So I'm looking to upgrade, move to something more practical and a bit more serious. Except I like driving manuals (and they're a dying breed) and I'm also looking for something RWD or AWD (and those apparently only come on more expensive models).
And apparently impossible to find a good combination that have both - unless you move up to something like a BMW. Which I don't want to do both for cost, cost of service, and reliability long-term.
Any suggestions or ideas?
180B
120Y ;)
lack of IRS
200B ftw
A 180B with 20 more mistakes.
New less than $30k (no in-joke intended), or used around maybe $20k? That's rough budget, not looking to spend too much on it.
I'd say a manual VF SS/SS-V/SS-V Redline. Make sure it's a VF model and not VE.
Very well made cars, seriously. All the extras too
The VF is the only Australian car I that I like. It's actually a nicely designed and built car with nice interior. The only thing missing is Xenon lights.
All other Australian made cars (even when new) had rubbish build quality and just felt cheap.
Got any wagons in stock?
@Spackbace: I know, but you might have a second hand in stock ;)
PM me your stores URL, I'll see if there's anything I fancy.
Still looking to update my old Senator, but it just won't die! :D
@rompastompa: I hear you. I'm making the move from a Mitsu Verada to a MY15+ Calais V; but the Verada NEVER has problems.
@Spackbace: KL Ei here. Exterior is pretty dated, but everyone who hops in their first time says they love the interior. I'm still a sucker for the wood grain haha.
toyota 86
Nissan Skyline 370gt coupe manual. Nice looking car.
It's going to be hard to find a practical, RWD, manual, Japanese sedan.
It depends what you define as practical though.
The cars mentioned fit the Japanese/RWD/AWD sedan… I wouldn't call them practical though.
If you want a powerful, value-for-money, practical, RWD manual sedan…. get a Commodore SS.
How is the Commodore any more practical than a WRX, other than simply being bigger.
because bogan v8
So all Commodore owners are bogans?
No offence, but the douchebag ratio of WRX owners is probably higher.
@SpottyMoose: nah it's always those old commodores that speeds, weave through traffic and blasting loud music
@MrFrog: True, but the ones in skylines, wrx's, evos, etc tend to find themselves wrapped around a tree in short order thanks to their hektic massiv aftermarket turbos with an age of lag coming onto boost strongly when they don't expect it to. The V8 power is a bit more linear and less likely to spin you off unless you stomp on it going around a hairpin while trying to drift.
@airzone: rofl Tell that to the dude that floored it, fish tailed and rolled his Holden ute on the hwy here the other day….
NRNR
Because it's bigger….
More passenger space, more luggage space, greater towing capacity… can fit 3 baby seats across the back….
I found the Commodore to have a much better ride for cruising (roads aren't that great in some parts), more room inside for families and good towing capacities. unfortunately wife didnt agree until already bought another car, then hired a commodore :(
Listen to her actions, not her words.
Actually those were the only ones that came up when I searched for my combination of features… and unfortunately I don't have a lot of faith in the long-term reliability of Aussie engineering.
Not enough old commodores around on the roads? The typical lazy big 6 will keep going for a long time, and parts are plentiful.
We have decided that this will be our next car; probably in a year.
A couple in our late 60s with a worked NA6 MX5 and a twin-turbo Stinger :-)
That's amazing! How did I not come across this when doing my research? Thanks, will definitely look into this!
Edit: Just slightly over my budget… and too new for there to be cheaper used models out in the wild. Ah…
Edit Edit: But JEEEEZ DOES IT HAVE SOME PEDIGREE!
It was designed by none other than Peter Schreyer […] widely known for his work on the iconic Audi TT.
and
Albert Biermann, former BMW M Vice President of Engineering
Edit^3:
Look around, and you won’t find any direct competitors to the Stinger, at least locally.
Sigh, yes, my exact dilemma.
The reviews I read were not very complimentary.
Do not be stung.
Which one?
Drive
Saw it Saturday in the SMH - I am sure there are numerous articles from various journalists with Drive. The one that I read was talking about the sub-standard handling etc.
There was the wheels pre-review using an engineering sample with the adaptive suspension disabled. Drive's review is positive.
Every other reviewer seemed to find the suspension mode dial and adjust it to their preference (usually smart).
Don't get me wrong, it vibrates on a poor road even in comfort, but it is a minor flaw when it's closet competitor is the HSV R8 for $95-110k.
