Hi all,
Currently in negotiations for a position.
Just seeing if anyone has any expertise re if the probation period is negotiable? In SA if that makes a difference.
I've heard that 6 months is standard, but not sure if actually required.
Any advice appreciated!
Feel better about yourself now?
Yup. Thanks for the concern
Unlikely. Probation period exists to protect the business by ensuring that you are a suitable candidate. You may look perfect on paper but you could be lying about your experience or you just can't work well with people etc. If you don't have anything to hide and you reckon that you have adequate interpersonal skills, then there's no reason to be put off by the probation period.
Thanks, yeah I get that, it's more in terms of getting finance for new property.
Do you have to declare your probation status?
Anecdotally online suggests most banks will ask. Although with the "right" banker it could be a non-issue.
Payslip will show your YTD pay & bank can work out you just started
Not sure if banks are more stringent now but when I applied for a new home loan, I only started a new job for 2 and a half months. Probation was never asked and all that was required was 2 pay slips (fortunately I had 2 over the 2 months). This may only be part of it but as long as you can show them you got other assets and good credit history that reduces the risk of you defaulting, then they are not going to turn away a customer unless it is high risk.
If you try to negotiate the probation period down you'll probably look like you know you're going to screw up so want to get permanency as soon as possible. Maybe they would even revoke your offer of employment and go with someone else?
Thanks yeah good point, it's not that I mind about the probation at all, I'm sure will be a non-issue, it's just what standard banks will ask if apply for new property.
Banks look at 3 or 6 months and whether (full time, part time, casual) not probationary status of contract. Just go and apply and once you have pre approval its as good as done. After that they only give full approval based on the property you like i.e. property valuation.
I wouldn't.
Considering that you are newbie, I would do whatever it takes for them to keep me employed (Unless they've head-hunted you due to a unique expertise you have/minimal skill set and they desperately need)
Try not to rock the boat, unless you have other offers :-)
Cheers
Thanks, actually both of these are true in this instance. I don't want to get off on the wrong foot either though for sure. Maybe will just go with whatever they ask and hope can work something out when it comes to financing a new property.
In my view, workers have no rights like they used to.
The boss can sack you anytime, and even for no plausible reason, place you on a PIP to make sure that they have ticked boxes down their end to get rid of you.
Then you go through mediation and you end up with a small payout and no job.
I have seen this happen.
I know this sounds very negative however my point is to work hard and ensure your probation lapses.. but then there are no guarantees proceeding it.
Good luck
Cheers
Thanks for your advice :-)
Even without being on probation the bank might want to see you working in the same job for 6+ months anyway, so getting a lower probation time might not get you what you need
Thanks, won't bring it up in the negotiation then.
I'll just wait for the 6 months/consider a tier two lender if needed, and then look at finance options after.
I had an employee ask for probation to be reduced because he was applying for a home loan. We reduced it from 6 to 3 months for him. It shouldn't hurt to ask, but make it clear why you want it.
Thanks, good to know, will wrap in that context. I'll ask once have some rapport with them I think.
I second this. A question like that needs good context, otherwise it might be taken the wrong way and earn you suspicion early in your employment.
The law (Fair Work Act) provides 6 months or 12 months if it's a small business (less than 15 employees). This gives a company time to see if you work out. The only difference between this period and any other period of employment is that you can't apply for unfair dismissal through the Fair Work Commission if you are fired and believe the dismissal was unfair, unjust or unreasonable.
A company still needs to provide you notice (usually 1 week in the 1st year) if they fire you, unless it's serious misconduct. Also, you are always protected from unlawful dismissal, such as being fired because you are pregnant.
There are no other probation periods recognised in the Fair Work Act though companies often put a lot of crap in contracts that may or may not apply - see a lawyer for this. Otherwise the probation period for unfair dismissal can't be negotiated- it's the law.
The probationary periods you have quoted are maximums. If the employer wants to give you a two week probationary period then they can do.
Exactly, they can give any probationary period they want as they have no mean nothing; it doesn't change the law.
If the OP needs some help with his mortgage, best chance would be to get a letter from his employer. Otherwise it's likely to go on time spent with their current employer and recent job history.
I've just finished my 3-month probation :-)
I understand Fairwork can say 6-months but in my industry 3-month is the usual. During probation it's 1 week notice but then it's 4 weeks after that.
Again- probation is a term thrown around by employers as part of an internal policy. The law is the law when it comes to unfair dismissal. You could have passed your '3 month probation' and be fired a month later because the company decided you weren't that great afterall. You would not be eligible to go for unfair dismissal.
Fairwork cannot intervene in what probation period is set. It is entirely up the the employer, (within reason obviously).
A person on probation should be treated exactly the same [financially and entitlements] than a non-probation worker.
Taking on a mortgage immediately on starting work is a risk and you should evaluate that risk anyway, regardless of whether you are in a probationary period. You may decide it is not for you.
Where i work the probation is very fixed by legislation to six months. However if things are not working out you need to tell the person what the issues are and how to rectify them at 2 months. Then at five months it is fixed or not. If not then there is a final appeal and then they stay or go.
Not all places have probation periods, have they stated that they have one?
I don't believe that probation periods are what affects whether or not you can get a loan - I believe its length of employment.
I would highly suggest going to a broker. I got a loan with 3 months employment (wasn't the best rate. Wasn't the worst rate…) - i then refinanced a year later.
Yes, it is sometimes negotiable but whether you get it depends on how keen the employer is on employing you.
If you are working for someone else and they "headhunted" you, the probation period and they know probation could be an obstacle, then there could be no probation. Conversely, if you applied for a job and there were many other applicants you are in a weak negotiating position. You can only ask, but explain why. Factors the new employer will consider include stability of past employment, what your referees say, your skill level and education and ultimately how keen are they to recruit you.
Hardlyworkin' above is spot on,
Irrespective of what is written in your employment contract you cannot access the Fairwork Commission for unfair dismissal if employed less than 6 months.
The employer can write 1 week or no probation into your contract, dismiss you without cause in 4 months and you can do anything you like except access the Fairwork Commission.
Neither employers nor employees can overwrite employment law.
To the OP, the banks will know this, if it causes you an issue, I agree with rambutann "I would highly suggest going to a broker".
You can always ask if you are leaving another full time job and mention that you require some committment from them. But may come across as lack of confidence in yourself.
6 months is totally unecessary.
If they cant make up their mind after 3 months there is something wrong.
Hence I would suggest that 3 months is more than sufficient
6 months is standard and has been written into every contract of roles I've recruited for.
It's there to protect the employer, it's not them making their mind up or a trust issue, its purely a risk thing, they're not singling you out and every other employee would've had this in their contract.
They want you to get past the 6 months and wouldn't be searching for reasons not to, it costs money to onboard and offboard employees so doing it right the first time is in their best interest.
I thought if you were staying in the same industry, it didn't matter how long you had been in the new job? Just as long as you had a good career history behind you. I don't have a lot of knowledge around this and am only speaking from my experience (although i did go through a broker)
Has the bank said no solely because of this?
I work in SA. I got my probation period removed after working there 3 months as I was applying for a home loan. This was govt so it can be done. If you prove yourself then there is no need for it and your boss will know that, just be honest why.
I wouldn't ask for it to be negotiated upfront, but if I asked for it after 3 months and my boss was reluctant I'd certainly be worrying I'm not doing my job.
Thanks, good advice.
[Deactivated] on 21/04/2018 - 15:54 Comment score below threshold.