Auspost Lost My Package, PayPal and eBay Denied My Claim

blergmonkeys on 03/05/2017 - 20:05

So I bought a modem router on eBay a month ago. After it not showing up and contacting the eBay seller a week ago, I filed a dispute with eBay. They denied the claim saying the seller provided a tracking number showing it was delivered (never provided to me). After much arguments over the phone, eBay gave me the tracking and it showed that the package was delivered to the wrong address. They still denied the claim despite me pointing this out.

I then made a claim to PayPal and they also denied it. I explained that it was sent the the wrong address and the seller probably wrote the wrong address. Apparently they sent PayPal a pic of the shipping label showing my address and this was enough to deny the claim. Even though the tracking clearly shows it wasn't delivered to my address.

This is insane. They refused to look at the case again. What a crock of shit. The seller could have easily forged the shipping label pic. Further, eBay removed my negative feedback as I lost the dispute.

What do I do now?

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Comments

  • Ughhh on 03/05/2017 - 20:08

    I thought tracking only showed the postcode (and maybe suburb), it shows the exact address now?

    • Baebs on 03/05/2017 - 20:12
      +1

      Only shows suburb for me as well.

    • blergmonkeys on 03/05/2017 - 20:12
      +8

      It was delivered to the wrong post code and suburb.

      • whooah1979 on 03/05/2017 - 22:07

        It was delivered to the wrong post code and suburb.

        how far is the suburb from your address?

        • blergmonkeys on 03/05/2017 - 22:10

          About 5km which makes me think the seller must have sent it to the wrong address and is now lieing about it. Dodgy (profanity).

        • foxmulder on 03/05/2017 - 22:12
          +4

          @blergmonkeys: the suburb is within proximity of your suburb. Perhaps it is where the articles get distributed in your area but not necessarily it means the seller has used the wrong address.

        • blergmonkeys on 03/05/2017 - 22:14

          problem is my collection depots are nowhere near this one. This one doesn't even show up as an option. On speaking to aus post, they confirmed it was definitely delivered but not to my address.

        • whooah1979 on 03/05/2017 - 22:15

          @blergmonkeys:

          About 5km

          just like foxmulder said. ap some times shows the dc/hub where the mail articles are acc.

        • blergmonkeys on 03/05/2017 - 22:16

          @whooah1979: unfortunately as above, it's been delivered to another address on speaking to aus post. It's not in a collection facility.

    • paloverde88 on 04/05/2017 - 23:02

      Tracking number now has a show?

  • Almost Banned on 03/05/2017 - 20:12
    +6

    Go around to the other address and ask for your parcel?

    • blergmonkeys on 03/05/2017 - 20:13
      +1

      Don't have the actual address. Just that it was delivered to the wrong suburb and post code.

      • dogboy on 04/05/2017 - 19:12
        +2

        This seems crazy to me. How can it be delivered to another suburb/postcode with the same street number/name? If that is the case then you know the address. If not, then how could Auspost have delivered it? Correct me if I am wrong but if there is no matching street number/name at the other suburb then they can't have delivered it.

        • blergmonkeys on 04/05/2017 - 19:48

          I find it crazy as well.

  • singingwolf on 03/05/2017 - 20:54
    +2

    File a claim with Aus post

    You won't get much though.

    International I got $70.

  • nrg2010 on 03/05/2017 - 20:54
    +21

    Credit card charge back?

    • tomsco on 03/05/2017 - 20:58
      +16

      That will get PayPal moving.

      • blergmonkeys on 03/05/2017 - 22:02
        +1

        On threatening this to PayPal, they told me to basically shove it. The person on the phone was a huge dick about it.

        • Diji1 on 03/05/2017 - 22:10
          +53

          So go ahead and do it.

    • blergmonkeys on 03/05/2017 - 22:01
      +3

      Just filed one. How does this work? Never done one before.

