[NSW] No Gap Fee ($0) on Check-Ups, Teeth Cleaning, X-Rays and Fillings @ No Gaps Dental Sydney

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nogapsdental.com

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• [Deactivated] on 04/04/2017 - 16:24 Comment score below threshold.
  • 

    hashtagbargain on 04/04/2017 - 16:26

    +20

    Some people are more susceptible to dental problems than others. Lifestyle is only a factor.

    • 

      Scrooge McDuck on 05/04/2017 - 10:39

      -3

      Sounds like fatlogic…

• 

  hhbb555 on 04/04/2017 - 16:26

  i wonder what the catch would be..

  • 

    hashtagbargain on 04/04/2017 - 16:27

    +4

    They sell your kidney.

    • 

      hhbb555 on 04/04/2017 - 16:30

      +3

      one or both?

      • 

        scrimshaw on 04/04/2017 - 18:16

        +5

        Yes

    • 

      rollypollym on 05/04/2017 - 07:19

      +2

      Services you don't need. I was told I needed fillings by one of these 'no gap' places only to be told by my regular dentist that my teeth are currently fine.

      • 

        Scrooge McDuck on 05/04/2017 - 10:46

        +1

        I was told I had impeccable hygiene and didn't need anything done at No Gaps Chatswood.

      • 

        rollypollym on 05/04/2017 - 12:31

        +1

        @Scrooge McDuck: Good for you! It probably depends on the dentist in question.

        • 

          michaelTito on 26/09/2023 - 17:11

          @rollypollym: Or maybe he got good dental hygiene

  • 

    dealspider on 04/04/2017 - 16:32

    +7

    Take unwanted x-rays to maximise the claim.

    • 

      tassieeagle on 04/04/2017 - 16:35

      +1

      Just say no xrays? Last place I went to tried to upsell me the xrays. I just said no thanks mate, I'm only here for a scale and clean

      • 

        dealspider on 04/04/2017 - 16:39

        I did ask them not to take X-rays but the dentist insist that I should take them to "make sure there are no complications"

    • 

      zenx on 04/04/2017 - 16:38

      +1

      I was thinking the same, however they didn't offer me an xray until the end of the appointment when I started asking questions about a suspicious wisdom teeth of mine. I am sure that if I hadn't asked for it, they wouldn't push me to do an xray as by then all the fillings were done.

      • 

        dealspider on 04/04/2017 - 16:44

        +1

        Somehow they almost blew my annual limit on general dental last year. Luckily it was towards the end of the year.

      • 

        zenx on 04/04/2017 - 16:46

        @dealspider: yeah, some of the funds have low annual limits, have to watch out for that.

    • 

      Scrooge McDuck on 05/04/2017 - 10:52

      +1

      Take unwanted x-rays to maximise the claim.

      Is that how you acquired your super powers?

      • 

        dealspider on 05/04/2017 - 10:59

        hahaha… yeah but only lasted until the anesthetic ran out :D

  • 

    zenx on 04/04/2017 - 16:36

    +1

    Not sure if there's a catch. They probably benefit by having more customers because of the no gaps policy so the dentists spend less time sitting around doing nothing. Also, I will def go back for my scale and clean and general check ups there which means that they get more money from me, or my dental cover to be precise.

  • 

    tightasian on 04/04/2017 - 17:55

    Been there once .what they did is inflated the price of all their procedures. In the end , gave u an impression that they did a lot for u for less.

    Compare with other places, say health funds appointed places, standard procedures.

    • 

      zenx on 04/04/2017 - 18:02

      Yes, their list prices are higher than average as I can be seen in the original post (No Gaps bill $800, average bill would have been $600). I think it's done because some dental insurances cover up to a certain % of the bill. However, with their no gap policy, the price list doesn't really matter - the dental insurance pays whatever it covers and the remaining gap fee is waived.

      • 

        tightasian on 04/04/2017 - 19:09

        +4

        They made sure with 2 appointments, your annual cap would leave in their pocket. In that sense, you won't be able to shop anywhere else

  • 

    Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 08:44

    +2

    I believe in letting people make their own choice however I want to make a few points.

    White filling materials commonly used these days are extremely technique sensitive. Any moisture contamination (i.e. saliva or humidity) will completely kill the longevity of the filling.

    It is not uncommon for decay to reappear around fillings which have not bonded properly. Remember fogging up a mirror or glass with your breath so that you could draw on it when you were a child? That's humidity at work. It's not visible but studies have shown that even something minor like that will affect fillings.

