RTBU (Rail, Tram & Bus Union) Strike 29th Jan, What Say You?

[Deactivated] on 18/01/2018 - 10:32
Last edited 25/01/2018 - 16:34 by 2 other users

NSW RTBU (Rail Tram & Bus Union) is planning a strike on Monday 29th of Jan, the first day of school this year, and the first working day after the Australia Day long weekend.

Union tells Sydney commuters to stay at home during the strike.

The strike announced merely a week after they took sickie, blamed the timetable and the storm

"The trains will go to bed on Sunday night and won't come back out on Monday," union secretary said.

The union wants its workers to get a 6 per cent annual pay increase, but the Government is refusing to budge on its offer of a 2.5 per cent rise.

Update 1

Despite today's talks, the Rail, Tram and Bus Union (RTBU) NSW secretary Alex Claassens said that at this stage, the planned 24-hour strike would still go ahead on Monday, January 29.

Update 2

Possible pre-strike on Thursday 25th after failed 3% payrise negotiation

Confirmed pre-strike:
train services will be significantly reduced from Thursday 25 January and through the Australia Day long weekend.

Update 3

On Monday 29 January all stations will be closed and no trains will run across NSW.

Update 4

The planned industrial action impacting train services has been suspended by the Fair Work Commission.

Poll Options expired

  • 134
    They deserve 6% pay rise each year over the next 4 years, for what reason?
  • 586
    They already lucky with gov offer of 2.5% pay rise.
  • 21
    They should get 1% pay rise or pay freeze like some of us.
  • 78
    They better off live in a dream world with fairies and unicorns.
  • 42
    I don't care, I drive my $80k investment car.
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Comments

  • Halo375 on 18/01/2018 - 10:39
    +112

    Is there an option for "I don't give a damn as I don't reside in NSW?"

    • [Deactivated] on 18/01/2018 - 11:19
      +25

      Bloody Melburnian:)

        • abb on 18/01/2018 - 15:52
          +73

          Bottom line, privatise the damn thing, reduce the government size.

          Terrible idea (depending on implementation details, but almost certainly terrible).

          Public transport, in almost all places, is run at a loss, for good reason. People simply wouldn't take the train if they had to pay enough to cover the full cost (this would result in a death spiral of increasing prices and reduced patronage).

          You think our roads would cope with the extra traffic? I'm sure more toll roads would solve that problem!!! (sarcasm, in case not obvious)

        • Yorkshire-Man on 18/01/2018 - 17:30
          +21

          @abb: yup, see the UK for the full horror of privatised public transport.

        • mickotron on 18/01/2018 - 18:27
          +15

          @pal:
          Nope, you'd be looking at 4x your current ticket prices for Privatisation to come close to operating in the black.
          Drivers, Station Staff, maintenance, rollingstock, Power system upgrades etc all cost money.

        • mickotron on 18/01/2018 - 19:35
          +17

          @pal:
          Good luck finding professionals who'll work less than a 16 y/o makes at McDonald's.

        • trustnoone on 18/01/2018 - 21:28
          -3

          @abb: While I completely agree with you, I still think there is still a possibility, one thing about privatizing means government is able to move blame off them. Transport in Sydney is always going to attract hate and being able to push that blame onto some other company is a very good way at dealing with it.

          As you say though most likely what will happen if it does is it costs everyone more, transport drivers will be dropped in pay and there will be a few CEO/owners doing very well.

        • Suspect420 on 19/01/2018 - 02:20
          +2

          @lolitsme: why do people also point to Commonwealth examples? Why are we so colonialised and used to being controlled by far too many laws? Competition is a great way to drive better results.

          Privatisation is coming and soon you will compare services between Sydney Metro and Sydney Trains. The government spends far too much beating a dead horse that has well and truly dailed.

          Germany, Spain, Hong Kong are all privatised railways and great examples.

        • abb on 19/01/2018 - 09:00
          +5

          @Suspect420: From what I understand, the Hong Kong rail company(s?) get the land donated to them, and get to keep the proceeds of developing it. Hence train stations are built under shopping centres and apartment towers.

          While I quite like the high-density result, many Australian voters don't, as evidenced by the uproar any time someone tries to do a similar thing in Sydney… I feel like that land acquisition model is ripe for abuse too.

          The fact that Sydney is vastly bigger than HK (12.4:2.8), and a much higher population (7.4:5.0), is also very favourable to the network operation profit margin (16x population density!)