      • garetz on 03/05/2017 - 23:27
        +16

        The onus is on them to prove you recieved it, when they provide the tracking, and the tracking shows it was delivered to the wrong address, then thats proof you never recieved it, and your chargeback becomes successful.

      • Scab on 04/05/2017 - 07:36
        +13

        How does this work? Never done one before.

        Chargeback terms are much more generous than PayPal/eBay.

        With a chargeback, the seller has to actually prove you received the item, as opposed to PayPal/eBay where the seller merely has to prove they sent something to your address.

        The bank will ask the seller to prove receipt of the goods and if they can't the funds will be restored to your account.

        • Miss B on 04/05/2017 - 20:45
          +1

          *To someone's address, apparently.

    • Samsungnote10 on 14/05/2017 - 11:31

      Can you do charge backs by credit card

      Years ago cba denied my chargee back as they said it was a third party via PayPal.

      Seems to me if you could do a charge back for PayPal everyone would be doing it and people wouldn't bother with a eBay dispute

      Ftr. I hate paypal

  • HardQuiz on 03/05/2017 - 22:49
    +3

    In the other suburb/postcode is there a similar street like yours?

  • garetz on 03/05/2017 - 23:26
    +1

    Your last option is to do a chargeback on your credit card.

    • tomsco on 03/05/2017 - 23:37
      +35

      That is so 2 and a half hours ago.

      • ireadtermsofuse on 04/05/2017 - 18:59

        Oi. I heard chargeback is the best bet

    • blergmonkeys on 04/05/2017 - 07:23
      +11

      Buyer protection specifically states protection in case the package never arrives. I am highly suspicious it was sent to the wrong address given how bad the communication from the seller has been. And no, the seller never gave the tracking number. I am sure about that as I asked for it multiple times.

    • Scab on 04/05/2017 - 07:30
      +3

      How is it Pay Pal or Ebays fault?

      If they shipped to the wrong address, it's their responsibility to refund.

      Regardless, your complaint is with Aus Post.

      Nope, the receiver can't instigate a missing item claim, it has to be the seller as they are the ones who sent the item via AP.

      • pjcook on 05/05/2017 - 08:56
        -6

        Pay Pal and/or Ebay did not ship the package, the seller did…..

  • Scab on 04/05/2017 - 07:31

    I then made a claim to PayPal

    You cannot, if you claim via eBay you cannot do a PayPal claim, it's one or the other.

    eBay gave me the tracking and it showed that the package was delivered to the wrong address.

    Then eBay are wrong, the seller has to prove delivery to the PayPal address, if it shows delivery to another address then you should be covered.

    Try ringing them and explain to them that it was shipped to the wrong address.

    If that fails, then your options are the Financial Ombudsman or a chargeback if PayPal is funded by a card.

    • paloverde88 on 04/05/2017 - 23:04

      ye you cannot do a double jeopardy or a triple threat lucky dip

  • lazyevenings on 04/05/2017 - 07:51

    Did the seller send the parcel through click and send? Do you actually have any evidence that they changed the address?

    In my extensive experience on eBay, they only favour the seller when they can see on their side that it WAS sent to the correct address. Regardless, the seller should open an investigation with Australia Post.

    • blergmonkeys on 04/05/2017 - 07:56
      +1

      Not that I can see. I see they used an express envelope. I don't have any evidence other than it was delivered to a place not even close to my address.

      In my limited experience with eBay (this case), they are obviously favoring the seller with no proof of me receiving the item.

      Seller hasn't once communicated with me directly. It's very frustrating.

      • lazyevenings on 04/05/2017 - 08:39
        +1

        The lack of communication from the seller is probably the big red flag in comparison to the delivery scan. Best of luck.

      • KaraZorEl on 04/05/2017 - 15:15

        Has PayPal/eBay seen any proof that the seller actually sent the package with the correct address? I'd be asking for a photo that shows tracking number and your address in the same shot. Whenever I'm selling something on eBay, I always take photos that show both in the same shot.

