In case you hadn't heard, Australian Unions (and the AMWU in particular) are calling for a boycott of Streets Ice Cream this summer.
Apparently the Enterprise Agreement Streets had with their workers was paying them 46% above the award - and Streets wants to terminate the Agreement and revert to the award rate.
I want to know, will you be supporting the boycott?
(In other words, will you cheapness override your sympathy for workers getting a big pay-cut?).
Just had a Gaytime for the first time a while.
Bloody nice
Do you lick it slowly from bottom to the tip or just try and shove it in?
:p
Ctrl+F "capitalism" - 0 results
I notice no one is talking about the system and instead blaming workers vs. employers. This is the race to the bottom in action.
God dammit, I got excited when I saw 1 result for capitalism!
Let's all start importing ice cream (not from China of course), unless you want to be short lived. Maybe only EU and US
Support our boys, boycott streets until this is positively resolved.
Why is it that factory workers are always victims, yet executives getting the can are expected to suck it up? All employees should think for themselves whether their position and value they provide is sustainable. Sounds like the workers were paid well enough to have the brain capacity to represent themselves. Graduates in other industries often leave university and enter jobs with no protection. Why should factory workers get sympathy while raw uni graduates are on their own. The Streets workers are grown adults and it's not a sheltered workshop.
It's unfortunate that 95% of people are the 'workers' and only 5% of people are upper managers/exec/owners. This is why they always get out voted. This is why when 95% of the populace votes, it's often the WRONG decision (umph Trump). It's the very nature of things I guess.
How about lifting the rest of the working class up instead of dragging those doing well down? Trust me, factory workers being paid too much isn't why graduates in other industries earn too little. Cutting their pay won't mean other workers get more. All that money will go where it always goes, right to the people who don't need or deserve it.
if everyone is doing well, it will cause inflation…..
@holyland: Yeah. I really wonder at the intelligence of some people here sometimes. Do they think that if you suddenly gave EVERYONE $1000's more, that the amount of resources available to be bought magically increases too?
Or miss the point that the "people who don't need or deserve it" - i.e. the greedy capitalists - are the ones who make decisions about where to invest money, build factories, hire workers? I mean, if the unions and union leaders were so great, THEY would be opening businesses and factories, instead of just being middlemen leeching from both sides.
The alternative was new workers being put on lower rates, while current workers receiving no pay cuts. They denied it, so streets responded with "well (profanity) ya, you can all have award rates".
They must be getting at least $33/hr currently according to minimum wage for there to be room for a 46% drop… Higher wage than some professional jobs, working in a bloody icecream factory lol
ARE YOU SERIOUS? Nobody should be paid above $25/h for making ice cream, $30 tops. (Doesn't apply to managers)
Pharmacists get on average $27/h now after 5 years of study and the daily risk with one tiny mistake or oversight you can kill someone.
Guess we will be seeing ice cream made in china soon.
ARE YOU SERIOUS?
Usually, yes.
Nobody should be paid above $25/h for making ice cream, $30 tops. (Doesn't apply to managers)
Your opinion. Nobody has granted you arbiter status. If Streets want experienced staff, they must pay what they're worth. Streets are in no position to retrench all but young singles with no dependants.
You also fail to acknowledge the cold stone/boutique/ultra-premium wankity crap.
Pharmacists…
They should have stayed just that wee bit longer and became GPs. Vets and dentists earn more with five years study. Yeah! Let's put the boot into those pricks too.
Silly pharmas chose to work in a relatively safe retail environment without getting bodily fluids on them all day.
one tiny mistake or oversight you can kill someone.
Wow, ferrealsies? Good thing you pointed that out. Hopefully those considering such a career will take that on board. Such a heavy burden!
Or, ohh I dunno…insurance.
Whereas a manufacturing facility is a magical place where a sprinkle of this, a sprinkle of that, stirred with care and chilled just-so — as blue-collared fat cats sit around on camp chairs with their cuppas — and out pops boxes of ice cream.
Nothing dangerous or complicated there.
China soon.
There's Chinese chips-in-tubes everywhere, so China is possible. You could try blaming Unions, but full automation will undercut even the lowest Chinese wages.
So let's not be distracted by Unions exporting or foreigners "stealing our jobs".
Any shift to lower wage/tax regions is just a stepping stone to elimination of staff. Unless you're so naïve to think any fixed input costs are acceptable to these crooks?
It's ozbargain and an internet forum - we are all arbitrators.
Lol if only it was that easy re becoming GPs. Enter score hurdle, UMAT/GAMSAT etc etc.
Brah - that is so how it looks on TV. Willy from the Wonka factory told me.
I ate a Bulla ice cream today. If streets closes so be it.
All the dairy companies are having a field day in China anyway.
Unfortunately most of these companies are public share holder companies. Alas it is the will of the shareholders that in the end pushes for such action. Capitalism at it's finest.
This is a manufacturing concern in Sydney, where high property values combined with record low wage growth have landed them in this situation.
If maintaining a viable business model in a Sydney factory means paying illegals or children $10/hr, I'm sure the shareholders would love it. Doesn't make it legal.
I have no skin in this game. Worst case, I'll make my own ice cream. Chinese melamine-pops? No thanks!
The World seems to be in a race to the bottom, whoever reverses all the progress that's been made for the working class the quickest wins.
IV been told the guys on production line make 110k Plus a year. I’m sorry but as an electrician that works with life threatening dangers all day I see half that. No production line job is worth 100k + a year time to get with the times
Then perhaps you should be campaigning for better pay instead of making theirs worse!