          I had a brief look at the German & Spanish, both appear to be companies that are solely Government owned. Not sure if this has any practical difference to what we have?

        • thetrain on 19/01/2018 - 09:49
          +2

          @Suspect420: Please name a private German or Spanish railway

        • BudgetAce on 19/01/2018 - 09:58
          +10

          All this Privatising = More expensive $$$ for public transport, for Toll Roads, for Electricity, etc !

          All so the new specific private owners can buy bigger mansions and brand new Ferraris !

          Maybe we can look at other public transport in Asia, like Hong Kong's MTR and Singapore's MRT. Both started by the government and instead of selling it off to a specific private entity. They listed it on the Stock Exchange so it becomes Public.

          The board members are a mix of both public and private members.

          Transport prices are than controlled by the government via a vote system where every year the transport operators are allowed to request for a price hike and justify why. Which gets debated and voted on in parliament. There had been times where the price hike has been denied multiple years especially during economic downturns where ppl are not getting pay rises either.

          If we look from the public's point of view, the trains in those places arrive once every 4min during peak hours.

        • Suspect420 on 19/01/2018 - 10:04
          +2

          @thetrain: Deutsche Bahn in Germany and operates accross the globe even for our own light rail in Canberra.

        • thetrain on 19/01/2018 - 10:33
          +4

          @Suspect420: Hahahaha good joke mate!

          There is only one shareholder in Deutsche Bahn, the German Government. Get your facts right first

        • Suspect420 on 19/01/2018 - 12:32
          +2

          Yeah well done for getting your facts wrong. The railway is set up as an enterprise and NOT tun by the government. It is a business and falls in the category of privatisation even though the Federal Gov of Germany is the sole shareholder. It was planned for an IPO in 2008 but has been postponed and rarely discussed due to political pressure.

          Oh and i can guarantee this Sydney fiasco is an inside job to position Sydney Trains into a franchise

        • thetrain on 19/01/2018 - 18:35
          +1

          @Suspect420: I assume you mean not run by the government.

          Maybe you could explain how an enterprise with a sole government shareholder (Deutsche Bahn) is different to a government agency like Sydney Trains. As in actual operational differences, not some words and definitions on paper.

          Do you also consider Australia Post as a private company?

          I don't doubt the ultimate goal for the current NSW government is privitisation and franchising

        • Suspect420 on 19/01/2018 - 23:06
          -8

          @thetrain: you knew exactly what i meant. Your assumption was not an assumption but you being audacious.

          Since you've stooped to grammar and punctuation, your clearly losing ground.

          Take care. From your name it seems we both share the same interests or work in the sameish field. See you around the traps.

          420

          Ih and Australia Post is mostly contracted these days and a pin dick away from being privatised. If the infamous muslim CEO former banker didnt transform Aus Post it would have definitely been another Fed Ex

        • ninetyNineCents on 20/01/2018 - 17:46
          +9

          Privatisation of a government monopoly just creates a free market monopoly and that never ends well, in fact said company simply increases prices, eg gas and electricity.

          I doubt you can name one example where the public got a better deal after the government gave a captive audience to a corporation.

        • [Deactivated] on 20/01/2018 - 18:17
          -6

          @ninetyNineCents:
          I noticed there are lots of socialists on here.
          I bet you can't name a single country, nation, or community who has more than one government but communists who falsely claim there is no government and only people govern people which all are just dictatorships.
          But I tell you what, just look how professional businesses deal with such a mess. Its budget is a waste and they want more instead of bringing profits
          One option that I liked was the countries who rented out every single line of their public transport to different operators or highest bidder. Like airport line.
          At the end of the day, it looks like we definitely will privatise the thing. It's just a matter of time.
          Maybe next election will tell.

          Privatisation, here we come.

        • ninetyNineCents on 20/01/2018 - 18:19
          +7

          @pal:

          How about you name one example where privatisation of a monopoly actually reduced prices for the public.

          You are living a dream if you think the public will pay less if the trains were private. Didnt happen for gas or electricity.

          Do you really think a corporation with a monopoly would charge less when they can charge more ?

        • ninetyNineCents on 20/01/2018 - 18:20
          +2

          @pal:

          P: Like airport line.
          At the end of the day, it looks like we definitely will privatise the thing. It's just a matter of time.

