Amex Velocity v's Amex Explorer

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American Express

• 

  playbargain on 17/06/2017 - 16:35

  -1

  Apply Velocity, get bonus, call up and change card product to Expolore.

  • 

    smith001122 on 17/06/2017 - 16:39

    The difference in points is worth paying the $375 annual fee? Even if I have no immediate use for them?

    • 

      playbargain on 17/06/2017 - 17:21

      -2

      You can sell the free VA ticket and lounge pass to recoup the fee.

      • 

        illumination on 17/06/2017 - 17:33

        +2

        Is the lounge access not simply a digitally recorded access attached to your credit card, and therefore unable to be sold?

      • 

        smith001122 on 17/06/2017 - 18:09

        I would use the return ticket though as I live on the Sunshine Coast and my family is in Sydney. I'm sure I wouldn't get too much if I sold it? What's the average price people buy it for?

      • 

        [Deactivated] on 18/06/2017 - 01:23

        @smith001122:

        Between $220 - $250.

      • 

        Shad on 18/06/2017 - 05:10

        @smith001122:
        Can be easily sold for 250

  • 

    illumination on 17/06/2017 - 16:48

    Can you actually do that though?

    Agree with this option if it can be done though.

    • 

      smith001122 on 17/06/2017 - 17:20

      Can what be done?

      • 

        illumination on 17/06/2017 - 17:31

        +1

        Asking if a "product change" can actually be done. The question was primarily aimed at playbargain who suggested it. I have also seen it suggested in the past but am not aware whether it's actually possible. I assume if it is possible, it would only be possible to switch between cards of the same rewards program. These two cards are not from the same rewards program so I am doubtful.

• 

  smith001122 on 17/06/2017 - 16:47

  I like having the flexibility of the Amex rewards and feel I would be wasting the bonus I could get on the Explorer card. If I transfer them to velocity eventually then yes I'm about half worse off but if I go for the velocity card I've paid $400 for those extra points.
  Does that make sense or I'm over thinking it?

  • 

    illumination on 17/06/2017 - 17:11

    +8

    I don't think you're overthinking it, but I think you're certainly neglecting some of the other features of the card.

    As an example, here would be my breakdown of the two cards:

    AMEX Explorer:

    • 50k Membership Rewards Gateway points (60k with referral) - worth ~$400 in Coles Gift Cards
    • $395 Annual Fee
    • $400 Travel Credit, usable on flights, hotels, experiences, car hire
    • 2x entries to the Sydney International Airport AMEX Lounge per calendar year
    • 2 Membership Rewards points/$ (equivalent to 1.5 Asia Miles, KrisFlyer Miles, Velocity Points, Etihad Guest)
    • Rental Excess (Car Hire) Cover
    • Travel Insurance (requiring a return ticket, paid for on the card)
    • Smartphone Screen Insurance
    • Extended Manufacturer's Warranty

    AMEX Velocity Platinum:

    • 100k Velocity Points - worth ~$550 in Coles Gift Cards
    • $375 Annual Fee
    • Free Domestic Flight per card year (includes PER-SYD, PER-ADL) - which can kinda be sold on Ozbargain for ~$250
    • 2x entries to the Sydney International Airport AMEX Lounge per calendar year
    • 1.5 Velocity points/$ (equivalent to 1.1 KrisFlyer pts/$)
    • Travel Insurance (does not require a return ticket)
    • 2x Virgin Australia lounge passes per card year

    To me, the key differences here are:

    • Ignoring the points bonuses, the net annual fee of the Velocity Platinum is more expensive, when factoring in the value of the free flight relative to the Travel Credit - unless you live in Perth and would actually use the PER-SYD/PER-ADL return ticket yourself anyway (or if you know you can somehow sell your flight for >$375).
    • The effective annual fee of the AMEX Explorer, if you think you'll realistically and reasonably use the Travel Credit anyway, can be seen as $0 (Annual Fee less Travel Credit)
    • The ongoing earn rate (points) of Explorer is much better than that of the Velocity Platinum, seeing as you earn 1.5pts/$ as a standard base on the Explorer. You'll also get the opportunity to take advantage of transfer bonuses like these which has the potential to increase potential earn rate even more
    • The eligibility for the Travel Insurance on the Velocity Platinum is better due to a more lenient qualifying criteria (you can book a one-way ticket which does not even touch Australia), but the payouts on the Explorer are higher. As an example, I believe a flight needs to be delayed by 6 hours before you'll get any payout with the Velocity Platinum vs 4 hours on the Explorer
    • The overall insurances of the Explorer are better because you get more types of insurances. Car Hire, Extended Manufacturer's Warranty, and Smartphone Screen Insurance are the ones that Velocity Platinum do not include.

    If you're after "cash" (gift cards), then get the AMEX Velocity Platinum (because of the sign up bonus)
    If you're after a good long term card with a decent sign-up bonus, get the AMEX Explorer.