      • sulmar on 06/05/2017 - 01:56

        You know your case my be legit but there's people that I know who scam sellers for a living by doing funky shiet like receiving the item but making claims they never got it.

        I guess its time ebay got serious about it and yeah, you're just on the wrong side of it.

        Even though I feel bad for you, I think ebay is doing the right thing with taking a strong stance on this matter. Far too long have buyers gotten away with frauds and what not.

        Anyways, I hope credit charge back or something works out for you and you get your money back.

    • paloverde88 on 04/05/2017 - 23:05
      +1

      The seller should open more than an investigation with AusPost they need to open up to transparency.

  • katz on 04/05/2017 - 08:05
    +9

    Do a credit card charge back with the bank (this is why I ALWAYS PAY WITH CREDIT CARD via PayPal . Never pay with PayPal credit).

    The bank charge bank process is the best, be honest with what happen and you will get your money back. Ebay and PayPal are the WORST with this sh!t. Best thing is, PayPal will lose out here as the card company will charge them back.

    • Scab on 04/05/2017 - 08:10
      +2

      Best thing is, PayPal will lose out here as the card company will charge them back.

      Only if the seller isn't eligible for Seller Protection, otherwise they just wave it through.

      They'll probably wear the chargeback in this case though as they've deemed the seller to have jumped through their hoops, although the OP states it was shipped to the wrong address which should mean they aren't eligible.

      • blergmonkeys on 04/05/2017 - 10:06
        +4

        I just find it so frustrating because their reason for refusal is ridiculous. It obviously was delivered to the wrong place, but they have denied the case. The seller hasn't once communicated directly with me or tried to resolve the issue and AP is useless, as always. Hate this sh!t.

        • Scab on 04/05/2017 - 11:20
          +1

          It obviously was delivered to the wrong place, but they have denied the case.

          If it's a different address than your PayPal address then they shouldn't have denied it and I have no idea why they did.

          Anyway, just do a chargeback and you'll get your money.

        • ssyl9 on 04/05/2017 - 18:36
          +1

          All I can think of is that the reason being they think it is at fault of the postman for delivering to the wrong address and they think OP is barking up the wrong tree (Seller provided photo of shipping details)

          They still should refund it with the buyers protection though…

  • djkelly69 on 04/05/2017 - 12:38
    +2

    Agree with chargeback, but I believe it has been mentioned here before that Paypal may lock/block your account if you do this? May be something the OP wants to consider if he uses Paypal frequently or for a business, etc.

    • Scab on 04/05/2017 - 15:23

      Paypal may lock/block your account if you do this?

      They don't for the odd chargeback, it's only if you do a lot of them.

      And in cases where the seller isn't eligible for Seller Protection, they just pass the chargeback onto the seller so they lose nothing.

  • Zachary on 04/05/2017 - 13:12
    +1

    Wow….. I hope I don't get into this sort of mess…..let us know how it goes….

    I guess it does pay to own a credit card……..

    • Scab on 04/05/2017 - 15:24
      +4

      Don't need a credit card, a debit card has the same protection.

      Chargeback is provided by Visa/Mastercard, so whether it's a credit or debit card doesn't matter.

      • Zachary on 08/05/2017 - 12:18

        I was told you can only do a charge back on credit cards……you got any links to prove that? Because I could use them in case my bank says "No charge backs are allowed on debit cards" and then I go onto to show them the article and then they'll be like "Ohh okay then, I guess I'm wrong, lets do that charge back as requested!"

        • Zachary on 08/05/2017 - 15:31

          @tomsco: Oh cool thanks

          (when you select 'credit')

          I don't think paypal gives you an option for that, do they…?

          Also I noticed the site is from VIC, does this apply nationally or just for VIC state? Because usually if its on a state specific site, then it would only apply to that state only…..

        • tomsco on 08/05/2017 - 15:37

          @Zachary: I'd say by paying online it would be the "credit" function.

        • Scab on 09/05/2017 - 06:14

          @Zachary:

          I don't think paypal gives you an option for that, do they…?