          99: Yeh the airport line which charge how much to get out at the airport ?

          DO you know how much the airport line costs tax payers in addition to the bullshit access fee to use the airport stations ?

        • [Deactivated] on 20/01/2018 - 18:26
          -4

          @ninetyNineCents:
          Every single one of them is a success, compared to this mess of public transport.
          Always late, very expensive, cancelled trains and busses and ferries. Busses never show up, they don't stop. Dirty, messy, unreliable, and they want promotions and higher salaries. Tell me this is a joke.
          Anything is better than this.
          At the end it is not up to us. It will happen when people have enough, wait for it. Maybe this strike will wake up the people.

        • ninetyNineCents on 20/01/2018 - 18:29

          @pal:

          P: Every single one of them is a success, compared to this mess of public transport.

          99: By definition management is responsible for ALL of the transport system.

          Thats their job.

          ~

          P: Always late, cancelled trains and busses and ferries. Busses never show up, they don't stop. Dirty, messy, unreliable, and they want promotions and higher salaries. Tell me this is a joke.

          99: If things are up to shite, then why did management get a 9% rise and why are so many on multiples of 100k ?

          Fairs fair, dont apply double standards.

        • [Deactivated] on 20/01/2018 - 18:40
          -2

          @ninetyNineCents: You have problems with your management? Speak up. Fair enough, I don't support them. I said above, they are the first to be slashed and replaced with a private CEO.
          Indeed all the problems we have is because of the spoiled management, funny they sweep the budget with their salaries. Here are some examples of people who should be held accountable for this mess and privatising it hopefully.

          Gladys Berejiklian, Melinda Pavey, Andrew Constance, Paul Fletcher, Barnaby Joyce and the PM.

        • ninetyNineCents on 20/01/2018 - 19:15
          +1

          @pal:

          P: You have problems with your management? Speak up. Fair enough, I don't support them. I said above, they are the first to be slashed and replaced with a private CEO.

          99: They did. Various news stories have mentioned the situation about continual overtime has gone on for months and years.

          http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-12/sydney-train-meltdowns…

          Following six months of negotiations, the RBTU says Sydney and NSW Trains management have refused to provide certainty around days off and commitment to protecting workers' conditions in the event of privatisation.

          I swear people are so damn simple these days, it took me seconds to find.

        • ninetyNineCents on 20/01/2018 - 19:16

          @pal:

          P: Indeed all the problems we have is because of the spoiled management, funny they sweep the budget with their salaries. Here are some examples of people who should be held accountable for this mess and privatising it hopefully.

          99: Agreed, but you seem to forget the drivers dont make the rules or decisions . Im not defending the upper types, dont assume.

          The PM may make many mistakes but he isnt responsibe for the trains. He cant possibly micromanage at that level, its humanly impossible for one person to look at every government entity at all levels.

        • Maz78 on 21/01/2018 - 08:39

          @thetrain:

          Have you seen what the Aus Post CEO gets paid??
          May as well be!

        • [Deactivated] on 21/01/2018 - 14:53
          +4

          @pal:

          What are you going on about? It costs $14.30 on top of the regular fare to get out at an airport station.

          Your complaints about unmotivated staff is more at a dig at the unions, and I can tell you they exist outside of the government run services too.

          Anything is better? So if they increase fares by $14.30 across the network that's better too?

          There's a reason why public services should be run by the government, because when a profit motive comes along there is no guarantee of better service, only higher prices. And if it goes on a sustained loss guess what? The company is going to fold or divest, while the government has a mandate to keep it running.

        • Elee3112 on 21/01/2018 - 18:18

          @Suspect420:

          MTR (Hong Kong) is a public company run like a private entity.

        • marchred on 22/01/2018 - 10:20
          +1

          @pal: Privatisation of public transport only works in those countries where the population density can deliver the profit margins needed to satisfy the company's share price and dividends - i.e. the stock holders. Australia is too big and sparsely populated for public transport to ever run at a profit - that's why private companies are always asking for tax concessions when they enter this sphere.

        • trongy on 22/01/2018 - 13:52

          @Suspect420:
          Germany does a lot of things more efficiently that Australia - if their railways are more efficient than ours, it might not be due to privitisation alone. It's worth also considering how countries that have a similar culture and similar legal systems to our own do things i.e. Commonwealth countries.