I don't know if I'm doing something wrong but doing a build on KIA's website, I don't see a manual option?
there is no manual option anywhere in the world
i suggest the OP is wasting his time unless he's willing to either go import or take a falcodore in manual or take a BMW or subaru
thats pretty much it
Manual is not an option on the Stinger. 8 Speed auto only.
apart from evos/rex
lexus RS200 if you can find one , or IS200 with 2jz-gte engine swap
you want new ?
kia stinger gt …. does it come with manual ?
GT misses out on the manual.
Yeah - the closest I'd been able to find before coming across the Stinger above was the Lexus IS250/350. But I've tried driving autos before and…. bluntly if I was going to drive an auto, I may as well get the cheapest thing with wheels and an engine that gets me from A to B.
The RS200 is near non-existent in Aus unfortunately, as Toyota/Lexus never sold it here. I believe the total number on the road nationwide can be counted in one (maybe two) hands; reason being that you have to own and drive the car for two years overseas before Australia allows you to import it IIRC. Many of the Altezza specimens here have come via NZ as they have no such import limitations.
For those not aware, the Toyota Altezza shares the same body as the first gen Lexus IS (IS200 & IS300). When most people refer to the Altezza though, they mean the RS200 not the AS200 which runs the same engine as the IS200, a gutless 6-cyl 2L. The RS200 has a 4-cyl 2L which makes about 50% more power in comparison, similar to what the IS300 makes (which runs the 3L 2JZ-GE "Supra engine"), but is a much more balanced car overall due to the 3S-GE BEAMS Engine being lighter and better tuned compared with the 2JZ. As a side note, the Altezza Gita AS300 is a wagon (as compared with RS200/AS200/IS200/IS300 sedans) that runs the 2JZ as well, and like the RS200 is JDM only.
I believe manual IS300 only exists stateside, meaning you're really left with the slowpoke IS200, which takes >11s to get from 0-100. So, unless you're super keen on a first gen IS specifically, maybe look elsewhere.
Source: am a wannabe Altezza owner, but have been driving a bone stock IS200 the last three years. Definitely wouldn't go back to driving auto though.
Depends on what you currently have and consider an "upgrade"
Give us examples of what you've looked at already.
From initial guess I would say a JZX110, but that's pretty old now any may not be an upgrade to you.
Was looking at used IS250s and IS350s (Lexus) for around 20-25k. But couldn't get over the fact there's just no manual option.
The IS250 previous gen came in manual.
https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Lexus-IS250-2010… - this one claims to be 2010 but it's one of the worst written ads I've ever seen. Makes me think the interior is completely stuffed because there isn't ONE photo
This one https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Lexus-IS250-2007/… is 10 years old but yes a manual.
BMW 3 series? The 330i was available as a manual until recently. I know you said you don't want a euro but your reasons make no sense. If they've been looked after, it's completely fine to buy one. Anyone who disagrees probably drives a 1.6L Yaris.
Ha!
wtf?! They serious?
26,700 km
Still…
I'm betting the left one that the ODO been played with
Toyota 86 :D
EDIT: Oh sedan :|
WRX - manual, turbo, AWD and Japanese.
If not the new one, then the previous models?
Or a Liberty if you want something a bit bigger?
Liberty, tuned by sti, bang on for your buck. Anything sub 100k km will be anywhere between $20-30k (I only just recently spent $23k on one). 07-08 being the preferred model. The 06s are significantly cheaper and cheaper again for the auto.
6 Speed, awd, 2.5L turbo. Beautiful car. Gentleman's wrx,best of all worlds.
I like driving RWD manaul. I got a holden commodore. Ford/toyota 86 will be fine if need just 2 seats. Carsales
I drove a coupe when younger - no doubt very fun but no, need something with a bit more practicality these days.
Have you contemplated a 4x4 dual cab ute? Nissan Navara STX (Late model D40) - I've owned SS Commodores, Nissan Skylines, Audi RS's - While the performance was just awesome fun, nothing came as close to being as versatile as a 4x4 dual cab ute. I fitted mine with a few extras and it is just awesome. I know people with the later model D40 Navara ST-X with the 3.0L Renault diesel and that engine hauls ass for what it is - compound that with a turbo back exhaust, tune etc. while it is not going to drive like a Nissan Skyline you will keep up and maybe even pass depending on mods, standard XR6's and V6 Commodores in a straight line. Pretty good for a nearly 2 tonne diesel ute with on demand 4wd / full time RWD / Manual / 4 doors and 5 seats and a 1.4m x 1.4m boot.
I don't know how to respond to this. Because I can't actually tell if you're serious or not…
I don't have enough Xiaomi gear to fill the bed of a ute?
Im serious ….. do it !!!
