If You Split Payments, if One Person Pays by Card Does The Other Person Have to Pay The Card Surcharge if Paying by Cash?

bettina44 on 04/01/2018 - 20:17
Last edited 09/01/2018 - 16:27 by 1 other user

So I dine at Chin Chin's last week with a friend, when we went to get our bill the waitress offered us split payments. She decided to pay her portion by card and was charged a card surcharge of 1.8%. I decided to pay by cash but the waitress wanted to charge me the surcharge as well because my friend paid by card. I asked her why should I have to pay the card surcharge when I'm paying cash and she just said that is the way it is - I don't blame her because she is clearly under instruction by management but how the heck is that fair?

I was careful in checking the menu's fine print and no where does it mention that is one person pays by card that the other party has to also pay the card surcharge regardless if they pay by cash or card.

She was very reluctant to let me pay my cash without the surcharge and we had to ask for a credit card refund of my friends money so I wouldn't have to pay the card surcharge. But when she came back, they decided it wasn't worth the trouble to refund the card payment and gave me my change back sans card surcharge.

UPDATE: NSW Fair Trading called me back this morning. They told me that what Chin Chin was doing was in their words was 'definitely unlegal' and they said they were going to follow this up with the restaurant. I've also made an enquiry to the ACCC about this and am waiting to hear back from them.

Also clarify, I did first raise this in writing to Chin Chin to which I got no reply and I really couldn't care less about losing a dollar or two. It's the principle whether you go about ripping people off a $1 or a $100. It reminds me of a story about an payroll officer at a fairly big company paying people 9c short for god know how many years. When he went on holidays the person who replaced him found this out and realised the 9c he was taking off people's pay check was going to him and it amounted it tens of thousands. Though a dollar or two doesn't mean much, if Chin Chin is doing this to everyone it adds up.

And no, I did not cause a massive scene that opened the gates of hell. I was polite but firm about it as I believe it will get you further than being abusive. And no friendships were harmed, we had coffee afters then went about our merry ways.

Food & Grocery

Comments

    • bettina44 on 09/01/2018 - 16:06

      I would but there facebook isn't very active/ responsive. I sent them an email instead and have yet to receive a response.

  • MelbBargainChaser77 on 05/01/2018 - 06:56
    +12

    I was looked down upon by the owner of a certain restaurant because I wanted to pay with a Good Food gift card. He literally had a rant at me for wanting to use my card because the Age, as the operator of this gift card apparently will take a 10% commission. NOT MY PROBLEM. I also told him of he wants to avoid this charge to stop accepting and advertising his restaurant takes these cards. I wanted to name and shame this place on Facebook, but the meal and the staff were superb, so I let it go. But that crusty old c***ts attitude towards me has ensured I will never step foot in the place again.

    • Ozsheila on 05/01/2018 - 10:36
      +1

      Sounds like a truly appalling & unwarranted experience.

      I would be interested to know which establishment this was as I was given one of these cards for Christmas? Am now beginning to feel wary 😒 PM me if you wish.

      • tryagain on 05/01/2018 - 17:16
        +5

        You should go to the same restaurant just to annoy the owner, apparently the food and service are good

    • bobbified on 05/01/2018 - 12:12
      +2

      I wanted to name and shame this place on Facebook, but the meal and the staff were superb, so I let it go.

      I wouldn't really call it naming and shaming. You're just stating the facts about your own experience.

    • bettina44 on 09/01/2018 - 16:10

      I had a similar problem before where I wasn't allowed to pay with a good food gift card because I was also using a dimmi discount. The waiter wasn't rude or anything about it but I was sympathetic so I was happy to pay by cash and use the card another time.

  • bobbified on 05/01/2018 - 09:07
    +1

    when we went to get our bill the waitress offered us split payments

    I'm actually surprised that the waitress even offered to allow the splitting of bills.

    Is that the norm for Chin Chins?

    Lots of restaurants I go to have a sign specifically stating that there's no split bills. And I completely understand the reasons for it.
    If the bill is to be split amongst the group, we would normally work it out on the table amongst ourselves before paying so that we're not holding up the waiter/waitress.

    I hear (no personal experience) it's quite common in the UK restaurants where they come around with the EFT machine to each person to pay their share.

