New Type of Gumtree Scam?

TLDR if you give your bsb and account number, a fake cheque deposit can be made at an ATM and the money will temporarily clear, only for it to be reversed due to no funds.

I was selling an item on Gumtree and ended up stumbling onto an interesting scam I almost fell victim to.

Buyer was in Melbourne, had to get it quickly for Gf's birthday and sent me id. I sent my payment details and they transferred money via ATM deposit. He told me it was cash, it was actually a cheque. Here's where it gets interesting….

They sent an amount (1150) then demanded I send it immediately, as they do. Got very angry when I said I'll wait till the cheque clear. They made threats like " I'll call cop" lol.

Two days later, the money cleared? Strange, I was sure it was a scam. Cheques was supposed to be cleared/rejected around 4 days later. I hopped onto live chat with the bank and they said the money is in your account. Asked many times whether or can be taken out again and was told no. Spoke to phone cs and they echoed the same.

I received no correspondence from the buyer for a few days which was strange as they had just parted with a lil money.

I was going to send but on the day the cheque was meant to clear/bounce I checked my balance. Lo and behold, the amount was now debited.
Multiple calls to cs and keep getting told different things.

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Comments

  • +1

    Never accept cheques for payments for anything.

    The rules are so archaic that they can be dishonoured etc after the fact.

    If you see value for a cheque and your selling on Gumtree ask for it to be sent back via the bank. Don’t send it yourself (scam) the bank knows the drawer and the bank.

    • +2

      Bank cheques for car sales are still quite common though…

      • Bank cheques are also open to fraud. Reams of blank bank cheques have been stolen in the past, so scammers can make out a bank cheque which is worthless, or simply copy a legit bank cheque to re-use it.
        You need to call the issuing bank to confirm a specific bank cheque is legitimate for you as the recipient, then it is ok to accept. I have personally done this with NAB when someone bought a caravan of mine. At first NAB were not helpful, until I pointed out I could be holding a worthless piece of paper.

        If you don't believe me, listen to the banks eg -
        https://www.bendigobank.com.au/public/security/financial-cri…

        "Bank Cheques should not be considered as good as cash"

        and
        https://www.nab.com.au/personal/help-and-guidance/personal-b…

        Forged or unauthorised
        If the signature of an officer of NAB is forged or placed on a bank cheque without NAB's authority, NAB is not legally liable for the cheque concerned.

        Materially altered
        NAB will dishonour a bank cheque that has been fraudulently and materially altered. NAB will co-operate with any holder of a cheque, or person who is about to receive it, who may want to verify that the cheque is a valid cheque.

        Reported stolen or lost
        If NAB is told that a bank cheque is stolen or lost and is satisfied that this is the case, NAB will not pay the cheque if it is presented for payment by a person who has no right to it. NAB may provide a replacement cheque for a fee.

        Court order restraining payment
        NAB must observe an order of a court restraining NAB from paying a bank cheque which is presented for payment while the order is in force.

        Failure of consideration for the issue of a bank cheque
        Where NAB has not received payment for issuing a bank cheque to a customer (e.g. your cheque to NAB in payment for the bank cheque is dishonoured), NAB may refuse to pay the bank cheque only if the person presenting the bank cheque for payment: has not given value for it (e.g. the bank cheque is stolen); or has given value for it but at the time of doing so he or she knew NAB had not been paid for the cheque (e.g. that the cheque in favour of NAB had been dishonoured).

  • Hmm I also received an offer to buy my Google Pixel. He said he'd transfer money to my account details given to him already. For cousin's birthday…

    • -3

      Go through with it but do this. Once you see the money"cleared" quickly transfer everything out of that account and see what happens then.

      • +4

        It will get overdrawn, not worth the hassle.

      • +1

        So first he says wants it through Auspost, now he sends me this message below… Scam alert?

        Hello, I have just made the payment $1,050.00AUD.I belief paypal should have notify you to this effect and what needed to be done in regards to there new security policy to finalize the transfer .Please check your email address for there Confirmation mail from paypal and i also added $100 to cover all shipping cost via Australian Post EMS . I would like you to help me ship the item asap via Australian Post. I have received an email from Paypal that the funds have been deducted from my account and it will be credited into your account once you advise them of the shipment tracking number . Kindly confirm this and help me get the item shipped asap. Below is the shipping address:

        Name : Laura Vegas Leon
        Address : 167 Brazos Dr
        City : San Benito
        State : Texas
        Postal code : 78586
        Country : United State

        Please send through the Item through EMS

        • Hahaha check your email. I'm pretty sure this is the fake PayPal website scam.

