Old lady asked to move out during Xmas season (but end of fixed-term lease) - possible retaliation from Property manager

EyyBanane on 05/12/2017 - 09:35
Last edited 05/12/2017 - 09:38

Hello all,

I'm here for some advice.

We live in an apartment complex and one of our neighbors is an old lady. She is into her seventies, and living alone.

She is going through a difficult phase of her life. She had a concussion last year and was in hospital for a month followed by a divorce and she had to move out from husband's estate to this small apartment. Due to her condition, she wanted to move into a retirement village, but her application is still in queue. So she apparently paid a 'relocation consultant' 3k to find her a house for rent in the beginning of this year. And did they find her this single bedroom apartment, for 465 a week (which is higher than prevailing rent at this area).

She signed a fixed term lease until beginning of Jan 18.

During her stay, she has had a few issues with the apartment such as TV socket in the apartment not working, dryer broke down etc., and she complained to the property manager lady about these. They were hesitant to fix these, but she has pushed it through finally resulting in them fixing those. Two days ago, she had a problem with her wardrobe door not closing and she complained to the property manager again, and was outright told to fix it by herself.

She approached Fair trading for advice and they asked to send a formal letter to property manager and communicate to them about the conversation she had with Fair trading.

Two days ago, the property manager waited until 6 PM, and sent a her a text to check her mailbox, and in it was a termination letter for her to move out in 30 days (which is also apparently the exact day her lease ends).

She was in absolute shock from evening, as she really doesn't want to move as she was planning to live there until she gets a position in the retirement village. Also, the timing couldn't be worse, as it would be very difficult for her to find a house to move in immediate after the Xmas shutdown. And she believes that the property manager has done this in retaliation.

I was worried that she would black out as she was trembling while talking about this and on the verge of tears. We stayed up with her a bit to console her, and really want to help her out. She will be consulting an advocate today, but I want to seek advice from anyone here who has gone through similar experience in the past.

What are her options?

1) There is no legal standing for her here as her contract is ending. Move out on first week of Jan

2) Send a letter back to the owner/property manager requesting for at least an extension of 1 month considering her old age and the timing, so she gets ample time to find a house and move out.

3) If the house owner doesn't agree to the above, do not move out and go to the tribunal hearing when house owner files the complaint and explains her situation and show evidence of previous communications with the property manager and above letter.

TLDR;
Old lady asked to move out from rented house at the end of fixed term lease where she was expecting an extension of contract, that too immediately after Xmas season. Possible retaliation from Property manager about complaints raised during tenancy. What are the options?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • brokenglish on 05/12/2017 - 09:43
    +1

    Where is her family T_T

    • EyyBanane on 05/12/2017 - 09:46

      I haven't asked her. But looks like she doesn't have any immediate family members.

  • dasher86 on 05/12/2017 - 09:49
    +1

    Too much hassle from one person for a short term lease.
    I understand big break downs - antenna, dryer etc.
    Wardrobe door - really?
    Owner probably thinks she'll complain about every little thing.

    • EyyBanane on 05/12/2017 - 10:13
      +2

      I get that, and I am an owner myself. But you have to sometimes take into consideration the human element. Besides, I have always fixed issues whenever tenants reported them.

      And may be, she was used to living life large in an estate of her own, who knows?
      May be, she expected they would fix all such issues considering she was paying a premium?

      In any case, for god's sake, she is an old lady and the property manager / owner should cut her some slack!

      BTW, it is a one year lease and she was ready to stay there as long as she has to.

      • dasher86 on 05/12/2017 - 10:18
        +3

        you might be able to appeal to the owner but the property manager probably not - (they're probably used to hearing all excuses under the sun and couldn't care less).

  • Seraphin7 on 05/12/2017 - 09:55
    +3

    In terms of your options, number 2 is an obvious choice.

    Beyond that, I would recommend taking whatever advice is possible from the various tenant assistance services available, but I certainly would not recommend refusing to move out. This is going to cause all sorts of problems down the road.

    We stayed up with her a bit to console her, and really want to help her out.

    You could always put her up for a bit …

    • EyyBanane on 05/12/2017 - 10:17

      Yep, we offered that to her. As a last resort, she would have to put all her furniture in storage.

    • HighAndDry on 05/12/2017 - 10:40
      +5

      This is going to cause all sorts of problems down the road.

