The wife and I have considered having kids in the next few years and I've been trying to forecast what that truly would cost.
What costs popped up that you didn't expect but actually cost a small fortune.
What did it cost you a fortnight to basically take care of this extra person in your middle-income family? I understand this can go really high or low, but on average.
Your experience would be a great help!
Best advice for people who want kids IMO.
I take it you guys don't know how close to impossible adopting a kid is these days.
Fostering on the other hand…
True
The maths is pretty simple really.
Take you total income, from that remove the expenses you have now, the rest is about 60% of what kids will cost you.
In summary, about 40% more than your current disposable income.
Seeing many more disadvantages to having kids than advantages…
Don't do it
Ask yourself why are you having kids.
Obviously if you are concerned about money; you are probably having them for the wrong reason.
Or they are being responsible for ensuring they are prepared before trying for them in a few years time…
IDK.
Children are quite a big strain on the economy. Esp when parents cannot financially support them. There are countless benefits allocated for children, childcare etc.
People don't "have" to have kids. People seem to think it is their "born right"/entitlement to have kids; despite our society/culture slowly lacking the infrastructure to support them.
"Every life is precious" is a lie; usually told by those who want 5 kids yet say we have too much immigration.
Plus 3 year's sleep.
OP, you can't look at it financially… and you can't wait till both of you are 100% sure.
I am the proud owner of 3 Mini UFO's, and if you asked me if I was either financially ready or 100% sure prior to the first, I could honestly tell you no on both counts. But that's not the point.
To quote a line from a Superman movie, "A good death is its own reward", and sometimes with kids you actually will death to take you away from the hell you are now in :). But then the pluses are huge… unimaginable. Think of your most loved and treasured thing/person you have right now. Something that is irreplaceable. Your partner, your pet, your car, your money? None of it…. none of it comes even close to the value you place on your child.
It's something that I can't explain in words here, and no one can. So believe me when I tell you this:
1) Don't wait for your financial situation to improve. It won't. Not enough to convince you its time.
2) Don't wait until you are 100% sure. That'll also never come. When you get to "I'm pretty sure" and you have a stable job and a loving partner, you're READY.
Trying to do a cost benefit analysis on a child will never work, because a) you have no idea of its worth yet (not your fault, but its something you can't learn… you have to experience it), and b) once you have kids you'll realise that no amount of money offered could possibly replace them. Millions upon millions (whilst very tempting!) would never be enough to part with them.
You'd live in a cardboard box in your undies with no money or possessions, if it meant your kids remained healthy and safe with you.
They are priceless. They are a deadset pain in the ass sometimes to be sure, but they will also provide you the answer to the true meaning of life and why you exist. And the answer is… For Them.
Everything is for them. Your blood, your sweat, your tears, your money, your sanity… everything.
But you get so much more in return. Believe me. And you won't even know it until one day it just hits you. And you go from "oh frak what have I done, I can't do this!" to "holy crap, I'm the luckiest guy in the world!".
Take a deep breath, suck it up, and ride the big one mate. It's why you're been put on this Earth in the first place.
So in a nutshell… to answer your original question:
They cost everything you have, plus a lot more that you didn't even know you had… in money, in time, in energy, in sleep. In every way you could possibly be depleted… and then into overdraft. But you get it all back!
A quote from a Macklemore song ("Glorious"):
"I heard you die twice, once when they bury you in the grave
And the second time is the last time that somebody mentions your name".
Amen.
Having kids is not a feasibility study. You either have the 'feeling' that you want to have kid(s), or you don't.
If you need to think about it all in financial terms, don't have kids.
They cost a lot, and it's scary in some ways (loss of freedom), but the rewards far outweigh the negatives (costs, lifestyle changes, attitudes, sickness).
Cost in financial: Everything that is left + more
Cost in sanity: High. Trust me, noone can tell you how bad sleepless nights are until you are right in it, and its not one off, its consecutive nights.
Cost in physical: High. First few years, alot more bad / quick food as there isnt time to do much else
Cost in leisure time: High. The only time you have is when they are asleep. That is when you cook / do housework
Memories: Priceless
Best feeling: When i come home from work everyday, he sees me and gives me the biggest grin in the world.