    • GG57 on 05/01/2018 - 09:50
      +2

      Splitting a bill has become more acceptable here, even when it is discouraged on the menu, and I noticed recently that the Comm Bank EFTPOS machine tablet thingy has the functionality built in.
      Certainly in the UK, but in other Euro countries as well, it is very common and accepted.

  • IMadeYouReadThis on 05/01/2018 - 14:04

    fml, just do it.

  • Brendoo on 05/01/2018 - 14:48
    +4

    Scam. You don't pay credit card surcharges for a cash payments. Simple as that. Fair enough for complaining, out of principle.

    The credit card transaction was for your friend's amount only. That is put through the banking terminal and any surcharge is calculated only on that amount. Cash is not put through the banking terminal as EFT and would not trigger a surcharge.

    How do I know this? I build these systems and am extremely familiar with how it works including the most complex split payments.

    • John Kimble on 05/01/2018 - 14:55
      +6

      I doubt Chin Chin (which I believe is a very popular/successful restaurant in Melbourne) is purposely trying to scam customers using such a tactic. The benefit from it would be minimal and I wouldn't expect this type of situation would happen very often???

      I reckon it is just a poorly conceived procedure/instruction from management…or perhaps it has been interpreted incorrectly by that staff member???

      • tryagain on 05/01/2018 - 17:19

        My money is on a misinterpretation from the staff member

    • dandandan on 08/01/2018 - 01:50

      Doesn’t everyone do the transaction on their own POS system
      first them manually enter amount into banking terminal machine? obviously hitting surcharge Card on their POS system calculates the surcharge so it’s a limitation on their POS system.

  • belongsinforums on 05/01/2018 - 15:15
    +3

    Well done on standing your ground! If only everyone did that. Half of these commenters should be ashamed to call themselves "ozbargainers"

  • revo on 05/01/2018 - 15:42
    +2

    Many places don't offer split payments to eliminate issues like this. It's much easier for them to have you sort it out between yourself, than to do it on their end, just think of it as a tip for even allowing split payments.

    I've been in a slightly different situation, I acquired a number of free movie tickets from various promos, a few of my friends wanted to see a film and so I decided to use these. As I was booking the tickets I realised that I had to pay a booking fee of $1.20 or there abouts (per person)… which when added up, came close to a standard ticket. I never asked for or mentioned the money because it seemed petty, but it did get me thinking about the irony.. that everyone else got to see a free film, while I had to pay for it. Would you guys have approached the situation differently?

    • zhenjie on 06/01/2018 - 01:15
      +3

      Just ask your mates for $1 or $2. Simple. Any true friend would pay it.

    • sprsl on 06/01/2018 - 09:49
      +2

      I'd just ask them to shout the popcorn and drinks so everyone can contribute a little something.

  • Schezwon on 05/01/2018 - 15:47
    -1

    At the end of your life, money don't mean anything, you can't take it with you. Just enjoy and be happy.

  • aussieprepper on 05/01/2018 - 16:01

    If this was a mate i wouldn't even split the bill id shout this time the next time its my mates shout. If its some thing like a first date that was average i would also get angry lol wouldn't think to much of it after.
    Last date i went on i paid in full but i did eat twice as much as her and she paid for dessert so it was evenish.

  • mirridon on 05/01/2018 - 16:43

    I guess the Surcharge was split percentage wise? Did you friend pay half of the 1.8% amount thus you covered the other half with your cash? That would make sense to me, because you are being charged that amount it must be covered by any payment necessary.

    The only thing that wouldn't make sense is if the surcharge of 1.8% was charged to you individually and your friend, in which case I can understand what you are saying. But, in saying all this, I wouldn't have cared about it unless I needed to pay upwards of say $10 in surcharges, I would then try understand the reason why. If they gave me a valid excuse I wouldn't persist the issue.

  • [Deactivated] on 05/01/2018 - 17:56
    +3

    Take it a step back…

    It's against consumer law for the restaurant to charge a card surcharge when they don't actually incur the cost. They didn't incur a 1.8% cost for your part of the payment (as it was paid in cash), so they legally can't charge any kind of surcharge on it. The 1.8% surcharge sounds fair, but it's effectively a 3.6% surcharge when there's 1.8% on the whole bill despite a split payment.

    If the situation was a fixed rate surcharge (ie $0.30 + 1.5%*) then imo your friend should be paying the $0.30 - not $0.15 each.

