I've been observing for quite some time now when I fill up my car, most people rather not use E10 for their car. (of course excluding diesel engine)
My anecdotal evidence suggests about 50-60% of people use premium 95, about 20-30% use premium 98. About 10-20% is E10. With the rest being spread with other fuel types.
I personally owned CR-V 2003 and use premium 95.
Do you use E10 with your car? Why/why not?
Turbo rotary #brapbrap
Fellow JDMers spotted!
My car is capable of utilising e10. the difference for me locally is around 3~6 cents so it works out for me. Also, it says 95 RON (I think others are 94). I've not encountered any negative issues but have made an interesting observation. We have 2 cars in the family which were purchased around the same time. One of the cars does not run ethanol whilst mine does. As part of a service both cars had pumps replaced due to age and in comparison, my tank was cleaner.
E10 bad for engine in the long term don't use it. Even if the car is capable I won't use it
Source??
Been running E10 in my cars for about 15 years. Never had an issue. All of our work vehicles use E10.
Also not as fuel efficient. As in I do not get as much KMs from E10. Quality is inferior.
Lol… it’s not a quality issue, it’s an energy density issue.
To do some really crude maths to show just how wrong you are about mileage.
Let’s say, 1lt of petrol has 100,000 watts of potential energy and ethanol has NONE, 0, zip, nada. At best you would lose 10% of the amount of mileage using E10. So, on this basis, if you get 8km/lt on straight fuel, you would get 7.2km/lt from E10.
BUT! It doesn’t work like that, because ethanol does have energy potential. Ethanol is about 75% the energy density of petrol. So, it’s 25% of its 10%. So, if petrol is 100,000 Watts/lt, then E10 would be about 97,500.
So, if your 1lt of petrol would get you 8km, 1lt of E10 would get you about 7.8km. So in a 60lt tank of fuel, that’s maybe a 10 to 12 km difference… under theoretical, ideal and exact conditions.
But like I said, this is crude maths rounded up and down for simplicity. But I maintain, that I can get more km out of a tank by simply modifying how much I use the fuel dump tap under my right foot… This has way more effect on how many km you get from a tank then a 10% ethanol mix would cause. Each fuel tank I fill up, I track and always use E10. In any given tank, I can go from 400 or up to 500km+ depending on where I drive, how much traffic there is or how many times I grind that accelerator…
But you know, don’t let facts hold you back. ;)
Get GF to push car. Cost:- 1 G&T
98 but currently doing a flex tune for E85.
If I could readily get E85 where I live, I would move to it.
Flex tune ftw! Fuel smells awesome when pumping and coming out the exhaust, increased power is a win too. Unfortunately the E85 servos are a little awkwardly placed for me, so I find myself with about 50/50 chance between pumping a full tank of E85 or full tank of 98. The sensor does its magic. =]
What's your car? Me: 2006 WRX.
Exactly the same for me, too risky to run solely on e85 and not too keen on carting Jerry cans everywhere.
2001 Spec R s15 here
(E85)Fuel smells awesome…
"I love the smell of methanol in the morning…"
I raced speedway for years and the biggest thing I miss about it is the smell of Sprint Cars burning methanol. Wish I could get candles of that smell. Burning methanol just smells of pure horsepower… E85 smells so close.
And if I could get E85 in my area, I would buy something that would be worthy of it…
Try VP RACING M2 UPPER CYLINDER LUBE CANDY SCENT METHANOL & ETHANOL ADDITIVE E85
I add quarter of bottle every time I fill up and my car really smells like candy :D
I'm running a 2007 Subaru Liberty GT tuned for E85 - gotta love the corn juice in a turbo car!
I would use e10, however my 1990's Ford is a Mazda built by Kia at the time when they were using plastics in the fuel line that are degraded by ethanol, so it would be a very very bad idea.
For a full list:
https://www.fcai.com.au/environment/can-my-vehicle-operate-o…
For a quick check:
https://e10ok.initiatives.qld.gov.au/results/check-my-model-…
Cheers for the links. Keep them for later reference.
e10ok check link only goes back to year 2000. :(
I use E10, its cheaper and I get better fuel economy. Driving a 2006 Aurion.
I get 8.5L/100km on the Highway, vs 8.9L/100km using 91. Tested multiple tanks of both.