Best feeling: When i come home from work everyday, he sees me and gives me the biggest grin in the world.
I know right?! This is absolutely indescribable!
Babies are way cheaper than teenagers LOL!!
But if you have a baby you will cope and it will be Ok, you will always find a way to cope.
They are priceless …. as UFO also mentioned above ….
Joy and happiness are priceless … You can't put a number on it.
You cannot feel $100 or $1 million happiness.
When you are happy, you are happy. No amount of money can buy the joy and happiness the kids will bring into your world.
Dont agree. Not enough money = unhappy life. Eventhough u love ur kids u still feel sad. Plan wisely if u cant afford it dont.
So poor people are unhappy in life?
Come on man… surely you aren't that materialistic?
Yes poor ppl are on average more unhappy in life.no arguement there.
There are plenty of real life examples that would prove you wrong, but for simplicities sake lets refer to movie fiction… namely The Castle. Poor and uneducated family, but very happy.
Money doesn't make you happy mate. Just ask Gina Rinehart. Family and love makes you happy.
No family would make life very lonely. You'd certainly have more money, but I reckon less happiness too.
Whatever you think its always more and more. Especially as they get older. Never stops. So pointless even trying to calculate the cost.
Things to consider as babies/minors:
Doctors, medicines, baby sisters, stroller or prams, child seat, more and more clothes, several new beds, new linen, child minding centres, cost of larger accomodaton, cost of a bigger car, cost of taking more sick leave, toys etc.
Things to consider as school kids:
Most of the above plus education costs, school clothes, books, computers, more TVs, even more clothes, entertainment, more expensive toys, birthday parties of your kids and thier friends, ipods or smartphones, tablets or ipads, much more expensive holiday costs etc.
I think you are starting to get it
Anyone says "breastmilk is cheap" is an idiot. Is a woman's time worth nothing?
If you understand what a "cost" is, formula is cheap; breastmilk is stupid expensive. 1 can of formula can be $15-25 and feed a kid for a week.
Breastmilk: ~30 mins of sitting with your kid and being able to do very little else 8-12 times a day. There goes 6 hours of your life a day. Pump? sure. That's a bit less time and far more time efficient, but you can't really walk around outside while pumping or do a customer facing job.
And no, I'm not a woman, but after I saw what my wife went through, I'm 100% sure breastmilk isn't (profanity) free or cheap.
You do realise you still have to sit with your kid for 30 minutes, even when you use formula, yeah?
And since you're looking at "hidden" costs, what about the hidden costs of having a kid with allergies and chronic health problems because they were raised on formula?
And since you're looking at "hidden" costs, what about the hidden costs of having a kid with allergies and chronic health problems because they were raised on formula?
What evidence is there that children raised on formula have "chronic health problems"?
Formula fed babies have far less diverse gut bacteria than breast fed (I was a formula fed bub and have no allergies - so its not a guarantee of allergies - but the link is believed to be there)
There's plenty of evidence.
If you're interested, here are some links to get you started:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16902325
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4686345/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812877/
I just play Candy Crush, or whatever game is there while bfing. Something I would do, even without kids anyway.
I hate pumping though. I went back to work for 5 months, have to pump twice, was really icky, since I have to do it in toilet, ( was locum position, just trying to earn a bit for the house deposit, so can't complain. )
But no way, formula is any easier, you have to check temps, cleanliness of bottle, wash your hands, etc.. with breast, u just whisk it out, and I get to play my ipad.
I totally appreciate the comment respecting the effort that goes into breastfeeding (although you neglected the calorie in demands breastfeeding also requires) but time wise, most babies under 6 months (the WHOs recommended age for exclusive breastfeeding) need to be practically constantly held anyway. Personally (and I know I'm lucky for my experience) I never had an issue with breastfeeding until teeth got involved - and even that was a short lived niggle and we successfully breastfed for 2 years. Knowing ive helped set up a decent gut microbe in my kid is something far more beneficial than formula could buy :)
This comment makes almost no sense at all!
Babies need to be held to feed whether formula or breast fed
Some breastfed babies are super effiecient and will feed in 10-15 minutes (like my 3 month old) others, will take longer - you never know
Some formula fed babies (or breastfed really) will eat slowly, or have issues such as wind or reflux requiring them to be fed slowly/held upright/burped for much longer than 30 minutes.
