Very Disappointed with The Doctors That We Encountered

aboogee on 24/11/2017 - 07:20
Last edited 29/11/2017 - 20:07 by 1 other user

UPDATE:

So, today we went to see the midwife and I was very happy with the service.
Was constantly interrupted by other pregnant women, but like I said we didnt mind that as we acknowledge its public anyway.
I actually liked the system to some extent as she demonstrated care and was very responsive. there were a couple of moments when we asked her a few uncommon questions I supposed, and she'd consult other senior midwives when she didnt know the answer. Very good attitude I have to admit. She, at her own initiative, requested from the GPs, pathology labs etc all the test results for the past 3 months, after we left the hospital. Very appreciative of that.

The bad thing was, she found out that there was a minor infection that my wife had, which apparently was "easily treated" at early stage of the pregnancy. The test was done almost 2 months ago. It is now becoming a concern. Clarification, not any sort of STDs, please….
What happened? The GP totally missed that section of the 2 months old report when we saw him 2 months ago. When we returned to the clinic again today panicking and saw a different GP (the one that we originally saw was on leave), the new GP got so pissed off that we didnt know about the infection. Asked us a few times why we are unaware of the infection. When she opened up her screen, she said "it was so obvious as it was highlighted on my summary page". Well, we dont have access to the screen, hello…. and it was definitely not on the report that we received. We were told it was all good.

I dont know the consequence now. We did another test again under recommendation of the new GP.
But like I said in my original post, seriously doctor?????
I hope you guys see my point. Its not a matter of fee/charges vs waiting period.
The midwife that we saw was from a public hospital and she was doing a great job.
Its about responsibility, courtesy and to a smaller extent competency.

I probably should add, the original GP that we saw doesnt bulk bill and there was a gap that we had to pay so its definitely not free.

Disclaimer: For any doctors reading my post (perhaps not as they probably dont care about deals? =)), I have no disrespect for this profession. I am more keen to find out why are all these happening.

TLDR: Very disappointed with the doctorS that we encountered. very irresponsible. why?

Hi all,

I recently have 3 distinct (and indirect) encounters with doctors (both local and overseas) and really wanted to vent, and get your views as to why this is happening…

Abit of my impression on doctors-
Where I came from (Malaysia), doctor/medicine is a highly regarded profession. I wanted to be a doctor when I was young as I really wanted to save people. However, I ended up in engineering, because I really cant cope with needles/pain.

Fast forward to just 2 months ago till today-
My wife became pregnant and we went to see a GP, who later recommended us to a hospital to do all sort of test/scans. The doctors, nurses, and even the admin staffs (from a public hospital) took no interest at all with the well-being of my wife. It is her first pregnancy and we didn't know what to expect, but the medical staffs gave me a feeling that they are not dependable at all. We ran into different types of hiccups, ranging from getting bullsh*t advices, missing reports, and insisting on performing a test that we later found was supposed to be done at a much later stage of her pregnancy. I'd clarify its not due to the lack or resources in the hospital as many would claim for all these hiccups, because we ran into situations where the medical staffs were chatting among themselves (yes - in front of us and I am 100% it was related to shopping plans for Christmas) while they let us wait and attended to us just a while later.

At the same time one of our friends apparently had (apparently) "minor" cardiac arrest , and went to the hospital just to be told it was nothing and told to go home. When he returned to the hospital the next day due to the prolonged pain in his chest, they noticed the diagnosis was wrong and arranged for a surgery immediately.

Then the tipping point for me was my conversation with my mum and dad who are in Malaysia.
Dad had his blood test done to see if he had diabetes. The reading came out to be very close to the threshold and the doctor recommended him to do a blood tolerance test. Had him drink a (very concentrated) sweet syrup for once, and then told him his blood sample cant be used, and had him drink the same syrup another time and his blood sugar spiked! (Alright perhaps some fault on my dad's part for drinking the syrup twice without questioning, but dad panicked on the borderline reading so just did what the doctor said). Then the doctor probably noticed it was his instruction to drink the syrup twice that may be the culprit and asked my dad to return a month later (ie last week) to do a "detailed" blood sugar test. Did everything and yesterday was supposed to be the day when dad gets his results and apparently the doctor just casually said the test is no longer available and he wouldnt be able to get any result for the blood test. Why recommend dad to do the blood test in the first place then? I think dad would have done 4 blood test where 2 of them had no results given back to him.

