The government will be announcing new changes to citizenship eligibility.
I'm all in for the new test and community integration. At least we are all part of OzB as a community :D
The toughest part that may affect some of us will be the 4 years probation period up from 1 year. Also, limited access to social security benefits during the 4 years wait.
What do OzBargain think ? How will the new changes affect you ?
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.afr.com/news/politics/ci…
Under what circumstances can you beat your wife?
the answer is when she is asking for it silly.
/sarcasm
What score do you need to pass the test?
What do you mean by "Also, limited access to social security benefits during the 4 years wait." ? The article you linked has a paywall. Thanks.
Wrong is wrong whether its done by a Muslim or non muslim. I think the govt. Should stop giving offshore PRs. the next big dream of every obe from overseas is to study in cheap university in their country, work and apply an Australian residency, move to Australia with all family members, make a trip to centre link for Medicare etc.
I was a fulltime overseas student here and I spent thousands of dollars on education, food, accommodation and travelling but when i applied for work i couldn't find any. Its such a shame that those who deserve more don't get benefits but these people get all the perks.
STOP 457 AND BAN GIVING OFFSHORE PRs!
Its Not A freaking Hostle its a Country!
If you look at the history of Migration Act and Citizenship Act, all the changes done have been very political.
The largest beneficiary of 457 has been very large corporation where they can push salary lower by importing employees that willing to take lower wages. While 'market rate' has been pretty much market determined but there's no real benchmark of "Job X with Y numbers of years needs to be paid $K". Hence making the salary for an employee being very arguable.
Local candidates always looking for $ that suit their lifestyle; those on 457 is looking for moving into Aus and get PR and definitely willing to take a lower wage. They are guaranteed a job, a country they wanted to get out of, a country they wanted to move into, and also take their family along. why not? lower wages is only a small price to pay to have a better life.
Students visa is granted with assumptions of "genuine student", you come to study, learn, pay your food and accommodation - then you go home. (don't get me wrong, I was international student myself). Also 457 is not a PR, it's a TR.
Finding work is different story, regardless of you being local or PR; you are not guaranteed a job after graduation. You just have to compete with everyone else, submit CV and go for interview. It's the survival of the best and luck. You can't find one, keep looking. There are jobs out there and certainly not all of them are on Seek, you just need to know where to look.
Not thousands of dollars on education, etc, but tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands these days.
These newly fresh migrants are parasites, they came here just to enjoy the centrelink, medicare privilidges as soon as they landed.
These newly fresh migrants are parasites, they came here just to enjoy the centrelink, medicare privileges as soon as they landed.
Been watching a bit of Today Tonight have you?
Regardless, PR's can still access that anyway. the only difference becoming a citizen is that they can vote, access FEE-Help and work in defence. Is giving "these parasites" access to that so bad? Especially seeing as the existing rules require them to have lived in australia the previous four years? Especially considering most of them actually work and pay Australian taxes?
These 'newly fresh migrants' have to wait a minimum period of 1 year before they get any benefits. So your point is moot.
Very good i like!
Got mine a few years back. Had to wait 4 years as a PR before becoming eligible, so I don't understand what is going to change.
Recently had a critical look into the pledge I took. Here it is:
From this time forward (under God)
I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people,
whose democratic beliefs I share,
whose rights and liberties I respect, and
whose laws I will uphold and obey.
What exactly are "democratic beliefs", if, judging by this text, they are separate from rights, liberties and laws?
A belief is something that cannot be proven, something opposite to fact, reason, logic. Are then "democratic beliefs" just a form of religion?
Most people take the pledge variant that includes the words "under God", so for them it must be a blasphemy to pledge allegiance to a different god.
Before you had to have lived in Australia for 4 years on a valid visa. In addition you had to have lived in Australia for 1 year with PR. So if you already lived in Australia for 3 years on a student visa or something, you only need to wait 1 year on pr.
Now it's 4 years on PR
OK, that does not seem unfair, why time on a random visa should count towards your citizenship eligibility?
Compare with pre-2007 policy, when it was only 2 years and no test.
Well, you still integrate and adapt Aussie values during your time on a random visa. I strongly don't believe that one's bahaviours and thoughts on Australian values (eg. domestic violence and religion freedom) will change dramatically once you are granted PR. Some people are here on a valid visa for over 10 years before they're granted PR. I'm sure their time in Australia will influence their values in many different ways.
