't going to help you get a job.
Grammar, spelling and punctuation in a candidate's resume says a lot. The employer only has that to judge you by at that early stage!
Sorry, why did this get downvoted? The OP admitted he didnt have this and said he'll take on board the advice and do it.
From your comments, it looks like you struggle with grammar and spelling. If you are fluent in another language, I'd recommend you write your resume in that language and hire a professional to translate it for you. Even if your IT skills are impeccable, communication is extremely important and these days businesses can afford to be picky.
Oh my ! Dat grammar tho
Are you applying for things you are skilled to do? Or aiming for the sky?
Most of them are entry level position
and do you have the skills for them?
Are you current skills or book based or had any real hands on work?
Im applying for help desk, yes i have experience.
@Junoo: frankly, you’re going to find it tough to gain employment in this area for a few reasons.
1. Many employers are reluctant to hire international students, largely due to a lack of understanding of the visa system, and student visa work rights (maximum 40 hours per fortnight, etc).
2. You’ll find that most IT positions list a degree in IT as a requirement or desirable; even entry level positions; with ‘significant’ work experience being the alternative.
3. There are a lot of IT professionals currently looking for work; as this industry has seen a shift from permanent IT staff to short term contracts. You’re likely competing with applicants that are overqualified.
4. The elephant in the room is your English proficiency. It’s actually pretty good, but far from native; and while a help desk position isn’t senior, effective communication is a fundamental part of the role.
Have you considered a menial, unrelated job for the interim? Or unpaid work for experience?
I assume after your Advanced Diploma you intend to complete a degree. If so, upon graduating you can apply for a post study work visa (subclass 485).
Regardless…best of luck!
@Junoo: I've been working in IT for 15 years. We typically get about 150 applicants for help desk positions. If you have less than two years experience you are going to struggle to get anyone to look at your resume. University degrees are good but experience is important I've seen candidates with masters but no experience apply for help desk and know they would require significant training. To improve your application your cover letter should address the select criteria. If you have less than two years experience look at short contract work doing help desk and pc roll out they are probably the best way to build experience these days. Good luck
There are currently about 500k international students in Australia. I assume a decent proportion of them have an IT background. You are also competing with citizens or residents without restrictions on their work and on paper may seem a better long term fit.
So basically you need to do something to stand out rather than be perceived as another international student here for a short time.
Options include doing everything possible to meet with people in the industry (network). Go to seminars, knock on doors, hand out your (professional) resume, let every person you meet know you are looking for work.
Do you have your own website? Sell yourself!
Do you have your own website? Sell yourself!
This…
Advertise freelance website dev, look on your university jobs site, mine had a CS/IT Facebook jobs page.
I'd also seriously consider another degree. Maybe a bachelor of business or information systems.
Have you had your resume checked by a native English speaker. Not trying to be rude here and I know you said it was spotless but sometimes having someone else look at it can help. If you put it in google drive and make it public replace your personal details with tags e.g <first name> <last name> etc some of us here can give some advise.
Basically, the competition you will be up against will be significantly higher than what you expect which means you have to find a way to stand out, make an impression (assuming that your skill set also matches). Sometimes it also means applying for lesser roles to get in the door so you can prove yourself. Jobs generally don't come easily unless you are lucky.
2 totally agree. I know friends have all HD in all units but struggle to find jobs due to student VISA the companies are hiring try to avoid long term potential dramas.
Are you Indian? You'd be surprised how many companies screen resumes based on names alone.
I am not indian, but i have japanese name, not sure if helps or not
hey mate, i had a japanese buddy during uni whom struggled landing a job after his graduation. after 4 months of struggle street, he applied for japanese company with fair bit of japanese people employed. he got the job
@supercheapguy: I mean, at the back-end sushi sushi probably has ERP, HR, CRM and accounting systems, not to mention the day-to-day maintenance of the in-store POS and HQ machines… so actually it's quite feasible to be working in IT at sushi sushi.
I actually think an IT job at MacDonalds might actually be quite exciting, especially with all the automation going on right now eliminating front-end jobs.
Im trying that, i got a list of japanese companies ,searching each on google to find out if there any based on sydney :)
@Junoo:
Dont do it, they all operate the same as if they are in Japan, you are better off finding work with a Australian company/workplace and enjoy your time here.
I would assume that McDonalds has most/all of that front-end stuff outsourced to one of the big service providers.
Im dont feel like im japanese i born there and have the citzeship but grew up in other country.
@Junoo:
Japanese tech companies….
I was always told they were 10 years ahead of the rest of the world
And if you look at Sony Xperia phones you can see how complacent Japanese hi tech companies have been playing second and thirds to likes of Huawei Samsung and Apple
More like 10 years behind
Spelling / Grammar / Phd / Indian born doesn't seems much when you looking for jobs in IT. But what matters the most is experience.