So
The point I am trying to make is - I have no issues whatsoever if a doctor tells me he/she doesnt know the answer about something and make the effort to find out. We are human being afterall. On-the-job learning is part of the journey. And I am certainly not the kind of person where I must see the best doctor for everything and if you cant cure me you-re sh*t. But then I am definitely against doctors who dont know, and yet pretend to know and assume everything is going to be fine! Do they have the slightest conscious that it is life that they are toying with when they are being so irresponsible? Some of my colleagues even told me that when they saw the same doctor in the same suburb, the doctor actually googled for treatment in front of them - dont know how much truth there is, maybe some but maybe none.

I dont know if I am expecting too much or what. OZB back to you guys. What do you think?

Health & Beauty

Comments

  • ihbh on 24/11/2017 - 07:33
    +15

    Your issue re the pregnancy was that you had no doctor "project" managing your wife through the pregnancy.

    If you'd gone through the private system and paid an OB a couple of grand to $5-6k, then you would have gotten this service.

  • TheBilly on 24/11/2017 - 07:49
    +2

    So there is a documentary about an aussie guy on youtube that motorbikes from england to australia. This guy eats something bad on the mongolian border and starts peeing out of his ass, its that bad. Completely dehydrated he crosses the border into "rural" china, goes to the first hospital and within 15 minutes they have taken a poo sample, tested it and commenced his treatment. Moral of the story, Australia is a beautiful country with great landscapes, you'll pay for the priviledge to live here, through poor service and high fees/charges. It could be worse, you could be in America where everything is crap, and you still have to pay. Just the harsh reality.

  • JimmyF on 24/11/2017 - 08:45
    +11

    The doctors, nurses, and even the admin staffs (from a public hospital) took no interest at all with the well-being of my wife. It is her first pregnancy

    No, they have seen at least 1000+ pregnancies before your wife came along. This was your first, your expectations are different. Think its the first/best/special event in the world.

    Sorry, I stopped reading after this. Wall of text.

  • dasher86 on 24/11/2017 - 08:53
    +5

    Users are expecting too much from a modern medical system without paying for it?

    • akd on 24/11/2017 - 09:19
      +3

      I don't completely agree with you. Are we not paying taxes? We are paying our fair share of taxes and do expect good service.
      Expectations can be different for different people.
      I do understand that for first baby people are more concerned, but saying "without paying", it hurts.

      Personally we had very good experiences during most of our visits to public hospitals everywhere in Sydney, Melbourne and Canberra.

      • HighAndDry on 24/11/2017 - 10:36
        +3

        If you think the amount of taxes the average person pays is even remotely close enough to how much good medical care would cost for that person, you're very mistaken.

        You get what you pay for - and free medical care (or the medical care you get from the share of your taxes that go to medical care)… well, you get what OP got.

        EDIT: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/no-…

        Here's a good read-up, notably:

        Only the top fifth of households ranked by their income - those with incomes of more than $200,000 a year in the financial year ending June 2012 - pay anything into the system net of the value of social security in cash and kind received, according to data from the latest Australian Bureau of Statistics survey of household income.

        • akd on 24/11/2017 - 10:46

          Good Service is related to service provided by humans(medical staff in this case) and expectations by customers. It should not be compared with what we are paying. What is guarantee that paying extra through private health insurance gives you good service?
          I have been to countries like India where people pay full amount for medical expenses and in some cases the service is worst. Service should not be related to what we are paying. That is my point. Repeating again, personally I had good service during all medical visits.

        • HighAndDry on 24/11/2017 - 11:07
          +3

          @akd:

          It should not be compared with what we are paying.

          We don't live in magical fairy-land. Everything you want - whether it be products or services - has a real-life cost.

          You get what you pay for.

          What is guarantee that paying extra through private health insurance gives you good service?