        • @TarquinOliverNimrod:

          Just checked my Spam folder:

          Email name is [email protected] but the actual name is [email protected]

        • +3

          Send the bikies to that address.

        • +1

          @lilkid28: nearly got burned years ago on that. It looked so real in my email. Luckily I logged into PayPal and saw the jig

        • @lilkid28:

          I've noticed Apple Mail on iOS is horrendous when trying to check if an email is legit. They make it awkward to see the genuine email address and URLs in the suspect email. Ironically, this was when I was trying to check certain emails supposedly sent from Apple (they were a scam).

      • doesn't stop his account being debited the amount owing. It will just show up as a negative balance, and will go on his credit history.

  • +2

    I don't bother with Gumtree anymore. Too many scammers, and when someone turns up to pay the agreed price they try and haggle you down further. F$%k off. I'm sticking with eBay where the population of scumbags seems to be much lower.

    • +1

      eBay has to many fees. I know safer etc but I usually end up selling on gumtree for the price I want.

      • Just wait for zero insert and final value fees.

        • PayPal fees?

        • @TarquinOliverNimrod: yeah but would you rather higher scam rates or pay a small fee?

    • +1

      safer in ways, still not safe with how easily buyers can scam.

  • +6

    Look - I understand that the scammer is the heart of the problem here, but didn’t the bank just illegally remove over a thousand dollars from your account? If you talked to them and they say the money is yours - then surely it is. If they want to recover their $1000 error, they need to inform the police about the scammer - not just take money from your account. I might be naive, but I wasn’t aware that banks could just take money from your accounts without due process. I’m not saying you have a legal right to money deposited to your account in error - but that the bank must prove it’s case. For example, if the bank deposited the money and you sent the item, and then they removed the money, I don’t know why you can’t sue them for damages.

    • I'm seeing why the bank did this and probably change banks

    • +1

      cheques don't clear instantly, the money will appear in your account but it can't be transferred, withdrawn or used until it is cleared. So the money isn't really in your account, it is more a placeholder telling you should the money clear this will be in your account. Obviously it didn't clear.

      • The problem is this is what showed on my account initially
        Balance X+1150
        Available balance x-1150

        Days later
        Balance X+1150

        • My bad then, should have read your post more clearly, so it was taken after funds supposedly cleared. that then would at least give you an avenue for redress from the bank if you had sent the item. lucky for you you hadn't. Smart catch seeing it was a cheque deposit and realising this was a huge alarm bell.

  • gave up reading all the responses, but..

    There is a thing called 'balance' and 'available balance', i.e. the money is showing in your account, but it is not 'cleared' for use.
    That is why I think the money 'disappeared' as it did not 'clear' therefore your account balance reverted back to 'available balance'.

    • Yep that's what's im talking about. When he sent the money my available balance was different to balance. However two days later my balance showed the full amount, as in available balance was same amount.

      • +2

        Well - at that stage I can't see how the bank can take back the money. It is in your control at that point.

        • +1

          It sounds like the scammer copied a legitimate cheque from some random let call him "Mr X", and using Photoshop made it out to the OP (this probably involved changing the "cheque number" to one that had not been presented, otherwise it would have bounced straight away). This resulted in a legitimate transaction where "Mr X" account was debited and OP credited. It was only when "Mr X" disputed the transaction that the cheque deposited in the ATM from the scammer was found to be fraudulent, and money returned. The OP's bank would have something in their Cheque T & C where they can clawback fraudulent transactions.

          Moral to the story, cheques are a pathetic form of IOU and only used these days for person to person transactions between family members, or by grannies, or for fraud. My chequebook has sat unused in my draw for at least a few years, I think I last used it for school photos because they had CC fees, and even the school photos people don't accept cheques now so we just use cash.

  • +8

    nice find thanks for giving us all the heads up op

  • So you knew it was a cheque that he deposited?
    Isn't this the same error as accepting a paper cheque?

    • +1

      Yes after speaking with bank. Buyer said cash deposit…

      • Ah ok.
        Is there any chance you can tell us if in your online banking statement that is says it's a cheque?

        I'd be interesting to know so we can look out for it.

        Thanks

        • +1

          It says now return item person name
          Before while it was processing it said something like atm deposit Burke St

        • cheers. Will look out for this next time I get a deposit.

  • +2

    something isn't right about this post.

    Bank cannot remove money once it's in your account.