A formula fed baby has to have its bottles made up, warmed and cleaned, all taking time, where a breast can just be whipped out at any time with no prep or clean up.
Pumping is not as efficient as a baby at extracting milk from the breast, then you have to store it, warm it and clean the equipment so definately not a time saver as you suggest!
Either way there's no way to predict how long it will take to feed your baby either way, and most mothers are on maternity leave for at least the first 6 months or so so what does the time of a feed matter?
I do agree however Breast feeding is not exactly 'free' as many (including myself in the past) suggest, as nearly all breastfeeding mothers will use a pump (about $100 used or $300 new) plus storage bags and bottles etc at some stage, plus the extra snacks etc for mum quickly eats into the $25/week cost of formula.
Overall I'd say it's cheaper than formula and certainly more convenient, but not for the reasons you suggest!
People are ignoring the income loss by focusing on the cost. Say the stay at home partner earns $50k after tax. Takes a year parental leave, then works half time for 3 years and works 3/4 time for 4 years. That's $162.5k after tax lost in the first 8 years (plus super, so another $15k plus earnings). Plus delayed promotions etc. $200k or more
It depends on how much you want to spend on them.
Clothing is basically free if you're willing to accept hand-me downs.
Food is basically free for the first year if your wife is breastfeeding.
Nappies are expensive. You can keep costs down by using cloth, otherwise expect to pay around $2-$4 a day.
Look up "infant potty training" on google - it'll save you a fortune.
As they grow, food bill in increase by a lot, and you'll eventually need to start paying for clothes, you can keep this down by going to the op shop.
School expenses can be a lot. You can keep this down by homeschooling.
From preconception through to my sons first year I tracked all expenses related to a baby, we are talking elevit, ultrasounds, GP visits, nappies (cloth), clothes, etc and it cost just under $2k.
His second year was even less as the cost of the nappies didn't exist, and he didn't grow in that second year.
Can't speak beyond that. It certainly could have been a lot more expensive if wed made different choices
Every kid costs approximately the same amount of P&I Payment for one 2Br investment property in Sydney
About $300k till they are 17 but I would say more https://www.finder.com.au/life-insurance-and-the-cost-of-rai…
Best investment you'll ever make
I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said but as always threads like this are a great read. Thanks everyone!
Up to pre teen years they dont cost much at all and you tend to spend more on them than you need to, especially at birthdays and christmas. In their teens they can send you broke.. want all the latest gear and fashion, everything must be brand name at 10 times the cost. Boys especially can eat like horses.. Teen years are the trying years.. aaaggghhhh!!!!
Medical bills can be the worst if they are accident prone or if a serious illness sets in. That can send you to the wall but that is the risk you take.
With all the expense and pain involved a good kid will repay you many times over with things that money cannot buy.
Think of how you can get even when you get old and need their care??
I have 2 kids, now grown. The emotional wear and tear on you is immeasurable. Both are successful, one a doctor, one a large company director. Even with that outcome if I had my time over again I wouldn't have kids. Many folks my age think that, but you're just not supposed to say it.
Wow, thank you for sharing your insight. Do you mind if I ask, do you have a good relationship with them at the moment?
We are great mates.
Haha, yeah I don't think you are meant to say it… Kind of like saying who your favourite child is. You're meant to say "I love them all equally"…
How would you have spent your time if you didn't have kids? Especially if you had more money.
FOXTEL is cheaper!
Sleep.
I have learnt that babies, ALL babies, are pure evil beings with zero regard for the time of day. If you're lucky, they will allow you 10 minutes' nap before the next bout of screaming.
I think the real question is how many kids do you have relative to costs (both financially and lifestyle). Most just have 1 or 2 these days, the burden is too great thereafter.
It will cost lot of money and time but keep in mind we don't live forever. It is easy to survive with some money but difficult to survive with limited time.
Also getting pregnant is not as easy as people think. The miscarriage rate is very high as the women get older. The possibility to conceive is getting lower with time.