E10 is a scam!
Source??
Happy to know why, but your comment is a bit vague and sounds more like it is based on Internet opinion based bullshit.
Let us know why it's a scam…
Cheaper fuel with higher ron is a scam, huh?
Our Engine and car is European and will not go on anything but 95 or 98.
We n fact, our last dealer service on tbd newer one recommended 98 only in future.
Get them to give you a valid technical reason. I bet they can't.
RON 95 E10 is the go.
Amazing how many OzBargain members use the more expensive 95/98 because 'they want to'.
Considering it's a bargain forum.
Poll is a fail.
Just shows that the fuel company marketing departments are doing what they are paid to do. :D
You realise that a lot of cars (especially European ones) can’t take u91, right?
You do realise that E10 is about 94~95RON, So it is more than capable of being used in a plethora of European cars?
And my comment was in reference to
"use 95/98 because 'they want to'"
Not because "they have too."
Try and keep up.
PS: thanks for the neg ;)
91, Camry 2013.
98, Civic 2016.
I have an older Merc. 1971.
It used to not run right with unleaded and lead replacement. The mechanic suggested I use the premium fuel. Since it's been fantastic.
Much the same with most Mercs
I use unleaded premium because I have older car and premium 95/98 isn't worth it.
The contradiction! unleaded premium usually refers to unleaded 95/98
Standard or regular Unleaded is 91
Premium Unleaded is 95
Shell V-Power, BP Ultimate, Mobil Supreme+ are all 98
No contradiction here
So let me rephrase that according to your definition.
I use premium unleaded because i have an older car and premium unleaded isn't worth it.
that option was changed since i posted it anyway
I think thats a contradiction for sure!
Basically if your car is reasonably new and/or accepts E10, then you have a choice to make.
If the price of E10 is more than 5% cheaper than the price of the next fuel, you're probably going to want to use the next one up (generally 95).
If your vehicle manual recommends you use 98 for whatever reason, there's a good chance using 98 will actually increase your engines horsepower and could lead to further fuel efficiency, but this is not the case for all cars.
Personally I use 98 because I don't drive a great deal, and my car does adjust to derive more power from it.
I think you might be a little confused my friend
There may be only 3% of cars on the road that must use 98.
Maybe 10-15% that are designed to run on 95
Probably 80%-90% are designed to run on Standard unleaded 91
ZERO cars are "recommended" toi run on E10 and there is absolutely no saving to be made anyway.
Anyone using a better fuel than what is recommended by the manufacturer has been taken for a long ride by the fuel marketers. Its totally unecessary.
Of course If your vehicle manual recommends you use 98 then thats exactly what you use!
It wont and cannot increase your engines horsepower and or lead to further fuel efficiency. But if you use anything less you will damage your engine!
Yeah okay mate.
My car had a sticker on the fuel cap that says "use E10", the manual recommends 98, but also says the car can run just fine on E10, 91, 95, 98, etc.
The increases in HP are generally negligible, and the increases in economy are unlikely to offset the increase in the fuel cost.
The cars ECU adjusts when it detects a reduced knock (from the higher octane fuel), varying how much air it mixes into the fuel for ignition, which does affect efficiency. (Most notably, the range of your tank.)
I use 98 from Majura Park Canberra. I can get that for less than the cost of 95 at my local. Well any other servo in the region plus its on my way home from work, so that makes sense to me.
Using any premium fuel really depends on the price.
You may get 98 cheaper than 95 but is it less than 10% more than the 91 price?
Generally you may get 5% - 10% better fuel consumption.
But usually the price for premium is over 10% more than 91 unleaded which outweighs any fuel saving.
yes true. its just over 13% if you go to Majura and compare the 91 and 98.
example today via app - at Majura 98 is 145.7,for 95 its 139.7, for 91 its 128.7 and no E10..
My local 98 is 153.9, then for 95 its 146.9 and E10 is 132.9 - strangely they do not have 91 at my local
although another servo near'ish by for 91 is 145.9, that's more than 98 at Majura!
if I didn't dog leg past Majura for the 98 then I would be paying 144.9 and up for 91 elsewhere
realise if I used 91 at Majura then I would save 17c/l over 98 = $8.50 for a 50l fill - hmm, haven't looked at that variance..
so probably averaged out at $6 per week for $312 saving per annum..
reason for the cheap fuel at Majura is that the servo competes with the local Costco, which I am not a member of.
