Thinking about installing one as it seems quite…cool.
Would love to hear your thoughts and experiences.
Which brands are good, Pros and cons etc..
Do Any of You Guys Use a Finger Print Door Lock?
drose1 on 16/12/2017 - 23:09
Last edited 17/12/2017 - 09:02 by 1 other user
Last edited 17/12/2017 - 09:02 by 1 other user
Comments
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There are ones that offer both the fingerprint and PIN option.
a quick search lead me to this one: https://www.bunnings.com.au/samsung-smart-push-pull-digital-…
granted, that samsung one is quite pricey compared to the other's that i've seen; however, the features it offers seems pretty good.
And yes, if you want a biometric door lock, make sure you get one with PIN option on it. The fingerprint reader becomes a bit gimmicky after you have to program a few people into it or remove a few people from it.
But that being said, as a locksmith, I always recommend electronic door locks. They are where the future is going. Keys are becoming a secondary item for securing buildings.
But as for recommendations on what one to buy, it all depends on your budget. You can buy $100 locks or you can buy $2000 locks. But I always say, go with the best that you can afford and that suits what you are trying to achieve.
I use Samsung electronic locks on my house and previous houses and have never had problems with them. For a consumer grade product, they work very well.
Thanks for the info.
SO which Samsung ones are you using?
Recommending the more expensive option!
I can see you know nothing about door locks. If you want $15 Bunnings door locks on your house Dij, go for it, if that’s all you think your stuff in your house is worth.
I recommend electronic locks because they are usually safer, easier to use, harder to bypass, have extra security features and blend well into today’s digital lifestyle and the price is usually about on par with most secure conventional locking systems. So, compared to what you get from an electronic over a conventional, it’s not the more expensive option.
But you know, keep on trolling ;)
@Diji1: Well, if anything, they would be getting less business if people started using electronic door locks.
@BlazinPast: Basically, yes. They are easy enough to fit yourself and I have never been called out for a lock out on an electronic lock. So I can say that by suggesting them, I am costing myself money in the long run.
I would certainly recommend an electronic system over a high security restricted key system.
A lot of the time when I do go out to fix locks, I can’t believe what people use to secure their house. I refuse to fit $15 Bunnings locks. It’s my reputation on the line. I fit that garbage tier lock because the home owner, like Dij, wants a cheap job. A week later they get broken into and burgled. Does the $15 door knob get blamed or the locksmith that fitted it?
@drose01: Sorry, I have been meaning to get back to you on this, but I cannot find the model number on my door lock. I had to get mine out of Korea. It’s a NFC/PIN type because, like I said before, the fingerprint reader was nice, but I found that the PIN was more widely used…
Edit: I found it…
Is that true? Are these electronic locks physically stronger than a deadlock?
I've wanted to go down this path but thought I'd be compromising security for convenience.
@SlickMick: I don’t know about “physically stronger” but they are less prone to other attack methods. These types of electronic locks are usually just retro fitted to existing setups, so they are not really different, but more of a electronic actuation over a manual action.
And I think these are as a minimum just as secure and usually more secure than traditional key in key way type locks…
Hello pegaxs.
Are there any of these electronic locks that don't have a manual knob inside?
My question is because my front door has a glass panel that could potentially be broken and then someone could simply unlock it by using the handle or open button.
It would be great if one of these could have a button that is a bit out of reach to unlock the door from the inside. If not then it will be normal keys for me for the time being.
Thanks.
@munecito: I’m not sure of your setup, but there are laws that govern what you can and can’t have in a house. While most people will just fit what they want anyway, and there is no “door lock police”, you have to think of safety when it comes to exiting the building in an emergency.
Locks, such as double dead bolts (key required either side to unlock) should not be installed. The last thing you want when you’re trying to escape is to try and locate your keys to open the door. As such, most of these electronic locks have built into them a system where by they can be isolated inside but will still operate manually in the event of an emergency.