          Doctors in the private sector get paid more. Better pay attracts more job applicants. More applicants = ability to choose better applicants. Further down the chain - better pay prospects attracts more students to undertake these studies and join the profession, allowing universities to select for more qualified and competent applicants also at that stage.

          And that's just the personnel - more money very directly leads to better equipment, not to mention more equipment and therefore more availability of equipment at any point in time.

          I have been to countries like India where people pay full amount for medical expenses

          Translate that into AUD and I think you'll find it's still much much cheaper. That's why medical tourism exists. I'm not bagging out doctors either, but again, you get what you pay for.

        • parisienne on 25/11/2017 - 10:29
          -2

          @0blivion: You,Sir….you need to be the next PM (if not interested there,can be become the CEO of an area health service ? ) Your insight is truly refreshing and honest.

    • TrevBargn on 24/11/2017 - 11:43
      +5

      Users do pay for it, either through taxes or directly.

      Just take a look at the ATO top 20 earners last year:
      1. Neurosurgeon $577,674
      2. Ophthalmologist $552,947
      3. Cardiologist $453,253
      4. Plastic and reconstructive surgeon $448,530
      5. Gynaecologist; obstetrician $446,507
      6. Otorhinolaryngologist $445,939
      7. Orthopedic surgeon $439,629
      8. Urologist $433,792
      9. Vascular surgeon $417,524
      10. Gastroenterologist $415,192
      11. Diagnostic and interventional radiologist $386,003
      12. Dermatologist $383,880
      13. Judge — law $381,323
      14. Anaesthetist $370,492
      15. Cardiothoracic surgeon $358,043
      16. Surgeon — general $357,996
      17. Specialist physicians — other $344,860
      18. Radiation oncologist $336,994
      19. Medical oncologist $322,178
      20. Securities and finance dealer $320,452

      Yes, they studied for a long time, but the Australian medical association works hard to restrict numbers of specialists to keep their fees very high. They want to restrict the number of doctors, even though population is growing and aging.

      • HighAndDry on 24/11/2017 - 11:47

        Maybe numbers are restricted because only the top N% of applicants have the necessary intelligence, skills and aptitude for the profession. Unless you think anyone can walk off the street and become a neurosurgeon?

    • dasher86 on 24/11/2017 - 13:34

      Don't forget to take into account the ageing population in Aust. which also needs to be supported.
      It becomes much harder to compare it to another country with a different demographic.

    • aboogee on 24/11/2017 - 19:04
      +2

      With due respect, may I ask what would you expect if you had to go to a public hospital? My (probably silly) view is that the responsibility/duty of care of medical staffs doesnt change whether its public or private.

      If someone is not privileged and cant afford private medical attention, are we suggesting that they dont deserve proper medical treatment when need be? and that if they've been diagnosed incorrectly that they should just accept that faith because they're not paying for it?

      I'm asking because I am confused as to the right level of expectation, and am more than happy to be enlightened.

      Like I said, not concerned about waiting time/long queue whatsoever. Just cant accept wrong diagnosis.

  • Baghern on 24/11/2017 - 09:25
    +1

    I always thought a lot of doctor/health service related issues is because we are a neurotic society, that wants/demands the best service. Doctors and co constantly have to deal with a lot of rubbish as a result serious cases would be missed

  • try2bhelpful on 24/11/2017 - 10:12
    +7

    Would be interested if the GP you saw was part of one of those big bulk bill clinics with a whole bunch of different doctors? I have a terrific GP he, quite literally, saved my life by spotting my Melanoma and ensuring I got the best, and speediest, treatment for it. He doesn't bulk bill but the difference to medicare is not exhorbitant. Human bodies are not like cars, sometimes you just can't find out stuff.

    I have no trouble if a doctor checks a medical database when they are trying to interpret your symptoms. There are few professionals that don't "hit the books" when working on a problem, if only to reassure themselves they are probably correct in the assumption. Subtle differences can have catastrophic consequences.

    In relation to the testing, I would ask your GP what they are testing for because that is a good segue into general discussions about what to look for during the pregnancy. However, you need to ask this in a manner that is cordial, not accusatory.