          You have to make sure your PayPal account is funded by a card and not directly from your bank account.

          Also I noticed the site is from VIC, does this apply nationally or just for VIC state?

          It's national, and as I stated earlier, it's not the banks who provide chargebacks, it's Visa/Mastercard.

  • Cfoo123 on 04/05/2017 - 16:46
    +2

    you could take it up with the financial services ombudsman, i've heard of some success with that avenue

    • bod311 on 04/05/2017 - 17:26
      +1

      I have done that in the past with PayPal as a seller when they breached their own t&c's. They will generally cave if it's a small amount. It's not worth them fighting it out.

    • eggboi on 04/05/2017 - 17:39
      +3

      I was sent counterfeit memory cards on ebay a few months back. Ebay was insisting I send them back to the seller at my own expense until I got the financial ombudsman service involved. They then dropped the whole thing and said they'd provide me a "good will refund". Ebay and paypal are both useless when you need their help for issues where the seller can show they sent you something, even if it was an empty envelope.

      • rambao9 on 04/05/2017 - 19:00
        +1

        Same here, "as a gesture of good will we will credit your account back bull crap".

        And on that same email continuing to insist they weren't wrong. It was irritating to read, but whatever got my money back.

      • ilovepizza on 06/05/2017 - 02:52

        isn't it illegal to send fake products intentionally? or against ausposts rules, one of them

        • eggboi on 06/05/2017 - 10:09

          Yeah it is, but they can easily claim they were duped by their supplier and didn't know. What is true and what you can prove are two different things. This is why ebay is such a minefield.

        • ilovepizza on 24/05/2017 - 20:45

          @bohdud: i was meaning more with returning it intentionally due to ebay's request

  • ssyl9 on 04/05/2017 - 18:34
    -5

    Apparently they sent PayPal a pic of the shipping label showing my address and this was enough to deny the claim. Even though the tracking clearly shows it wasn't delivered to my address

    This line means your dispute should be with Auspost instead of ebay or paypal.

    If you think he faked the label, you will need to prove that… or else ebay or paypal is not gonna be responsible for some postman stuff ups

    • blergmonkeys on 04/05/2017 - 18:38
      +7

      In non receipt of a parcel, buyer protection provides for a full refund.

      I don't see how this doesn't fall under that.

      • ssyl9 on 04/05/2017 - 18:52

        yes I agree they should be paying for the buyers protection

        but I guess paypal is trying to squeeze out of this one to put the fault at aus post (which is probably aus post's fault)

    • EnALup on 04/05/2017 - 21:21
      +2

      or else ebay or paypal is not gonna be responsible for some postman stuff ups

      Heard of buyer protection?

    • [Deactivated] on 05/05/2017 - 02:43
      +3

      Its up to the sender/seller to take it up with Auspost but if they are not fulfilling their duties it should fall back on ebay or paypal

      • worlds_most_wanted on 06/05/2017 - 15:09

        Its the receivers responsibility to open up an investigation case with Australia Post if the tracking status is 'delivered'.

        Australia Post will only deal with the sender if the parcel has not updated, and the tracking hasn't been 'delivered' in their allocated estimated time frame.

        The sellers responsibility is to provide proof of postage. Postcode + tracking number on a receipt is what they will require. If the postcode matches the recipients address, seller should be covered as long as the tracking status is 'delivered'.

  • PAZMAT on 04/05/2017 - 19:02
    +1

    Wow what a wanky response from Ebay and PayPal…
    Hopefully it all works out for you!

  • Keeegs on 04/05/2017 - 19:46
    +13

    Happened to me before.

    I purchased a ~$600 item using PayPal. Item did not show up at my door, I filed for chargeback with my bank. PayPal told me to cancel the chargeback with bank and open dispute with PayPal. I ignored PayPal's email and let my bank investigate.

    Bank refunded me in my favour.

    Banks will always protect you as the customer first.

