Am I Illegally Not Being Paid Overtime?

LCrylea233 on 29/06/2017 - 21:20
Last edited 30/06/2017 - 01:07 by 2 other users

OK, so I have a dilemma regarding overtime at work.

Since our company now uses an electronic system to clock on and off they've been telling us that if we finish 10 mins early on a shift at the end of the night we don't get paid our overtime for staying back.

I'm a full time employee and stayed back last night for 20 minutes and tonight for 30 minutes.

They reverted the finishing time back to my original shift and dismissed my actual finish time.

When I asked why I wasn't getting over time they said it's because some days you finish 10 minutes early so it makes up for it. I haven't finished 10 minutes early in weeks.

Both the team leader and manager have said this.

I'm not the only one this has happened too.

What are my options?

Education & Work

Comments

  • TheBilly on 29/06/2017 - 21:38
    +3

    Some companies have too much power or are never straight about their expectations. I.e. I work full time for a salary, sometimes I work 5 days 9-4.30 and on bad periods 6-7 days 7-7/8… wont get a single dollar of overtime. Knowing the dynamics of my work place I wouldn't even ask as the option's would be, just do it, or leave. Is it illegal, yes, can you do anything about it, probably no. You get to choose the environment you work in I guess.

    • [Deactivated] on 29/06/2017 - 21:46
      +1

      Is it illegal, yes

      Depends on your situation. You're probably on an individual contract that says 'reasonable overtime'.

      • TheBilly on 29/06/2017 - 21:49
        +1

        "Hours necessary to complete allocated tasks" lol same thing

        • Scrooge McDuck on 29/06/2017 - 21:59
          +1

          Start working on whatever it is you need to have finished sufficiently earlier so that you complete it by the end of your rostered shift.

          Then when quittin' time comes, simply walk out.

  • Baysew on 29/06/2017 - 21:39
    +6

    Were you required to work overtime and was this authorised by team leader or manager?

    If not, why should you be paid for just "staying back"?

  • [Deactivated] on 29/06/2017 - 21:44

    Short of naming and shaming your employer through a media outlet, there isn't much you can do.

    If you make a complaint through fair work Australia, you can kiss you job goodbye and any compensation you might receive will be minimal.

    • Wystri Warrick on 29/06/2017 - 23:20
      +1

      Yes, I met a young gentleman in hospital (he was suffering from depression and anxiety) he used to work at a car wreckers?, or some place dismantling metal stuffs?, he and all the other employees would work in ridiculous conditions, in 40+ temps in the burning sun and inside a shed which was even hotter, they had no protection from the sun, he made a cardboard cone hat, no safety protection/equipment, they where paid $10 an hour.

      He and other employees had been threatened with violence from one of the managers men.

      On the second time requesting better working conditions, the manager fired him, he contacted fair work and police and fair work showed up the next working day.

      He was out of work for a few months before I met him, he was showing me photos on his phone and everything.

      Sadly there really isn't much you can do, unless you want to lose you job.

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 30/06/2017 - 00:23
          +6

          What a downright scummy attitude. You should move to the US, you'd love it there.

        • pais on 30/06/2017 - 01:33
          +1

          Who needs empathy or WHS when you've got Vinnies?

  • PVA on 29/06/2017 - 22:03
    +3

    just staying back ten min or so is not OT. I would not think any one gets paid for clocking off ten minutes past finish.
    OT is more when the employer asks you to work back.

    But check with your union.

    • airal3rt on 29/06/2017 - 23:01
      +1

      He's not asking for overtime rates, but if you're paid by the hour you should be paid for the time worked. If you get the OK to leave 20 minutes early, you won't get paid for that. And by the same token if they makes you stay back 15 minutes, you need to be paid for that. The only time unpaid overtime can be considered is once you have a job that pays a salary, then there will naturally be unpaid overtime on odd occasions.

      • PVA on 30/06/2017 - 19:34

        thats not what I was saying.