    • HighAndDry on 24/11/2017 - 11:04
      +1

      Love this comment, not least because it's one of the only times I've seen someone spell "segue" correctly.

      But this, especially, is spot on:

      I have no trouble if a doctor checks a medical database when they are trying to interpret your symptoms. There are few professionals that don't "hit the books" when working on a problem, if only to reassure themselves they are probably correct in the assumption. Subtle differences can have catastrophic consequences.

      The pace of progress in a lot of professional fields move far faster than anyone is able to keep up with on a day-to-day basis, even in those fields with mandatory periodic educational requirements. Especially for a job that covers as wide a scope as a GP, the bulk of their skills and experience would be in recognizing common symptoms, and knowing how to research less common symptoms and/or when to refer to a specialist. It's certainly not possible to memorize everything they could possibly come across as a GP.

      • aboogee on 24/11/2017 - 18:52

        Can totally appreciate both your views - that doctors might have to google…
        Admittedly I assumed the doctor had no idea as to what he was doing when I said he googled
        But if it was just confirming something that he suspects then its totally my bad for judging too quickly.

    • Qkumber on 27/11/2017 - 08:56

      When I was pregnant my doctor gave me a number of referrals for tests at my second appointment and the doctor told me when each one needed to be done. As it’s a lot to take in maybe you thought you needed them all now rather than waiting for the right time for each one. An alternative to going private is something called shared care where most of the prenatal appointments are with your GP rather than going into the hospital. The GP needs to be registered for this. A third alternative is called community care I think where you have most of your prenatal appointments with a midwife and the rest with a obstatrician. I did this and I had the same midwife the whole way through. They spend longer with you and because they have more experience I found it much better than my GP.

      All the best with the rest of the pregnancy.

  • Diji1 on 24/11/2017 - 11:22
    +2

    I have no issues whatsoever if a doctor tells me he/she doesnt know the answer about something and make the effort to find out ….

    Some of my colleagues even told me that when they saw the same doctor in the same suburb, the doctor actually googled for treatment in front of them

    …

    • airzone on 24/11/2017 - 11:32
      +1

      The most unusual bit is the doctor missed his chance to research in private and have them come back later - another easy swipe of the medicare card..

  • mskeggs on 24/11/2017 - 11:30
    +9

    My diagnosis is acute case of whingeing.

    • godofpizza on 24/11/2017 - 11:40
      +4

      no it's the case of OP hating doctors with a mind case of whingeing.

  • 17833 on 24/11/2017 - 11:35

    Gosh, no cardiac arrest is "minor"

    • mskeggs on 24/11/2017 - 13:28
      +2

      And when you see the absolute drop-everything priority they are treated with in the ambulance and emergency ward, it is hard to square with what OP said happened.

      • aboogee on 24/11/2017 - 19:27

        Pretty sure if he was diagnosed with cardiac arrest that he'd receive treatment immediately.
        The story that I've been told was the initial diagnosis was wrong, until he returned the next day….. so yeah

        • esosite on 24/11/2017 - 20:02
          +2

          Sudden, unexpected loss of heart function, breathing and consciousness - cardiac arrest.
          It's a pretty easy diagnosis and the patient wouldn't have been returning the next day, they would be dead or in ICU or if lucky stable in a CCU unit.

          One could presume you mean a minor heart attack, a NSTEMI perhaps. Perhaps the patient had angina of some description on the initial presentation, they have ECGs, serial troponin (blood test to assess heart muscle damage) and a number of other tests. These all come back negative and we send home.
          -> time is a diagnostic tool with some conditions. In the above patient in all cases that they have risk factors they would be prognosticated with outpatient investigations (exercise stress test e.g. treadmill or MPS etc) Anyway I do understand where your coming from, often these processes are everyday practice for those working in healthcare and it is easy to disconnect from the knowledge of layman in the community. There is a big knowledge gap between healthcare workers and average patients/families which is difficult to communicate and is probably contributing to your dislike/poor experience in the hospital.