The good thing with the electronic lock is that it can be moved to a location on the door that is out of reach of the window. But I guess it all comes down to just how big this window is and it’s location. If you were looking at better security options, I would maybe look at something to secures the window section, bars, mesh, etc, or getting a door that does not have the window section in it.
And for what it’s worth, locks on doors are mostly to keep opportunistic thieves out of the house. If someone wants in that badly, they will find another way. That being said, a good lock can be a great deterrent to would-be thieves.
@SlickMick: .
your locks are only as good as the person that installs them..
good locks + crap install = not very secure…
@Archi: Amen to that. The amount of home handyman installs I have gone out to and bypassed in about 5 seconds because of poor firment.
Sure, installing a lock is not a hard job, but installing it wrong or using the wrong option is too easily done, often resulting on little to no security.
@Diji1: Pegaxs clearly said he recommended buying within your budget but what he used was _______. How do you have an issue with his comment?
@AussieB: I replied to this a bit further down, but it's pretty simple. On the outside part, there is usually two terminals to touch a 9V battery up against. This is enough to power the unit to get you back inside and change the batteries.
But long before that, the system will warn you with different beeps and warnings to let you know that you need to change the batteries.
@pegaxs: thank you so much for taking your time to give me such an in-depth reply. I really appreciate it.
@pegaxs:
What about the Lockwood or what ever that is more expensive from Bunnings?
Are there ones at Bunnings you would use?I'm yet to be convinced the lock type or cost has made a difference to whether you get burgled or not. I don't imagine much of a middle ground for the average joe household.
- no one tries at all so it doesn't matter if it's actually locked or not (I left the car keys in my unlocked car a whole working week in the driveway!)
- the door has some sort of lock and is closed/locked so quick opportunists don't bother anyway
- or you get targeted in which case I doubt it matters (they destroy it, the door, or go via the window, etc)
Convenience yes. Security probably not. No more than saying my garden rocks are keeping the tigers away.
@dufflover: As an apprentice locksmith, I learned very quickly that locks are to keep honest people and opportunists out of your stuff. If someone wants in bad enough, they will get in.
I've fitted very expensive and very secure door locks to some places that I just look at the windows and think, what's the point of these locks. Or they have a big electronic super secure lock on the front door and the $15 garbage one on the laundry…
Your house is only as secure as its weakest point.
Pros and cons…
Fingerprint type;
Pro:
Very hard to lock your keys in the house.
Don’t need to fumble in the dark for your keys.
Cons:
Have to program in everyone that needs to use the door.
Can’t program it for a random person if they are not there. (ie: cleaner or visiting extended family members)
Cuts/dirt/gloves and other factors can reduce readability and impair functions.PIN type;
Pro:
Easy to program and use.
Can’t lock your keys in the house.
Can add a PIN without someone being there for later access
Con:
Have to remember your PINNFC type;
Pro:
Can set up credit/ID cards or phone to access.
Key can be carried in with credit cards
Con:
Can still lock your NFC card in the house.nice review. Seems to me PIN is a clear winner. So long as these devices are easy to setup temporary PINs so giving someone access once doesn't give them life time access :)
This is coming from the guy who had his card gobbled by an atm yesterday :(
Unless the fingerprint technology is a whole lot better than my mobile, I wouldn't consider it. I frequently try 1/2 dozen times before reverting to PIN.
NFC = key in more convenient form factor??
How about get one with all of the above as well as the traiditional key and lock one? So a burgler would have to sever the finger of the owner of the house, torture or find out his pin number by some means, find grab his key card(Which is usually on his person) to open the locked door and the actual key(s) to open the lock.
4 layers of security to go through just to open that one front door to your house….
OH actually, there's a 5th one I remember, a retinal scanner….so they would have to drag the person or pop out his eye ball out and yeah…..
lol.
How to bypass all those levels of security?
One good hard kick and most doors crack open.@slickmick: PIN, in my opinion/experience is definitely the winner. It’s the easiest and most reliable of all the methods. It has the same benefit that finger print has but is more reliable than the reader.