      This is one of the few cases where it likely won't: The only thing the old lady has to worry about is getting into a retirement home, that's really the literal end game. There's nothing else to really think about - I mean, she's not applying for any other rentals, doubt she's going to be applying for any kind of credit, etc.

      • Seraphin7 on 05/12/2017 - 11:49
        +3

        I hear what you are saying, but if the retirement village continues to be delayed for whatever reason and she is attempting to gain access to other private rentals, that's where the problems begin.

        In these sorts of circumstances, things can go off the rails very quickly. Next thing you know, the person in question starts being shuffled around family and friends arrangements, government housing, "off the books" accommodation, the retirement village can't make contact, etc., etc. Downward spiral.

        I would advise that you need to make sure you don't do anything that might jeopardise access to future rental accommodation.

        • HighAndDry on 05/12/2017 - 12:14
          +4

          Definitely. Sorry I think I mentioned it in another comment further down, didn't think to put it into this comment too. So long as possible eviction/breach of lease doesn't affect her current retirement home application and she gets in - it's a non-issue.

        • Seraphin7 on 05/12/2017 - 12:28
          +1

          @0blivion: Fair enough.

  • toniyellow on 05/12/2017 - 10:04
    +2

    It sounds like a bad situation but I think a lot of it comes back to the dodgy 'relocation consultant' that put her there. When she signed a fixed term lease that ended in Jan they should have highlighted there would be a possibility this would mean she would have to move out at Christmas time?

    If the property manager has given appropriate 30 days notice I don't think she has many options. She can try sending a letter, nothing to lose. But purposely overstaying and waiting for eviction to get extra time sounds like it will do more harm than good. She probably used the relocation consultant and accepted the above market rent because she had no rental history after the divorce and was having trouble getting a place? Getting evicted is going to make that even harder.

    Retirement villages also are quite predatory, so if she has been taken advantage of by some 'relocation consultant' already, she should be very careful when shopping for a retirement village. Perhaps she will be best not to rock to boat anymore and just find a new, hopefully cheaper place. This place still might give her a reference because they want to be rid of her.

  • itsdanthaman on 05/12/2017 - 10:09

    check the notice period. At least in QLD its 2 months notice or end of lease - whichever is later

    if she moves out after the lease expires, she would give 2 weeks notice

    • EyyBanane on 05/12/2017 - 10:19

      Yep, done that. NSW says 14 days.

      • itsdanthaman on 05/12/2017 - 14:03

        just checked, 30days if within fixed term lease, 90days if outside the lease. That sucks, but i see theres a couple more favourable rules over QLD, such as being able to move out anytime (with 14days notice) if the house is put up for sale & you werent told of the plans when you entered the agreement, whereas QLD you only have this option in the first 2 months of the tenancy. Ive been caught out 2 rentals in a row over this issue. If the lady wanted to be difficult, the eviction notice must allow another 4 days on top of the 30 days if its mailed

        And also, why the hell does she need to be paying over $400 for a roof over her head? The last town i lived in, you could get something resembling a mansion for that coin. Why doesnt she move to a country town?

        • EyyBanane on 05/12/2017 - 14:30

          NSW fair trading says this.

          At the end of the fixed term
          If you want to end your tenancy when the fixed term period of the agreement is due to run out, you will need to give at least 14 days' notice. This notice can be given up to and including the last day of the fixed term.

        • itsdanthaman on 05/12/2017 - 19:59
          +1

          @gentlecrack: sorry thought we were talking about landlord rights against her

  • HighAndDry on 05/12/2017 - 10:19
    +1

    So she apparently paid a 'relocation consultant' 3k to find her a house for rent

    Wtf - $3k is a month+ of rent in itself!

    But as for the lease:

    She signed a fixed term lease until beginning of Jan 18.

    I mean, what did she think this meant? Retaliation or not is irrelevant here. She's on a fixed term lease, they can ask her to vacate.

    She was in absolute shock from evening, as she really doesn't want to move as she was planning to live there until she gets a position in the retirement village.

    Shouldn't have signed a fixed term lease that ended so soon then. You can always move out of a fixed term lease early (worst case scenario is you keep paying for a while longer) but you certainly don't get to unilaterally decide to stay longer. That's inherent in the literal name "fixed term".

    EDIT: Actual advice

    This is slightly scummy, but honestly the tribunal is not going to force a lady of her age to move out, during the Christmas-New Year holiday period, not to mention the process itself will go over until after that period because they have holidays too. So she really doesn't have to do anything: Just hurry up and find that retirement home.