    How do some dentists prevent this? Using something called rubber dam or a special suction that blocks off the back of the throat and tongue.

    Why don't all dentists do this?

    • Costs more
    • Annoying to do
    • Some don't believe or realise it's a problem

    IMHO, I cannot bring myself to do a filling unless I have made sure the conditions are 100% right. Some people can't handle the techniques due to nose blockages, hypersensitive gag-reflex etc and we discuss that it's going to be a compromised results but these people are the exception and not the rule.

    Why is it then that moisture control is not mandatory?

    • It does not produce catastrophic failure
    • A filling without proper technique will still stay in (with shorter longevity)
    • You go back in a couple of years time and the filling is replaced at no gap price. You are happy.

    Why IMHO can't I bring myself to do fillings without proper moisture control?

    • A contaminated filling will last a fraction of the time an uncontaminated one if all else are equal.
    • High risk of recurrent decay (decay occurring around the filling) which is hard to notice until it becomes a larger problem. Some clues that this is happening is black staining where the filling and the tooth are supposed to be bonded.
    • I am one of those fake OCD people (sorry to people who suffer from OCD) but I just can't do it unless I know I've done my best.
    • Rubber dam is mandatory for a procedure such as root canal. Why? Because we don't want the root canal to be contaminated. Why not do the same for fillings?
    • Every time a filling is replaced, slightly more tooth is drilled away. It is a downward spiral once this cycle starts therefore I want to prolong the inevitable as much as possible by making fillings last as long as possible.

    For independent small dental practices, there is no way we can survive doing no-gap and still use the above technique. It would barely cover support staff and materials.

    Being an Ozbargainer myself, I love bargains. However I don't use the mindset when it comes to my health. I also believe in freedom and that everyone should make their own choice however it should be an informed choice.

    Whether you go to no-gaps, a health fund-owned, or an independent practice; ask the dentist to use rubber dam for your white fillings.

    What will I do if market forces drive prices down and I can no longer provide the level of service? I would rather do something else than race to the bottom with technique and price.

    I regularly discuss with other like-minded dentists on even the most minute of steps for filling techniques. We all get pretty passionate about the tiniest of details in our techniques and continually improve. Controlling moisture is only one fundamental factor in determining how well a filling will turn out. You have no idea the crazy fb threads that go on just talking about how to do a filling well.

    If these huge practices can maintain those prices and deliver the same quality then it can only be good for patients, and it would be time for a career change.

    TL;DR

    • Everyone should make an informed choice regarding their health.
    • Where is the lower price coming from? Ask yourself. Sure there is some economies of scale happening but are dentists there taking a pay cut or are they saving money elsewhere?
    • Ask the dentist to use at least use rubber dam for fillings.
    • No way an independent practice can provide our quality of work at those prices.
    • Perhaps my sort of business will go the way of Pizza Hut
    • 

      zenx on 05/04/2017 - 10:17

      This is a very comprehensive post and raises some interesting questions. I do believe that both patients and dentists should be making informed choices, thanks for sharing. I did some quick googling after reading this and it appears that dental dams are not commonly used by the majority of dentists as many think that they are simply not needed (source).

      But should rubber dams be used? Well, I could not find much research, but this scientific review analysing studies from 1996 till 2002 concluded this:

      Effects of the isolation method of the operative field (rubber dam or cotton rolls) and the professional status of operators (university or general dentist) on composite failure rates were not found to be significant.

      Similar conclusions also from another analysis covering years 1996-2015:

      No influence of operator status, isolation method or bonding systems on the overall failure rate was found.

      This suggests that dental dams do not have added benefit for the longevity of the filling. I would be interested in reading any other research you might have come across. Of course, it might be that some dentists achieve better quality of work when using dental dams but that depends on the individual dentist and it looks like that not using dental dams is not a cost cutting measure that compromises the quality of simple fillings. But as you said, it doesn't hurt so I guess it might be worth asking dentist to do it anyway just for a peace of mind.

      • 

        Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 10:35

        +2

        Wow you really care about this deal to do that much research. Just to few comments about that article you linked to:

        • It counted all types of fillings - from what I could see it did not specifically test white (composite resin) fillings.
        • Only 12% of the dentists in the study used rubber dam.

        And I am sorry but you cherry picking that once sentence from the introduction is just disingenuous. A technique I used to use a fresher at uni for assignments.

        The conclusion of the study you linked to has nothing to do with rubber dam and filling longevity. The study was to see how common rubber dam is used and what factors cause them to be used.

