Sleep Therapy - Any Experiences?

dumdidum on 23/12/2017 - 17:40

Hi guys,

I've had problems with my sleep for many years and it's only getting worse:

  • Problems getting to sleep, particularly if I'm worrying about something stressful in my life or have an event I'm nervous about the next day
  • Waking up after as little one or two hours of sleep and then not being able to go back to sleep - probably the biggest stressor
  • Even going back to sleep doesn't result in "deep sleep" but just a weird period of half-consciousness where I wake up feeling tired as hell and like I didn't really sleep at all

Just wondering if anyone out there has had any experiences with sleep clinics, sleep studies, alternative treatments, etc.?

I do not think it is sleep apnea as I am fairly fit and still in my 20s.

Honestly, it is killing me at the moment and it can't continue

Thanks

Health & Beauty

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 23/12/2017 - 18:29
    +26

    I've been insomniac for most of my life, off and on. Suggestions are…

    Dial back on the caffeine and grog. No caffeine for me after mid-day. Booze does not help you sleep, unless you drink an absolute shedload and the headache the next day isn't worth it. :)
    Have a routine before bed and try to stick to it. Not always possible, but the idea is to train your brain and body to get into that sleep mood.
    Ease off on the screen time and install apps like f.lux.
    A noise generator (OK, a fan!) helps me. That nice, soothing white-noise hiss is great.
    Meditation can help with anxiety and relaxation, so maybe try that?
    And if you can't sleep and find yourself in that half-awake state, get up, do something else relaxing for a bit, then try again. Sometimes you need to break the cycle of just lying there without sleeping properly.

    • OldBugger on 24/12/2017 - 17:04
      +5

      Agree with all the above especially the no caffeine after midday and reduced screen time before bed. I suggest read a book instead (I recommend Cosmos by Carl Sagan 😴). Any book will prepare you for sleep but Carl's way with words and cosmic perspective may also help with your stress.

      If you are waking up in the middle of the night, try having a guided sleep meditation ready to go like this one. Just ensure you have the 'autoplay' off!

      • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 15:29
        +1

        Yes, will try and cut down on using all the electronic devices, guilty of phone over-use right here.

        I will give Cosmos a shot (astronomy being a hobby of mine anyway) and thank you for the link for the meditation audio, I am willing to try everything and will definitely give this a go!

        • wozz on 27/12/2017 - 08:33

          Yeah just not using my phone in the last hour before bed has made a big difference for me. For some reason that screen makes me ultra awake, bad idea lying in bed browsing stuff on the phone just before you try to get to sleep.

          I also found having kids helped. After baby #1, for the first time as far back as I can remember, I was able to get to sleep within probably 10 mins. Used to always be minimum 1-2hrs
          Unfortunately it sort of went back to normal after a while

        • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 18:48

          @wozz: Haha, this won't happen for a while, but I will make a note of it. To think there are sleep benefits to having a kid!

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 15:26
      +1

      Agreed, in any case coffee doesn't agree with my stomach anyway! Alcohol has definitely helped to get to sleep, if not with middle-of-the-night insomnia, but thankfully I haven't resorted to using this regularly.

      I actually tried sleeping at 11pm and waking at 7am every day for several months - but this didn't seem to have any effect.

      I'm using Night Shift on IOS at the moment, but if anyone has suggestions for any other apps…

      I actually sleep with ear plugs in at the moment, because I'm the lightest sleeper in the world, but I will try the background noise suggestion, thank you!!

      I've tried meditation before and might go back to that. I remember it did make me feel very drowsy when I used deep breathing at the same time.

      Unfortunately, I've tried getting up and doing something - usually results in me staying awake for the remainder of the night :(

      Thanks so much :)

      • [Deactivated] on 25/12/2017 - 17:50
        +2

        Thanks so much :)

        If any of it helps, great! :)

        What works for me might not for you, there's not a magic bullet to solve all of this.
        I've got a very busy mind (along with other mental health issues), so for me, getting up, writing down the ideas that are keeping me awake, sketching whatever it is or just making a list of my worries helps. It gets it out of my head and into a concrete form that I can either work on or laugh at the next day.

        Tried pills, but the only thing that comes close to working is heavy-duty sedatives. Not something that you want to make a habit of.
        So I haven't actually solved the issue, but have learned to live with it in such a way that it doesn't completely screw me up. And on the whole, some of the 3am ideas are entirely worth the aggro.

        Best of luck and a Merry Xmas to you!