          I would like to know what this 'bullshit advice' or wrong diagnosis are that you have encountered?? Also I don't understand the miscommunication or problem with the sugar test. What was done was an OGTT (oral glucose tolerance test), which measures fasting sugar then sugar post carbohydrate. Blood test at 0 hours; drink the drink; blood test at 2 hours (or a variation of this). Did he drink 2 bottles in one sitting?

  • aboogee on 24/11/2017 - 18:30

    So if I can conclude -

    We're expecting too much from the medical staffs, given that we did not pay for the service (LOL)
    Its completely understandable if doctors give us wrong advice
    The fact that I posted this suggests that I hate doctors

    I guess I am ok with those views. I really do.
    Just need to manage our expectations and we'd be good.

    To be frank if I hated doctors, then it doesnt matter if I went to private or public.
    We did our research, didnt believe the rumours about public, and decided to give public a go.
    With that, I can accept delays, long queue etc but definitely not wrong advices (what else can I expect from a doctor if not for a right diagnosis)

    • Baysew on 24/11/2017 - 18:35
      +5

      Don't forget the bit about whingeing.

    • raun on 24/11/2017 - 19:06
      +1

      Not everything is clear cut. Not all medicine is cut and dry… some of it is varying shades of gray. Probability.. just like everything else. This is why you can get conflicting opinions from doctors, and why it isn't a bad idea to get a second opinion for something serious and you're worried about it. Have you never made a mistake, or a decision that didn't pan out well, at work?

      The public system is overrun with garbage. These days it can be more about putting out fires and stabilizing than it is for minor issues. Generally speaking, if you're not actively or at risk of dying, it doesn't require immediate attention on presentation.

      If you want someone to hold your hand and pat your head, private is the way to go, but be prepared to pay for it. Do you expect that when you buy your used Toyota, that you'll get the same smarmy and sycophantic behavior from the salesman as if you were to have walked in to a high end luxury car dealership?

      Waiting is normal in medicine. Waiting for medications to work. Waiting for clerks to register you into the system so that things can actually be ordered and documented. Be fearful if there is no wait and people are rushing to see you; the only time one rushes is when shit is about to (or has) hit the fan.

      You are not the only patient there. Some hospitals get over 200 presentations A DAY. Most doctors juggle multiple patients at the same time.

      GPs send lots of patients to the hospital for investigations… it doesn't mean that they actually need to be done in the hospital. Some referrals are inappropriate, and could have been managed with outpatient investigations and scans. There are some pretty bad GPs (like any profession) who just send everyone in to hospital to try to cut the line, or get someone else to sort it out for them. If the hospital staff felt like there was no impending life-threatening problem, then don't be surprised if there isn't an urgency to your visit.

      We are all human. Do you ever take short breaks at work? I think it's unreasonable to expect that people can't talk about non-work related things… especially when that work environment can entail some pretty horrific things.

      • aboogee on 24/11/2017 - 19:19

        Thanks for that.

        Agree that we are all human and we make mistakes.
        Admit that I have made (and might continue to make) mistakes at work, but I swear I would stand up and say I've stuffed up and ask for an opportunity to fix it.
        I do take breaks, but not in front of clients or suppliers. I call it manners/courtesy. I dont think I'm alone with the attitude here. At least I found most of my team members or manager are like that.

        As I said, I dont have issues waiting. I dont have issues with long queue. If the doctors are attending to patients who require urgent attention - yes that is the price for going to public.

        But admittedly, most of you suggest that I am expecting too much so I'd probably learn to manage expectations from here on. =)

  • [Deactivated] on 24/11/2017 - 20:26
    -8

    Sorry long winded
    Veterinarian / farmers don't turn any animal upside down to have a baby yet the idea is to lay on your back, is that natural.
    Not using gravity

    https://suziqi.nl/2013/04/15/alternative-birthing-positions-…

    Folic acid is given to pregnant women it is poison to the system Folic is cheap synthetic your doctor or cereal will give you Folic
    folic vs folate

    Doctors will only do what the pharmaceutical companies tell them .
    Hospitals are business also their interest is more money and bigger they never release a projection how they will be smaller in 10 years .