        The objectives of the present investigation were to: (1) quantify how commonly the rubber dam is used during operative dentistry procedures; and (2) test the hypothesis that certain dentist-, restoration-, and patient-level factors are associated with its use.

        These results, obtained in routine clinical practice from actual clinical procedures rather than questionnaires, document a low prevalence of usage of rubber dam during operative dentistry procedures. Nonetheless, use of the rubber dam significantly varied with certain dentist-, restoration-, and patient-level characteristics.

      • 

        zenx on 05/04/2017 - 10:42

        @Hogg:

        You've just read the first study I mentioned, which as you correctly pointed out did not test filling longevity. If you look at the next two studies I quoted (1 and 2), you would see that they analyse longevity of white composite fillings, so exactly what we're discussing here:

        This review is a survey of prospective studies on the clinical performance of posterior resin composites published between 1996 and 2002.

        88 prospective, clinical trials (1996–2015) were analyzed in terms of survival of posterior composite restorations.

        I just picked the conclusion sentences relevant to the discussion, and provided links so anyone can check the methodology and findings of the studies. Would be very interesting to see other research backing up your statements.

      • 

        Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 10:49

        @zenx:

        I apologise, I did not see the link to the second study. I just get easily riled up when people misuse studies to make their point. I really do apologise for my impulsiveness.

        Regarding the second link, basically their conclusion is:

        • We need more studies of fillings > 5 years because that's when failures occur.
        • They found that fillings failed less when patients returned for more check-ups which they believe was basically selection bias where patient's with fastidious oral hygiene and care for their teeth will tend to have less failures.
        • Once again no conclusion about rubber dam at all.
      • 

        zenx on 05/04/2017 - 11:01

        +2

        @Hogg: I have access to the demajornal article full pdf, can send this to you if you want to read it. They actually included 30 studies (more would be better obviously) with more than 5 years observation and actually state that no significant differences in isolation method (rubber dam etc) were observed.

        And fillings failing less with patients who have better dental care habits makes sense.. yet, I'd be guessing that the rest of the patients would still come back when the filling fails (as it would require dental attention) and thus would show up in dental filling failure rates?

      • 

        Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 11:19

        @zenx:

        Some evidence to back up my arguments:

        Cochrane Systematic Review

        Small Study

        Anecdotal evidence from a dentist

        A few notes:

        • Cochrane is held by the medical field in the highest regard for consensus.
        • The Cochrane article is a Systematic Review which is the highest level of evidence on the hierarchy of evidence.
        • They found that the studies they reviewed did show evidence that rubber dam increased filling longevity for the type of fillings that are sensitive to moisture

        The results indicated that dental restorations had a significantly higher survival rate in the rubber dam isolation group compared to the cotton roll isolation group at six months in participants receiving composite restorative treatment of non-carious cervical lesions (risk ratio (RR) 1.19, 95% confidence interval (CI) 1.04 to 1.37, very low-quality evidence). It also showed that the rubber dam group had a lower risk of failure at two years in children undergoing proximal atraumatic restorative treatment in primary molars (hazard ratio (HR) 0.80, 95% CI 0.66 to 0.97, very low-quality evidence).

        In the interest of full disclosure:

        Authors' conclusions
        We found some very low-quality evidence, from single studies, suggesting that rubber dam usage in dental direct restorative treatments may lead to a lower failure rate of the restorations, compared with the failure rate for cotton roll usage. Further high quality research evaluating the effects of rubber dam usage on different types of restorative treatments is required.

        You may be concerned about the above conclusion however Cochrane is held to the highest standard therefore unless they have almost definitive proof, their conclusion is always "we need more research".

        Rubber dam is only 1 factor in determining how good a filling is. It is so hard to perform a good study because:

        • Not all cavities are the same
        • Not all dentists are the same
        • Even the same dentists will show variability in their fillings.

        At uni, we are forced to use rubber dam for fillings be cause it is the gold standard. Sometimes we were lazy and didn't want to do it and made excuses but you needed good excuses for them to allow you not to use rubber dam. Then after graduation, we are free to do what ever we want.

        Attitudes of Final Year Students

        I think that is enough for most people to make a conclusion if they wish. I doubt anyone would care enough to click and read all the links hence why I was not happy with your cherry picking to start off with and needed to put it right.

        All I know is if I need a filling, I would demand rubber dam.

        Zenx, you seem to be very knowledgeable about this topic enough to search journal articles. Are you in the dental industry or associated with NoGaps?