      • Tangenyahu on 26/12/2017 - 15:02
        +6

        Try sleep restriction for a while—so don't go to bed until you're absolutely exhausted, when you know that you're going to fall asleep when you get into bed. If you don't, get up, dont' lie there, and then try again. Wake up at the same time every single time, no excuses. So if you end up falling asleep at 0300, then so be it; you still get up at 0700, for example. The next day you should be able to go to bed and fall asleep a bit earlier, and the day after that earlier yet. Slowly you should be able to increase your bedtime until it's something decent. It's going to be shit when yous first start, but I've had good feedback about this.

        Also +100 to what NoPantsToday said, especially the bit about a bedtime routine, and last bit about getting up. If you're still awake in 20 minutes, get up, leave the bed and the bedroom and do something not strenuous or involving a screen, such as reading or doing sudoku or crosswords or something. A patient of mine use to iron! The idea is to train your body and mind not associate the bed with a stressful and traumatic experience. Remember that the bed and bedroom should only be for sex and sleep, so don't do stuff like watch TV in bed.

        Lastly, please go and see a sleep physician—it could be something physiological as well as mental.

        source: I'm a sleep scientist.

        • Rokobear on 27/12/2017 - 18:14
          +1

          +1 for sleep restriction, it's unbelievably tough to do properly for a few weeks but worked a treat for me after trying a lot of other things mentioned in these posts. Be careful driving if you do take it on. I saw a sleep therapist who prescribed the program.

          Tried melatonin from a GP, tried re-timer glasses - latter was beneficial too but the sleep restriction was by far the solution for me.

        • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 18:51

          Thanks, I think I've tried this before in the past. How about if I sleep at say 11pm, then wake at 1am. What do I do then? Try to re-sleep or just get up and do whatever until I'm exhausted again?

          Good tip regarding associating the bed with trauma; this is actually what it's become now where I'm dreading sleep…

          Will definitely weigh up options regarding sleep studies; would you happen to have a recommendation? Thanks!

        • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 18:52

          @Rokobear: Glasses look interesting, so many approaches which I didn't know were available..

          Actually tried melatonin again for the first time in a while, helped with getting to sleep (felt weary) but not staying asleep :(

        • Rokobear on 27/12/2017 - 19:09

          @dumdidum:
          Yes if you wake at 1am just do whatever until you're exhausted again but regardless of whether you sleep again you still get up at the same time.

          And no matter how trashed you are the next day you have to stay awake until your set bedtime again eg bed at midnight or 1am then up at 6am every morning.

          It's super tough for the first week or two (because initially you don't sleep much between midnight and 6am) but the idea is that you build up enough sleep pressure so that you do then sleep when you go to bed at midnight.

          Then when you're sleeping well during those hours you go to bed 30 mins earlier and see if you still sleep well etc. until you find the best routine with enough sleep pressure.

          No sleeping in on weekends etc as you need to maintain that sleep pressure…

        • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:11

          @Rokobear: Thank you, sleep pressure is a good way of putting it. So hard with work but I know it's worth it in the end!

        • Becsavers on 29/12/2017 - 13:49

          @dumdidum: If melatonin is helping you get to sleep, but not stay asleep, it might be worth trying a slow release version such as this one: https://au.iherb.com/pr/Natrol-Melatonin-Time-Release-1-mg-9…

        • dumdidum on 04/01/2018 - 21:47

          @Becsavers: Thank you Bec, I think it is just the thing I need at the moment :)

  • [Deactivated] on 23/12/2017 - 18:33
    +2

    sleep apnea can happen at any age our little boy has it and he's 3, still hasn't had his tonsils or adenoids out yet but do you snore or has anyone told you that you sometimes struggle for a breath while sleeping. they are just some signs of sleep apnea.

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 15:33

      I have been told that I do snore sometimes, although not excessively. Hmm..something to think about, I dismissed it out of hand but will ask my GP about it.

      Thank you for the suggestion.

      • Toons on 27/12/2017 - 20:25
        +1

        RowdyAlpha is correct age is no boundary either is fitness level although the fitness does help. I found the morning worked best for me get the oxygen round the body and the fresh air in the lungs.

        Getting the Sleep study done is is the best way to get some of the things ruled out without medication. (which you should leave as second to last option including alcohol, Alcohol is bad idea even if it helps you nod off you might think it's getting you to sleep but you actually have a worse night for it).

        If diagnosed some Specialists will give you an option of surgery this should be last choice as it has a shelf life and slowly regresses over time. leaving you back at square one.