Did anyone read the old EBA here? The operations workers do 40-hour weeks (42h in maintenance) on 12-hour shifts (06:00-18:00/18:00-06:00) rotating 5 day (7 days for maintenance, 06:00-18:00) weeks, with penalty rates built into their wages (aside from casual loading). The operation workers have certificates in food processing, and the maintenance workers are tradies. I doubt many people in this thread currently do 12-hour shifts, or all night shifts. Perhaps everyone here should actually search how much warehouse roles usually pay too…
I think a lot more people work 40hr+ weeks or 12 hour days more than you think. Most private companies consider 40hr weeks to be standard!
I ate a gaytime today.
I don't have an iphone, but no one really gives a shit about the sweat shop they're made in.
Same same
lol
I tried the maxibon gaytime yesterday.. Not that great tbh… … Too sticky holding the Sandwhich… Turning out to be very similar to a real gay time I'd imagine.. Some sticky mess in your hands and something akward to swallow
I definitely won't be boycotting and shop based on value/pricing and taste.
At the end of the day its just another product on the shelf/fridge competing against the others next to them. Don’t see why the politics at production/factory level should affect my choices at the store.
I studied design and photography for 5 years only getting stuck working for two photo companies the past 12 years starting at $17 award to the now $24/hr and to freelancing the past decade on the side just barely makes ends meet. Plenty I work with have second jobs. People want to pay less for services and on several occasions see business/ companies asking creatives to work for free using the worthless 'exposure' as their self validated reason. It’s mostly an unregulated industry and no useful unions helping the majority yet an abundance of people out there willing to take my place if I want to walk out of it all and try something completely new (and probably make more than I ever did). So if they weren't earning below award wage to begin with I can barely sympathise with them - they already have it way better than I do.
Can't speak for streets as a whole, but the paddle pop I got for my younger brother just a few days ago was really disappointing.
They are trying to beat Dominos in terms of microfood :D
This is why shit is moved overseas. Everyone wants to be paid alot while still wanting to pay peanuts for products. It doesnt work that way if you want jobs to stay in australia go ahead and buy things that cost 50-100% more than overseas items. If not shut the f up and compromise on more pay or a more expensive product.
No boycott from me. Streets costs are too high and the EBA is the main cause of this. Either Streets cuts costs or they close and import Magnums - either way we get to eat their ice creams.
Socialism doesn't work. It's been tried here and in many other places and always ends in disaster. Get too socialist and the ensuring cluster**k brings a backlash - ala Margaret Thatcher.
I for one support Aust Jobs. I do not believe that any company will pay over the award. I also support that companies should pay tax.
Off topic observation: I can see many ozbargainers are not paid over $200k in this thread, I honestly thought most of you guys were on over $200k with 2 years or so out of uni experience based on previous discussions ;D
People on this site really love workers getting screwed over. In line with with the anti welfare views.
A lot of people here think they are part of the 1%, going to be part of the 1%, or are somehow special and unique such that they can do better, and screw the rest of you thanks I'm okay. They dream of owning a business and seeing the money pour in, and if they have to take it from other people well that's their tough luck. I think some of the people posting would steal from their own grandmothers for the cash to buy that free tasty icecream they feel they are entitled to. It's filthy to see and it's why by the time I drop dead (at my desk no doubt) this country isn't going to feel so lucky.
The flip side of so many employers being unwilling to pay workers is that no one will be left with enough money to buy your freakin' icecream. They won't have money for basics. Economy tanks. No one ever talks about that when they're trying to lower wages. Classic tragedy of commons. Or rather commoners ;-)
Award is the MINIMUM. it hasn't even kept up with inflation. You shouldn't be receiving the award after 20 years of loyal service. 46% pay difference between the kid who comes in on AWARD and experienced older staff who are expected to be at peak earning and providing for others is quite reasonable.
"You shouldn't be receiving the award after 20 years of loyal service."
And this is why you're not in charge of any payroll. Wtf does length of service have to do with how much value you represent or create for your company? And companies paying people more than they're worth is how companies go broke.
No. I'm not in charge of payroll because I'm a specialist in another area.
If you have an employee that doesn't gain any experience, grow or progress in 20 years, you have failed that employee and they in turn have failed you. If you just want cogs in a machine, automation is much cheaper these days.
I have news for you though, pal. You're not going to out-compete existing low wage markets no matter what you do. They're long established and even less scrupulous than yourself. Once there was a dream of Australia becoming "the clever country". Now we just aspire to be a bunch of 3rd world slavers.
@syousef: These are ice-cream factory workers, working on a production line. How much more "productivity" do you think any number of years of experience or "growth" is able to be gained from each worker in that situation? The ones who do grow are line managers or higher - who you now probably hate because they're no longer blue-collar workers.
The ones being offered award rates? Yeah, they're production line workers. Anyone higher is on a salary.
You seem to think everyone has unlimited intelligence and potential for growth. That's patently not true. There exist many people who have a ceiling for their abilities of "production line worker". That's it. If those jobs ALL get automated, they don't magically become smarter/more capable. They're just out of a job.
Thanks to government and bureaucracy, no he can't unless he has all the necessary pieces of paper that allows him to be. And if he had those, he wouldn't be a line worker, he'd be a few level above, or an outside consultant being paid much more.
Ha! So "they should get paid more because they have more skills", but the ones who are more competent and skilled, and so get promoted, should give up that greater pay to people who weren't? Laughable.
Sure, but the people you're railing against aren't just the 1%. You think even the high level Aussie Streets executives and upper-level management are part of the 1%? You're dreamin'.
TL;DR How about you actually freaking take a look at the damn agreement we are they are applying to rip up before talking absolute rubbish based on fiction playing out in your mind?
https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/ae…
If you do you'll realize half your assumptions are complete drivel.