        I am all for the person being paid for the work they do but 10-20 minutes could be just slow at clocking off - unless the employer asked you to work past the normal time it isnt OT.

        Like I said, check with the union - or fair work aust.

  • trustnoone on 29/06/2017 - 22:09
    +1

    Ask them for a print out of your clock times for the last few weeks? (Might be a nice way you can do this, like you're interested to see what times you arrive or something). If they can check and see you leaving early, then they should be able to check and print it out for you to see.

  • rambao9 on 29/06/2017 - 22:23
    +1

    But if you consider the amount of time you are not working during working hours, minus breaks, 10-20 minutes isn't really too much.

  • pjetson on 29/06/2017 - 22:30
    +5

    If you're not being paid fairly, don't work fairly.

  • rambutann on 29/06/2017 - 22:49
    +1

    Yeah I wouldn't classify anything under an hour as 'working overtime' in a full time position. If you were a casual then sure.

    This obviously depends on the industry but I still dont believe that you should be devastated that you're not entitled to OT when you're talking about such a short amount of OT.

    • pais on 30/06/2017 - 01:40
      +3

      Yeah, I'd agree with this.

      I'm a swings and roundabouts kind of guy. I appreciate the managers who notice when I work OT (even just a half hour a few days a week) and offer me a day or half day in lieu every now and then. I try to do the same with my team, so that it all comes out in the wash.

      Something I've noticed is that the people who monitor their clock time at the end of the day are the ones who don't monitor it in the morning.. or on breaks. I've seen a few buck the trend, but in general the guys that are out the door at 4:59p are the ones that can't seem to tell the time for the rest of the day.

  • cnmarine on 29/06/2017 - 22:55
    +1

    <30 min every now and then's not overtime and "staying back" is not overtime. Overtime is when your boss asks you to stay back and work or when you asks your boss if you can stay back and work because you didn't finish whatever you were doing. You can't just chill out and claim overtime lol.

  • ednamekin on 29/06/2017 - 23:00

    If you're full time employed and you have the pesky "reasonable additional hours" in your contract then tough luck.

    This can't be done in retro, but one thing you can start is to send a short note to your team leader each time you're clocking off; this will create your trail of proof.

  • airal3rt on 29/06/2017 - 23:09
    +1

    OP I'm assuming that you're paid hourly due to the fact your employers are checking up on your swipe card times. If they don't pay you for staying back, just don't stay back, you need to be paid for your time worked. Many places will push their employees into this sort of behaviour if they can get away with it, but it's bullshit and I'd call them out on it. Contact the union if need be.

    Of course, if you're getting paid a salary the odd 10-20 mins of unpaid overtime goes with the territory and you shouldn't be complaining about it.

  • Ughhh on 29/06/2017 - 23:16

    I guess the question is, were you asked to stay back or did you stay back yourself? If you were asked to, then you should get overtime. If the latter, don't think you can get it. All you can do is leave when you are supposed to finish, otherwise everyone can work like a sloth to deliberately get OT rates.

  • Crylea233 on 30/06/2017 - 00:08

    I didn't ask to stay back. We all had to stay back because we were short staffed as usual. It has been a last minute thing. We had no choice. The work needed to be done.

    I'm just wondering if they can say we don't get paid for half an hour of overtime because they let us leave 5-10 minutes early some nights.

    I'm a full time employee. Contracted 38 hours. I just thought anything over 38 hours is over time and I'm entitled to it whether or not they let us clock off 5 minutes learnt some times.

    • Flying Ace on 30/06/2017 - 08:04

      Is this in a retail workplace? As far as I know, clocking back (reverting your finish time to your rostered time, ignoring the extra time you work) is illegal.

      Check with your union rep.

      • Brendanonymous on 30/06/2017 - 12:04

        In the retail businesses I've worked in, if you're a casual, they don't have to pay you if it's not "approved overtime" - e.g. if a manager doesn't say to you "stay back an extra 15 minutes", they don't pay you. But if they ask/tell you to stay then they have to pay. Might be a matter of "company policy" rather than legal requirements but that's what I've experienced.