    Note the above charge would be legal as the fixed rate amount is charged no matter of the transaction value - they'd just be passing that on. When it's a percentile rate they can only charge a percent on the value paid by card, matching the fees they'll be paying.

    tl;dr:

    The surcharge was illegal in the first place.
    The restaurant didn't themselves incur a 1.8% charge for that half of the payment.
    They can't pass on a card surcharge they didn't incur.

    • pat25d on 07/01/2018 - 08:18
      -2

      You don't maths much do you?

      2x 1.8% surcharges is still 1.8%, not 3.6%.

      E.g. if the bill was $100 and split into 2, that would be $50 each. 1.8% of $50 is 0.90. Both surcharges would then be $1.80 which is 1.8% of the total bill.

      • [Deactivated] on 07/01/2018 - 14:34
        +2

        Correct me if I'm wrong here, but way I read it the restaurant charged 1.8% on OPs half despite a cash payment, yes?

        If the bill is $100, the fee would be $1.80 for card payment.

        When OPs friend pays $50 by card the restaurant receives a fee of 1.8% ($0.90) to process the transaction.

        When OP pays his half the restaurant does not incur any fees for the cash payment. The restaurant still insists on charging a $0.90 fee. OP passss this fee onto his friend.

        His friend has now paid $1.80 in card surcharges for their $50 transaction. The restaurant has recovered $1.80 to cover ~$0.90 in fees. The restaurant is not complying with consumer law.

        Overall, since recent changes consumer law is very simple with card surcharges. If they don't incur the cost themselves, they can't charge you for it. The restaurants hasn't incurred a 1.8% fee on OPs half of the payment, so to charge him (or his friend) for this is illegal.

        tl;dr:
        Credit card surcharges are only chargeable when paying by card.
        Only $50 was paid by card.
        1.8% of $50 is $0.90
        Restaurant tried to charge $1.80
        If OPs friend didn't pay on card this wouldn't be the case. There would be no fee.
        This is effectively a 3.6% fee for the $50 paid on card and 0% fee for OPs half.

        You can look at it as 1.8% on both halves, but then there's the question of what cost they're passing on for the cash payment - there's no surcharge on cash…

      • tomsco on 08/01/2018 - 10:40

        That's embarrassing.

  • serpserpserp on 05/01/2018 - 18:32
    +2

    TLDR - I had a problem and sorted it out.

  • jungle on 05/01/2018 - 18:38

    I didn't quite understand what the OP actually meant. Say if the total amount is $100. Which one below was true?

    1. The OP paid $50 cash to the restaurant; and then the OP's friend paid $50 to the restaurant by credit card.
    2. The OP paid $50 cash to her friend; and then the OP's friend paid $100 to the restaurant by credit card.

    Apparently, in option 1 the surcharge should be $0.90 whereas in option 2 it should be $1.80.

    If the restaurant insists to charge $1.80 surcharge, their argument can be that "sorry, we do not support splitting bills; 1 bill can only be paid in 1 payment method". Then the OP has to go with option 2; but at least her friend will get more points out of the credit card expense. Considering that her friend will earn some the extra points, I believe it's fair for the OP to pay $0.45 surcharge to her friend.

    • spackbace on 05/01/2018 - 19:14

      From what I can tell, they wanted option 1, restaurant's systems only allow surcharge for option 2, so op got charged the extra and disputed it

  • T1OOO on 05/01/2018 - 19:15

    its the person who chose to pay by card that has to incurred the surcharge fully,.. that is pretty obvious, this is comon sense… you paid your share…

    unless you both split and ate the surcharge, did you take bite?

    ohhh i jsut read it ,,, they wanted to charge a double surcharge for a SINGLE transaction…. FK me they are out of their mind, the surcharge is applied to the TRANSACTIOn… that pays by card, NOT each of the transactions regardless if on is cash or not, man,.. wtf??!?!?!!

    id just give them the amount due, and tell them to call the cops if they want to take it further…

    yeah i dont get why, you didnt just pay the cash to your friend and let her pay for it all.

    HRMMM,,, ok i am strating to GET IT! noww……

    they restaurant wanted the % it wasnt say 1.50$ surcharge but a % on the total, and they wanted the % applied to the WHOLE bill,… we'll thats also them in the wrong,.. because its liek we said a fee on the TRANSACTION portion paid by card, NOT the full bill.

  • imahapyboy on 05/01/2018 - 19:59

    only 1.8%, did you ask them about cashrewards? or flybuys points?