(1) This EBA affects operational and maintenance workers and not just unskilled "line operators".
EBAs don't just affect line workers. Where I am they affect everyone that is not a middle manager or above. Without going into more detail, there are a lot of specialists who are not managers and do not want to be managers.
You seem to have no idea whatsoever what it takes to run a factory. Things break down. Maintenance is required. It's not just a bunch of drones sitting there pressing the same button or pulling a lever to dispense ice cream.
(2) You seem to think everyone is made to be a cog in your money making machine. that's patently not true.
But seriously your attitude towards people is abysmal. People have to improve just to keep up if nothing else. You talk about "government and bureaucracy" on the one hand and employees not being able to adapt or improve on the other. Well how is it they managed to survive these regulatory changes over the last decades? You can't have it both ways!
In any case again I refer you to the existing EBA which outlines what these workers have to do to progress through their career in the company.
(3) That "government and bureaucracy" requires the company to give employees avenues for feedback. It requires them to qualify for various certificates and undertake learning as outlined IN THE AWARD ITSELF. It outlines how they progress through levels.
(4) WHAT?!? You're really struggling to twist my words here. Please try again. You're assumption that none of these workers is skilled or competent is quite frankly revolting. You accuse me of hating management but you proudly wear your utter disdain for workers. They do need qualifications btw. These aren't walk-in jobs. Read some of the articles even if you can't be bothered with skimming the EBA itself. But I guess actually finding out what a worker does is beneath you.
(5) You think they won't come for you. That's what's hilarious here. Streets is owned by Unilever Australasia. Unilever is a Dutch-British transnational. They initiated this. Don't let facts get in your way though. They haven't elsewhere in this argument.
You seem to think that I have a cartoon image with a Mr Burns type character from the Simpsons sitting in an office. That's not how it works. That's not what people mean when they talk about "The 1%". Also when you talk about the 1% you can talk at a national or international level.
DO NOT EVEN BOTHER TO RESPOND TO ME IF YOU AREN'T GOING TO READ THE DOCUMENT AND MAKE THIS FACTS BASED. I'M NOT INTERESTED IN DEBATING YOUR TWISTED IMAGININGS BASED ON A TABLOID ARTICLE.
"If you have an employee that doesn't gain any experience, grow or progress in 20 years, you have failed that employee and they in turn have failed you. If you just want cogs in a machine, automation is much cheaper these days."
This is fallacious reasoning. Not everyone is ambitious, not everyone is driven to succeed and there certainly aren't enough higher roles or progression levels in the world to accommodate for everyone. There are a lot of people in the world who will get to a point in their career where they will settle. Sometimes it will happen begrudgingly, sometimes apathetically, sometimes 'life' happens and suddenly you're career plans aren't as important to you anymore as other things are higher priorities.
@syousef: You've read the document… so you know the EBA has expired and pay is being renegotiated, right? And that the default, absent a renegotiated and NEW EBA, is award rates. Why are you still arguing?
If you're doing something for 30 years and don't improve, it's either menial and mostly should be automated, or you're not doing it right.
It doesn't have to do with ambition at all and you don't need to work harder or longer or sacrifice family commitments to achieve doing your job well while you're there in the workplace.
You've been watching too much Hollywood junk and drinking too much company cool-aid.
I've just completely destroyed the fallacious nonsense you've spouted and this is your response? "You know it's got an end date right?"
BAH. You are wasting my freaking time. You're absolutely right about one thing: I shouldn't be arguing with you.
@syousef: Just because you typed a lot of words doesn't mean those words make any sense. The fact is: these workers are doing what is very close to menial, physical labour. If you say that those jobs should be automated, maybe they should. Good luck to those workers in that case. Similarly though, good luck to those workers if the factory makes a loss year on year, because then it'll be shut down and no one will have a job there. That's the bottom line.
You can wax poetic about fairness, and having a fair go, and the evils of capitalism, but none of that will keep the factory open if it's making a loss compared to other factories.
I'm sorry. Which part of referring to the actual EBA instead of fictional nonsense didn't make sense to you?
You have no freaking idea what these workers do. You don't care about what they do. (You won't read about it and continue to tell me what you imagine they do. So I can't help you.) You don't care about them. You just imagine yourself in the position of a manager or owner, lining your pockets.
The factory would have been shut down long ago if it was making as big a loss as you are saying. Labour pressures and other cost pressures are not new and have not jumped all that much since that last EBA was signed. Wages are a large expense, but far from the only one.
Don't waste your time telling me what the bottom line is, or that I don't make sense, when you have no intention of even bothering to read the facts when I point you right at them. I'll repeat. I have no interest in debating the fiction that goes through your head.
Wax poetic my foot. Having a debate about what is actually happening instead of talking abstract points and oversimplified fiction is now "waxing poetic". That's what's wrong with the world. Too many people with no interest at all in reality.
@syousef: A lot of words railing on about how I'm not addressing "facts", and yet very few in your actual comment. Again here are some facts:
The EBA expired last year.
"For example, a frozen Streets Magnum ice cream can be imported from Europe with a total landed cost of 30 per cent less than what it can be made for here."
Australian workers have no leverage. Tell me the advantage to Streets of caving in to union demands as opposed to just shutting the factory down and importing ice-cream for cheaper.
The last point in itself kills any argument you could possibly raise. Use your noggin mate.
(1) I am the one who pointed you at it. I know when it expired. You know I know when it expired. You keep telling me anyway.
An EBA continues unless renegotiated or you apply as Unilever has to have it set aside because you are unable to negotiate a new EBA. The new EBA is suppose to leave employees better off overall. Clearly large pay cuts don't do that. Unilever failed to negotiate in good faith and are now trying to get clearance to set aside their agreement. It is not fair or right and this is all the union had left because new laws even limit induatrial action.