    How much more time does she need? If it's a few months, she can just stay in and really not do much at all. If it's longer, then she should probably try to find another place ASAP anyway.

    • EyyBanane on 05/12/2017 - 10:25

      I don't know what she meant and she definitely is NOT in the right mindset to take such questions. I am guessing the relocation consultant might have told her that she could extend the contract upon expiry or continue as is after one year.

      • HighAndDry on 05/12/2017 - 10:29

        Edited my comment, but TL;DR is this: She can relax, she's not going to be evicted anytime before the end of the Xmas-NY period because 1. she's old and frail and has nowhere to go, and 2. it's the holiday season, and 3. the tribunal themselves have holidays.

        She does need to find that retirement home though, because this is a short-term solution only (and of course, make sure that any eviction proceedings WON'T affect her retirement home application - I have no knowledge on that front and if it did, that'd be rather counter-productive).

    • pencilman on 05/12/2017 - 11:56
      +4

      Having been on the 'other side', what 0blivion said re the Actual advice is true.
      The tribunal will side with the tenant, esp if she old, frail and has no where else to go over the Xmas/NY perid.

      So she can complain to the tribunal and ask to have the case heard.
      With Xmas and NY this will take about 3-4 months, and will cause a lot of frustration and expense to the owner……..

  • Gronk on 05/12/2017 - 11:46
    +2

    So first up I'd be checking the laws and regulations in your state regarding when a landlord or agent can end a tenancy outside a fixed term agreement, because depending on the circumstances there are legal grounds for an owner / agent to do so - such as if they intend to move in themselves or allow an immediate relative to move in to the property or if they wish to sell it.

    The letter from the agent should specify their reasoning for terminating the tenancy and also define a notice period (28 days?), if it doesn't then I'm not sure if they would be able to enforce it - I'd be checking with VCAT or whoever the equivalent is in your state.

  • ShannonN on 05/12/2017 - 12:09

    Find her a cheaper rental unit? Help her move? over 400 per week for a apartment is insane, must be some 1 yr old multi story 3 broom thing for that even in Sydney?

    • HighAndDry on 05/12/2017 - 12:18

      Problem is, this is an old lady who's on a fixed income (not working, government pension or super) has apparently no assets, no one to act as her guarantor, and who any tenancy tribunal will side with even if she burns the property down.

      Effectively I'm amazed anyone rented to her in the first place, and I certainly wouldn't think it easy to find another one.

      • ShannonN on 05/12/2017 - 12:22

        You are correct, however if she can afford 2000 a mth on a pension shes doing it far better than I am (pensioner) She is divorced so MAY have a tidy settlement money wise?

        • Well Wasted on 06/12/2017 - 09:58

          MAY…? she gets 40% of everything according to defacto law… that's without going to court.

  • smashed on 05/12/2017 - 12:36
    +3

    In my opinion..

    Unfortunate for the lady buy she shouldn't have any special privileges.
    The owner should be fully entitled to not extend the lease, that is the whole point (either side can choose not to renew).
    Besides, if she is being ripped off then she should easily be able to break even in the long run.

  • SharedSugar on 05/12/2017 - 18:38
    +3

    If she isn't already, it would be really nice of you to help her register for myaged care and set up an assessment. If she is frail she might be able to access government services that could make living alone and in the community easier while she waits for residential care. She may not be able to find aged care accommodation in the near future.

    • red-hot on 05/12/2017 - 19:54

      DO THIS ^^^^ register her for myagedcare ASAP.

  • [Deactivated] on 06/12/2017 - 08:31
    -4

    Might be time for Christmas Bikies to pay a visit to the real estate -property manager's office
    Its amazing what you can get done in summer for a cold carton of beer

  • Speckled Jim on 06/12/2017 - 08:45
    +1

    Have her move to Tassie. Even in the cities she'll halve her rent.

    • Well Wasted on 06/12/2017 - 09:54
      -4

      over 70 years old… are you keen on moving states on your own in your 70's? tool…

      • Speckled Jim on 06/12/2017 - 17:39
        +2

        Lots of people choose a move to Tassie in their autumn years.
        But let's not allow that indisputable reality a look-in, eh?

        70, 80, whatever. Nobody's expecting her to crawl south and swim the strait.
        Tool.