Location important too, sometimes you need to move where jobs are. Do some freelance work while looking for jobs. Good luck.
Spelling, grammar and basic sentence construction is very important for client facing roles. This is crucial on cover letters where anything out of place could make the reader decide to immediately move on to the next person.
Experience obviously does matter, but if selection members are put off by a poorly constructed cover letter then they might not even get to looking at applicant experience within the resume. (depending on the number of applicants)
Spelling, grammar and basic sentence construction is very important for client facing roles
Correct, that's why most businesses got business / media / communication teams to deal with clients.
At start I had, 99% rejection rate for job applications, due to no experience. If I apply now, 80% chance I get a interview.
You least likely to get hired, if you have perfect Spelling / Grammar AND a Phd BUT no experience (without adding a race card), sad but true.
I would say, most to least important;
1. experience
2. location
3. communication skills
And communication skills, conflict resolution which are intangible qualities employers look for
The costs and effort for a business to hire you and organise a visa will be considerable for them. It's not really the most realistic plan. I think you would be better off graduating and getting some experience in your home country as very few businesses will hire an overseas raw graduate. Perhaps you can build a folio/demo if you are super talented.
Get other people's thoughts on cost, but I am picturing an extra $30k cost sitting on top of your head, compared to a local. Coldly, you are probably best off trying to get citizenship first.
The #1 thing that will get you a job is good English speaking and comprehension skills. The reason a lot of candidates get screened out is because the second they do a telephone interview they cannot understand (comprehend) English properly and can't communicate English in a clear and effective manner. If you are weak in this area you should join English speaking classes to practice (meetup run groups), watch as much English speaking tv as possible and read English books.
Also, don't lie on your CV. Be honest about what you know and don't know. Many companies use practical or scenario based testing these days and it is SO obvious when you have lied once you get to this point! It's ridiculous how many people think they can pull the wool over the eyes of experienced hirers!
1) Apply to all entry level positions (level 1, service desk etc) you see on seek or your preferred job website.
2) Make sure your resume shows a history of being involved in IT related functions whether that just be a retail job in the computers section
3) Get a cert, put it on the resume and make sure you can back the knowledge up when they test in you in the interview
4) Don't be surprised if you don't get a call back if you do not have permanent residency or are an Australian citizen. Most companies will not want to invest in someone to fill a role if you can't stay in the country and most will not want to sponsor either.
5) Get your name to recruitment companies so they can place you in short term roles for companies that need a 3 month contract or even a couple of weeks filled. Have a look at a company named Verser who do this kind of work.
6) English speaking skills are a must for people on the phones to clients, the same with English writing skills for notes.
Hope the above helps, there are many ways to break into IT.
Ill have a look , thanks.
A few months ago, I had put out an ad for an entry level IT position looking to hire a graduate just out of Uni. I received over 400 applications for that ad. Out of those I interviewed 5. The 5 that made the cut, each had a cover letter that specifically targeted the ad - listed out what experience they had in each of the dot points that were mentioned and were clear on areas they did not have experience in. Without a cover letter, there was nothing in the resumes that stood out - the same, doing this degree from that university and here is my mark sheet. It told me nothing about the sort of person they might be. The cover letter provided a little bit on insight into the personality of the person.
The majority of the resumes were from international students which went straight into the bin. It didn't matter what experience they had, because we wanted someone who could potentially be with us for a long time. We are going to invest a large amount of time training up this person and did not want the headache of trying to get visas sorted, etc. At the entry level, there is very little difference between international or local students, so will go local.
In the end, the 5 candidates were 3 grads, 1 person still in Year 12 and 1 mother returning to work after 6 years away looking after kids. The best candidate was actually the Year 12 kid in terms of knowledge; but not enough maturity. We ended up hiring the mum as her experience trumped the other candidates. We paid her more than what we had budgeted; but felt we got a person who would be more loyal to the company and we could provide her with the flexibility in working hours that she needed as well. So, we felt it was a good fit.
Wow, that’s interesting. It sounds like a really tough market out there.
I retired from IT as part of the mass overseas outsourcing about a decade ago. I feel fortunate to have been part of what was a new, vibrant, developing industry, but glad to be out now.
Overseas Outsourcing is a real threat.
Just curious by what you mean by not enough maturity for the year 12 student. Do you mean he said or did things that were immature, or that you felt he did not have life experience by virtue of his actual stage in life?
A bit of all of the above. He was easily the most knowledgeable, but he had never done any work of any sort, so had no idea what work would be like. He lacked confidence as well. Not once in the interview did he look us in the eye. We wanted to make him an offer; but our position was a customer facing one and we felt he would not be taken seriously by our customers. We tried to create another back office position for him part-time; but we couldn't find the budget to make that happen.