In the beginning they don't cost that much. Possibly 5k for the first year. Clothes, nappies, wipes, formula if you chose that, pram, bed, baby swing, baby carrier etc. they cost more once they are at school! Depending on which school you go to private or public. Getting into a good area that has good schools = higher rent. If you can survive on one income until the child is ready for school you are lucky, if one partner is an average earner the govt penalises you for going back to work. For me it's pointless trying to go back to work part time…..I'd be paying for child care and then they reduce the family payments so I'd be working for peanuts! Kids are expensive! Child care is expensive! And I havent gone to the bathroom alone or slept a full 8 hours in 9 years.
Not pointless actually. Keeping yourself employable. I know many mums that are looking for work after being out of work for e for 10+ yrs.
I'd suggest the reward negates any financial burden considered.
You're starting a family, not putting an extension on the house. A child is not a commodity.
Reading this as someone who is having difficulty having any children, is quite disheartening.
My 3 kids are all IVF. There's hope. Goodluck!
According to C.S.A. with combined incomes of $110k. $880 per month (Then $1250 per month >13yrs old. Which is interesting as many suggest the early day care years are more expensive. But I guess more food, hobbies, travel etc).
Therefore $1250 x 2 (each parent) = $2500 per month x 12 months = $30 000.
Assuming your on 35% ish tax rate, you would need around $48000 per kid, or $24000 from each parent.
How they get this number, no idea? But it would suggest 1 kid requires the same amount as approx 2 adults?
But think of all the Birthday deals you can start reaping at their birth. Haha
Pregnancy: Private health will have you about $5000-$6000 out of pocket vs almost free for public service. Also Maternity leave vs working mum salary
Birth to Toddler years: loss of income from taking care of child, daycare costs, family health cover
Preschool and up: Activity costs and fees, restaurant and airfare bills start to climb up as little people start getting charged.
Pregnancy: additional food cost from mum cravings, spending on unnecessary baby gear/car/safety stuff (coping mechanism for new parents)
Birth to Toddler years: Sanity, Vice cost to cope with lack of sleep
Preschool and up: social climbing costs (in schools and with friends)
:) I love my priceless little monsters.
This thread really shows what western society has become. Delaying kids until you can afford them wouldnt be a consideration in a good society. Aside from that having babies over the age of 30 triples the chance of mental issues in the child. Yes its still unlikely to happen but for society that means a large increase in the mentally challenged and also means more money to go to benefits. No wonder the white race is dying with birthrates lower than 2 in just about every western country in the world. The only reason you see population increase is because of immigration. Heck you may even go as far to say there would be no housing affordibility issue, no need to pay off a mortgage if we had no immigration considering the circumstances.
Depends how much you value your time.
Having kids is a money drain, you don't do it for financial benefit.
Also a thing to consider other than monetary costs are the opportunity costs. A lot of your time will be preoccupied providing care and attention to your children. Just because your finances are in order doesnt mean having children is the best next step for you.
Have kids if
1. You believe they will provide meaning to your life
2. If you can see yourself sacrificing a lot of your time, hence sacrificing on interests,socialising and career development
3. You are a really patient and caring person as you need to be able to calmly handle uncooperative lifeforms with a complete lack of understanding of how the world works
4.etc much more to consider
i believe its worth it for me as do others but it may not be worth it for you. Make sure you come to the conclusion that being a parent is the right thing for you before jumping into it.
There is a simple equation that works:
Every time you hear waah that will cost you 50$
Don't over thinking this. Most people will have to make/choose some form of sacrifice for their children, time, money, lifestyle, and etc.
Take the pram for example, you can get one from Kmart for $150 or easily spend over $2500 for a brand name. But have you seen a kid grow up better than others because of the the pram they slept in? In the contrary, I have seen more well mannered teenagers from low-mid income families than the rich or ultra riches. Personally, I'd suggest you make an early decision on your child's education pathway. Public vs. Private vs. Systemic. I have never met anyone regretting having children too early for financial reasons. Only those regretting having them too late in life.
My kids cost me my health - little shits now 22 and 25
I know understand why so many people are moaning about the high price of children. Once you start having children, you immediately join the middle class welfare gravy train. Family Tax Benefit Part A + B + supplements is around $200 per child per week. Kids are effectively free, unless you insist on sending them to private schools. The more children you have, the more money you rake in from the Nanny State.