There should also be a requirement for all income tax returns to have been lodged, and that income taxes paid should exceed the average taxes paid by all Australians.
So no housewife/house husband
No mail order gold diggers.
Its not a good idea to check some one is "Australian" by conducting test with some question (not a comparison but if someone does the test to select partner). The best thing government would have done was to conduct some kind of seminar/training kind of thing for all the new citizen to understand some basic idea how its living in Australia and what they should be giving/accepting etc..Government is only trying to keep its position, another useless policy with no substance and no value addition for the future.
Stricter English Testing = More Indians (Good thing as the ones that come over seem very nice from my experience). A friend was whinging to me that their oral IELTS examiner had a strong Indian accent which was interesting but I told him its an English test and not an Aussie accent test.
I like idea of a longer time to wait for Citizenship maybe 10 years after arriving just like P Plates for car and if you commit any serious offences (jail time) then instant deportation after time has been served (this should be clearly told to them on arrival). Would deter a lot from criminal behaviour.
I think under present rules you can be deported after serving jail as a non-citizen.
Interesting indeed, they usually pick someone with a neutral sounding accent but if she's just the examiner, she was obviously there as her command of English meets the standards of the IELTS team. Aussie accent test, I would love to see the Indians ATTEMPT it, haha! I think there's a youtube channel of it somewhere… Any serious crimes would result in deportation, correct, not things like speeding tickets or parking fines.
WRT longer wait time for Citizenship, if someone has been here for 10 years, irrespective of the type of visa he/she is on, 10 years is 10 years. Adding 4 years to it makes no difference to the government in any way.
Not many people get jail time for speeding tickets and parking fines
10 years keeps them on their toes for longer and if they do commit serious crime (maybe over 3 years jail time or more) then I think we are better without them (Mandatory deportation would be good with Ministers discretion to override in special cases)
Agreed, any crime requiring jail time is not excusable & we will all be better off without such people anyways. But saying that, a majority of immigrants are subject to criminal checks & vetting & anyone with a prior record of over 12 months in prison, will not be allowed into the country, even if the visa is granted.
@lordra:
Some people turn bad after arriving here so longer period before citizenship is good and many criminal checks especially in developing world can be forged or changed after payment. Some countries don't have an accurate record
Without discussing the merits of these questions (personally I think they are drafted poorly), what I like to point out is that any testing should be applied to the Skill Migration/PR application process. After all majority of a new Aus citizenship is from skilled migrants. No point doing these tests once the person is already in the country.
I find that a joke that some skilled migrants need to pass English test for PR and then same test for citizenship. It's just waste of money as IELTS is not cheap.
maybe government gets a commission for every IELTS exam.
Many people said that also.
Yeah correct, I am PR with both Bachelors and Masters degree from Aus universities, I got band 9 scores for all 4 IELTS modules, I see no reason why I should be retested when I apply for Citizenship.
You received 9/9 for ALL of them. Wow, you must be a prophet of the English Language! I've never heard of anyone get 9/9 for all 4 modules. Impossible, is what I heard.
@lordra:sorry just checked got 8.5, note this is not academic test, its general test, which is easier than the ielts academic version.
@kangaroo: 8.5 is a feat as well, I got the same, even though the Brit couple with me were doing it for the 3rd time as he couldn't get over 6! They always marked me down in writing, even getting 9 in Speech & 8.5 in the others.
(profanity) hell. I was eligible for the last year but too lazy to put in my citizenship application. Was gonna do it this week and now I'm not eligible. (profanity). Got PR in July 2015. Sigh. Guess I gotta wait now.
I'm in exactly the same situation. In fact I just finished my application on Saturday (1 day too late) 😑
Same boat here, only to blame ourself :(
How will the changes affect me? Not at all.
Yeah if it doesn't affect me then who gives a fu*k, right?
It's this type of mentality that has screwed this country up. What happened to the Australian values of mateship, empathy and a fair go.
That was a question in the citizenship test.
Sorry for your butthurt. Simply answered the question in the OP.
You only answered one of the questions….
lol, you got chip on your shoulder or something ? :P
If giving a sh*t about other people means I have a chip on my shoulder, then yeah, I do.