          There's actually an example of railway privatisation closer to home. Melbourne's suburban railways are operated by Melbourne Metro which is 60% owned by Hong Kong's MTR Corporation, but we are nowhere near the efficiency of Hong Kong.

          The contracts have penalties for late services, but not too long ago, Metro drivers were skipping stations in order to avoid contract penalties.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2018 - 14:13
          -1

          @marchred: No, this will scare the hell out of socialists(read this socialised people, this should change, people should be free and independent, the government should be smaller). My suggestion is to privatise the operations but the infrastructure remains public. The government will eventually divide those into two separate government owned companies like what they did to Energy Australia but not selling it out to Chinese or other foreign entities this time. Hopefully they divide each line operations and let small Australian companies compete to operate them under conditions.

          The final goal is that no employees would be employed by the government and this mess get fixed. Cheaper, better, on time, less money spent on salaries, no strike, no cancelled services and people see profit instead of the "LOSS" but hey if you'd say there might be some issues, well hell yes, bring it on. At least we don't waste that much money to be burnt. Anything is better than this. Nothing is the best.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2018 - 15:38
          +1

          @pal:
          I can understand your reasoning for privatization. The end goal of a minimum government is not a bad idea, however, this country outright sucks at controlling large corporations.

          Privatisation can only work if it is a truly free market, ie absence of the typical "Australia is a low density nation with special challenges and businesses needed to be subsidised" utter bollocks.

          Second reason, and equally important, Australia is very socialist and that means minimum wages are astronomical. A free market where price of commodities are based on supply and demand cannot exist if labour, an essential commodity, does not follow that rule.

          In the end, privatization is the probable eventuality as the government has time and time again been bought and the penalty for being corrupt is hardly a deterrent.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2018 - 17:34

          @tshow: Finally I am talking to someone smart who understands business.
          Unfortunately you are right and I am aware of it but enough is enough. Being a semi-communist country will pay the price and so will we. But that should change.

          Honestly, If I offered my employees 10% pay rise, when their average salary is about 2-3 times higher than the average in the country, and they rejected it asking for 24% with a strike that strikes a nation, and this had happened before, I'd take that as serious ongoing threat to the nation.
          I'd dissolve the company, set up a new company, laying off all employees, effective immediately. Then I'd interview the old staff for half the salary and keep the better 30%, replace another 50% and leave 20% of the positions out.
          This is a part of my revolutionary management which has nothing to do with Alan Axelrod.

        • asrey1975 on 23/01/2018 - 01:26

          @ninetyNineCents: Commonwealth bank ?

        • ninetyNineCents on 23/01/2018 - 09:43
          +1

          @asrey1975:

          Write complete sentences, its not clear what statement you are trying to make.

        • npnp on 23/01/2018 - 09:47

          @pal:
          I honestly thought you were trolling or being sarcastic. Ha ha.. You are serious. LOL

        • 0FoxGiven on 23/01/2018 - 09:53

          @lolitsme: O ye. I hated the transport system in the UK. SO bloody expensive! I had a students discount card those days and I still found it expensive.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/01/2018 - 09:56

          @lolitsme: UK public transport system seems excellent to me.

        • jjjjjj on 23/01/2018 - 10:15

          @Suspect420: Hong Kong MTR is owned by Hong Kong government based on Wikipedia.

    • dealman on 22/01/2018 - 14:31
      +4

      I Say Fire the Bastards, hire new staff possibly on contract. Break the strike !

      They are lucky to have secure jobs where they can pull these antics.

      If they were in the private sector where they would have to do Real work they would know. 6 % Does any industry outside gets 6% in private as an EBA and union site we were lucky to get 2.5 %.

      FIRE THEM ! Drain on the tax payers.

      • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2018 - 17:36
        -1

        Oh, hello! Where have you been?
        You are absolutely right.
        Have you voted?
        I noticed while all the votes have remained the same, the strikers have increased votes by 30% to 100 votes, that does not feel organic and smells.

      • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2018 - 19:00
        -2

        Fire them

        Only if it was that easy. Privatisation is the closest option though.
        Looks like the Bob Hawke, Paul Keating and other previous leftist governments are still taking their toll on Australia.
        Unfortunately liberals are not much different. With these two and half leftist parties, Australia doesn't need an enemy.
        Hopefully a not so leftist party will rise soon.

        • [Deactivated] on 24/01/2018 - 12:53
          -1

          Seeing as how Facebook has become a news source and tweets are so popular, social justice and leftist are far more likely to be the dominant voice.