I don't know what kind of gravy train $200 per week buys you but even if you do the legal minimal amount of parenting then you're still doing serious work for what amounts to a few dollars per hour. I'm pretty sure most children born in Australia are the result of people's primal urges to have sex and procreate rather than some mathematical scheme to rort $200 a week off the government. Even just carrying and birthing a child is serious business that you could not pay me $4,000 per week to deal with for a committed nine months of body madness and then the labour, let alone for just $200 a week.
Here's a University of Canberra sponsored look into cost of raising kids.
http://www.natsem.canberra.edu.au/storage/AMP_NATSEM_33.pdf
Some serious info here.
Depends if you want a smart healthy one or a dumb unhealthy one. My own feeling is that you should not have children unless you can afford to have all their potential education and health needs covered. If you're going to impose a copy of yourself onto the world then you may as well do it right.
Its not the financial cost that you should worry about, its the rest.
Just don't have it. Better for you, your wife, and the planet.
What are options and activities that you are comparing to situation of not having kids? You can travel, or you can buy every latest gizmo or toy!
One advantage of having kids is it keeps you out of your partner's company (ie. after having the kid, not while making it!)
Essentially, your kids could be free. This is OzBargain after all.
Get on Newstart? A health care card, pop out a few kids, get family payments, go on the single pension and hope they all go to prison.
Good Luck.
For a middle income family where both parents work I always thought it was about the cost of buying a ferrari and then having one partner quitting their job to drive it around all day. Maybe I'm cynical…
If u have a look at the black market they can cost between a few hundred dollars depending on country to something like 30k
My baby is 7 months old. Our average cost for 12 months before she was born $5100, since she was born $8230. No day care involved. Grand ma is taking care of her when we are at work. I think cost will go down since most of the cost were for all the baby stuff we bought.
When your son is currently in the formal lounge playing Kiss the Rain.. and you can enjoy a glass of wine n appreciate beautiful piano instrumental music..all those years of piano lessons is worth every cent!!
We r not high income earner. We both work full time and we have 3 kids in private schooling. External paid activities are chess, piano, jazz, viola, club soccer and percussion. About extra $130p/w
Included extra curricular in school fees are debating, strings ensemble, interschool sports each term i.e hockey, volleyball, soccer, afl etc, choir, Jnr concert band, choir, christian dance.
We still manage to get by, we eat out a few times each week due to busy schedules, we take family holidays 2 x a year min and one usually overseas, we have date nights, dh and I go away once or twice a yr together. My kids are lucky, not lacking anything. Hopefully when they are parents themselves they will appreciate how hard we worked and sacrifices we made for them.
My kids have devices for school, laptops n ipads each but usage is restricted at home. There r no toys at home. They either play sports, ride their bikes or practice music or craft. On the rare weekend off we love to go for brunch n go bushwalking/ hiking. They have chores each day taking clothes out online, bringing it in, folding, washing dishes, cooking rice etc My kids are 8,8 and 12.
We hosted a japanese student through our school for 3 weeks. This boy was very lazy n pretty rude but perhaps typical of 15yo. We made time to take him out and supplied 3 meals a day. We were not paid a cent for 3 weeks. Everything we paid for him out of our own money i.e eating out, transport, AFL tickets etc It's fine..
Kids is just not ebout the costs but think if yourself as a taxi driver! Lots of early mornings for befor school curricular, we have to be at school 7am most mornings. Saturday morning games. an start at 7:30 so u need to leave house by 6:30am! each week is at a diff school somewhere which could be pretty far!
My husband is a teacher so in top of work, he is volleyball, soccer snd hockey coordinator for the whole jnr school and he runs other clubs too.
Last night we had soccer training hntil 5pm then quick trip home for dinner n shower n back to school for band concert from 7pm to 9pm. Today I volunterred whole day at Father's Day Stall fundraising.. I took annual leave. I gave each kids $20 each to spend.
It's pretty crazy! my advice is dont put it off too long coz one thing u really need is the energy to keep up with kids! i had kids at 27yo and stayed at home for a few yrs then part time then full time.. you can still recover and work on your career. If I had kids at 37yo I would really struggle…it takes all the energy out of you.