(2) Company claims it can import cheaper. That would mean the jobs are no longer viable even after thr cuts. As I have shown you though you refuse to acknowledge this work isnt just a menial repedative task. If you want someone to work but you cant afford to pay them they don't owe you the work.
(3) If Unilever can shut down and import cheaper they will anyway. What happens when thr imports get even cheaper? Do you want the workers to pay their employer instead of drawing a wage? Nope. These people live locally where costs are higher and so is the standard of living. At that point the local manufacture is done! We saw that with the car manufacture industry after billions wasted in govt subsidies. But I bet thats not as easy as claimed and local competition would crop up. I bet there are other efficiencies to be had.
"The new EBA is suppose to leave employees better off overall."
That's an unsupported assertion. They do continue until a new EBA or it is set aside, but the "setting aside" of an expired EBA is more a backstop. FWA will set it aside if no new EBA is negotiated, otherwise the expiry date in an EBA is meaningless.
"Company claims it can import cheaper. That would mean the jobs are no longer viable even after thr cuts."
No… cost of a product includes wage expenses. If you reduce wage expenses, the product becomes cheaper to make.
"If you want someone to work but you cant afford to pay them they don't owe you the work."
Half of your comments seem to say that Streets should just fire all these workers. I'm not sure how you think this would help workers, but you do you.
"At that point the local manufacture is done! We saw that with the car manufacture industry…"
Yes. Again, read my previous point. Are you on the side of workers, who I'm sure would want to work as long as possible in factory jobs before being forced to retrain/retool, or on the side of… I'm not even sure what. Winning internet arguments?
I said: "The new EBA is suppose to leave employees better off overall."
You said: "That's an unsupported assertion."
No. It's the law. You keep displaying your utter ignorance.
"Half of your comments seem to say that Streets should just fire all these workers. I'm not sure how you think this would help workers, but you do you."
If they really can't pay their workers properly, it helps those workers because it leaves them free to find work elsewhere that can give them above poverty line wages. But in case you haven't cottoned on to the fact, I simply don't believe that they need to cut wages drastically to continue to make a profit. This is a money grab. Pure and simple. Costs and competition have not increased so much in 3 years that these conditions were viable then and aren't now.
"Are you on the side of workers, who I'm sure would want to work as long as possible in factory jobs "
Workers only want to work as long as possible so they can provide for their families, not because they want to make their bosses richer and go poor. If you can't pay them they shouldn't be working for you. They are no more a charity than the company is.
"No. It's the law. You keep displaying your utter ignorance."
Hahaha that's ridiculous on its face. Quote the law that says this. Go ahead, I'll wait.
"If they really can't pay their workers properly, it helps those workers because…"
Workers are free to quit whenever they want. They're not quitting, so obviously they disagree with you.
Here you go.
http://workplaceinfo.com.au/resources/employment-topics-a-z/better-off-overall-test-(boot)
Okay, now wait for it…. from that site, what does it say?
http://workplaceinfo.com.au/resources/employment-topics-a-z/better-off-overall-test-(boot)
"It requires that each ‘award covered’ employee and each prospective award-covered employee must be better off under the agreement than they would if the relevant modern award applied to them."
Did you want to re-read that? Better THAN THE RELEVANT MODERN AWARD.
Certainly NOT that the new EBA has to be better than the old EBA.
Want to keep digging your hole deeper?
Going to quote all your comments so that your ignorance is saved for posterity:
"syousef 45 min ago
@0blivion:
An EBA continues unless renegotiated or you apply as Unilever has to have it set aside because you are unable to negotiate a new EBA. The new EBA is suppose to leave employees better off overall."
"syousef 3 min ago new
@0blivion:
I said: "The new EBA is suppose to leave employees better off overall."
You said: "That's an unsupported assertion."
No. It's the law. You keep displaying your utter ignorance."
"@0blivion:
Here you go.
http://workplaceinfo.com.au/resources/employment-topics-a-z/better-off-overall-test-(boot)"
Oh no. You got me. On one point.
You ignored about 6000 points which you had no response to, but you got me on one. I guess you win.
Grow up you troll. Go find someone willing to let you enslave them.
Well, the one point that you've hung your entire argument on.
Also proved you can't read.
Think my job is done here.
I didn't hang my entire argument on that one point. Did you fail comprehension?
What does that one point have to do with a decrease in standard of living?
What does it have to do with employers no more being owed work than employees being owed entitlements?
What does it have to do with me proving that these employees aren't the unskilled workbots you insisted by pointing you at the award?
What does it have to do with you failing to read the previous agreement? Bet you still haven't bothered. Do you know what the lowest pay rate is?
ALL you have proven is that recent governments have made the laws even more biased towards the employer than I had stated. Well done. Workchoices by another name indeed. Would you like someone to clap for you?
This is what you would have Australian working conditions emulate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
If those working conditions are legal, does that make things just fine and dandy with you? What's a few suicides from unskilled workbots between moguls? KEEP THIS CRAP OUT OF AUSTRALIA.
Like playing chess with a pigeon.
Too many posts lately on Ozbargain is measuring saving $ over political empathy….
Why are you guys even at this site?
Everyone is forgetting that Unilever owns Streets and is a uk Company
Exactly. If they thought the same way the socialists in this thread thinks, they'd be pulling all factories out of Australia back to the UK and importing everything from there.
Importing icecream from the UK? Are you high? If you're going to cut costs you don't import refrigerated items from the most geographically far location with a high price workforce. It'd be somewhere in Asia which is close and has cheap labour.
Again with the lack of reading comprehension…
"If they thought the same way the socialists in this thread thinks…" i.e. keep all the jobs here, etc.