        You used to be only able to do the sleep study at a clinic overnight, but there was a thread on here about 6 months ago where someone said you can get them done at home now bulk billed, while less intrusive in one sense i guess but you still have all those external influences on hand.

        Sleep Apnoea It's also a lot more common than you might think, you need to find an outlet to get your mind away if you are stressing about something in particular keep a notebook next to your bed write it down so you start to learn that you don't have to keep thinking about it because all of your prompts are available the next morning.

        Sleep hygiene as it used to be called is also good establishing a routine. i.e you might need to eat a smaller lighter meal if you normally eat later so your body isn't using energy for processing that. Putting the electronics away earlier, have a shower clean up get things ready for the next day so your mind is being prompted that you're getting ready to sleep.

        As some of the others have said the only way to know for sure is to start the process of elimination, starting with the study, I tried to put it off thinking similar things and tried all the less intrusive options that i convinced myself would be better in my head, I was travelling constantly and attributed it to changing time zones every few weeks. and large swings of at least 6 hours.

        Same as pegasusx CPAP was a huge change and i can agree it's like night and day knowing what a proper nights sleep is, but you have to let someone work out what's going on, it also could be something else but you won't know till you get the facts.

        Best of luck with it

        • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 20:32

          Thank you toons for your thoughtful post and well wishes.

          Yes, the general consensus seems to be there are several avenues, starting with the sleep study, which I plan to do externally.

          I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it is a process of elimination, this thread and all the posters on it have really spurred me on to just get to the bottom of this. My work doesn't involve travel so it is not as disruptive and I can't necessarily attribute it to that, although it has been a source of much anxiety in the past (getting better now).

          I have no idea what a good nights sleep is, I haven't had one for ages. And to think, so many people need to rely on an alarm to wake them. My body is my alarm, and a very annoying one at that!

    • pegasusx on 26/12/2017 - 09:53

      This was the same for me. I foolishly ruled out sleep apena myself as I am very fit and not over weight and only snore occasionally.
      It was only by off chance I had other issues that I went for a sleep study and I was in the mid-high range. I had an AHI of 21 times where I would stop-start breathing. They recommended a CPAP machine but I put that off for 6 months as I didnt see how a supercharger to my lungs would help.
      I caved and tried one for a month and I will never look back. I felt clarity when I woke up instead of that usual mugginess (for 30 years I thought this was normal). I had a look at my charts and slept for over 7hrs+ without getting up for water or a walk around in an attempt to get back to sleep. This is just one possibility. But get yourself checked out and CPAPs do work if you are diagnosed.

      • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 18:53

        Thanks pegasus, all these stories making me feel I may have sleep apnea, and may have spent the last 10 years unnecessarily suffering, but never too late!

  • ajh on 23/12/2017 - 18:34

    I'm no expert and fortunately I haven't experienced this in your capacity.
    Do you have close friends or family? Try talking about what is bothering you. See if they can help and give you some rest periods.
    Try playing some sleep relaxing music, white brown 432-852hz music while you rest.

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 15:51

      Thank you, yes I have talked to friends and family about this both but it is often difficult to delve beyond the outer layer of issues. I have actually been to a psychologist for other anxiety issues which I think may be related.

      I will definitely look up the music and give it a go.

  • gasman70 on 23/12/2017 - 18:38
    +6

    A friend of mine has struggled for years with insomnia. A few months ago he went to see a 'sleep specialist' and was prescribed melatonin. He's slept very well ever since but does have the occasional night of unrest.

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 15:52
      +2

      I have tried melatonin before, it didn't help much but maybe the dose I took was too small. I will see my GP or a sleep specialist and give it a another shot.

      My body seems to be the best at adapting to medicines however and generally speaking any effects wear off pretty quickly. Thank you for your comment.

      • Amour on 26/12/2017 - 19:05
        +1

        Was it prescription melatonin or over the counter melatonin? There is a big difference between the two, and it could be worth trying the prescription melatonin if you haven’t already done so.

        • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 18:54

          Over the counter - it did seem to have some effect when I tried it last night, but will try and get a prescription now…

        • xShrew on 28/12/2017 - 13:50
          +3

          @dumdidum: Pharmacy student here - the OTC (homeopathic) melatonin is a placebo at best. If you do get a prescription doses in the 0.3-1mg range seem to be as/more effective than the 2mg dose of the product

          Best of luck!

      • bohn on 27/12/2017 - 11:13

        Definitely speak to your doctors rather than just choosing a dose yourself etc.
        I also wouldn't use it long term unless under medical direction.

        • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 18:55

          Nope, the plan is to get my sleep back to a state where I don't really need external aids..