    I have friends whom are bank tellers, and they've told me multiple stories of when someone written an incorrect BSB or ACC number to transfer money. Theres nothing they can do to get it back, apart from request it and hopefully the good samaritan sends the money back.

    • Agreed with this.
      If it's cleared and not pending. This is something that I have not seen before.

    • That's the thing. I was under the assumption that the bank can only request this. I was never asked.

    • This situation is actually quite different from transferring money FROM your account, of course your bank can't retrieve the money back, its gone to another bank. In the case of the OP it is money being transferred INTO their account, and the OP's bank can take money out of the OP's account in many circumstances, eg the 5 listed here -

      https://www.nab.com.au/personal/help-and-guidance/personal-b…

    • -3

      I agree there's something OP's not telling us. Maybe plot twist: The buyer wasn't actually a scammer but a genuine person in a hurry. OP's bank received a claim from the buyer that OP is the scammer and so the bank recouped the transaction back.

      • LOL? Are you judging by OP's profile pic?

      • +5

        If they were genuine and wanted it in a hurry, the last thing they'd do is pay by cheque given how long it takes to clear. They could've easily Waleed into a branch and transferred money instantly.

        • -2

          They could've easily Waleed into a branch and transferred money instantly.

          So OP has contact in their phone called Waleed. Hmmm

        • +1

          @havok44: inb4 the project developing story
          Try typing walked on your phone

  • +1

    When do you testify in the Royal Commission?

  • Freaking scarry ey! Thank for sharing

  • -2

    I guess this is where cryptocurrency will benefit. Tranfer into your account & take the goods all on the spot

    • +1

      unless of course the scammer is the seller, in that case cryptocurrency is the worst thing on the planet. or you are using the broken bitcoin system combined with the lightning network which seems to be the best of all worlds for scammers.

  • -3

    i am a bank. ask me anything

    except about royal commish

    then i know nothing

  • THIS IS WHY CASH ONLY IS KING

  • +1

    Op, thanks a lot for sharing your experience.

  • Same old same old. Gumtree bends another over, when will they learn

    • Still standing straight!!!!!

  • Did you give their name and address to the police? chances are they have a habbit of doing this

    • Probably fake so don't think it'll go anywhere

      • So they were getting it delivered to a fake address? how does that work?

        • Po Box. Not sure if you can use fake name

  • -2

    Bitcoin! The transfers are non reversible and are recorded on the public ledger so the record can't be modified

  • Sad part is this person's probably already scammed multiple I'd say. Would've gotten me since the funds had cleared and all.

    Authorities should start sending GPS tracker to the PO Boxes :P

    • I was thinking of baiting the guy but don't think it's worth it

  • I just scammed by something similar (the "buyer" has the item), however it was $1300 and it had become available (I thought it was cash) and then withdrew after the bank discovered the cheque was stolen.

    I've lodged it with the Vic police who are investigating. ANZ has given me nothing.

    I have the guy on my CCTV footage who came and picked up the item and his mobile number so I have some evidence for VicPol but not much.

    Tarquin - Is there any details you have about this guy that you dealt with? Could be the same person (a long shot I know).

    • What's their mobile number? Maybe it's the same?

      • Yep, it's 0450 292 544

        • sorry for no response. you probably won't see this but 0422074691

  • Hi guys, I know this is an old articles, but I have just experienced this on Saturday myself. I found it weird that i received a deposit before they arrived. It was a $1100 transaction so I wouldn't have done that myself. I was grateful that I thought of sending a screenshot of the deposit transaction to my friend and he happened to read my message straight away before the person turns up. He alerted me to this article and I quickly walked away and called my bank straight away. Not that they were helpful but they did say it looks like a cheque deposit was made at the branch (which was strange as the person was messaging me telling me they are running late due to traffic and there were not many branches are open during weekend). I messaged the person on Gumtree asking why they made a cheque deposit before seeing the product and especially we agreed to do OSKO transfer on the spot so it's instant). They denied it was a cheque and insisted it was their sister who deposited cash into my account. I noticed the available balance is $0 so I stood by and said they can wait for 4 days for it to clear and they can pick up the item then. I got abused verbally and said they will report me to the police. I said I would be happy to meet there and asked them to pick the station. Went there and obviously no one turns up. Tried to report to the bank and was told not to share my bank details to random people next time :(

    • good save from the friend! silly bank reps 🤦‍♀️

  • Say it with me: "Always wait for cleared payment"

    This has been the advice for many many years

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