Again with the trolling when I show what you say makes no sense whatsoever. "You're a socialist" is not an argument.
You literally have no clue how to run a business. You literally speculate wildly without even bothering to think through your speculations to make sure they are sensible.
I don't get the boycott - if consumers don't buy streets, it will only quicken the closure of the factory. The unions are thugs - and don't put the interests of the workers first. Surely they can find a middle ground, that's slightly above award but not considerably over like it is now!
And the govt/international community is to also blame for trading with countries like china who fix their currencies and don't have proper working conditions for workers. It's an uneven playing field.
"if consumers don't buy streets, it will only quicken the closure of the factory."
No one ever accused unions and union leaders of being able to reason…
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/streets-let-th…
The Streets worker gets on average $105,000.
$105,000 for extremely low skilled work, no wonder they want to fight change, they will not get this amount for pushing buttoms on a machine and shifting boxes anywhere in the world.
I think this is a paid article I can't seem to access it without subscription
Bring a bear into the lounge room, by all means, but don’t be surprised when the bear tears up the carpet, chews the curtains and demonstrates an inability to comprehend bathroom etiquette.
When a bear is in the lounge room, it is not the bear’s fault for behaving like a bear, or for being there, because someone let it in.
Finally, there are only two options: eject the bear from the house or accept the bear as is. There is no third option of keeping the bear there but controlling it, or even reasoning with it, because it is a bear. The bear is in the house by invitation of the homeowner or the bear remains outside, at their discretion also.
In Australia, when company management has a “relationship” with a union, it is like having a bear in the lounge room. Industrial relations in this country is as simple as that, I’m afraid. By the way, your columnist is neither anti-bear nor pro-bear but merely points out that the thing destroying the lounge room is a bear, and it could be put outside.
This summer, on the beaches, the bears will fight a battle for the hearts and minds of ice cream eaters. Their dispute is with Streets, and they don’t want you to eat any of their ice creams.
“Hey @streetsicecream, PAY YOUR WORKERS”, one of the bear minions, Sam Dastyari (Labor senator for NSW), tweeted recently. The senator hasn’t let the facts get in the way of a good story, though, because Streets pays its factory workers at Minto, NSW — pays them quite well — and intends to continue paying them.
The average annual wage of a Streets production worker at Minto is $105,000 a year. This is not a king’s ransom, especially in Sydney, but it is, according to calculations done by the union, 46 per cent above the relevant award wage, which is the legal minimum. It is also 46 per cent more than someone who wants to start an ice cream business and compete with Streets is required to pay, and that is the fundamental problem.
The $105,000 comes about by virtue of a 2013 enterprise bargaining agreement between Streets and the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union.
The 2013 agreement expired in August last year, but all agreements remain in place with the force of law until replaced with a new one or terminated by the Fair Work Commission.
After lengthy negotiations between Streets and the union, the parties have been unable to reach a replacement agreement. Now, the company has applied to the Fair Work Commission to terminate the 2013 agreement.
An agreement termination technically would put workers back on to the relevant award, although Streets has undertaken to preserve wage rates until April next year, and still is trying to negotiate with the bear, er, union, for a new agreement.
While negotiations continue, the union has put together a $250,000 budget towards destroying the company.
With the help of the ACTU, it has crafted a social media campaign urging consumers to boycott Streets products.
The first clause of the 2013 agreement deals with its aims, being “to ensure the manufacture of internationally competitive, quality products, produced efficiently, within a safe and satisfying work environment. The intention of the parties is to build a partnership for the future success of the plant and to ensure a viable ice cream business in the future.”
Unfortunately, despite that statement, the agreement guarantees there will be no viable ice cream business in the future. It contains clauses that would finish off any business, with draconian restrictions on flexibility.
After reading the document, I believe there must be a God, because it is a miracle the business is still in operation. The agreement explains why, with a global business of 30 ice cream factories, the Australian site stands alone as outrageously expensive and off-the-charts uncompetitive.
For example, a frozen Streets Magnum ice cream can be imported from Europe with a total landed cost of 30 per cent less than what it can be made for here.
Streets Magnum ice creams cost 30 per cent more to make here. Supplied
Streets Magnum ice creams cost 30 per cent more to make here. Supplied
The agreement provides income for the union, too. One clause forces the company to buy an income protection insurance policy called WageGuard for every employee. The policy must be purchased from a company called UCover. The union has a 49 per cent interest in UCover and its national accounts last year show that more than $3.6 million from UCover was paid to the union.
ACTU secretary Sally McManus says Unilever and Streets are “bullying” their workers, and “forcing” them “to choose between an agreement they don’t want and a 46 per cent cut in wages, with crippling cuts to conditions”. The company says it needs a significant increase in flexibility and that wages will be preserved, and are not needing to be slashed, but costs must be addressed. If this can’t be achieved the plant will close.
The real choice for the workers to make is between reality and la-la land. These people need to ask themselves who they trust, the union or their employer. When making this decision, they should consider who employs them and pays their wages.
Unfortunately, though, many employees will find themselves financially incentivised to drive Streets out of business.
A clause in the EBA mandates that in the event of plant closure, at a minimum, each employee will receive paid notice of six months, and four weeks severance pay for each year of service, uncapped. An employee of 20 years would receive 80 weeks’ pay plus other benefits.
During the six-month notice period, the company and the union would have to consult about “additional closure payments” and if they can’t reach agreement the Fair Work Commission can decide these payments and order the company to make them.
Remember, this agreement has been voluntarily entered into by the company in the past, and is the result of years and years of compounding negotiations. The bear has been invited into the lounge room and allowed to stay.