  • Eeples on 05/01/2018 - 23:36
    +1

    Did you get a split bill (and each person got a bill for what each ordered) or did you split the bill and you tried to pay half each?

    If the former, yes, imo the surcharge on the cash bill was ridiculous.

    If the latter I’m not so sure. (It might have something to do with their accounting software).

    (And, if you got a split bill that halves the bottle of wine you shared…. then lol.)

  • lethalmoney on 06/01/2018 - 00:36

    you need real problems in your life to get some perspective.

  • mungas on 06/01/2018 - 01:34

    You’re Yohanas mate?

  • imurgod on 06/01/2018 - 08:54
    -3

    I don't think they can charge 1.8% anymore. Report them. Max they can charge I'd 1.2%

    • John Kimble on 06/01/2018 - 10:19

      They can pass on whatever they get charged and no more. That could be over 1.2% eg https://www.westpac.com.au/business-banking/merchant-service…

      Oh apparently you have to work off averages: https://www.westpac.com.au/business-banking/merchant-service…

      • tomsco on 08/01/2018 - 10:44

        My understanding is if they want to set a single fee, they have to work off the lowest charge, not an average. For example, if a Mastercard could vary from 1% to 1.5% (premium cards, maybe), the most they can charge Mastercard users is 1%, unless they can identify someone has a premium card. They cannot just charge 1.25% (average assuming equal sales between the two rates).

        If businesses want to set a single surcharge across multiple payment methods, the surcharge must be set at the level of the lowest cost method, not an average. For example, if a business’s cost of acceptance for Visa Debit is 1 per cent, for Visa Credit is 1.5 per cent, and for American Express is 2.5 per cent, the single surcharge would be 1 per cent as that is the lowest of all payment methods.

        https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/excessive-payment-surc…

    • THICKnSLOW on 06/01/2018 - 13:25
      -1

      The % rates are dependent on the TYPE of credit card being used (the rates vary and are not the same i.e. Standard VISA, Premium VISA etc), and the rate the merchant facilities bank charges the proprietor.

      • imurgod on 06/01/2018 - 15:30

        True, but 1.8% is pretty hefty. I can't imagine anyone is paying that much these days. Even Amex is coming into line.

        I'd question it.

  • DarkOz on 06/01/2018 - 11:56
    +1

    Many places don't allow split payments because a straight forward single payment could become complicated. It's such a waste of time for the workers and invariably end up with a dispute for one reason or another.

  • regretfulshopper on 06/01/2018 - 12:19
    +1

    To get some clarity on surcharging, a surcharge is meant to be the average cost of acceptance for taking card payments. This can vary from business to business depending on the agreements they have with their payment providers and also includes whatever costs are incurred in taking payments ( e.g terminal rental).

    What OP appears to have experienced is a surcharge being applied at the POS ( this an assumption on only card payments being used). If this was done, then all portions of the bill would have a surcharge

    Chin chin should have taken her payment of cash first and then surcharged the portion of the bill left.

  • THICKnSLOW on 06/01/2018 - 13:14

    OP should have paid using credit card that earn reward points instead of paying cash, since the friend paid using card.

    Only use cash when paying at markets, massages or places where you are offered a discount for paying cash.

    • tomleonhart on 06/01/2018 - 14:33

      IT really depends. a 1.8% surcharge would usually mean a netl oss when you convert the point you earn to a $ figure.

    • sillyguy on 06/01/2018 - 15:47

      Or places where you cannot let the record of transaction appears on ur statement…

      • El Grande on 08/01/2018 - 12:54

        "massages" lol

  • Dreamcast on 06/01/2018 - 15:53
    -1

    Wrong one.

  • GourmetFoodie on 06/01/2018 - 16:29
    +4

    It's the principle of the matter, and good on you for kicking up a fuss! The justification for credit card surcharge fees is the merchant fee the restaurant has to pay in order to run the payment through the POS terminal. There is no such fee in existence for taking a cash payment as they don't have to use any machine to process it. That was just a money grab plain and simple. Won't be going to Chin Chin!