My new Passat Alltrack is diesel but when I fill up the older car I usually go 95. 98 when it's a good price. I don't trust e10 and usually fill up at BP these days (local supermarket discount) so I get their ultimate stuff.
Put e10 in my first bike once when feeling up in a shitty back country place once. 91, or 95 e10. Seemed more premium….
Bike had a lot of trouble running for a while, constantly stalled.
In modern cars, I found milage horrible with e10
Correct!
My car hasn't seen anything but 98. It doesn't know what peasant fuel is like.
The gas companies love you 😍
Then why haven't they called me back? :(
Because it’s an abusive relationship. They know you’re addicted, so they just leave you on “…read”
Plot twist: Munki drives a 2005 Camry and a tank of fuel costs more than the car, essentially making it an economic write off every time they fill up on 98… :D
@pegaxs: 2005 Camry won't be that cheap. My friend sold a 2004 Corolla base model Automatic which he bought new for $20K drive away for 5.5K with 210K Kms on the ODO. If that's not an excellent resale value I don't know what is.
Most people with old cars put 98. It makes worn shitboxes drive better. It doesn't make them a write-off.
It’s comedy. I made an off the cuff, throw away remark about how expensive 98RON fuel is and how cheap a used Camry is. Bound to go over some people’s heads…
It makes worn shitboxes drive better.
Lol… no it doesn’t, but thanks for playing. ;)
95 because car is turboed
You'd be better going to 98 in a turbo car, even if the service manual says you can use 95.
Tried both. Same mileage :-/ no point paying for 98
Yes, high performance cars need higher octane fuel
My car is officially capable but my trusted mechanic told me to avoid E10 because he can see how "sticky" E10 is when servicing.
Furthermore, many articles do say that E10 is not cheaper than unleaded due to poorer mileage.
As a mechanic, I’m calling your mechanic a bullshit artist/moron. Take your pick.
InB4: But but but, it’s made out of sugar cane… and sugar is sticky…
Its NOT made from sugar cane.
Please dont make calls about something you know nothing about.
Knowing about cars does NOT make you an expert on fuels
I know how ethanol is made. I know what it is made of. I know how it is produced and the waste products and what that’s also used for…
As a mechanic, whenever I mention/get asked about E10 and/or ethanol, most people think it’s made from sugar and/or sugar cane.
My comment was aimed at the inevitable goompties that make a comment that ethanol is sticky in engines because it’s made out of sugar cane…
PS: while ethanol is usually not produced from sugar cane directly, it can be produced from molasses… And guess what molasses is predominantly made from? ;) Over 3/4's of Australia's production of ethanol comes from things like wheat, sorghum and rice. Guess where that last 1/4 comes from?
@pegaxs: The largest manufacturer of ethanol is Manildra based in Nowra.
From Manildra's web site:
Manildra Group makes its ethanol from waste as part of an integrated manufacturing process at our Nowra plant. As part of this process flour is separated into gluten (protein) and starch….Starch is used by a number of businesses within the confectionary, beverage and paper industries.
The residual starch from this process is fermented and converted to Ethanol, which is simply alcohol.
Sorry pegaxs - Wrong again!
See here: http://e10thegoodfuel.com.au/how-we-make-e10/index.html
You don’t read very much, do you?
Yes, Manildra uses waste starch to produce ethanol, well done. I won’t deny it.
Google “Sarina Distilleries” and “Wilmar BioEthanol”
Wilmar BioEthanol produces its ethanol (ethyl alcohol) by fermenting molasses, a by-product of sugar production. Wilmar BioEthanol’s Sarina Distillery in Queensland produces 60 million litres of ethanol per year.
Sixty MILLION litres… just let that sink in… from MOLASSES…
To cut a long story short, they are a sugar refinery operation. From sugar refining comes molasses. From this molasses, Sarina Distilleries makes ethanol.
Sorry pegaxs -
Wrong again!
FTFY
You know what else contains a lot of sugar? Humble pie…
Not just your mechanic but every mechanic in the country.