      • 

        zenx on 05/04/2017 - 12:36

        +1

        @Hogg:

        Most telling is the conclusion of the Cochrane review you quoted, the authors declare themselves that you can't draw conclusions from their study:

        Although there was no robust evidence to favour rubber dam usage in improving the survival rate of restorations, this does not mean that rubber dam usage is not important during restorative treatments, since the clinical decision is not solely based upon its ability to reduce failure rate of restorations. The use of rubber dam still has numerous advantages, such as preventing accidental swallowing of restorative instruments or tooth fragments, protecting soft tissues from sharp instruments, or helping in behaviour management in children. Clinicians still need to practice rubber dam placement, and never using a rubber dam would not be an acceptable approach.

        So you are absolutely correct suggesting that patients ask their dentists to use dental dams. Yet, you can not really say that dental dams offer better dental filling longevity. I, just like you, want people not to misuse the studies to make their point. So, to avoid cherry picking, let's not use small studies, anecdotal evidence or pick out sentences from the articles that do not match conclusions stated in the same articles. We both should follow the same standard, don't you think?

        As for your question about the source of my knowledge, I have a scientific background, not associated with any dental companies or industry.

      • 

        Money Maker Mike on 05/04/2017 - 12:37

        +1

        @Hogg:

        It's true, use of rubber dam is ideal and provides excellent moisture control. The vast majority of dentists DO NOT use rubber dams for routine composite resin fillings as it's not the be all and end all of restoration longevity. Personally I only use rubber dam if I'm working on a lower posterior molar and I find the tongue and saliva too much of a hindrance. I've worked with some of the best dentists in Sydney and none of them use rubber dam routinely for composite fillings. I mean it's great that you do but I don't agree with advising OzBargainers to request rubber dam for every filling because this is a decision for the dentist and dentist only to make. There are other shortcuts that practices like No Gaps Dental take that bother me a lot more - e.g. using glass ionomer cements for large posterior cavities, using an overseas lab for crowns, dentures, etc.

        Also it does sound like the OP is associated with No Gaps Dental…

      • 

        Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 12:47

        @zenx:

        • As I mentioned in my post, cochrane always hedges it's conclusions. Cochrane reviews will never say anything conclusive unless the evidence is almost 100%. They are limited by the studies they review.
        • I am unsure about other scientifc disciplines but systematic reviews in health practice always ends with something along the lines of "We need more research to be sure"
        • That is why health professionals are not technicians. There is no black and white manual to refer to. It's all clinical judgement.
        • Very rarely would a review be able to say they are so sure that clinicians must do it one way only.

        Clinicians still need to practice rubber dam placement, and never using a rubber dam would not be an acceptable approach.

        Cherry picking from your own quote sorry.

        If we want to be super technical then yes I agree. There is no 100% definitive evidence that says rubber dam must be used.

        Here are my lines of thinking:

        • Moisture contamination ruins composite resin fillings (fact)
        • Rubber dam seals the tooth being treated and stops moisture from getting ont he tooth (fact)
        • Rubber dam improves fillings if all else is equal (my inference)
      • 

        Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 12:55

        +1

        @Money Maker Mike:

        I completely agree. Rubber dam is not the only factor in restorative longevity. There are so many things that go into bonding technique. I believe that some dentists can achieve great fillings without rubber dam.

        However all else being equal, rubber dam would provide the most ideal conditions hence why students are made to use it.

        My dental mirror fogs up from patient humidity so it would be worring that a tooth would be subject to the same factors.

        Lets not get too hung up on the rubber dam/no rubber dam debate though.

        There are so many things that constitute poor technique but few that a patient can control so my thinking is this:

        • The patient can't exactly ask the nogaps dentist to "please use proper resin bonding protocols".
        • Rubber dam was just one way I can think that patients going to those kinds of places can help even the odds in their favour.

        Cost cutting measures I can't comment on because I've never worked in one of those clinics but I believe what you're saying.

      • 

        zenx on 05/04/2017 - 13:02

        @Hogg:

        yes, but if there is strong evidence, they will say so and will also make a strong recommendation based on evidence, like in this highlighted review on Chlorhexidine mouthrinses.

        Also, your line of thinking is correct but misses out the point that cotton balls also control moisture and there is no conclusive evidence showing that they are inferior. If you really care about longevity of fillings, we should be discussing the fact that Cochrane reviews suggest that composite fillings are almost twice (!) as likely to fail, when compared to amalgam fillings. Here's something for your facebook discussions with other dentists! :)

        Anyway, I shall stop this discussion right here. I am not disagreeing that dental dams should be used during dental procedures. All I am saying is that we shouldn't accuse other practices of cutting corners by not using dams and compromising filling quality. Also, it's okay to change your mind in light of new evidence, that separates average dentists, doctors, scientists from truly great ones. Hold yourself and others to the same high standard and your practice will succeed as nobody wants to go to clinics with biased dentists who cut corners.