    It's pretty close but I think if I was in your situation, the Explorer would just edge it for me.

    • 

      smith001122 on 17/06/2017 - 18:08

      +1

      Thank you for your reply, just the sort of reply I was looking for!

      I wasn't neglecting the other features, I've actually done a similar comparison myself earlier today and the Explorer definitely came out on top for me, I just kept coming back to the 100k Velocity points and didn't want to to miss out on them and want to make sure I wasn't missing something. Also I can get 70k bonus points with explorer which equals to 52,500 velocity points if I decide to transfer them over later (which means I'm essentially paying $375 for 47,500 points if I go with velocity because I'll have to pay the annual fee). Im more likely to use the points with Singapore Airlines so if I convert either of the bonus points to KrisFlyer I'll get 74,074 on the Velocity card or 52,500 on the Explorer card (so taking into account the velocity annual fee, I'll be paying $375 for 21,574 KrisFlyer points).

      And nope I don't live in Perth, I live on the Sunshine Coast so would use the velocity free flight as Maroochydore to Sydney to visit my family.

      Just on the earn rate you mentioned, I've worked out that's the same? 1.5 velocity point per $1 spent on both cards, no?

      • 

        illumination on 18/06/2017 - 01:21

        but if I go for the velocity card I've paid $400 for those extra points.

        I think I might've misunderstood this. I interpreted this as you assuming that the annual fee was waived for the first year for one of the cards (it's not waived for either).

        Seeing as you've decided on either the Explorer or the Velocity Platinum though, the difference in annual fee is really only $20 ($375 Velocity Platinum vs $395 Explorer), so ignoring everything else except the bonus points, you're "saving" $20 but getting double the equivalent in Velocity Points (i.e. 45k Velocity Points vs 100k Velocity Points) so I didn't quite get what you meant by "paid $400 for those extra points".

        If you're sure you'll get more use out of 100k Velocity points vs 45k potential Velocity points, then I think it's still a fairly easy decision. Get the Velocity Platinum first for the bonus, and shortly afterwards (or apply for both at the same time if you're willing) you can get the Explorer (without the bonus) for its ongoing earn rate/benefits.

        Also I can get 70k bonus points with explorer

        How? It's 50k without referral and 60k with referral.

        so taking into account the velocity annual fee, I'll be paying $375 for 21,574 KrisFlyer points

        But it's really actually paying $375 for 100k Velocity Points (74k KrisFlyer), or $395 for 45k Velocity/KrisFlyer, or "saving" $20 to get 29k KrisFlyer points.

        MCY-SYD return - how much does that normally cost (cash)? If <$250 and you're not picky about airline, it might be more financially efficient to sell the flight and pay cash for MCY-SYD return.

        I've worked out that's the same? 1.5 velocity point per $1 spent on both cards, no?

        Yes Explorer has an effective ongoing earn rate of 1.5 KrisFlyer/Velocity per dollar, but it's 2 Membership Rewards Gateway/$. You need 4 Membership Rewards Gateway points to get 3 KrisFlyer/Velocity points hence the "equivalent". I also spoke about a 15% bonus that comes round from time to time - Virgin tend to run it twice a year which increases your potential points per dollar to 1.72pts/$.

        The Velocity Platinum is a consistent 1.5pt/$. We're on the same page.

      • 

        smith001122 on 18/06/2017 - 07:28

        @illumination:

        Basically I see the $400 travel credit as wiping out the Explorer annual fee as I would use it. But the free flight doesn't wipe out the velocity annual fee so that's why I'm saying I'm essential paying $375 for those extra points. I could break it down even further if you want, say I sold it for $200 for arguments sake, then I've paid $175 for those extra points.

      • 

        smith001122 on 18/06/2017 - 07:32

        @illumination:

        I do have a dream of flying business class to the UK one day so the extra points would certainly help towards that goal but is "paying" $175 for 47,500 Velocity points worth it?

      • 

        smith001122 on 18/06/2017 - 09:10

        @illumination:

        I think I'm just going to apply for Explorer and forget about the extra points on velocity. I don't want the hassle of having to change the cards later with the possibility of them knocking back the change and then having to apply for Explorer later which maybe declined plus the extra enquiry on my credit file. Plus I don't want to be earning velocity points on the Velocity card in the first 3 months to get the bonus when I can be earning 2 MR points on the explorer from the get go.

      • 

        donkcat on 19/06/2017 - 20:21

        @smith001122:
        Well most likely if it's a business class ticket to the UK then the Velocity points would be used to transfer to Krisflyer to fly Singapore airlines to the UK. So those 47500 Velocity points become 35184 Krisflyer miles.

        Now you would need to spend $23456.00 on the explorer card to earn those 35184 Krisflyer miles so the $175 seems like a bargain.