I didnt know this is right place to asking this but please help me if you know something.
Last 2 year at July 2015 i passed my Citizenship test, i got Permanent Resident with Spouse Visa but me and my wife have been separate and we are divorced at 02/2015.
2 week after that they send me letter to ask me Provide Some Evident to prove my relationship i real, as we are separate nearly 2 year ago and i didnt keep much paper work ( Bill, or anything relate to the address we have been living before together).
Anyway they still not agree enough Information and i just ignore that, because that time I move to Newcastle and open my Buss there, get married again with my workmate there, we just have a baby boy last moth.
My question is do i need to do the Citizenship test again, or what can i do now to get Citizenship.
Would you guys please help me.
Thanks
Thom
Anyway they still not agree enough Information and i just ignore that…
Just to kick this off, never, ever, ignore a request for information.
That will only backfire on you, regardless of how busy you might be.
This is especially the case with visa's - some brutal time limits are in place depending on the circumstances.
You only got into the country due to the connection with your (former) spouse - the department asking questions about that is entirely legitimate.
Other than that, i'm not clear on your timeline, and the reason is you haven't been clear.
Do you have an active application for citizenship in the works?
You say you've passed a "citizenship test", but that doesn't necessarily imply an active application.
If you have not submitted an application for citizenship, then the new rules apply to you.
You might need some English training - i'd get onto that sooner rather than later.
Yep, what Angry Chicken said. I wouldn't ignore their request … Your Case sound complicated, seems like you might have to reapply and put your new spouse as a new sponsor ( at least I think that is how the department would think)
Any how I was, nearly, get into trouble with the "ignore their request". I wasn't purposely ignore them, but because life was getting hectic in that period in which they were asking to provide "extra" evidences. Then I have to go to tribunal … it was a handful experience which I don't really want to have again. So please don't do that for the shake of your FAMILY !!! Get on top of these things.
Visa through scam marriage?
I was only 1 year?
What do you mean? It was 1 year as a permanent resident, but at least 4 years resident on another visa type. It also had requirements to remain in Australia for a certain time, i. e. not to leave for longer periods. Mine was reset as I went travelling for a year…
Not too long ago the requirement was 2 years as a permanent resident. They tend to change this every few years…
I think he meant he was fetus for 1 year. Then I made a presumptuous judgement that she is a he, also about the one year and the fetus.
I was born here to kiwi parents, moved to NZ at age 6 and moved back here to work/live 6 years ago. End of 2015 decided to regain my PR visa and work toward citizenship so I can go back to uni to do some study (need access to HECS). I basically finished my citizenship application on the 20th, I just need to attach a few documents. Now I'm probably going to have to wait another 2.5 years before I can gain citizenship. Bit of a kick in the balls I think.
Can you not just upload the remaining documents? The time of application should be relevant?
The application has recorded when I began it (8th), but I wasn't able to finish the questions and submit till Friday (21st) and I still need to attach a few docs
This thread is about citizenship by conferral.
But there are other paths.
Did at least one of your parents have PR?
If so, s 12(1)(a) might apply.
There's also the 'ordinarily resident' for 10 years after birth, but you seem to have missed that (same link above).
But you've almost certainly considered those options, in which case it's the conferral path for you … just make sure you stay clean given the character test in s 21(2)(h).
No my parents never applied for PR back then, pre 1993 NZ citizens were classified as 'exempt non citizens', also between 86-93 we weren't granted citizenship by birth (I was born 88).
I'm clean so it's no worries on the character front, it's just very disappointing considering I though I would have my citizenship in the next few months
Actually yeah, i gotta be careful - i'm referring to current law when of course the rules were likely different back then with all the changes.
Good luck…
You might want to start studying the new test.
Oh, and here's a shot of a prize NZ Romney Marsh ram from 1897.
Thats one good lookin ram
@AngryChicken: Question since there are so many rules like that, what happens if the person whoever handle a, let's rather complex case, miss a section like that ? And the applicant has no idea about either ? Im just curious …
Well, some of the provisions operate automatically, by which i mean if the section applies to you then you are an Oz citizen, though you may need to seek recognition by the Oz government of that status (in order to get a passport say, or prove your entitlement rights, etc).