Internationally, there is a phrase for what has happened to Streets. It is called “the Australian disease”. By virtue of enterprise bargaining folly, the Australian arm of a global business finds itself on the brink. The Australian disease is 100 per cent avoidable, curable and its effects are reversible.
Yet when a company is in the grip of the illness, the only thing it often does is keep doing what it has always done while expecting the outcome to change. Hence negotiations between the company and the union are ongoing.
If you want to support the workers, help them keep their jobs. Ignore the boycott and buy lots of ice cream.
IF what you say is true, the Australian icecream business is finished regardless. Like it or not cost of living is higher here. If you can't pay your local workers properly, your local business is finished. The only reason for them to work is to make a living.
Let's not subsidize it either with below cost of living wages or government assistance. We should have learnt from car manufacture. The jobs will go anyway.
Unilever is seeking to exit from an ongoing workplace agreement they made with staff a few years ago, which by default continues.
The awards are NOT keeping up with basic standards of living.
What don't you understand here? If you and every other worker is paid badly and forced to give up 30 years of negotiated wage increases, who exactly do you think it is that is going to be able to afford to buy your freaking icecream? Let me tell you icecream isn't high on the list when you need to pay for medical care for your kid and can't afford it.
Unilever is seeking to negotiate a new agreement given the old one has EXPIRED. Yes, the existing agreement continues by default but that should not stop Unilever from putting a new offer on the table.
The awards ARE in keeping with the basic standards of living as they are set by Fairwork the independant arbitrator. Who else is going to be a better authority, you?
Getting paid the award != getting paid badly.
Getting paid 185% of the award rate is getting overly paid.
What a bunch of total baloney.
Unilever is seeking release from the continuing contract because it says it couldn't come to an agreement. It couldn't come to an agreement because what they offered was a one sided reduction in pay and entitlements. So you have completely misrepresented that. I've come to expect nothing less from you.
The awards are NOT keeping up with the basic standard of living. It doesn't matter how many times you repeat this lie. There are workers living in poverty.
http://theconversation.com/minimum-wage-up-but-households-st…
https://www.australianunions.org.au/minimum_wage_ctr_factshe…
I suggest you either go to your employer and ask to be put on minimum wage, for the good of the country, or shut up about the award being good pay. It's not.
A wage increase of 59c an hour is a joke when rent and electricity have doubled in the last decade or so.
http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/minimum-wage-to-…
Our apprentices are also living below the poverty line.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-06/apprentice-electrician…
Fairwork is independent in name only and can only work within the laws they are given. They have frequently sided with the employer. They have frequently failed to protect workers from being underpaid.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace-relations/shoppies-…
If they were independent the PM wouldn't be acting properly to try to influence them:
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/turnbu…
And the arguments made about wages being a deterrent to employment have problems too:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-29/koukoulas-higher-wages…
But I bet you already knew a lot of that if not all of it.
185% of award is not the minimum. Would love to know how that was calculated.
If you look at the current agreement they are seeking to tear up:
https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/ae…
Mimumum apprentice pay: $29,615.62
Minimum full time wage: $67,182.70
When you say 185% award is being overpaid, do you mean that anyone paid under twice what they were on when they started working is being overpaid? If so hand back the cash I bet you're taking hand over fist now, or donate it to charity when you get to that point. Better yet ask to have your pay reduced to under $30k. Otherwise you're being a hypocrite. Or you know what, don't worry about it. They're coming after your wage too in the next decade or two with the support of people such as yourself. When you are living in a country where people are paid only in food and board, you can celebrate the victory of your way of life.
Median rent in Minto for a 3 bedder is $410 a week or $21320 a year.
https://www.realestate.com.au/neighbourhoods/minto-2566-nsw
Perhaps you're suggesting that if you work in an icecream factory you shouldn't breed.
I'm absolutely disgusted with the nonsense being spouted on this thread.
I haven't misrepresented any of what you are suggested.
Unilever wants the old agreement gone because it has EXPIRED, they are now working within the legal framework on forming the new agreement. Or do you have evidence of any illegalities? Please share if you do.
I have not even made any comment on the one-sidedness of this proposal, only that this deal makes Streets @ Minto more sustainable, and one would surmise their jobs more sustainable in the same process.
Fairwork is independant and yes operates within its legal framework but that does not mean Malcolm Turnbull can rock up and tell them to cut wages.
I'm not sure how the 185% figure is related to minimum, I never said that. The maths is simple. If Streets are proposing the workers return the the Fairwork ratified award and that represents a 46% drop from the workers' current wages, that means the workers' current wages are 185% of the award.
When I say the word overpaid, I mean in relation to the norm for that level of work / skill. If you are getting paid 85% more than others doing similar work with similar skills (with all else being equal) thats being overpaid, especially when the employer no longer wants to pay that amount. The equilibrium price of their labour has always remained the same, they enjoyed years of high wages. now is the time they should consider going back to the norm. I have no problem whatsoever with Streets are willing to pay them an average of $105k, but there is no market for a $105k ice cream manual worker anymore, the workers should accept the new reality.
My pay has nothing to do with this scenario, if my employer were to say my nw wage is minimum I could walk out and get paid the same or even more than current. In fact his is exactly what I am suggesting Streets workers do as well, vote with their feet and test the market. If they think their labour is worth $105k on average do they think another employer will take them up? I suspect no, they know its a no.
If they all left would people fill in their old role @ award? I suspect yes, they know the answer is yes.
All your statements about not breeding and poverty are all emotional BS that we've come to expect from those without a sound argument, its OK, I forgive you.
EXPIRED contracts CONTINUE until a new EBA is negotiated, or if the employees and employer can't come to an agreement action such as this is taken. So yes you misrepresent it each time you yell EXPIRED.