The thing I look forward to most each week is my zumba classes. My fulltime job is also quite hectic.
Work hard Play Harder Eat Delicious Food Travel the World! why not?
Vietnam in 2 weeks.
If you have enough income to support 4 people, then consider having a child. If you are struggling as a two person household, maybe get your life sorted then go at it. My parents spent half a normal salary on me every year. I have prepared a trust fund for my 3 kids with enough money to live on for the rest of their lives when they turn 18.
My 3 kids cost me 50-60k per year ok school fees, kinder fees, clothing, gymnastics, dancing, swimming lessons, little athletics, acrobatics.. gourmet lunch, birthday gifts, birthday gifts for there friends, Christmas gifts…. the list goes on and one
There are 10 things on your list that don't have to be there
At the moment, our 10month old on average costs us no more than $75 a fortnight.
That amount covers nappies, wipes, simple clothing and extra fruit, vegies, yoghurt ect.
http://www.natsem.canberra.edu.au/storage/AMP_NATSEM_33.pdf
Rigorous quantitative data for the win!
You need to consider those costs, and you also need to consider any loss of income and time.
Considering our household income is a few 100 less than the "low income" in that report, with 2 kids under 4, according to the government I've been in poverty almost my whole life. Paying a mortgage and rent at the same time.
Kids adapt very well.
Don't buy red apples for $6/kg because they like them, give them a mandarin or banana for $2/kg. They like them too.
Don't buy expensive meat from the supermarket or butcher. Buy a hindquarter of beef, for example, and share it with someone (or get a bargain freezer) and you can get the prime cuts of meat for less than the price of sausages from the supermarket.
Food in Australia is so cheap relative to income.
Go to a park and play on a slide. If you have a thousand toys at home they won't play with them, but they will play for hours on a slide in the park.
At least in the years before the kids go to school, if you want kids, you should forget about ways to make money, but think about ways to not waste so much money. There is not much point having kids and not being with them as much as you can.
Mmm good advice that I largely agree with. Thanks for the hindquarter tip, I'll have to give that a go.
My 4yo has autism. We get $13k p.a. In NDIS but pay for private preschool $13k and an additional $20k approx out of pocket for therapy.
Big cash but we can afford. Best money we ever spent.
My point is hard to predict expenses. Sometimes life throws you curveballs.
Up to the age of 18 it's $647,372.54.
I've been keeping tabs
Pram $700
Cot $300
Car seats $300 x 2
Change table/mat $250
Breast pump $150
There's 2k on 6 items lol. We don't even tally the costs nowadays.
when I was in High school one of my teachers said 1 kid costs 50.000 euros to graduation!!!
Work out the cost of daycare alone, before government rebates you're looking at at least $90 a day, even with the holidays you get at 50%of the daily rate you're looking at the pointy end of $22500 per child each year….
10-20k per year per child in today's figures. The estimates on the first page seem too high and ludicrous to be true.
Estimates on this page as there are more discussions seem to be converging on more reasonable figures.
We also need to factor in how people on welfare and those on minimum wage jobs would get by. With the other figures you would be determine how much money is actually required.
We also need to factor in narcissism and whether it runs in your genealogy line.
Don't forget there are some middle eastern families that are famous for actually making money whilst on welfare benefits. Go Figure. I think some of these magical budgeters could teach a lot to other ozbargainers here. I sure would want to learn their mythical tricks. I'm sure one could even do paid inspirational like talks. I for sure would go to one, and I'm sure a lot of rich people would pay just to go visit for the novelty or god forbid at the same moment actually learn something. lol.
So, anywhere from 200k-400k in today's figures seems to be the most reasonable. It can be net zero if one is getting topups from the government; just don't expect to pay for the most expensive private schools.
Each year your income changes too, so don't be scared. Don't forget cashback and other bonuses from the family friendly lobbyist measures. This usually applies to most families regardless of whether they are getting welfare.
Go have children, definitely worth it.
But hey, what would a 90+ year old person like me know.
What having great great grandchildren is like?
Seriously, don't have kids. You'll never sleep a good night again.
Best advice: Adopt! Too many kids without parents.