          It is easier to react to emotion than to think.

        • yannyrjl on 24/01/2018 - 21:21
          +1

          @tshow: yep, feelz > realz

        • [Deactivated] on 24/01/2018 - 21:24
          +1

          @yannyrjl:
          :(

      • This Guy on 22/01/2018 - 19:42

        The private sector pays better with better conditions in locations with more affordable housing.

        This is about forced overtime and zero days off. Do you work 14, 21 or 28 day weeks with no notice of your next day off? Are you willing to do that for 40% less than other people doing the same job?

        If your doing worse, how do you find time to post doing 14 hour days, every day? Are you stealing from your employer?

  • thetrain on 18/01/2018 - 10:46
    +24

    Good on them, I support their industrial action 100%.

    If they don't believe they're being fairly treated and remunerated they are well within their right to stop work.

    Otherwise we might as well live in North Korea where you must work when the government tells you to

    • [Deactivated] on 18/01/2018 - 11:24
      +42

      Don't be greedy, accept the 2.5% rise offered by Gov. Consider yourself lucky more than anyone else.

      No one forcing you to work, you can choose not to work and still get Centrelink payment, what a beautiful country we live in isn't it?

      • thetrain on 18/01/2018 - 11:28
        +7

        They are doing exactly what you suggest, choosing not to work.

        • [Deactivated] on 18/01/2018 - 12:13
          +2

          Centrelink won't pay for only 1 day off work but.

        • [Deactivated] on 18/01/2018 - 17:06
          +9

          @blaccdong: The average income in Australia is about $70K if you take out the CEOs and multi millionaires is probably less than $50K, those are the people who should pay more to these guys. This is what we are talking about ;

          Transport for NSW Salaries in Australia
          327 salaries reported Updated on 23/11/17

          ManagementAverage Salary
          Supervisor
          114 salaries reported
          $24.00 / hour
          Works Manager
          5 salaries reported
          $84,091 / year
          Operations Manager
          4 salaries reported
          $124,015 / year
          Lean Manager
          4 salaries reported
          $115,531 / year
          Communication Specialist
          4 salaries reported
          $129,515 / year
          Browse all Transport for NSW - Management salaries
          Project ManagementAverage Salary
          Project Engineer
          10 salaries reported
          $114,932 / year
          Project Officer
          6 salaries reported
          $99,455 / year
          Project Manager
          7 salaries reported
          $140,614 / year
          Principal Project Manager
          5 salaries reported
          $188,279 / year
          Environmental Manager
          3 salaries reported
          $95,817 / year
          Browse all Transport for NSW - Project Management salaries
          Installation & MaintenanceAverage Salary
          Air Conditioning Engineer
          6 salaries reported
          $1,361 / week
          Operator
          3 salaries reported
          $65,570 / year
          Maintenance Manager
          3 salaries reported
          $134,597 / year
          Electrician
          3 salaries reported
          $73,577 / year
          MarketingAverage Salary
          Internal Communications Executive
          4 salaries reported
          $132,288 / year
          Communications Officer
          4 salaries reported
          $94,876 / year
          Senior Communications Officer
          3 salaries reported
          $107,647 / year
          Communications Manager
          3 salaries reported
          $124,015 / year
          Human ResourcesAverage Salary
          Sourcing Specialist
          5 salaries reported
          $119,113 / year
          Senior HR Consultant
          4 salaries reported
          $124,015 / year
          Recruiter
          3 salaries reported
          $81,652 / year

        • zeomega on 18/01/2018 - 23:45
          +18

          @pal:

          What they don't tell you is the 50 consultants earning 200k+ per year. I personally know a few of them

        • Gina Rinehart on 19/01/2018 - 18:05
          +3

          @pal: is this taken from a salary reporting website? Since it's public service it would all be available in the transport nsw enterprise agreement.. Much more reliable than a handful of "reported salaries"

        • [Deactivated] on 19/01/2018 - 20:56

          @brezzo: Thanks, I was concerned about its accuracy. I had a look at that document but it is not clear what is the practical final income as there are a lot of bonuses and other items being added.