Don't buy a new car. New cars are for poor people.
lol wut
If you buy a new car you become more poor, because you suddenly have a lot less money.
you still dont make sense because you would have just gained a brand new car
12 months later it is worth $10k less.
And all the interest on the loan.
A lot of financial bad news if you buy a new car
$10k less? Bit if a general statement there. Definitely an LC200 is worth $10k less because there's nearly that in stamp duty alone, and of course everyone forgets that they bought a car drive away, but then they advertise as plus stamp duty.
Or are you saying a 1yo Swift is worth $6k?
Or are you simply just pulling random figures out of your ass to prove a false point?
I think I know which option is accurate…
And you know interest rates are cheaper on new cars than used right…? Less risk.
If I bought a car that made a significant impact to my networth, I'd be poor and stupid. Regardless of new or used.
That's fine. That's your choice. You can spend your money on whatever you perceive to have value.
If someone wants to purchase a car that they can enjoy driving - then why does that make them stupid? For some people (probably like yourself) cars are just a means of travel. For others, cars are a hobby and something that they enjoy.
Is the guy that's driving around in a rusted out Hyundai Excel smart? Simply because he didn't 'waste' his money on a nice car? Or is he stupid because he enjoys watching movies and has a $20k home theatre setup in his house?
Is everyone who spends money on hobbies and things they enjoy stupid because they're choosing to invest in themselves over increasing their networth?
@ILikeBargenz:
No one mentioned value. You are clearly confused.
I mentioned spending money in relation to networth, ie spending within ones means.
You're talking about where money should be spent.
Yeah my bad, my reply should have been to Yttrium.
I agree with you in that regard - spend within your means.
@Yttrium: Well I had some good advice, from an investment banker no less, that cars are a high yield investment. Argue with that!
take a look at the WRX mate
Except I like driving manuals (and they're a dying breed)
Since when?
Since most cars don't come with a manual option anymore. Have you been living under a rock?
Have you been living under a rock?
Do you normally say this to anyone with a different opinion to your own?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but manual has always been an option for RWD/AWD cars, as they are classified as more performance-orientated rather than just people-movers.
yep when they ask stupid questions that could have been answered by google :)
yep when they ask stupid questions that could have been answered by google :)
Excuse you, my question was mostly rhetorical, but I'm glad you didn't pick up on it.
Since when have I liked driving manuals? Well I grew up with a manual family car, learnt on one and my first and second cars have both been manual so… since forever really.
Since when have manuals been dying out? Since… quite a long ago, but the trend really picked up maybe 3-5 years ago, even in the performance segment as automatics have become better and better in terms of efficiency, intelligence and shift-speed. These days, performance dual-clutch automatics shift faster than stick, and get better mileage, so there's no actual reason to make manuals other than driving satisfaction.
It's downright depressing as someone who grew up on manuals and finds automatics as fun to drive as a home appliance.
Amen. Automatic is so incredibly boring.
I guess the death of manual gear control is inevitable though with the advent of electric vehicles.
Oh god that's even more depressing. At least right now they're just rare, but with e-vehicles they'll actually be extinct. By that point, might as well just buy a self-driving car and treat it as an actual appliance.
After a long day at work driving manual stuck in traffic doesn’t seem worth.
I feel the same in traffic but cannot stand the jarring whir of torque converters, gears shifting out of my control etc in every other moment that I’m driving. I will say my left leg prefers automatic to my HD clutch..
What are you currently driving?
Subaru Liberty Spec.B is getting a bit old but came in manual, has AWD and the 4th gen Liberty has one of the most timeless designs of all (alongside some mid 2000s Volvos).
Honda Accord Euro also has a reputation for being a drivers' car, but FWD.
Honda Accord Euro also has a reputation for being a drivers' car, but FWD.
Yup. Actually did drive one for a long while a few years back and enjoyed it but (admittedly irrationally) want to try driving a RWD car for a change.
Most people won't notice the difference between driving a RWD/FWD/AWD in day-to-day motoring.
Unless you're towing or racing/hooning…..
Nonsense for FWD, even on a slightly wet road and tiny incline 99% of FWD’s will either wheel spin/traction control will kick in, it’s incredibly obvious.
No, I specifically said tiny incline because even on that or stopped at a light where the road isn’t perfectly flat (heaps of that in Australia) the wheels will spin even with a tiny amount of throttle. You probably drive like a slug if you’ve never noticed it.
@Chewiebacca: that's very true. I have experienced wheel spin quite a few times on wet, inclined roads in my celica.
Price range…?
Are we talking Skyline/Galant/Evo/WRX sorta stuff, or something new?