      • meong on 28/12/2017 - 00:23
        +1

        3mg and 5mg melatonin are above the homeopathic dose that is allowed to be sold in Australia.

        I have purchased melatonins in the 3mg and 5mg from US eBay sellers…

        Based on friends from US, they would take 1-2 3mg capsules about 1 hour before going to bed.

        I usually just buy the 5mg melatonins. The good thing is that it's a sleep hormone that is used to help people with jet lags. Normally I would only need to take 2 nights in a row and my sleep hormone will be good on the 3rd night so I can sleep without taking melatonin.

        They are also sold in quick-dissolving tablets that will be absorbed really quick if you put it under your tongue.

        • dumdidum on 02/01/2018 - 13:39

          I've been taking 3x 3mg about half an hour before I sleep. It has definitely had an effect so I'll keep on taking them till I finish the bottle while I look at other remedies.

  • kahn on 23/12/2017 - 18:40

    Whatever you do, don't buy a bed like this.

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 15:54

      I also dislike clowns ;)

  • Worf on 23/12/2017 - 18:57
    +2

    You could try some sleep hygiene strategies… also worry and anxiety interfere with sleep and it can become a bit of a cycle where you anticipate difficulty falling asleep, causing worry, which interfere's with sleep and leading to further anticipatory anxiety.

    Some sleep hygiene strategies include don't clock watch, wake up at the same time each day, day time exercise, don't take your worries to bed (worry log), no caffeine after 4pm…

    Or you can just ask your gp for some benzos… diazepam or temazepam…

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 16:00

      Totally agree with your statement. I kid you not I have once spent 8 hours tossing & turning in bed before an interview the next day.

      All bad habits of mine; overthinking about things whilst trying to sleep, spending too much time during the day in my bedroom, clock watching, anticipatory anxiety, etc. To the extent now that I actually dread going to sleep each night.

      As above, I have tried waking up the same time each day, may do it again a bit more structured in combination with the other wonderful suggestions here.

      Benzos seem to prolong my initial period of sleep by an hour or two, but I don't think it's worth getting possibly addicted to it. My mind feels a little muggy afterwards, though again I think my body seems to adapt pretty quickly and it's not a big deal.

      Thank you :)

      • Worf on 25/12/2017 - 16:53
        +1

        yeah, benzos can be addictive, i'd go sleep hygiene +- melatonin first. If it's to the point where you are ruminating and dreading bedtime, i'd consider Psychology as an adjunct. You can get a GP referral for a mental health care plan for up to 10 medicare subsidised sessions per calendar year (there's often a small gap), or some workplaces have employee assistance programs where you can see a psychologist / counsellor for free. It would be ideal to resolve some of the situational stressors and maybe unhook or distract from those pesky cognitions.

        As for waking up at the same time everyday; having a regular wake up time should eventually help with having a regular sleep onset time. Body clocks can go out of rhythm when people have different sleep patterns on the weekend and have regular sleep hours mon-fri due to say, working office hours.

        Also, it's important to manage expectations with these behavioural changes… sleep hygiene strategies can lead to gradual improvements or some good nights mixed with some not so good nights.

        How much sleep should you get? there's actually a lot of inter-(varies person to person) and intraperson (changes within the same person across the lifespan - sleep more when you're a baby and a teen, less as you get older) variation and the best indication is how you feel when you wake up in the morning, if you wake up feeling refreshed, then that's how much you need… but if you wake up feeling tired and groggy, then, that would indicate that your quantity or quality of sleep was inadequate.

        Google "sleep hygiene" for some tip sheets, talk to your gp about options including psychology.

        • Lifeinflow on 26/12/2017 - 14:33
          +1

          I agree with what worf says about sleep hygiene and stress reduction via meditation and/or more formal psychological treatment. If you can, make your bedroom a technology free space and keep a notebook to write down your worries for reassessment the following day.

          Avoid benzos unless for a day or two once in a while. They are physiologically addictive rather than psychologically. After not so prolonged use you start to have withdrawal which will lead to even greater sleep and anxiety difficulties than you're starting with.

        • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:01

          Tried the 10 sessions already for another issue (most likely related to stressor / root cause of this issue), and will definitely look into this.

          Guilty also of having different sleeping patterns on weekends (however little good that does me) so again my discipline has let me down here. I did try waking at 7am every day for about four weeks before giving it in last time, but will take it up again.

          I wake up feeling tired every single day unfortunately, not an exaggeration. I think my body has just learned to cope (why?)

        • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:02

          @Lifeinflow: Unfortunately renting at the moment, so technology free zone is not possible with my bedroom, but will try for next best thing - i.e. not accessing technology inside but in the living room instead.

          Thank you for the suggestion.

        • Lifeinflow on 28/12/2017 - 17:50
          +1

          Depending on how severe your stress is, and whether you have any symptoms of depression as well, fatigue can be a normal reaction and only partially related to your direct sleep quality.

          I believe the 10 yearly psych sessions are per calender year so you should be able to get more sessions soon. If you can find someone who specialises in ACT therapy it can be particularly helpful for giving you tools to feel less impacted by stressors you can't directly change. Google "find a psychologist" for the official site that will help you find someone in your area and see their specialties.

        • Worf on 28/12/2017 - 23:52
          +1

          @Lifeinflow:
          Yes, subsidised psychology sessions reset every calendar year. You will need a gp mental health care plan, but that's easy.

          Making a behavioural change can be hard, and maintaining the change can be harder. Sigh.

          True re life in forms comment (above). sleep disturbance can be secondary to depression, this often comes with other physiological changes (appetite change, weight change, reduced energy, reduced attention). Depression is not the only thing that can cause these physiological changes and that's why it's always helpful to have medical input.

          ACT stands for acceptance and commitment therapy, it's a common type of intervention with a good evidence-base. Some consider it the third wave of CBT. Hard to prescribe a treatment without having a good conceptualisation of the problem, but there are certainly ACT principles which can apply to a variety of presenting problems with minimal risk of harm.

          Hang in there buddy!

        • dumdidum on 02/01/2018 - 13:46

          @Worf: Thanks Worf :) Bit of a busy new year but I'm compiling a summary of this entire thread and will be much more proactive in my approach going forward. I'm pretty sure my psych sessions have reset.

  • Clear on 23/12/2017 - 19:17
    +4

    +1 for Melatonin. I couldn't sleep due to high stress and frequent panic attacks. It was one of the things that helped me get better. All the off the shelf products from the chemist had no effect.

    You can skip the doctor and grab it from iHerb.

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 16:01
      +2

      Will try iHerb products, thank you for the suggestion

      • Clear on 25/12/2017 - 16:04
        +1

        I took 3mg 30 minutes before bed and it helped. Just don't go to bed at 12am if you have a 7am wakeup. I found that I had a shocking headache if I woke up too early.

        • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 16:07

          Thanks Clear, I am going to order tonight and look forward to trying it out. Also hear magnesium is worth a shot too as a sleeping aid.

        • Clear on 25/12/2017 - 16:10

          @dumdidum: It's possible as I was taking magnesium as well as other vitamins at the time. Wouldn't do any harm particularly if you have a deficiency.

    • realfancyman on 26/12/2017 - 00:54
      +1

      I have taken Melatonin since I was 8, on a 20mg dose now. Prescribed from the doctor. Can't sleep without it

      • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:04

        Hopefully don't have to take it long term, but I have read it is far less addictive than taking medicines as a treatment.

        • realfancyman on 27/12/2017 - 22:34

          I couldn't really tell you if it's addictive because I've never tried to get off it, so sorry about that. It is really expensive so that's a downside. My understanding of it is that some people take longer to generate Melatonin naturally which means you take longer to go to sleep. I don't know though if taking Melatonin pills makes you reliant on them, or if your bodies production remains uneffected. Something to ask your doctor about since you need a prescription for it anyways.

  • MeesusEff on 23/12/2017 - 19:18
    +3

    I used to have difficulty sleeping and now I've downloaded some meditation apps and ASMR. I find that it helps take my mind off my thoughts as I would just be focusing on what they say. And ASMR makes you all fuzzy 😄

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 16:03

      I tried a technique of counting backwards from 300 in multiples of 3, with the intention of you focusing enough but not too much on the problem at hand. Had mixed results, but I will look into ASMR, sounds interesting :)

      • MeesusEff on 25/12/2017 - 17:04

        Try it first with :https://youtu.be/IUDTlvagjJA , with headphones in. If you don't feel anything or don't like it then it's not for you haha

        • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 17:09

          Haha, will do, thanks again

  • Donaldhump on 23/12/2017 - 22:24
    +2

    This might sound crass and dirty, but if you are a male, try ……………, you will sleep well after that.

    • Clear on 23/12/2017 - 22:28

      Warm milk and a banana.

    • smuggler on 23/12/2017 - 23:33
      +1

      Prolong the foreplay with yourself. It results in a better experience and longer ejac period.