And yes, it has been proven that you use 5% more fuel with e10 but maybe more.
Hence no saving whatsover eith E10 and your maintenance costs go through the roof!
I was skeptical about E10, and after testing it for myself could not see an appreciable difference in consumption for any different fuel. Driving variations made the biggest difference.
There are various claims here ‘proving’ no difference, 2-3%, 5% and 10% all ‘backed by data’. Some must be wrong.
That’s just my findings on my car, but it was over several years of fuel consumption records.
I did the same with my 1998 Mitsubishi Lancer. Whilst I did not notice much increase in fuel consumption my car did develop problems directly related to the use of E10. Hence E10 cost me much more due to the higher maintenance and repair costs involved.
Our 1999 Nissan Pulsar suffered unusal engine problems whilst it was driven on E10.
Hence 2 out of 2 cars developed issues whilst being run on E10…
Co-incidence? I think not as mechanics have seen this many times with cars using E10.
I dont use E10 on a regular basis any more.
@Amayzingone: hmmm. While I don’t know the model, the Nissan pulsar 1999 appears to not be compatible with e10. The lancer appears to be compatible.
Thanks for clarifying your experience though.
If E10 was such a problem (for cars that are compatible) not just anecdotal, then surely it wouldn’t be available. The market would have squashed it
My Xtrail can accept E10 but I find that it runs much nicer on ULP91 even compared to ULP95. It is probably tuned for 91.
Thats correct!
Unleaded 91 unless it is a hire car and it need to fill it up prior to returning it then i fill up with the Cheap and nasty E10 or even E15, i'd even go E20 if it existed in my area
MM good post I have 3 near n fars, 1 bitsrmissen, 1 koon car, and the now VW Arteon,
Bitrmissen runs on 91ron with a tank full of 98 ron now n then to clean injectors.
For the XR 6 ST I use 95 ron with a tank full of 98ron to clean the injectors
and the Vee Dub well that has to use the 98 ron coz it has to.
Hows the real world fuel consumption on the Artheon?
We should boycott E10. Is is a monopoly for a Queensland company. Australia could get cheaper E10 if we import from NZ. But all imports are banned
There are three ethanol factories in Australia. One in NSW and two in Qld. It’s hardly a monopoly. Although, the Manildra Plant in NSW produces about 2/3rds of the ethanol produced in Australia. I can’t find any info that they are all owned by the same company in Qld.
Currently, the three ethanol plants in Australia cover 100% of our ethanol needs. There is no reason to import ethanol fuels. On the flip side, we currently import almost 100% of our petrol.
Imports of ethanol are not banned, there is just no requirement to import something we produce here in sufficient quantities. But yes, we should bring in more cheap ethanol just so it kills off more Australian jobs. Close the plants, kill the supply chain and send more money offshore… all so you can get slightly cheaper E10 that you don’t buy anyway…
It’s mandated in Queensland and NSW. The taxpayers shouldn’t be surporting wasteful farming practices.
wasteful farming practices.
Lol. Your comment makes no sense. But anyhoo, here's why… :D
Petrol manufacture is a net energy loss process. ie: it takes MORE energy to MAKE petrol than what it can supply. (ie: it takes 100 energies to make 60 energies of petrol.)
Ethanol is the opposite. It takes far LESS energy to produce ethanol than what it makes. (ie: it takes 60 energies to make 100 ethanol energies) The by-product of ethanol is food for livestock, fertilizer and other "farming related" things. Quite often, ethanol is made from by-products of other refinements (molasses from sugar refining), or from waste products (ie: potato starch) or specially grown crops (ie: wheat, sorghum or rice)
What's the by-product of producing petroleum? Can cows and sheep eat it? Can it be used to be recycled back into farming? Can you re-grow petrol plants??
It’s mandated in Queensland and NSW.
It is legislated that a certain percentage of all fuel sold "must" contain ethanol. This is not because some minister owns shares in a ethanol plant, or some monopoly cartel owns all the ethanol production sites in Australia, it is to lower our consumption/reliance on fossil fuels. Ethanol is renewable, oil is NOT.
drops mic
@pegaxs: Yeah, let's support an industry that can't sell their crop for a profit elsewhere and keep them alive this way. That's the only reason it's there. It's nothing to do with the environment. Sheesh.
it is to lower our consumption/reliance on fossil fuels. Ethanol is renewable, oil is NOT.