Most of the PIN types allow for easy input and deletion of temp PIN’s. Some will allow you to set times they can enter or put a time limit on expiry of the temp PIN.
And yes, NFC is just an electronic version of a key. You can still lock it inside the house. It’s better because you don’t need to insert it and its thin form factor. It’s just tap and enter.
Onto what @Zach said, It doesn’t work like that, unfortunately. You can get units that have 3 or even 4 ways to open them, but only one needs to be over ridden for the door to open. If you have one with a key, you may as well not have the electronic part, as you’re just reintroducing the same flaw back into the system you are trying to eliminate.
Oh and Zach, you forgot the DNA sample type. So you might have to get the victim to lick the lock as well… :D
@bigticket: Yep, as a locksmith, this is how everyone wants me to open their locked doors…
Feel free to come around and kick in my front door. Only if I can video you trying to do it and post it up here for a laugh. Most people who suggest “just kick it in” have never really tried to kick in a solid house front door. :)
My suggestion is, if your front door is that easy that a few kicks would open it, your items in that house are only worth as much as that front door.
IE: DONT use internal doors as a front doors on your house. Unless you’re Dij and think all locksmiths are out to rip you off…
or just go through a window
@pegaxs: Its not a matter whether you have a solid hard wood door. The purpose of kick is not break the door. It all about the weakest point in the system and that is the door frame and to some extent the material removed from the door to instal the door lock.
So, if your door frame is steel, you're safe. If its wood, I would have to thank you for drilling the hole for the latch that will act as a weak point. Even the grain of the door frame is in my favour. So yeah, I would be inside having a cold beer… and you're welcome to video that.
Have you ever kicked a door in so that we can say you have personal experience on this matter? or are you just speculating?
@bigticket: SO how do the cops break down a door if they're solid steel, when they're say raiding a house for drugs or whatever reasons they may have to break down the front door of a house?
@Zachary: They use a heavy hand held steel ram. I didn't say anything about a solid steel door which would weigh over 1/2 tonne if it existed. Usually doors for extra security are steel reinforced.
Anyway, the ram is directed in the vicinity of the latch and it just pops.
@bigticket: Oh well, then if cops have access to such a device, I'm sure a thief, who has enough motivation to break in would also carry one too and break down even a steel reinforced door…..unless such a device is not available for purchase unless you have a license of sorts, kinda like the break-in kit for tow truck drivers where they have a legitimate reason and license to be carrying one around…?
Oh solid steel doors don't exist? I thought they do…..I've seen them in movies and games, if all these kinds of locks exist in real life as they are shown in games or and movies as well, then surely a solid steel door also exists? …….pretty sure bank vaults would have a solid steel door to the cash they have hidden in their concrete safe, no? Pretty sure that's solid steel, unless it's just a light framework of a door and it's presented in a way that it looks solid, but isn't really all that solid if you say cut through the door….?
@Zachary: I don't think you can say that a solid steel door exists because you have seen it in movies and games. As I have commented above, a standard size solid steel door would weigh around 1/2 tonne, hence unlikely to be commercially available and unlikely to be used in a residencial premises.
The original post was with reference to residence security, and my comments are based on that premise, not what banks use. Yes, there is a lot of steel in a vault, but that is not the point.
what happens in the case of a blackout?
They are battery operated.
What happens when the batteries run out? Explained elsewhere in thread.
I know its a bit of an outdated reply but wanted advice about tips / pitfalls for electronic locks for the front door of an apartment. My understanding is that they must be 'fire rated'. Is there more to that - does the installing locksmith need to have any particular qualifications or issue some sort of certificate of compliance during installation. Also, any experience with this product https://www.carbine.com.au/product/electronic-leverset-3-in-… which I've been recommended? Thanks for all your tips above.
Not 100% sure of the Fire rating of these locks. You may be able to research them on the internet. Go to the lock manufacturer’s website and see what they say. All of the ones I have fitted are mechanical in operation from the inside, so, even without power, they work like a regular deadlatch.