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 16:03

      Yes I am male and have tried, unfortunately did not find any long term lasting impacts haha

  • smuggler on 23/12/2017 - 23:32

    Get a referral to a sleep clinic. You might have OSA, CSA or just bad habits (bad diet, lack of exercise etc.).

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 16:05

      Yes, I think I will be going down this route in the not too distant future. After reading the comments in this thread, I must keep an open mind about what is causing this.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/12/2017 - 13:44

      before you go to sleep clinic make sure you understand the consequences of sleep studies, a bad result can impact your licence and your job. Some mining companies use sleep studies to get rid of employees with out paying them out.

      • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:04

        Did not think about this one, but it should be ok, I think it is worth the risk.

  • Diji1 on 23/12/2017 - 23:32

    Cannabis.

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 16:08
      +3

      Not sustainable long term for my brain or my wallet unfortunately ;)

  • AlienC on 24/12/2017 - 01:32

    I don't have any healthy solutions look at what time I am posting this but I tend to knock myself out with Ozbargain and whirlpool and other websites trying to help people and get help and I find it let's me sleep easy at night.. If the problem is a person or some other drama man then sorry mate I can't help you.. been there (profanity) that..

    Gym is also good if you are still able otherwise just find a nice activity to wear yourself out sometimes books work and is better than staying at your tablet or so I heard.

    The idea of a sleep clinic interests me although I have myself personally never tried it just read about it.

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 16:31
      +1

      Yes, I have tried gymming as well and am currently exercising every week day, I do this in the morning so that the adrenaline doesn't affect my sleep, but to no avail it does not seem to help much.

      I just don't seem to get tired browsing the internet or reading books, it's this crazy brain of mine which won't play nice. Could be other issues in my life which I am working on so fingers crossed in the new year I may find some resolutions.

      Thanks for your comment :)

      • AlienC on 25/12/2017 - 17:27
        +1

        All the best I hope you feel well and get better.

  • Findo on 24/12/2017 - 03:43
    -2

    See your GP, you might get lucky and walk away with a script for benzos

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 16:31
      +1

      I have some benzos already (fortunately or unfortunately), looking for a more long term solution…

  • sahh on 24/12/2017 - 09:01

    Also think about how to manage the stress in your life (figuring out how to sleep is probably just like treating the symptom not the issue).

    I also sometimes get nervous before a big day and have issues sleeping, I just close my eyes and keep imagining how smoothly the next day will turn out.

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 16:35

      Totally agree, not looking for a bandaid solution but to address and manage this comprehensively, can't say how I can go on like this.

      My brain seems to be my own worst enemy sometimes, just cannot control it from overthinking things

  • Tamtim on 24/12/2017 - 10:12

    Yes I've struggled with similar sleep problems. I went to see one of the sleep specialists at the Woolcock institute in Glebe, near Sydney uni. You need to go to several sessions, but I found it very helpful, and would recommend doing a sleep study there as well. You'll have to get a referral from the doctor so that you can claim some of it back from Medicare

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 16:38

      Is it CBT based?

      I think I will go to my GP and get a referral, it is quite close by to where I live as well so that is a bonus. A sleep study is one of the main things I was planning to do. Thank you for letting me know about your experience.

      • Tamtim on 26/12/2017 - 10:23

        Yes it was CBT with a sleep psychologist. I had anxiety problems that was keeping me awake at night, especially when I wake up in the middle of the night and can't fall asleep again. The sleep study showed I had some breathing issues too, which I had no idea about, so another specialist there was able to help with that too.

  • SlickMick on 24/12/2017 - 13:07

    I don't know about therapy, but I expect the main benefit will be good advice like you get here :)
    I know there are pills that help, but I haven't wanted to go down that path. (See your GP if you want to.)

    For me, it was just the realisation that I've done everything I can for that day, and churning my problems overnight was not going to help. Knowing that I'd have a more productive tomorrow with a good night's sleep was enough for me to relax and my sleep problem ended in a single night. Hence why I think the psychology side might be an answer.

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 16:47

      Yes, I have found this thread invaluable and OzBargain has always been full of helpful and caring people.

      I'm open to CBT as I've already tried it in a previous course for something related (anxiety) and it did seem to help. Just need to have better control over my racing thoughts at night.

      Thank you for your words.

  • 167448 on 24/12/2017 - 16:43
    +1

    You need workout is it health issue (your body function) or just mental (what you think it might be and the thinking causing more stress) or others.

    But dont do it alone, there are old family recipes, medical specialist, forum friends (like this one).