  • Sloppyfingers on 06/01/2018 - 18:11
    +4

    I would have done what OP did. It's not about $$ but principle.
    For example, my mate & I went to Masala Bowl in CBD for lunch and they charged surcharge even without mentioning there is surcharge on card payment. By the time I realised there is surcharge, paywave had done its job. I had the cash but didn't use since I didn't know about surcharge. It was a busy place so decided to avoid inconveniencing others. But, when I saw the owner while having my food I told him that the counter person is taking surcharge without informing. To my surprise he said, 'Everybody knows about the surcharge and they can't be telling everyone' basically implying he doesn't care about new customers. I confronted him that he should display as per law there is surcharge on card payment. He got rude and pointed to one corner shouting that its displayed there. My friend went up there to check and said it was not visible being small font and opposite side of the payment counter. He shrugged and said he can't do anything about it. Needless to say that was our last visit to them!

    • dandandan on 08/01/2018 - 02:01

      Reminds me how I got around Amex surcharge with Shop Small, took out my Mastercard where the was no surcharge and quickly tapped with my phone with Apple pay. Surcharge charge is BS in my opinion, you need to estimate all
      costs including banking costs and factor it in to your total prices charged, to many businesses taking advantage.

  • benbarren on 06/01/2018 - 19:12
    +1

    this is a bigger issue than it seems in so far as hospo joints like the once happening still cashcow chin chin are being targeted daily by point of sale hardware terminal providers with the promise of a free/new/fancy payment terminal that will pay them more money and transfer the money to them quicker than competitors.
    eg Square by twitter co-founder https://squareup.com/au/pricing
    common pitches include ability to absorb bank costs like tap'n'go and pass them onto the customer.
    bottom line is the waiter couldn't have split the banking costs as the fancy new POS terminal is set up to add a couple percentage points.
    as much as i like android pay it is making us pay 2% vig everytime we go out…
    So my mate that is a cafe owner relayed to me over a morning macchiato as he was installing new POS machinery. https://impos.com.au/

  • yellowfever on 07/01/2018 - 01:49

    principle is absolutely relevant.
    I would definetly cause a scene regardless of $1 or $100. I would pull out the manager and make them confront to their reasoning for an illegal cash transaction surcharge. Since this a relatively well known restarant in Melb they would surely be changing their split payment cash surcharge

    Although having said that it depends who I was dining with before I decide to cause a scene lol

  • lbkmumma on 07/01/2018 - 05:27

    Good luck if you were on a date and apply those princples. Haha. Don't eat out if you can't afford the cost plus the extra few bucks.

  • thriftybunny on 07/01/2018 - 11:13

    What's OzBargain's acceptable social conduct on the following scenario?
    A group goes out to eat, no split bill available, the person who chose to pay first uses a credit card (say amex) and incurs a credit card surcharge. When the rest of the group pay him/her back, should they cover their % of credit card bill or just their meal amount?

    • tomsco on 08/01/2018 - 10:48
      +2

      TBH, if I went out with a group, assuming we all ate similar, we'd probably just get the bill and divide by x patrons and probably just all round up to the nearest $5/$10. So quite possibly we wouldn't know there's a surcharge, and the rounding up may cover it.

      OzBargain licence revoked.

      • thriftybunny on 08/01/2018 - 22:12

        :) I usually just go with the flow but was curious to see what other people thought, since the OP had attracted such strong opinions ;)

        • tomsco on 09/01/2018 - 00:05

          If I did now it was happening, I may say something, but yeh, go with the flow…

          If it was just me and my missus… well, I think she'd support me when I pulled them up on it.

  • derrida derider on 07/01/2018 - 16:10

    The costs of handling cash (time, plus risk of fraud, theft or even holdups) are generally much bigger for vendors than card fees - that's why supermarkets, for example, are happy to give cash out at the till to reduce their holdings.
    This is just an annoying petty scam, which should be beneath a classy joint. And it's counterproductive too because my response when that happened would have been "Oh dear. Tell you what - why don't I just not bother putting any change in your tip jar."

  • El Grande on 08/01/2018 - 12:52
    +1

    I wouldn't go back there again unless you like your food extra "saucy". Pick your battles. Their computer might add the surcharge on the whole amount and refund means they pay fees twice once to accept payment and once too refund.

  • Starlight8 on 08/01/2018 - 13:09
    +3

    Not to sure why people are kicking a fuss that you are fine dining..

    I've been to many 3 hats and michelins around but I still like to save where I can.

    And I think thats right you had a fuss over it, I would.

    Its a matter of principle that you shouldnt need to pay it as you are paying cash…. it doesnt leave a great taste after even though its an insignificant amount.

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