    • katz on 05/05/2017 - 11:56
      +3

      I like your thinking. Stuff trying to convince Paypal. Let the bank just debit them, im sure they will chase the seller then! Pricks

  • [Deactivated] on 04/05/2017 - 20:24
    -4

    On October 3, 2002, PayPal became a wholly owned subsidiary of eBay.

    So, your dispute with eBay will have the same result in Paypal.

    …

    In a dispute with Paypal/eBay, If the sender produces ANY sort of "evidence", you are toasted.

    Other option? Ombudsman. I won like this.

  • Mike_Mav on 04/05/2017 - 21:00

    Not the first time this has happened !

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/286335

  • Lucky13 on 04/05/2017 - 21:17
    +2

    My parents had this happen just the other day too. Aust Post delivered their package to a completely different house in the neighbourhood and the only reason they received the package is because the guy that received it kindly brought it over. So the address was right thankfully, just delivered to the wrong house. Its never happened to them before, only now. Makes you wonder if Aust Post are cutting corners somehow and these are the repercussions eg. <profanity> gets lost :/

    • qwijibo on 04/05/2017 - 22:35
      +7

      Auspost are terrible. I've had packages survive all the way from china, only to get lost inside auspost - was particularly bad around xmas, when they were redirecting small parcels from my parcel locker to my PO box and lost two of them - and my PO box is in the same post office as the parcel lockers!

    • ntb on 06/05/2017 - 00:04
      +1

      I agree Auspost is terrible. I ordered a powerbank from Geekbuying around November last year, sent to my Parcel Locker. I got the code, input it in the locker machine and for some reason the door was stuck. So I contacted Auspost Customer Service and they pointed me to the post shop which the machine was located. I went to the post shop and they said nothing they could do which was bullsh*t, so basically I went back and forth between the customer service and the post shop for about 4 weeks before I gave up and bought another powerbank. I could not even raise the problem with Geekbuying as the item was delivered to my locker, just that I had no way to retrieve it.

      • realfancyman on 07/05/2017 - 01:11
        +1

        @ntb Haha, I would have gone in with the police, they are holding your property when they have no right to. Who cares if the door is stuck, that's their problem. Or if that fails, bring in a crowbar and fix things up yourself ;)

    • Lockieasy on 06/05/2017 - 20:14
      +1

      Happens sometimes at my parents house. There's two streets with similar names in the same suburb, so post will end up at the right number but on the wrong street and vice versa. Fortunately both homeowners simply repost the letters so nothing gets lost!

  • UncleMurphy on 04/05/2017 - 22:48
    +1

    The Financial Ombudsment should get things rolling

  • [Deactivated] on 05/05/2017 - 00:05

    Maybe check with the wrong address! They have the address!

  • [Deactivated] on 05/05/2017 - 00:10

    Hey i might have your package, and maybe you've got mine.
    Is your name Ralph and do you live near Penrith?

    • Faulty on 05/05/2017 - 01:27

      Yes, my name is Ralph and I live near Penrith! haha

      • misterpotatomato on 05/05/2017 - 06:28
        +5

        grabs popcorn

        • Faulty on 05/05/2017 - 10:08

          I should've added a /s… lol

        • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2017 - 21:34

          @Faulty: Is your parcel headphones?

        • Faulty on 07/05/2017 - 21:49

          @Fincky: yes I ordered 18 of them.

  • toasty on 05/05/2017 - 07:53
    +18

    Had a similar experience. Auspost said it was delivered, seller wouldn't chase up, eBay denied my claim so I did a chargeback. PayPal blocked my account after the chargeback - my first chargeback - and I had over $2k in my PayPal account so this was a real pain in the ass. I lodged a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service who found in my favour and forced PayPal to unblock my account.

    Always pay with your Visa/MasterCard when using PayPal - never from your linked bank account or funds in your PayPal account. This way you will always be able to do a chargeback if PayPal doesn't support you. Don't keep funds in your PayPal account unless you are comfortable with the possibility that they'll be blocked while you fight to restore access through a FOS complaint.