          Item 1* On Call (Rostered Day) 37.31 38.20 39.20
          Item 2* On Call (Non Rostered
          Day)
          56.38 57.80 59.20
          Item 3# Overtime Meal $29.40 # #
          Item 4# Breakfast Meal (no
          overnight stay)
          $26.45 # #
          Item 5# Lunch Meal (no overnight
          stay) $29.75

          #

          Item 6# Dinner Meal (no overnight
          stay)
          $50.70 # #
          Item 7# Overnight Stay Away from
          Headquarters Allowance
          Varies
          depending
          on location –
          see relevant
          NSW
          Treasury
          (NSW
          Industrial
          Relations
          Circular)

          #

          Item 8# Incidental Expenses
          Associated with Overnight
          Stay Away from
          Headquarters
          $19.05 # #
          Item 9# Private use of Motor
          Vehicle – up to 1600 cc
          66 cents per
          km

          #

          Item 10# Private use of Motor
          Vehicle – between 1601cc
          and 2600cc
          66 cents per
          km

          #

          Item 11# Private use of Motor
          Vehicle – over 2600 cc
          66 cents per
          km

          #

          Item 12* Holders of St John’s
          Ambulance
          868.18 889.90 912.10
          Item 13* Holders of current
          occupational first aid
          certification issued within
          the previous three years
          and in charge of a First aid
          room in a workplace of 200
          or more
          1303.80 1336.40 1369.80
          61
          Item 14# Remote Location (with
          dependants)
          Grade A
          Grade B
          Grade C
          $1996 pa
          $2647 pa
          $3535 pa

          #

          Remote Location (without
          dependants)
          Grade A
          Grade B
          Grade C
          $1393 pa
          $1856 pa
          $2477 pa

          #

          Item 15# Remote Location Annual
          Leave Travel
          By Private Vehicle Appropriate
          casual rate up
          to maximum
          of 2850 kms
          less $49.20

          #

          Other Transport (with
          dependants)
          Actual
          reasonable
          expenses in
          excess of
          $49.20 and up
          to $329.55

          #

          Other Transport (without
          dependants)
          Actual
          reasonable
          expenses in
          excess of
          $49.20 and up
          to $162.80

          #

          Rail Travel Actual rail fare
          less $49.20

        • Gina Rinehart on 19/01/2018 - 22:08
          +1

          @pal: Generally the salaries listed on the main salary table are close. Not all staff are going to get all of those allowances, so you could probably add maybe 10% to the listed salaries

        • Ryk on 23/01/2018 - 16:09

          @pal:

          you know how averages work, right?
          half the people are above the line, and half the people are below it.

        • BearerOfDadNews on 24/01/2018 - 18:18

          @pal: What about Overtime - Times 2 and 3 on public holidays …. ?
          I recon they make close to double of the base (what is published above - that's my guess), I could be wrong.

      • field1985 on 18/01/2018 - 15:28
        +55

        "you can choose not to work and still get Centrelink payment"

        No you can't. A lot of people love to say this, but that is not the reality.

        If you claim Centrelink, you will be forced to attend a Job Service Provider, if you don't your Centrelink payment is immediately cut off.

        If the JSP finds a role they "think" you can do, you can not refuse it (I've seen people with Doctorates forced to do cleaning work), or you will be immediately cut off Centrelink.

        The JSP will also sign you up for Work for the Dole schemes. Which are essentially slave labour gangs. They don't get minimum wage, they can't look for real work (time is taken doing slave labour), they are stigmatised for it, often work alongside prison day release crews, etc, etc.

        What a beautiful country we live in isn't it?

        • field1985 on 19/01/2018 - 04:36
          +12

          @blaccdong:

          What's your point? That article just mentions people who are receiving disability support pension. It is not a choice "not to work" if you have a disability that makes you incapable of working.

        • abb on 19/01/2018 - 09:01
          +13

          @blaccdong: If you're so jealous of those on welfare, why don't you join them?

      • lint on 19/01/2018 - 09:41
        +6

        No one forcing you to work

        Yep, that's why they're striking, bro. ;)

      • OzzyBrak on 20/01/2018 - 14:25
        +5

        Seems wild that one of the core issues with our economy is low wages growth. Yep so many people are against a group of workers standing together trying to improve wage growth.

      • ninetyNineCents on 20/01/2018 - 18:22

        Yeh just like those greedy dominos or 7/11 employees who want more than 2.5%.

        You have to look at the big picture, just looking at percentage points isnt enough.

        • LadyCocoa1234 on 22/01/2018 - 21:49
          +1

          But they arn’t dominos or 7/11 employees who are undercut and are underpaid. They are well above the minimum wage in Australia.