    There are many options in putting oneself to sleep properly - drinking milk before bedtime, clean shower at night (yes, some people only shower in the morning not night), scented fragrances (lavender are soothing for some people but causes dizziness for my missus), calming musics or music you enjoy (heavy metals tend to wake people due to the amounts of beats per minute and loudness which doesnt help but it might work for you if you enjoy those music. And importantly, alcohol should not be a remedy for sleep or illicit drugs (unless medically approved by doctors may be due to a certain conditions you have and not aware currently).

    Medical wise, go visit a GP, speak to family and friends that can recommend a good doctor to review. Personally, i suffer from sleep apnea and also a late sleeper (2-4am to bed). I believe its genetic, my mother is very skinny body build and she has sleep apnea. Sometimes she wakes up middle of night and cant go back to sleep.

    The other mental issue you need to monitor, you said when you think too much on stresses, you worry and cant go to sleep. Are you able to mind focus and put the thinking aside and come back tomorrow? Does that allow you to go sleep easier? Put it this way, everyone has problems and issues, whether you have it in your mind now and causing you anxiety or sleep deprivation, the problem or issue will still be there tomorrow. So why worry about it now when you can wake up fresh and tackle it tomorrow. This really comes down to mind focus and it takes years of practice. Meditation does helps.

    I'll end with, dont go alone. There are people out there willing to help or going through the same thing or been already. We are here to help each other as human beings.

    All the best!

    • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 17:24

      Thank you for your long and considered reply.

      I definitely think it is more a mental issue; a build up of bad habits, stressors and periods in my life when I had poor sleeping patterns, which has perhaps re-wired my brain in completely deleterious ways. I have poor focus when it comes to putting aside my thoughts during sleep and have suffered greatly for it. Despite my natural impatience I should really give meditation a chance and I know there are no quick fix solutions for such an ingrained problem as the one I have.

      My current GP is probably not the person I'd like to speak to about this, so I may seek out someone else as per your advice. I also have quite a few friends who are in the medical profession each with their own 2c worth. As above, I did not consider sleep apnea to be a possibility but realise I should remain open minded.

      Thanks again for your help, it is good to know on Ozbargain there are such kind people!!

  • dumdidum on 25/12/2017 - 17:25
    +5

    Merry Christmas to everyone, I really am so appreciative of all your replies as this issue has really started affecting my life to a great extent more and more as time passes.

  • chuderino on 25/12/2017 - 18:11

    I would address what is bothering you first with a professional.

    Then work on establishing good sleep hygiene again.
    You need to train/practice this, as it will take time.

    No stimulants after lunch
    Dark room
    cool room
    quiet room
    go to bed and wake up at the same time each day.
    Repeat

    I have found these supplements good, you will still wake at times, but you fall asleep again much easier.

    Redcon1 Fade Out
    The Delta Zone

    When you are back in a good pattern, then ease off the supplements.

    I found prescription sleeping tablets to be the absolute worst things to take as they are only very short term and I had big withdrawals.

    Create your plan and follow it.

    HTH

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 18:44

      Yes, I believe it is a root problem which I need to get to the bottom of.

      Sleep hygiene requires discipline which unfortunately I have been lacking of late.

      No plans to take benzos etc, thank you for the suggestion re: supplements, seems like I will have an arsenal to work with :)

  • jellykingdom on 25/12/2017 - 18:31

    I have mild sleep apnea and I'm only 30 and fit. So it does affect all sorts. In my sleep study there was a little girl and a baby even. So it's not just fat old men

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:06

      Haha, yes keeping my mind open now

  • Herbse on 25/12/2017 - 20:38

    Get a sleep test. then make changes

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:06

      Yes, overwhelmingly seems to be the first step as suggested by everyone.

  • [Deactivated] on 25/12/2017 - 21:10

    I've suffered from insomnia since I was 16. I find listening to someone softly breathing next to me soothing and it lulls me to sleep. Sleeping naked also helps too.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:07
      +1

      Working on this…already sleep mostly naked :)

  • voiletmay on 25/12/2017 - 21:17
    +1

    If I am in bed and I can't sleep after about 30 minutes as I am thinking so much, I go and lie on the sofa in the lounge room and turn on the tv really low. I try and find a fish documentary and magically it gets me to sleep. Because the volume is so low I concentrate hard to try and hear it, and it's the concentration on trying to hear that seems to make me go to sleep. Other kinds of documentaries don't work for me, it's gotta bed fish LOL!!