        This all depends on your spending habits but have you considered getting the Velocity card, spending the $1500 to get the points. After getting the points using/selling the flight you could get the platinum edge card. The platinum edge card has no annual fee at the moment in the first year, it puts you on the higher earning ascent rewards program that transfers 1:1 into the same airline partners as the explorer does at .75:1. The platinum edge has a $195 annual fee but comes with $200 travel credit. It earns 3 points per $ for spend at supermarkets, 2 points per $ on fuel and 1 point per $ on general spend. You can accumulate points very quickly with this card, doing things like purchasing gift cards from supermarkets for bunnings etc to maximise the 3 points per $.

        You need to keep in mind how often you'll be able to use your amex for spends outside of the supermarket and fuel for the explorer card to pay off, many retailers don't accept amex or charge a fee to do so. This is something you need to way up.

      • 

        smith001122 on 19/06/2017 - 20:29

        @donkcat:

        Thanks for your comment. I actually applied for the explorer last night so my decision is done. I'm considering the platinum edge later on as I like the 3 points at the supermarket idea. The explorer suited my needs at the moment.

        In regards to the Amex outside supermarkets and petrol, I have an amex now and I find it quite rare that it is rejected or there is a surcharge, I use it for almost everything. When I can't it I use my visa but my spend is probably 90/10%

      • 

        donkcat on 19/06/2017 - 21:30

        @smith001122:

        Yeah fair enough, I'm from the country so don't get to use the AMEX as much outside of the supermarkets and fuel. If you get the platinum edge you can try and have your gateway points converted to the ascent program. I've heard some people have had success with that.

    • 

      w37hsyea on 30/12/2019 - 15:50

      One of the best replies on this site. Thank you.

      • 

        JacobHarvey on 30/12/2019 - 21:22

        Yes but it is from 2017 so this part "2 Membership Rewards points/$ (equivalent to 1.5 Asia Miles, KrisFlyer Miles, Velocity Points, Etihad Guest)" is no longer correct for the Amex Explorer.

        The conversion rate decreased from April 2019 onwards - 2 Membership Rewards Points is now only equivalent to 1 point in those other programs (Asia Miles etc.).

        Also the Velocity Platinum's earn rate decreased at the same time so it now only earns 1.25 Velocity Points/$ (down from 1.5/$)

• 

  T-man on 17/06/2017 - 21:27

  Get the Explorer as the Gateway MR is more flexible, you can transfer the points to different airlines and hotel programs. For example, you can transfer MR point to SPG point and from there you can transfer to all most other airlines in the world at the ratio 1:1

• 

  Bigsta on 17/06/2017 - 23:34

  -1

  is there any referral links you guys know off to increase the sign up bonus?

  • 

    Peck on 19/06/2017 - 22:11

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/wiki/list_of_referral_links

• 

  lilkid28 on 18/06/2017 - 09:19

  OP,

  I would recommend going for Velocity first also. Take the free flight and use it for about 11.5 months. Then before next annual fee is due, do a product change to Explorer card. You simply get at least an extra 40k Velocity points now. Unless your spending patterns are high and need the Explorer and can utilise the travel credit effectively also.

  • 

    smith001122 on 18/06/2017 - 09:31

    I think I've made my decision to go explorer, this is why.

    "I think I'm just going to apply for Explorer and forget about the extra points on velocity. I don't want the hassle of having to change the cards later with the possibility of them knocking back the change and then having to apply for Explorer later which maybe declined plus the extra enquiry on my credit file. Plus I don't want to be earning velocity points on the Velocity card in the first 3 months to get the bonus when I can be earning 2 MR points on the explorer from the get go."

  • 

    smith001122 on 18/06/2017 - 09:35

    I'm more likely to want to use them on Singapore airlines than virgin so I want to be earning 1.5 KrisFlyer for $1 spent from the get go (instead of earning 1.5 velocity and then transferring over to KrisFlyet at a 1.35 loss)

• 

  Peck on 19/06/2017 - 15:09

  Sometime ago I made a confusing note on my personal file that my AMEX Explorer had a monthly or a single spend max of 10,000 points. Now I don't know why I did that. Mr Google of no assistance.
  Does anyone know of any max points earning on any AMEX cards? Thanks.
  PS Its ok….give myself an uppercut! That was a bonus points offer…….long since gone.

• 

  Bigsta on 19/06/2017 - 23:15

  With the velocity amex, if you dont take the free flight does it rollover into the next year or do you forfeit it?

  • 

    smith001122 on 20/06/2017 - 12:12

    +1

    I believe you forfeit it

    • 

      jason andrade on 26/06/2017 - 09:57

      Can confirm. I tried to book it one day after the expiry and VA and Amex both simply noted I had forfeited it.

      Very annoying (and of course one of those mistakes that kills the value of the deal..)

• 

  smith001122 on 23/06/2017 - 20:49

  Does anyone know how long a cars takes to arrive after approval? I applied last Sunday and am still waiting for my new card to arrive :(