A few things to be aware of, is that mounting some locks can cause the fire rating of the door to change if it requires holes to be drilled.
Another thing to consider, that being on an apartment, you might want to check with your strata management and your landlord if you are renting.
As for qualifications via a locksmith, no, it’s just another lock and installs the same as a regular mechanical lock.
@pegaxs: thanks for that. The documentation suggests it is fire rated and the strata are going through it now. I wasn't aware of the drilling and affecting compliance as I'm getting mixed response from different locksmiths. Some are saying no problem while others are saying they've had problems with fire people asking them to be taken down once installed.
look at the kwikset Kevo 2. Basically like keyless entry on your car.
Thanks. they seem good. are you using it yourself?
No, but I'll buy on the next Amazon sale. They are the best solution on the market.
They did. All metal internals now. Basically addressed all the issues from that video.
get 1 that can unlock by having your phone in proximity
Yeah, that's something I'd consider. Any exmaples?
August smart lock. I have one waiting to install and try but the garage door hasn’t got a deadbolt. Gotta get that fitted first!
and leave the backdoor open in case you run out of charge or phone is lost or stolen.
Do people still leave spare keys hidden around yard? That's not going t be so easy with these technology solutions.
I reckon PIN is the way to go, and tattoo pin code to your forearm
Yes..
What happens when there is a black out and you're trying to get into your house?
Backup key?
Kinda defeats the purpose?
unless the backup key is hidden in a fake rock on the front porch
They’re powered by batteries.
As Chris has said here, domestic ones are powered by batteries…
InB4: batteries go flat!!
If the batteries go flat, there is usually an external jumper point that you connect a 9v battery up against and it’s enough to get it to work. They usually give you lots of indications that they need batteries changed long before they go flat.
Spare battery near front door. At least you can probably eventually find a 9v battery to get in if your spare has gone flat.
@SlickMick: I would rather leave a battery outside than a key.
And it’s easier to find an all night servo selling batteries than it is to find a locksmith at 2am…
@pegaxs: The one i have the battery are placed on the inside. so you cant change the battery without un-locking the door. i tested it and from the 1st time it beeped to say low battery it was about 2 and a half months until the battery was completely dead. And that was with using the door a few times a day everyday. so if you went on holidays for example, it would last even longer
@tight-a55: All the ones i have fitted, the batteries are on the inside. But of all the ones i have fitted, there has always been an external set of contacts for a jumper battery (ie: 9V) to be used to get you back into the house to change the batteries.
My door gets opened at least twice a day and runs on 4x AA batteries. This typically lasts me about a year. I use Eneloops, cause what sort of OzBargainer would i be if i didnt? :D
@pegaxs: ah! i must have a cheapie then as there is nothing on the outside. just the screen and the key hole (kinda defeats the purpose if you have to carry a key). this is the one i have https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/210836
@tight-a55: Yours has the key over-ride. So I'm guessing that they didn’t include external jumper points as you can just use it as a normal key lock to open if the battery is flat.
Leave a spare finger under the doormat.
Hate it when I lock my fingers in the house. :D
They run off batteries … of course then you have the "what if the battery is flat?" problem
You get a "low battery" warning a long time before it goes flat.
(Source: can hear the neighbours front door lock complaining every time they come home for the past fortnight)
Then you change the battery and open the door :p
They are battery feed.
I considered a fingerprint lock, but couldn't find one that seemed solid enough that had suitable features to enable it to be easily operated when (not if) the fingerprint didn't work.
Anyhow, what I went with was this:
https://www.lockweb.com.au/en/site/lockweb/lockwood-products…
Available at a number of places eg:
http://www.smarthome.com.au/lockwood-z-wave-keypad-deadlock.…
https://capitalsmarthomes.com.au/products/lockwood-z-wave-di…No fingerprint, but I wasn't that fussed with that because the lock is on the front door and the reader - even if covered by a lid - would get dusty and have issues reading reliably. This one is definitely not cheap, but it works well. It also links in with my home automation system (I have Zwave but you can also get a zigbee version) so I can remotely program it, setup temporary access codes, unlock the door using my mobile as I approach the house, lock/unlock the door remotely, etc…. Isn't quite as cool as using a fingerprint, but it works reliably and we don't need a physical key or card (although there is a physical key as a backup).