        • ninetyNineCents on 22/01/2018 - 21:52

          @LadyCocoa1234:

          LC ut they arn’t dominos or 7/11 employees who are undercut and are underpaid. They are well above the minimum wage in Australia.

          99: So what if they are ?

          Theres no law that says only min wage can ask for a payrise of any amount.

          They are underpaid compared to train drivers in Brisbane and Melb. Go check for yourself.

          If your going to bullshit like that, then how about we pretend your boss can cut your wage because you are above minimum wage.

        • LadyCocoa1234 on 22/01/2018 - 21:55
          +1

          @ninetyNineCents: you were the one comparing apples and oranges when you brought up dominos and 7/11. That was the point I was trying to make - that they are different.

        • ninetyNineCents on 22/01/2018 - 21:57
          -2

          @LadyCocoa1234:

          So what if i did, i was just pointing out many people ask for more than 2.4% there is no law that makes it illegal to do so. You introduce nonsense like its illegal to ask for a better deal…

        • LadyCocoa1234 on 22/01/2018 - 22:03

          @ninetyNineCents: No I never mentioned I was for or against industrial action. I was merely stating it it wrong to compare people who work in 7/11 and dominos with people who are earning in the five to six figure range. Of course I wouldn’t consider them as greedy which you sarcastically stated in your comment.

        • ninetyNineCents on 23/01/2018 - 10:02

          @LadyCocoa1234:

          LC: . Of course I wouldn’t consider them as greedy which you sarcastically stated in your comment.

          99: No its not, they are all people and deserve to get the best deal for thesmelves that they can get.

          Lets face it everyone in Australia is overpaid compared to 99% of the world, does that mean none of us deserve any payrise ?

      • Parentheses on 20/01/2018 - 18:55
        +10

        Look at it this way - they are understaffed for what they need. They can get a 20% pay rise and huge cost of living reduction by going to work in other cities. This is bleeding the local workforce dry, hurting the understaffing more, which means more overtime to make things work, which means eventually someone is going to make a serious mistake and we might see a derailment or collision.

        Consider also: 70 crew members calling in sick breaks the system right now, and they called it a 'freak occurrence'. A normal standard for absenteeism averaged out over the entire year for most industries in Australia sits somewhere around 5% absent on any given day. Sydney Trains has approx 3000 crew employed. 5% of that is 150! Half the regular national average is a fluke that cripples them?!?

        They have the power right now, in a BIG way. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they get the full 6%, they hold all the cards.

    • avgbowlofpho on 18/01/2018 - 12:18
      +16

      did I hear North Korea?

      • [Deactivated] on 18/01/2018 - 13:35

        I heard North Korea. Only the government employees get paid, the rest of the country only pays more taxes!

    • ss207k on 19/01/2018 - 09:36
      +13

      Remunerated well. Syd train staff are one of the best paid in the industry.. I know a few in my industry who arent' even close..

      There's overtime, but they do get paid for it. Check with a retail sales person on overtime or some person in a private organisation.. not many get that.

      Fatigues - that's another issue altogether, nothing to do with pay, more to do with hiring more resources to take over.

      I think it's very sad that the union is taking the city to ransom instead of having a constructive meeting.

      Stop for a moment and think about it. If the Gov does agree to pay 6% rise, would it improve the service? No - It's still have issues with 'lack of train drivers, fatigue due to overtime, bad timetable' etc. So why hold the city at ransom for a pay-rise(remuneration - to your point)?

      • peeleep on 20/01/2018 - 07:59

        I’m all for performance based pay that drives better customer outcomes. Perhaps a one off bonus in the short term but also a plan to recruit more drivers to reduce hours worked?

        I think the issue much more than just the 6%pa increase. The recent time table change has exacerbated problems with hours worked, overtime, and weekend shifts.

        Simply put it, they have been working more to deliver the new timetable and still get paid the same. It’s not totally unfair to ask for money to that regard. I also read that other state train providers pay more for train drivers with more attractive hours.

        Pay is a key issue, but what isn’t mentioned much in the media is how negotiations to reduce the hours of drivers working. More can be said about improving the effective rate of pay by the hour that has worsened. Nsw Government won’t budge on the new timetable (another issue), and the remaining solutions take time to implement eg hiring more drivers.

        Unions have done a poor job selling this whole thing to the media though.