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:08

      Wow, that is very specific, I must download some old university lectures and give them a go :)

    • malouphix on 29/12/2017 - 11:20

      Other kinds of documentaries don't work for me, it's gotta bed fish LOL!!

      Nice! :)

  • 0xdragon on 25/12/2017 - 21:18

    See a GP, perhaps get a referral to see a sleep psychologist, and set consistent wake up times.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:14

      Thank you, yes this seems to be the consensus from everyone.

    • addicted on 28/12/2017 - 17:37

      Hi Guys, Found this thread invaluable for my wife who has sleep issues. So we went to GP and the GP said he has never heard of sleep psychologists before!

      Are there any you would like to recommend in Sydney north/west area and we will then ask GP to provide referral for those psychologists.

      Thanks

  • MessyG on 25/12/2017 - 21:35
    +1

    I think seeing a GP is a good start to rule out any underlying medical reasons for it. CBT (Cognitive Behaviour Therapy) and iCBT is showing some pretty promising results with insomnia - one of my friends is a fireman and he was really struggling with this (shiftwork and vicarious trauma of the job). He did the free online insomnia program at https://thiswayup.org.au/how-we-can-help/courses/managing-in… and found that really helpful. Meditation is good for sleep too - there's a free phone app called Insight Timer which has thousands (and tons for sleep too). Have a read up on sleep hygiene (although a lot of people on here have already suggested a lot of it).

    It depends on the severity of the condition though and the underlying causes. If no medical reason is found, it's helpful if the GP screens you for depression and anxiety and gets an idea of the severity of that. For mild cases you can get away with things like slow release melatonin and internet based CBT, and as it gets more severe the treatment becomes more intensive (like different medication and face to face therapy). And of course there are medical causes too all of which their own problems. Hang in there, this is a solvable problem in time.

    • dumdidum on 27/12/2017 - 19:16

      Thank you MissG, I guess I don't have a huge amount of faith in the GPs I normally go to, to really go the extra mile and help me with this problem. But I do think it has something to do with anxiety which I deal with on a daily basis, and depression, which I've had bouts of in the past.

      I really do hope it will be solved in time.

      • MessyG on 28/12/2017 - 13:47

        Working with a GP Is a bit of an art I agree. They are extremely time limited so what they can achieve in one session is quite limited. Generally their approach is to get you try a couple of things, and when that doesn't work, go back and tell them, they try a couple of things more, and when they don't work, maybe try more stuff or wind up with a referral. A good one wont keep charging you for followup of the same problem. It is a process and it can often be slow. I would definitely give iCBT a go if you think it may be anxiety related, try that link in my previous post - you can do it without a health provider overseeing it or with, and for insomnia it's free. Good luck, insomnia is awful.

      • Toons on 29/12/2017 - 15:19

        This is quite sad and understandable at the same time, finding one that you trust and have upmost faith in very hard.

        It took nearly being killed to find mine.

        So I know how good my Doc is he saved my life in the very literal sense and he has become my regular GP ever since. When i've had to go to specialists to have something checked out or when I ended up in hospital to have my appendix out, they know him by reputation and ask me questions about him to confirm I guess what they have heard or some who have had the pleasure of working with him or network with him can't speak highly enough of him. It's quite weird but reassuring to know he is a man at the top of his game and regarded so highly by his peers.

        I'm not sure if there is a barometer or metric for seeking out the ones who go the extra mile by rough location.

        I guess don't be afraid to ask some of the specialists you see in the future.

        Or even the clinics near by ask the receptionists who are the popular doctors who tend to spend more time with their patients getting things right the ones people are willing to wait en extra few days or a week to see depending on the severity not just popular because they prescribe them what they want.

        Remember you're always entitled to a second opinion. if you're not sure things were clear, they didn't quite get you and feel you're being pushed in a particular direction.

        • dumdidum on 02/01/2018 - 13:53

          Thanks Toon, my problem is slightly exacerbated by the fact that I've recently moved to a new area and so finding it difficult to locate a new GP. I've just visited the medical centre but would prefer one that runs their own clinic.

  • akoli on 25/12/2017 - 21:55

    I have a mind that doesn't switch off …lifetime of adhd …self managed …but for me headphones and I flick between different music….Marconi weightless …..kelly Howell brain massage …..Paul McKenna deep sleep ….and if they don't work there's something about the guy that does the spreaking on the headspace app….only a Sunday night I still struggle …..I have found that since I started working out every morning before work by the time I get home and got the house n kids organised I don't have much left…but I sleep soundly…..that's if it is stress and life related …if it's apnoea then a sleep study should give you some answers.

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