Replacing the key with a card doesnt seem ideal. one of the benefits of having fingerprint/proximity unluck feature is that I don't have to take anything out of my pockets to unlock the door.
Sorry - the first link went to the wrong model. This is the right link: https://www.lockweb.com.au/en/site/lockweb/lockwood-products…
Can unlock the door with pin code, so no card or key required. If you have a home automation system, can also setup a scene so could use something like google assistant/siri to unlock the door via a voice command.
The one in first link doesn't have a keyhole at front, only inside. What's with that?? Looks better than other 2 though
I have been using these on our front and back doors for a few years now,
https://www.schlage.com/en/home/products/BE365PLYFFF.html
Good solid locks, easy to program, you cam also program in temporary pins for tradesmen or visitors.
Got mine from Amazon in the US, keep an eye on them for when they price drop them to less than $100.00.
So isn't it a flaw that the door/door knob is covered in fingerprints from your hand for a fingerprint reader?
Kinda. Yes, a thief could use a piece of tape to lift the fingerprint, then use a mist of superglue to create a positive print that in turn could be used to fool some fingerprint readers. Takes a while, but can be done. Again, it depends on the reader as well. Most people wanting to break into your house would, however, find a brick and smash a window.
A lock with a pin can be an issue as the smudges on the numbers can give an idea as to what numbers, if not order, make up a pin. But many locks allow you to use a random number before and/or after the pin that makes that less of an issue.
Yeah my Samsung one requires random numbers before
When you lost your fingers . How can you open your door ???? lol..
You mean after meeting those kind of folks that it is recommended that you count your fingers after shaking hands with them? :)
We have an electronic lock that does both PIN numbers and RF card; works with our MYKIs. They work really well, and it means you can remove any PINS/cards when we don't want certain people to have access anymore.
There is a Samsung one you can get that has PIN, RF cards and lock over ride. I would recommend this because you can lock the door/open the door even when the lock itself fails.
whats the model of the one you have that works with myki?
Similar to this one.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/samsung-smart-keyless-deadbolt-d…
This is the one with the key as well.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/samsung-keyless-voice-guided-dea…They aren't a cheap option but very convenient. I don't think they would be great out in the weather but they work well for our alcove.
Thanks, will check them out
@JimmyF: There are a number of options out there, but it is pretty rare to get ones with both PIN and card, and rarer still to get ones with the key lock as well. We are probably going to bite the bullet and get the more expensive one to replace our current one because I am concerned what would happen if the lock had a catastrophic failure and I couldn't get the door opened. I will move the current one to be between the garage and the internal door - unless someone in the family wants to snaffle it.
@try2bhelpful: yeah, you always need a 'backup' plan into the place for sure! If no key, then at least a back or side door that you can get in
I think the main problem with the majority of the digital locks, is that they're not dead bolts. If someone finds another way into your house it makes it a lot easier to walk out the door with your TV.
I would definitely be more comfortable if it could be opened from inside by a key in case of a fire / emergency.
Just to be clear, this has a deadbolt not a key lock on the inside, i.e. this is not a double deadlock. There is a manual over ride switch but th cannot be locked off,
The manual, to give people an idea on these.
https://2ecffd01e1ab3e9383f0-07db7b9624bbdf022e3b5395236d5cf…
This one can be unlocked with the Mi Home app.
Xiaomi Mijia Sherlock M1
Can be opened with a key, app, or wireless tag.
https://www.banggood.com/Xiaomi-Mijia-Sherlock-M1-Intelligen…But you need a double deadbolt(key on both sides).