        If you're a full timer then most businesses wouldn't consider 30 mins to be significant overtime.

    • Ughhh on 30/06/2017 - 13:31

      So there was still work to do, and you decided to stay back or did the manager tell you to stay back? Big difference.

  • yellowfever on 30/06/2017 - 00:09

    OP's story has many missing elements that any feedback provided could be unhelpful.
    "Overtime" the OP is asking for is either penalty rate of working extended hours, or the OP is asking for the standard rate for the actual time worked.
    In either scenario, my opinion is to give and take, and build a relationship with your boss. You can resolve matters alot easier if you have a good relationship with your boss.
    If you have 2 managers refusing overtime allowance, and you haven't been able to convince either of them of your entitlements, they are either dealing with this matter unlawfully, or there is an issue with understanding the overtime allowance from either parties.
    Also, unless you really have to, leaving early is never ideal as it just creates a bad perception of yourself in the workplace.

    • Crylea233 on 30/06/2017 - 00:18

      Sorry I don't leave early by choice. Once the work is done we are dismissed.

  • Euphemistic on 30/06/2017 - 06:18

    If it is a little bit of give and take that is probably fine. If it is a consistent staying back you should be getting overtime, even if it is saved up and collected at the end of the pay period. I've if you have 10mins a day for 3 days it should be 30min OT, but if you then left 15min early on the other two it cancels out.

    Check your contract, speak with fair work (maybe anonymously first), then speak to your employer.

    If necessary, make sure that if you are required for 25min OT, then stay for 31 before you clock out.

  • Limitless on 30/06/2017 - 08:22

    So you get paid for the full hour when you left 10 mins early? Majority of companies work on a give and take basis. Ask if you can leave 20mins early one day and gauge the reaction. My guess is if you are working 20mins overtime a day for a week straight then ask to leave early one day they wouldn't have a problem with it at all.

    If you are only staying back 2 times a month but leave early 2 times a month it balances out and is silly for companies to monitor the clock to the minute. Never had a lunch break go 10mins over? Car accident caused you to be 20mins late? I imagine you would be even more pissed off it you got deducted money for those instances.

    I put in many hours of unpaid overtime but i know that if i need to leave 30mins early i have easily worked off that time. I even get told to go home an hour early sometimes!

  • [Deactivated] on 30/06/2017 - 09:00
    +2

    Speak to a union. Like what they do? Join a union.

  • carer1 on 30/06/2017 - 09:05
    -5

    try being a carer 24/7 just cos I care for 2 family members Im not legally recognised as a worker and the government gets away with pay me and those like me $3.50 an hour no superannuation no holidays etc

  • Halo375 on 30/06/2017 - 09:27

    This situation sounds a lot like Aldi's policy as published recently by Fairfax: http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace-relations/retail-gi…

    Check your employment contract carefully - it's likely they're just enforcing what you've already agreed to (unwittingly - likely). If it isn't mentioned in your employment agreement then it's time to escalate and speak up, be professional about it, try to document everything and good luck.

  • crayner on 30/06/2017 - 12:10
    +1

    If this is retail, you should join a union and discuss the matter with them.

    http://raffwu.org.au

  • dylanando on 30/06/2017 - 19:25
    +2

    My job is 7mins either way. If I do overtime i either have to take it off within the week or it 'magically' disappears.

  • MessyG on 30/06/2017 - 21:08

    What does your contract say?

  • Hardlyworkin on 01/07/2017 - 09:52

    Yeah join a retail Union like SDA…. If you're searching for where to find them, check the bed of your employer….

  • Hardlyworkin on 01/07/2017 - 09:56

    Keep your own record of the hours you are doing and check the actual hours you work each month. Best to use an online app or diary to show your record is contemporaneous. If you're doing more minutes/ hours each month, use this to have a discussion with your boss… Ask if you will be getting time in lieu or overtime pay… In conjunction with what you have agreed to… Eg your contract.

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