Legal doesn't mean just or fair.
Sustainable jobs that don't pay a living wage AREN'T WORTH HAVING. We don't need slave labour in this country.
If you're never permitted to make more than minimum wage because that's what other people are earning doing the same job please explain to me how people manage to raise families? Did your parents earn only minimum wage?
I'm not going to CONTINUE talking to you. Every time I do my stomach turns. I hope you personally get exactly what you want - minimum wage. You deserve it mate! Well done. I hope the rest of the country does better.
Again I have misrepresented nothing.
Look….I'll quote myself.
"Unilever is seeking to negotiate a new agreement given the old one has EXPIRED. Yes, the existing agreement continues by default but that should not stop Unilever from putting a new offer on the table."
And thats all I want, for Unilever to be able to bring a new agreement.
Legal is legal, Uniliever is expected to follow the law like you and I and thats exactly what they are trying to do.
If Streets workers believe the Streets jobs 'aren't worth having', I invite them once again to vote with their feet and find another employer willing to pay on average $105k for that unskilled work.
Who ever said they aren't permitted to make more than minimum ffs? They've enjoyed years at $105k average. Again thats emotional BS coming into it. Lets be better than that.
I don't want minimum wage, not sure where I said I do. You are just putting words in others' mouths. Again…let's be better than that.
Around and around and around,. Unilever HAVE put new agreements on the table. They have been rejected which is why they are seeking to force this through fair work.
"Legal is legal". Would you like me to Godwin this now? Those occurences were legal too. Why are you talking to me if you've just admitted you have no interest in fairness so long as it's legal.
I put no words in your mouth. If you think 85% above award is too much what should be the maximum difference between a 17 year old kid learning the ropes operating a single position in the line and working for award wage, and a shift manager with 20 years experience who knows how to problem solve and motivate workers and has a family to support. Please tell me. What should someone working for years and building up their skill in a factory earn exactly?
AND STOP!!!!!! TELLING LIES ABOUT IT BEING UNSKILLED WORK. THE WORK LEVELS AND REQUIREMENTS TO ATTAIN THEM ARE CLEARLY SPELT OUT IN THE AGREEMENT. It covers operators as well as significantly more skilled maintenance staff. You're lumping everyone into this childish notion of monkeys pushing buttons to make icecream. Do you want to try fixing broken down industry factory machinery and tell me that's unskilled? Would you like to at least have some modicum of a notion who is covered and what they do before yelling "UNSKILLED LABOUR" and "OVERPAID"??
And going through Fair Work is the presribed protocol for such disputes, let's allow the independant arbitrator to make it's own determination.
I see paying award rates is Nazi Germany. Jeez…cut it out.
I have made it clear that I am in favour of Streets workers getting paid what the market supports, there were times where the market supported $105k and I made no noise, good on them I say getting a sweet deal. Now the market doesn't and the Streets workers need to accept the new reality.
If they are so skilled then why the hoohar, surely there would be many companies falling over each other to hire them for $105 on average.
Yeah because it's a fall over yourself hiring market at the moment, right? I will cut it out when you do.
You're just spouting unresearched nonsense. You as much as said, repeatedly, that so long as it was legal you don't care if it is ethical. Don't worry, I don't need to restrict myself to comparing you to a Nazi. There are lots of things that have happened in history that were not fair or at all ethical. Culling indigenous people and stealing their children, capturing and enslaving them. Lots more All legal according to the laws of the land they happened in or the laws of the land of the invading force.
And you won't answer my question. How much is too much? You see a headline figure of $105k, have no idea who is included in that average or what they do, feel envy and decide you're doing these workers a favour by supporting a pay cut. Do you know what a race to the bottom is? You should because you're facilitating one you'll eventually be part of.
Well you seem to think they are skilled and should command $105k on average easily. Let's put that to the test. I'll bring the popcorn.
OK first it was Nazi Germany now, Unilever can also be associated with genocide, stolen generation and slavery. Wow.
I have already answered your question, I have said whatever the market supports. I don't complain when Unilever wants to pay $105k on average for a guy to put Gaytimes in a box. Uniformly
I cannot give you one singular dollar figure because it moves. You know how the market works right? If not they still conduct high school subjects for mature age entrants, its never too late.
Race to the bottom is another tired old emotional catch phrase. Let's stick with Sustainability shall we?
No. Unilever didn't state that so long as it's legal that's fine. You did. Who's putting word's in who's mouth? Do you have a dictionary? Look up "Hypocrite".
But why am I even remotely surprised? Apparantently even after I told you that there was far more involved than "pay[ing] $105k on average for a guy to put Gaytimes in a box." you're still debating that misconception AND insulting them by insinuating most of them don't have high school certificates. What's the point. You're not even having a conversation about reality. I have no interest in debating your silly little fabrications and childish imaginings. And I'm not about to get into a pissing contest over salaries either.
Then you spout crap about sustainability. As if paying below standard of living wages as you'd like is sustainable. When everyone's wages are gutted who the **** is going to buy the icecreams if they can't afford the basics? The icecream buying fairy?
Hint : I wasn't insinuating Streets workers didn't have school certificates. Read it again….if you can.
If there is a pissing contest you are having it within your own reality, I've not mentioned anything about pay other than that of the topic, Streets workers.
Hint 2 : Just because you feel the award is below your standard as a living wage doesn't make it so.
And Street's isn't asking for everyone to be on the award, just 140 workers in their Minto plant who's agreement with their employer has expired. Has that fact escaped your comprehension?
"If not they still conduct high school subjects for mature age entrants, its never too late."
…
"Hint : I wasn't insinuating Streets workers didn't have school certificates. Read it again….if you can."