        • Well Wasted on 07/12/2017 - 08:03
          -2

          are you keen on moving states in your seventies? alone…? with no help… you won't even move out of your folks home 'til you turn 40… empty toolbox.

        • Speckled Jim on 07/12/2017 - 08:44

          Me? Not about me. About some adult lady who'd be alone whether she lived somewhere expensive or not. What's the upside of staying put?

          So I'll take that as your capitulation, given your ad-hominem retreat.

          Thanks for the lulz — given your nonsensical argument, username checks out.

  • Well Wasted on 06/12/2017 - 09:52
    -1

    1… people only need one roof to keep the rain off their stuff. you are lining the pockets of greedy bastards when you pay rent… they do not care… about your personal life. they are not there to help you… you are helping them.

  • Laninchris on 06/12/2017 - 10:44
    +2

    Have her call back Fair Trade and quote whatever reference number they have her after her initial communication. Tell them what has happened and ask for advice.

    They may be able to refer her to a dispute mediator/state funded counsellor/legal aid/senior citizens support network or what not.

    The foundation of our society and our culture- whatever industry you’re dealing with- is a giving everyone a fair go, topped off with a healthy dose backing the battler. I would find it hard to believe that, even with a fixed term contract, she could be forced out after she reported the Property Manager.

    Tell her the squeaky wheel gets the oil so start ‘squeaking’ everywhere- even try her local MP. Send her to his/her local office and ask the MP to offer support or intervene on her behalf.

    I work in HR Managament and if, as an example, an employee with a bad back complained to us and requested a number of ‘accommodations’ (different chair, OT to come in and set up their work station, relocation to another branch for shorter commute time etc etc etc) and we refused some of those accommodations or made it ‘hard’ - as the PM did with the old lady’s wardrobe door issue- the employee could could complain to the relevant body/board/commission. If we were then advised of this complaint and we then chose to reduce the employees hours (or make them redundant) any legislative of protective body can and will make a direct cause-and-effect link between the two actions (their complaint and our ‘redundancy’ timing).

    We are falling over ourselves these days to be politically correct, and discrimination (have her argue that, because she is old and frail, she couldn’t fix the ‘little things’ herself and HAD to ask for help, so now they are kicking her out for being elderly) and bullying (she complained and is now being retaliated against/unfairly targeted) should be the new key words in her vocabulary.

    And if none of the above works- call Today Tonight :)

  • EyyBanane on 06/12/2017 - 12:34

    Thank you all for the advice. This has really been helpful.

  • sage26 on 06/12/2017 - 12:55
    +1

    While I understand the old ladies predicament and everyone sees the landlord as being the baddie, it's not their role to provide social services to an elderly tenant. The tribunal will still see it that way though.

    People need to take personal responsibility too - if she knew it ended in Jan why didn't she enquire about renewing it earlier rather than passively leaving it? The agent isn't her caretaker to drive that process for her but that's another issue altogether.

    I can imagine from the property manager/landlord perspective that the old lady might be calling them fairly regularly. Are all the items the landlord's responsibility to fix? For example, the wardrobe door - is it a built in or the tenant's own wardrobe? Was the antenna actually broken or did a 70+year old have problems dealing with setting it up? (not the landlord's issue).I know I frequently get calls from my 70+ year old parents saying that something or other is "broken" but it's usually not, they just don't know how to operate it properly :)It's always interesting to hear the full story.

    I heard a story this week about a tenant who called the managing agent demanding they send out an electrician because the property had no electricity. It turned out there was a blackout in the area! People like that won't be offered a renewal, on a practical level they're too much hassle but they will place the blame with the landlord/agent when in reality it may not even be their responsibility.

    • Well Wasted on 07/12/2017 - 08:19
      -4

      two pink and grey galahs took out my T.V. antennae… (neighbour saw it happen) as a tenent in a rental, i'm not allowed on the roof to try and fix… should i get the real estate to fix it? (profanity) oath… i just pulled the handle off a kitchen cupboard… i don't own it… i pay rent to use it and it's (profanity)… should i get the real estate to fix it? the washer in the kitchen tap leaks… wasting water i pay for… should i pay to fix someone else's property investment? they already get my rent… real estate agents are worse than fleas on a dog… and about par with a used car salesman.

  • [Deactivated] on 08/12/2017 - 09:09

    Nearly a third of new houses in QLD are now bought by Overseas investors.
    Don't expect anything from offshore investors/landlords
    Think Youself lucky and get out there and fix it Lazy Aussie.

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