He will go far; but he did need to get more experience.
Well reasoned! Were you able to provide him this feedback? Hoping he'll grow out of it soon!
Yes we did. We called him back in and spent quite some time talking about what we felt he needed to focus on in addition to his technical skills. Hopefully he took some of what we told him. In any case, he had a brilliant mind and will hopefully be able to make very good use of it.
This seems to be the general attitude towards international students. The 485 visa post graduate visa only gives 2 years working rights, which is a bane for international students. Australian workplaces only want PR or Citizens, not temp visa holders and the only option for these students is employment in places that has a extremely high turnover and exploited easily, such as hospitality, call centres, etc. hoping to break even on their degree costs.
Furthermore, many of them do not make the cut for Australian skilled workplaces or the English level - unable to get the required sufficient points for the 189 visa, many of them go home in failure.
From the employer point of view - it comes down to costs. There is very little difference between local and international graduates. If an employer is going to invest in training a person, they need to know that the person will stay for a while. There is no guarantee - a local hire may leave after a year; but he also may stay for 10 years. An international, you know will likely leave after their visa expires.
The visa process is also now expensive and cumbersome to go through. That is now used only for rare scenarios where we just can't find the skills in the country. Using it for entry-level positions is just not worth the extra cost and time.
Well usually international will actually stay longer with the company as they are link to the company that want to sponsor them, and cannot change unless they find another sponsor.
But yes totally agree with you for entry-level position, don't think this is worth the cost & time for visa.
It won't be easy as employers want people with experience, like most industries.
To help your chances try to do some industry certifications relevant to what you want to get into e.g Microsoft, Cisco, VMware etc.
Good luck.
You should try and target jobs that are close to your skill even in helpdesk. E.g. If the company is a Microsoft shop learn about active directory in detail. Know how to fix cross issues with it. Hey mcse certs and that will put you ahead of lots of other candidates who haven't done any and don't know how the tech actually works. It will also show aptitude and motivation.
Depending on what area u want to get into. If u know, try to start doing some entry level certifications (eg. MCP) to get that initial foot in the door. Sorry diploma in IT is a start but u probably need something more specialised if u know what area u want to start
Have you tried temp work? Companies are a lot less fussy if they are just back filling a role for a couple weeks. If you do well, temp roles can sometimes turn into permanent roles.
Go see a couple of the big recruitment agencies, eg: Hays. Get your name in their books.
Spruce up your CV as per many of the above recommendations so that it stands out. In my role as an IT Manager, hiring someone for Helpdesk is a lot of work. If I advertise directly, I will get 100-200 applications. So when I go through the CV's I do a quick cull dismissing any applicant that has a poor CV, Spelling issues, does not clearly state their right to work in Australia, Lives too far, doesn't tick the boxes for skills I am after (as per my job ad). Sincere enthusiasm in cover letter goes a long way. I want someone with energy that can hit the ground running. So, sell yourself!!
Interesting you put on "clearly state your right to work in Australia". Would you recommend doing this for any job? Its not something ive ever thought about putting on my own resume to be honest, but i am currently looking to jump into more of a cloud based role, so im currently upskilling with certifications getting ready to jump ship. This thread is proving very handy for polishing my CV up a bit.
What is your view on people with working holiday visas? (they are able to be here for 2 years and work for the same company in the same location for 6 months).
Do you have any tips to help them show they are willing to commit long term? thanks
You will find the job, trust me! I was hired in IT with my international student status. I would recommend calling schools in your local area and ask for e-Learning coordinator or IT Manager or IT technician and request them work experience as volunteer in return they will be your reference and you can show your next employer that you got experience in victoria. Where are you based in Victoria? Also, please do get working with children check before you go and visit any school.
Thanks , im in sydney.
I thought the IT industry was booming what happened? Is this purely because he is international or is there really a shortage of jobs in the IT industry?
It's more of a problem of too much supply rather than not enough demand. The industry has been saturated with workers.
It used to be and still can be in some regions… I remember in the past where companies were hiring people with 1 year IT diplomas due to lack of supply… but things have changed alot recently
wow I was really considering a double degree with business and information technology but really is there a IT overflow now???? Is that even possible everyones got technology everywhere all the time is it possible there is a shortage of jobs?
It depends on what areas of IT you want to get into. Many levels of IT are being outsourced. Business and IT is a good mix. It is harder to outsource jobs where you require a combination of IT and non IT skills. e.g You can tell a programmer explicitly what needs to happen when you click a button but the programmer won't know how the financial model works. It takes someone with special skills to know both worlds.
This is doubly true if you are in a client facing role. They still need someone with business sense to talk to stakeholders and understand the requirements before being able to figure out what needs to be done from an IT level.
Have you used spell check in Word?