    PayPal/eBay guarantees are marketing BS and not to be relied upon as at the end of the day they will protect their own profit margins. If you actually read the terms and conditions you'll see that they've left themselves plenty of ways out.

    We should all thank our lucky stars we're in Australia where we all have access to good protections like the FOS, the TIO, the ACC and all the rest because in many other countries when you get screwed by a company there is very little you can do about it.

    • petry on 05/05/2017 - 14:56
      -7

      The ACCC are a political tool - they do around an average of 6 cases across Australia for consumers per year.

      The TIO are part of the telecomms system and do nothing.

      The FOS are part of the finance system and do very little.

      None of them are honest, with the TIO being by far the worst.

      All of them used to behave much better than they do now- and none offer good protection.

      The TIO is currently completely unfit for its purpose, and now acts to protect telecomm companies from being found guilty of breaching the telecommunications Act.

      • biltong2go on 05/05/2017 - 19:12
        +1

        Agreed!
        I have about 3 cases with Postal Industry Ombudsman (part of the Commonwealth Ombudsman) about widespread SYSTEMIC problems with Australia Post, they have been totally useless.
        It's been almost a year since I lodged the last complaint, which they didn't even bother to read properly, then I requested escalation but never heard back

        Whenever I approach the ACCC about these widespread systemic problems, they just refer me to the Postal Industry Ombudsman.

        Furthermore, the Commonwealth Ombudsman is different to other ombudsmans around the world, in that they don't actually have ANY power. They can only make suggestions. In Canada, South Africa and other countries, the Ombudsman has binding powers that cannot be ignored. In Australia, there is no recourse other than to hire a lawyer out of your own pocket.

        The only positive is that the Commonwealth Ombudsman do charge Australia Post a nominal fee for every case they investigate, meaning it does slightly affect Australia Post's bottom line, acting as disincentive for Australia Post to have issues refered to the Ombudsman.

    • endgame on 05/05/2017 - 20:50
      +3

      Yep, paypal being shit is a matter of "when", not a matter of "if".

  • TheOneWhoKnocks on 05/05/2017 - 08:45
    +3

    Updates?

    • Blitzfx on 05/05/2017 - 10:15

      Takes a day or two for bank to send the letter to OP to fill in, then a day or two to send back at least lol.
      Then bank needs a bit to review it, then money appears in OP's account.
      Depending on the bank, the other party (paypal) have around a month time limit to contest it.

  • mavis30551 on 05/05/2017 - 10:12
    +4

    Im just commenting to find out what happens now OP put in a credit card claim back.

  • blergmonkeys on 05/05/2017 - 13:49
    +7

    Updates will be forthcoming but cc company (westpac amex) said they need me to receive and fill in a physical letter they sent me today first and then will try to retrieve my money. Seems this may take a while.

    I will start a case with the FOS if this doesn't work.

    Seriously though, this has been a very frustrating experience and, to make it worse, I just got a marketing email from paypal bragging about how they have the buyer's back. What a crock of shit.

    • Online Bathroomware on 05/05/2017 - 14:20

      Contact Australia Post requesting that they confirm the delivery address matched that of the shipping label provided. If it doesn't match you will be able to provide this to PayPal and they should rule in your favour as they did our situation.

      • blergmonkeys on 05/05/2017 - 14:21
        +3

        I asked them to do this and AP refused to confirm or deny, stating confidentiality reasons blah blah blah… :(

        • Online Bathroomware on 05/05/2017 - 14:24

          They won't provide a copy of the label itself, but they should be able to help confirm the address on the label matches that on their system.

        • blergmonkeys on 05/05/2017 - 14:37
          +2

          @Online Bathroomware: Yeah, I asked for simple confirmation and they said they couldn't do this.

    • lainey13 on 06/05/2017 - 16:26

      Wow Westpac is being a pain then. I've only just had to call up and lodge a chargeback through that.

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