"Hint 2 : Just because you feel the award is below your standard as a living wage doesn't make it so."
I've provided links above that say otherwise.
"And Street's isn't asking for everyone to be on the award, just 140 workers in their Minto plant who's agreement with their employer has expired. "
That's only their entire maintenance and operations staff at their Minto plant.
Oh and look at what just happened:
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/careers/streets-fa…
Hint: Gutting wages isn't the only way to improve productivity and make a company competitive.
Hint 2: These workers may be able to save up to $2.5 million if you don't turf them out or slash their wages.
"That's only their entire maintenance and operations staff at their Minto plant."
Are you stupid or excel at acting stupid?
My response was to your statement that no one will be able to buy ice cream. Well what about the other 20 million humans on this land?
That proposal was laughable when I read it the other day and more laughable now that you hang your argument on it.
Lets say Streets saves $30,000 per employee (conservative) going to award. $30k x 140 = $4.2m.
Thats $4.2m PER ANNUM vs this one off $2.5m.
For the unions to propose this as some sort of sweetener shows how out of touch they are.
Makes you wonder how they calculated that when the EBA shows that only the top 3 role classifications (out of 20) are on a salary that high…
https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/ae…
Is that the base pay? Because penalty rates, bonuses, other remuneration can easily inflate base pay to a much higher figure.
Overtime is paid at double time. They get no other penalty rates, it's built into the base pay. Some allowances available for certain workers, the highest allowance being $4337.77pa.
Base pay: https://i.imgur.com/s4lc3Ss.png
Allowances: https://i.imgur.com/DxLLfMi.png
@Darkpulsar: I'm going to guess that there's a lot of OT involved, seeing how there are fairly draconian union restrictions on who can work at certain positions (basically no one can work at any position they're not officially hired at).
To get anywhere near an average of $105k basically everyone would have to be doing a crazy amount of overtime considering their base wages…
For reference, Peters has a lower base rate but has more penalty rates. The lowest production line role pays $29.37015/ph ($58k/pa on 38h week), but their standard shifts are 8 hours long, with additional hours at overtime (double time). They also get penalty rates of 10% early morning, 15% afternoon and night, as well as loadings for Sat/Sun. If they were doing the same hours and times as Streets they would earn quite a lot on top of the lower base..
https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/ae…
MADE IN CHINA POISON
I think it comes down to 2 simple questions
1. Can Streets continue to be a profitable business by using local labour at their current rate.
The answer is yes they can
2. Can Streets get more profit by offshoring to overseas
The answer is yes they can
The first is the perspective of the union
The second is the perspective of Streets
Now if we look at the bigger picture
Do we profit as a whole from cheaper labour overseas?
Yes we do, look at the product offerings and price tags we have now and think back to the 80s or early 90s or even earlier for those who are old enough to remember. Please adjust for CPI and remember our income went up.
What about the manufacturing jobs lost?
We've lost manufacturing jobs to overseas and automation. To be honest it's not just the manufacturing, there are call centre, accounting, payroll and tech jobs being offshored and automated constantly.
Are Streets workers being paid too much?
I know for a fact most large global companies pay more than the minimum required local salary… And more than the minimum required severance pay to attract talent. So it's not surprising Unilever is doing that too.
A simple example is a store person for Apple would probably be paid better than a store person for a small independent family business.
Sorry but streets icecream sux anyway.
I only eat Japanese Mocha icecream or Haagen Daz else when Conniseur is half price
Street is crap, too sweet no real good flavour.
Belgium chocolate Haagen Daz for the win, same with Sesame Japanese ones
I got nothing to boycott them as I never bought them at the first place.
When management are willing to take the pay cut for their hyper inflated salaries they can come back and talk to the union people. It is pointless me boycotting the product because I don't tend to buy their products anyway. Companies don't care about their workforce anymore, they will go for the lowest cost base and they don't care if the customer has a more negative experience because of it. Call centres are a classic example of these; although they are being killed off by internet communications as well. Companies are discovering more, and better ways, of ignoring the customer if there are any issues with their products.
Boycott due to animal (cruelty) testing already in effect..
You can't stack boycotts. You should consider sneakily relaxing your first boycott for having no effect and then publicly jumping onboard this new union show of force. That way there's a virtual lost sale. Internally you can have fifty reasons to not buy them, but publicly, you should signal that the current or closest issue is the stickler.
STOP ALL OF THIS CRAP TALK IF YOU WANT TO BUY GOOD QUALITY ICE CREAM PURE AND FROM
A AUSTRALIAN COMPANY AND AUSTRALIAN COWS BUY BULLA 100% AUSTRALIAN OWNED
For those who think making everything in China is the answer to everything ,
Why is exporting Baby Food back to China an industry in itself?
Because?….
When the almighty dollar becomes God ,
they put toxic waste in the Baby Food and killed heaps
Or maybe there's a different country with cheap labour and impeccable hygiene? mmmmm
New Zealand maybe?
But they probably have an award wage too. Bugger.mmmmm
??? Gee this running a business is hard work
Automation maybe ,
half a billion to refit then we have engineers and maintenance fitters to pay and constant software issues, so more technicians
If only the Chinese elite hadn't gotten so rich and bought most of the dairy farms,
Lucky the shareholders won't hold us to account on that one.
mmmm.What to do…
Screw the consumer,
but we're charging $8 for a packet of paddle pops now sooo.
I got it !
screw our workforce while we have a friendly Gov.
Quick before the people smarten up.
Not so hard,
now back to work you lazy good for nothing's
It's time for my tea and crumpet
Looks like we can all enjoy Streets Ice Cream once again http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-22/streets-workers-vote-t…
Going to buy Street ice cream now.