You need to fill up more when ethanol is added. So you're effectively using more of both.
drops mic
Farmers will do anything for attention…
Your statment about petrol is false.
It takes less energy to produce 1 unit of petrol than the contained energy of 1 unit of petrol.
Wrong. Go back to google and try again.
The making of petrol or diesel has about a 0.75 ~ 0.80 energy yield. ie: it takes 100 “units” of energy to produce 80 “units” of petrol energy. (The laws of thermodynamics makes it so…)
Ethanol has a 1.20 to 1.40 energy yield. ie: 100 in, 120 out…
Making ethanol is quite easy. You can make it at home.
Making petrol is hard. You can’t do that at home…
It’s all out there. Easy to find. If I can find it, so can you…
I dont need to because I`m not stupid. It would not be possible to extract oil economically if the energy input was larger than the yeild. Get it? How are you going to run the machinery required to get the end product if you are using more end product than you are creating?
Maybe run the rigs trucks and refineries on ethanol?
Not saying you are stupid, just wrong.
If you won’t even google it, there is no point discussing it with have already dug your heels in, so I’m not going to waste my time explaining how you are wrong if you are not even willing to be open to dialogue.
Their is no need to google it. Its the equivelent of a hunter gatherer requiring 2kg of meat to sustain him for his expedition when hes going to come back with 1.5kg.
Doesn`t make sense.
Maybe you should let Woodside know they have been burning money all these years.
“ Let’s do some quick calculations to demonstrate this. A barrel of crude oil contains 5.8 million BTUs (2) of material that will ultimately be turned into gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, etc. It is well-documented that the average energy return on energy invested (EROEI) for crude oil production is around 10/1 (3). Therefore, we will use up about 580,000 BTUs from our barrel getting it out of the ground. The other major input occurs during the refining process, and it also takes roughly 10% of the contained BTUs in the barrel of oil. The total energy input into the process is 1.16 million BTUs, and the energy output was 5.8 million BTUs. The EROEI is then 5.8 million/1.16 million, or 5/1.”
http://www.energytrendsinsider.com/2006/04/08/energy-balance…
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421513003856
This paper shows the EROI of oil to be about 20 to 1 for the world.
It has ethanol at about 5 to 1.
Some sources of oil production are getting very inefficient. E.g Canadian tar sands at around 2 to 1.
But you wont see any commercial production with EROI`s below 1 unless you read papers published by the Department of Agriculture (p.s. they are involved with growing sugar cane)
Agree 100% with you on this one.
Pity you didnt dig down further to see that ethanol is a by-product of starch which is a by-product of flour. NOT SUGAR OR MOLASSIS
You really are a drongo…
Wilmar BioEthanol produces its ethanol (ethyl alcohol) by fermenting molasses, a by-product of sugar production. Wilmar BioEthanol’s Sarina Distillery in Queensland produces 60 million litres of ethanol per year.
Google it. Sarina distillery or Wilmar BioEthanol…
I wouldn't set fire to my worst enemy using that E10 junk.
ARE YOU DUMB?
E10 is the worst type of petrol
Source?
Interested to know why.
I have tried e10 and then I had to go to the repair shop and empty my gas tank out because e10 recked my engine and my car would stop every 10-20 second
What vehicle?
Riiiiiight… ;) cause it did….
I am no mechanic, and this is from NSW gov's website: https://www.e10fuelforthought.nsw.gov.au/facts
The ethanol in E10 will not dirty or damage the fuel injection system in your car if your car manufacturer has identified it as suitable to run on E10 petrol. However, ethanol is a solvent and as it runs through the fuel tank and fuel lines, it may loosen any scale or build up that is already there.
Food for thought, do you blame E10 or the crap that is already in your fuel lines?
E85 because fast.
Other - I use 95RON because i have to. 2006 Honda Accord Euro
Me too even same year but I use 98. Apparently someone advised me it could take E10 but I never followed up.
My manual says I need 95+, but I can use e10. I get the e10 at United because it saves at least 10c/l compared to getting 95 without ethanol at other places.
need bov #suuutttkapishhhhh