This applies to s 22(1)(a) (citizenship by birth), and 22(1)(b) (citizenship by 10-year 'ordinary residence' post-birth). But that's for kiddies born under the current legislation - as lyle88 has reminded me, for any current adult you need to go back and see what laws applied at the time of birth. Note that the question as to what constitutes 'ordinarily resident' got a little court action last year.
The Act itself is reasonably comprehensible, and each subdivision has a 'Simplfied Outline' which is quite useful, so folk may wish to read it themselves, but then always ensure you get legal advice instead of relying on some anonymous whacko on OzBargain.
But to answer your question, no one is going to knock on your door and volunteer what your rights are. If you don't know what they are, or seek to exercise them, then you miss out.
That's one good lookin ram alright.
I managed to obtain a (complete) copy of the proposed new test. Can be downloaded here : https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxj5lZi6QDTLNDFXQlZFZVlWY2…
You almost got me there LMAO
LMAO!!
I literally laughed out loud reading it
I'm not sure if anyone has asked this already, does anyone know the details of what the English test is? Is there a set IELT level that applicants need to meet?
My significant other is in the unfortunate situation where she has had their PR for just under 13 months :(
This, together with the 457 changes, is gonna trigger soooo many de facto scams.
Im not sure if it has been covered before， but I think it is worth anyone who has just become eligible to apply. On the paper from the government it says the new rules will apply from the 20th of this month. But they hope they can be introduced before the end of 2017.
I wonder if they are going to put all the applications that are not eligible under the new rules on hold until they (if) become law. According to the information and forms on the immigration website， people should still be eligible.
They may just keep processing according to the current laws until the law actually changes.
we are seriously thinking of applying as we eligible under the old rule but not eligible under the new rule.
should we?!?
why not just trying?
If anyone is interested, I applied. Did it online. Began my application before the 20th, which was recorded on the application, but didn't finish and submit until after the 20th. I'll post the results when I find out, fingers crossed!
I actually very much support the changes to both the 457 and Citizenship rules. What erks me is that these laws don't apply to migrants of all countries and that Kiwis get preferential treatment. Don't you think all visa/citizenship rules should be uniform and provide a fair playing field and should be based on merit.
Yes and no. Australia and New Zealand have historically had very close relations. I believe that pre-1981 you didn't even need a passport to travel between the two countries. I can see how preferential treatment for New Zealanders might seem unfair to those from other countries, but given we don't need a visa (per-se) to travel to Australia and can stay for as long as we like, there's already a level of special treatment. I think increasing the citizenship requirements for New Zealanders moving to Australia is stupid. The governments reasoning is to 'integrate' new migrants, but I think a lot of people will agree that Australian and New Zealand citizens already share a lot of the values that have been discussed recently by the PM. I believe Australians get a similar level of treatment when moving to NZ
this sucks.
we had thought it was 4 years of PR before you can apply for citizenship, but just found out its 4y residence with only needing 1yr on PR.
this means my wife could've applied for citizenship before April 20th…
the new rules would mean we can only apply in another 2-3yrs..
so what should we do now? should we still apply in the hope that we may still be approved under the old rules?
or what would happen to our application if we applied now and they apply the new rules on us (which we would then not meet due to 4yr PR requirement)?
Apply. In the application process, it will ask if you meet the requirements and will let you proceed if you do & will block you if you don't. So go for it. The FAQ on the immi site says that you can. So do it!
If you proceed with the process now, you might risk a very big let down when the changes come into place. I've taken the risk.
I am a migrant and I do support the new changes to citizenship law.
Australia does not have a official religion. The English language is the only thing that holds this country together.
A person cannot assimilate into Australian society without functional English knowledge. Therefore the English language skills must be tested before offering the citizenship.
The requirement to live 4 years in PR visa is questionable though. It is unfair for the students who spent years in Australia under their student visas and for the people who migrated under other temporary visas.
May be it is better to split into two categories.
1. 4 years PR
or
2. 6 years stay with 2 years PR
The problem is asking to retake the IELTS again. Some visa requirements includes taking the IELTS before coming here and granting the PR.
Now the government wants those who took the IELTS before to retake it again. It's ridiculous. It's looking more like a money making scheme.
agree on this. People who passed IELTS with a certain score before should not be forced to do it again.