    93 percent of Malaysian Muslim women admitted to being circumcised.
    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4w7ja9/female-circumcisio….

    For Male circumcision it is the same as removing an eyelid, if it's what God designed it this way you would not need circumcision. What does an eyelid Do?

    Stop thinking your Doctors are here to help you , you are here to help you .
    If you are Malay Chinese well how did Mahathir bin Mohamad treat You?.

    50% of everything you know is wrong

    Vitamin D is formed on the skin you need more than 24 hours to absorb it , but you shower soap it off.

    Cure/ help to Arthritis Borax/Boron
    http://www.health-science-spirit.com/borax.htm

    Cataract

    http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazine/article/1686-fighti…

    Recomended daily allowance is a scam it is the Minimum to keep you alive , not healthy

    Avoid heart stents(scam) and improve blood flow with "edta"

    Squat toilets keep you healthy

    Search Curezone , earthclinc ,watch "What the health"

    Yes all these are poisonous and you will die reading this , but salt is twice as poisonous us as borax, and read the label on your shampoo, sauce it may have edta in it.

    The USA Federal Reserve is not Federal and has No reserves is a private company that pays no taxes and the stock holders are a secret , if you did the same you would be called "The Don " as in the Mafia.

    10% of the world’s mercury is in humans. It is found in silver dental amalgams which are 50% mercury.
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/the…

    Here is a list of just a few of the chemicals routinely added to our water supply:

    Liquified chlorine
Fluorosilicic acid
Aluminium sulphate
Calcium hydroxide
Sodium silicofluoride

    Xxxxxxxxxxxcccccccccc

    Everyone is out to keep you alive and sick as repeat business .

    Look at everyone as a parasite living on you and life will be better.
    5% percent will be genuine loving people , but the rest are just paying mortgages.
    Good luck

    I hope the grammar police don't read this

    [Deactivated] on 24/11/2017 - 20:26 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
    • mjwills on 25/11/2017 - 09:18

      and you will die reading this

      I'm still here.

  • mjwills on 25/11/2017 - 09:16
    +2

    It is her first pregnancy and we didn't know what to expect, but the medical staffs gave me a feeling that they are not dependable at all.

    Your first pregnancy is a very stressful time. You are worried, and don't know what to do (I know the feeling, been through it).

    That worry might feel like the medical staff aren't dependable. But, I'll be honest with you, it is largely in your head. The medical staff do this stuff every day. They are all over it. If there was a problem with your pregnancy, they'll be on it quick smart.

    As others have suggested, consider going private and / or get an OB for your next pregnancy. Not for safety or anything, but for your peace of mind.

  • Lastchancetosee on 25/11/2017 - 12:45

    A few comments from someone who works closely with clinicians in the private and public sector, and has been involved in the medical system as a patient and carer:
    There is good and bad practice in both. It's not all about how much you pay.
    Poor communication, rather than a lack of medical knowledge, is often the biggest problem (as evidenced by the findings of many coronial inquests).
    Patients are not always great communicators either.
    Mismatched or unclear expectations are an issue, even more so when dealing with people from diverse cultural and linguistic backgrounds.
    Most clinicians are well intentioned, and in Australia, are highly trained.
    No system is perfect, and sadly errors do happen,but given the number of medical interactions in Australia every day, the number of adverse events is relatively low. Every health department in Australia is trying to find ways to reduce errors as they are costly in human and economic terms.
    If you find a way to fix the system, then please share it :)

  • Nuggies on 26/11/2017 - 09:53

    If your friend who had the "minor" cardiac arrest is unhappy with their care and feels the staff were negligible then he/she needs to make a complaint to AHPRA.

    Likewise with you, if you feel your medical treatment was unsatisfactory then also make a complaint.

    Any type of chest pain is treated seriously, patient is hooked up to ECG, chest x- rays are taken and blood tests for multiple testing is done including cardiac markers. If he/she was indeed having any type of cardiac arrest those tests and ECG, would indicate that and the patient most definitely would not have been sent home if that was the case.

    But as I said make a complaint to AHPRA if you were unhappy about your experience. I doubt anything will come from it though based on what you have explained.

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