May work with this one:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lockwood-Square-Paradigm-005-Dou…Maybe I'm just paranoid but I'm not keen on my home being opened by an app. I'm concerned about hacking concerns.
None of the companies making these devices have a reputation in secure software or Internet-connected 'anythings'.
E-lock hacks are commonly publicly released, and agencies would no doubt be picking these locks as zealously as they have been at compromising the physical ones we (have until now) depending on for decades.
The difference with these is that they are both poorly designed and poorly implemented, so can be attacked by anyone who can 'find a hack'/or design one (whether or not they release/share it).
A recent Bluetooth door opener I used had both android and iOS store-approved apps, what appeared at forst glance to be reasonable security, and English instructions. Thing was all the passwords were easily circumvented at the application and the network layer. On top of that, the radio's security was defeated with the most rudimentary of checks as well.
And the problem with the internet-enabled ones is not just this, it is that the geolocation is literally advertised/easily found on the interwebs: so someone around the world can pay (or be paid) to partner with local crooks nearer to you, for the maxiumum win!
Even buying a brandname lock can get you into trouble.
@zerovelocity: Kind of another reason why I paid extra and went with Lockwood (https://www.lockweb.com.au/en/site/lockweb/lockwood-products…) - they have a decent reputation, the lock itself was solidly built, and security is way more effective than my old lock - mainly because I had no idea how many people out there had copies of the keys to our old front door. My wife was continually handing out keys to neighbours and friends. As a bonus, I no longer have to go to Bunnings every few months to get more copies cut.
If people want to break into our house, they can by simply smashing a window like they can do in almost any house (many break ins I understand are done by low-lifes picking up something heavy outside a house and using that to break a window). The lock is a deterrent, not an impenetrable barrier.
@PlasticSpaceman: Yes the online/radio ones are the most vulnerable.
Those Lockwood ones mostly suffer due to the key being a std lockwood, lock-pickers open them for breakfast like cans of baked beans.
@zerovelocity: Would agree with Lockwood, but then again the lock is a deterrent not the ultimate form of protection from a break-in. Our front door is not the entrance to a bank vault. :-)
If someone really wants a secure lock, then I'd suggest something like an Abloy Protec or EVVA MCS that are bump/pick/drill resistant, but again I suspect if anyone was going to pick our lock it would be a local locksmith because I've asked them to do it for some reason. The local criminal element will simply smash a window.
A big advantage to the 'smart' lock is that you can get alerted if the door is unlocked. Again, it's great to have a really secure lock but if someone forgets to lock it on the way out it's pretty useless. A lot of robberies are opportunistic - people walking past cars and houses, trying doors to see if they are open…..
@PlasticSpaceman: Exactly, nothing's perfect, ever. The convenience of a combination over a physical key can certainly be worth it.
Just NOT if it connects to any devices ;-)
Note that a dead bolt is basically a locking mechanism where turning the lock cylinder is required to be moved to open the lock as opposed to ones using a spring (eg the sorts of locks that can be opened with a piece of card). Many so-called deadbolts are a combination of the spring loaded mechanism and a separate bolt. Some deadbolts also can be locked with a key on the inside. This I believe is what is called "a bad idea". Yes it can make it harder for a thief to make off with your stuff once they've broken in via a window, but on the other had I'd prefer to risk that compared with me or my family being locked inside my house during a fire and finding it hard to get out…. Would you want to have use your car key to open your car door once you are inside the car? :-)
I got a Samsung Eizo from Amazon almost a year ago. About USD350. Unanimously voted the most useful home improvement by everyone in the household.
we've got this one: https://www.bunnings.com.au/samsung-keyless-voice-guided-dea…
Found it very useful/convenient. Much easier to unlock door when hands are quite full. Can give family temporary password to swing by when you are not home.
Battery lasted about a year, it warns you that the battery is low via voice.
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Yes.
But I opted out of fingerprint types for NFC/pin type. I find the PIN types to be better for giving access to others when they need it. Finger print ones need to have the person present and to remove that user can also be a pain.