The problem is that the english test almost tests nothing. It only tests how skilful you are on taking the English tests, it doesn't say much about your english ability.
Also, a lot of people already took the english as part of another visa, they now have to take it again. Does it mean their english skill degrade over the years while living in english speaking country? I can understand the english test required for certain type of permanent visas.
Ok but is it really unfair to students? You are paying (a considerable amount) for an education, not for guaranteed citizenship.
They are two separate things and there has always been a minimum period of time required as PR before you can apply for citizenship. It used to be two years, but I am hearing that recently it was only one year. Now they're changing it to four.
It used to be 2 years not matter how long you have been Australia before.
It changed to 4 years but at least 1 year PR around 2009. It has transitional arrangements at the time that PR granted before certain date followed the old rules.
And the new change is 4 years PR, no matter how long you have been Australia before. So the new change would affect the one who just became PR or already eligible but delayed the application (He may already be here for 10 years), he just need to wait one more 1 year to become citizen originally. He is now needed to wait 4 more years. And there are NO TRANSITIONAL ARRANGEMENT this time and apply to all application submitted on or after 20 Apr. So there are someone may already eligible to become citizen but submitting application even delayed 1 day (like someone eligible on 19 Apr, submitted application on 20 Apr), he will be refused and he need to wait 4 more years.
The change looks like just trying to keep the party in government for a bit longer time. Since PR still access to centrelink, medicare etc. The different are passport & vote right. So they are delaying this group of people vote them out in the coming 4 years. It won't bring much significant benefits to Australia. This group of people affected will become citizens not more than 4 years later and they will lost their votes forever.
But yes, I do also support 457 changes.
Really PR get nearly everything a citizen does bar rights to vote and a passport; anyone who really wants citizenship will not be bothered waiting a few extra years.
@CLoSeR:
No. Because we just want to vote this government out.
But anyway, we would still do that later also even the law get passed.
I don't think English and Citizenship test is a problem to most people. But I just don't think that it will help anything. As many other said, most PR have sit English test as a requirement of their application. I don't think they cannot pass again but it is just wasting of time and money. And I think if someone able to pass the English before will not fail the citizenship test. The test I think is useless as it just like a exam paper. You remember the answer and you will pass, even he is not agree with the answer.
The Citizenship changes should have been made transitionally. Pretty dog move IMO, some people spend in exess of 10k to get PR. Then the goal posts get moved with no way of satisfying the terms which were set out before you dropped the cash on PR
wow, people only have to pay around 10k for PR, they should really only give PR to people if they spend 100k at least. No wonder our system is failing, lots of immigrants leeching off citizens
Well, I don't know anything about other types of visas, but some people accidentally fall in love with the wrong people.
When my wife (and I) applied for a number 300 visa and then for the 820/801 which is PR, the cost was a total of about $4,000. In 2010, people taking the same route to Australia had to pay just $2,500. Now it is over 8K.
We told our life and love story 3 times to the immigration.
I promise you, for some people, like us, this is a lot of money.
Luckily it doesn't take long for a PR to get the visa payments back as Centrelink payments. Good!
wow so many down votes.. so you expect australian citizens to absorb low skilled aliens? sure we love rich high skilled immigrants to help the economy but if you arent a refugee/humanitarian stream entree, why would any country want to absorb your costs?
The rules are the rules. Sometimes they change.
Which system is failing? Lots of immigrants leeching? Do you know what that means?
As I wrote, I only know about partner visas. No other visas. That system is not failing. It is not perfect, as I am sure people can take advantage of it.
But, it took over 4 years and so much work to finally be able to live in MY country with MY wife and MY kids, without fear of someone in the government saying "you 2 can't live here together".
My wife has been to TAFE to study the FREE English course for migrants, where they get FREE childcare and lets pretend half of the people there look after their Australian kids at home on their days off.
With these new changes, these people will possibly be "leeching" off the system for another 3 years now, as they stay home and look after their Australian kids while their partners work/study/whatever, before they can become Australian and leech off the system as citizens.
ozbargain will be empty once the new rules come into effect
Jesus, we're really hopping into the New Zealanders.
NZ students will no longer receive Commonwealth fee subsides available to local students.
Sorry guys.
Can you please give us A link for this test?