      • ninetyNineCents on 20/01/2018 - 17:48

        ss: Fatigues - that's another issue altogether, nothing to do with pay, more to do with hiring more resources to take over.

        99: Absolute nonsense. The point of increasing the salary is it will attract new people to join, so the poor staff arent forced to work overtime. Those poor barstards have thousands of people's lives in their hands, they shouldnt be working overtime all the time.

        • Sammyboy on 20/01/2018 - 22:06
          +2

          Fatigue….what an absolute joke. Was told by a friend, that he has a mate who learned 6 languages fluently working as a train driver (and doing the reading whilst operating the train. Said it was the easiest job compared to trams and buses.

        • ninetyNineCents on 20/01/2018 - 22:12

          @Sammyboy:

          So what if train driving is easier than trams and busses, that doesnt make it an easy job. There are more than three jobs in the country.

          Im sure i can find other jobs worse than yours that get paid less, that doesnt mean we should cut your pay ….

        • Sammyboy on 20/01/2018 - 22:13

          @ninetyNineCents: My point being it obviously wasn't too fatiguing if this guy managed to learn 6 languages whilst on the job!

        • ninetyNineCents on 20/01/2018 - 22:16
          +1

          @Sammyboy:

          S: My point being it obviously wasn't too fatiguing if this guy managed to learn 6 languages whilst on the job!

          99: Thats not how you measure fatigue.

          Anyway anyone can learn 6 languages on any job, it all depends on what you mean by learn languages. Lots of people claim to speak 6 languages the only problem is they only know a handful of words if they are lucky.

        • Sammyboy on 20/01/2018 - 22:20
          -3

          @ninetyNineCents: This guy was fluent in speaking, reading and writing

        • ninetyNineCents on 20/01/2018 - 22:23
          +2

          @Sammyboy:

          Sure he was. Im sure 99 out of 100 people would believe you.

        • ss207k on 20/01/2018 - 23:10

          Whatever the outcome, the biggest losers of the strike are the honest taxpaying ticket paying commuters..

        • ninetyNineCents on 21/01/2018 - 17:04
          -1

          @ss207k:

          Well the real cause of this train chaos goes back to the government increasing immigration and all related programs to record numbers.

          The effects of this have screwed everything up in places like Sydney. Houses increasing 2x in a few years, many more cars, nit enough trains and so on. Thats the real problem that nobody wants to recognise needs fixing.

          Australia is full nobody else should be allowed in. Its madness to allow immigration which adds 100k+ to places like Sydney everywhere, when there arent enough trains, homes and so on.

      • irajohn90 on 25/01/2018 - 09:27
        +1

        Agree, a 6% raise won't improve service. If you look at the inflation rate, it's only around 1.8%-2%, so a 6% rise each year is 3x above the rate of inflation. If Transport NSW did agree with the 6%, they would likely have to raise fares. also they would have to hire more drivers, so that would further increase costs.

    • dealman on 22/01/2018 - 14:33

      are well within their right to stop work.

      Does the employer have a right to fire them ?

      • LadyCocoa1234 on 22/01/2018 - 21:45
        +1

        No they have done it in accordance with law and there for it is considered protected industrial action.

    • Easygoingjoe on 24/01/2018 - 22:14

      Take the grievances up with the government - not with the millions of commuters who have nothing to do with it.

  • onetwothreefour on 18/01/2018 - 10:46
    +68

    Union tells Syd commuters to stay at home during the strike.

    This part here pisses me off. What about people who cannot take the day off, contractors who don't get annual leave or people who don't have enough leave to cover that day or people like me who doesn't just want to use up a day of leave because greedy people are demanding a 6% payrise.

    • ronnknee on 18/01/2018 - 11:36
      +23

      Yea pretty selfish of the union. Do they realise they are negatively affecting everyone else?

        • airzone on 19/01/2018 - 08:23
          +21

          Getting a neg isn't the end of the world.. Here's another one for you. See? Lol

      • abb on 18/01/2018 - 15:54
        +25

        Do they realise they are negatively affecting everyone else?

        That's kinda the point of a strike…

        I'd go on a strike if it would get me more money. But no one would give a shit, hence no offer of more money to come back.

        • tryagain on 18/01/2018 - 19:16
          +21

          So if the Union asked for 60% it would still be management's fault? It's not the Union that gets to decide pay rates.

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