      • 

        Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 13:22

        @zenx:

        Um that link you are pointing to is exactly what I mean. Mouthrinses are pretty clear cut so they say as so.

        Tis true about amalgam fillings and any dentist worth their salt already knows that. A few comments on this:

        • Amalgam is being phased-out for environmental reasons so we will have to get good at composite
        • Amalgam is not as technique sensitive to place (moisture is not a problem) so it is likely to last longer
        • The studies does not compare placing composite in ideal conditions vs amalgam.
        • I recommend amalgam when the situation is right (moisture is hard to control)
        • Not least people hate amalgam fillings.

        I'm not accusing people of purposely cutting corners to compromise quality. Some would agree with you and just not think rubber dam is needed.

        I am merely highlighting that a filling is damn well hard to do right.

        I have used cotton rolls before and my mirror still fogs from the humidity. This is super low level of evidence aka anecdotal though.

        Anyway you are ultimately right. There is no clear cut evidence, I just choose to practice the way that allows me to sleep well at night and that's not very scientific. I have always been a pro scientific person. I am ashamed of myself.

        My departing tl;dr would be:

        • Cochrane review shows some evidence favouring rubber dam but no definitive proof and they recommend further research
        • Dentists should practice what they think to be best practice
        • Patients should be fully informed
        • Cost should be a factor but shouldn't be the be all and end all. We are not buying two identical products
        • Don't get too hung up on the rubber damn point. There are so many other factors in determining filling quality. Rubber dam was just one way I thought patients can actually tangibly affect.
        • Are you sure you're not in the field? Your research of dental articles is on point.
        • Thank you for taking the time to have this discussion with me. I love talking dentistry.
      • 

        zenx on 05/04/2017 - 13:32

        +1

        @Hogg:

        Are you sure you're not in the field? Your research of dental articles is on point

        Scientific training. A good scientist should be able to research and analyse just about anything. Also, thanks, it nice to hear that my scientific skills are good enough to even have discussions with experienced dentists

      • 

        Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 13:35

        @zenx:

        Even better than some dentists :)

        What field are you in? I would happily patronise any establishment that works to such high standards of evidence as you.

      • 

        zenx on 05/04/2017 - 13:39

        @Hogg: just completed a PhD in cardiovascular therapies, now am unemployed (thus have all the time to research dental fillings ;) ) and looking for my next career step. Maybe I should consider working for the Cochrane dental group or something? ;)

      • 

        Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 13:44

        +1

        @zenx:

        Hey there Dr!

        The internet is notorious for being a poor medium to express tone so please read this as me being nothing but sincere.

        I have the utmost respect for anyone with a PhD. You truly deserve the title as opposed to us dentists.

        Hope you're enjoying the intial sheen of the title. That should make unemployment a little more fun. For real though, what are you thinking of doing next?

      • 

        zenx on 05/04/2017 - 14:00

        @Hogg: Thanks :) It's more of a relief having all that behind me. Initially I wanted to go into regulatory/medical affairs, but seems that times have changed and now you have to start somewhere else to gain experience first. Turns out having a PhD does not count as having valuable experience for any of the entry positions I've found. So I am overqualified and lacking experience at the same time, which makes jobhunting fun :(

      • 

        Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 14:42

        @zenx:

        Keep on going mate. You seem to have the brains for it.

        What exactly is regulatory/medical affairs? Sounds like it would be a government/public-based job?

      • 

        zenx on 05/04/2017 - 16:03

        @Hogg: Regulatory is basically all the paperwork to do with approvals of drugs and medical devices, and medical affairs departments provide scientific/medical expertise on drugs and or medical devices. For example, dental instruments (and fillings too!) are medical devices - so they are regulated by TGA and there are many people both in the government and industry dealing with all that paperwork.

      • 

        Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 16:14

        @zenx:

        You sound really passionate it.

        I've subscribed to you now. I'm really interested to see what the future holds for you zenx.

      • 

        pizzacracker on 05/04/2017 - 20:17

        +1

        @Hogg: wow I read everything. I love talking about dentistry

    • 

      abb on 05/04/2017 - 12:49

      +1

      Two questions:

      1. Where is your practice? (I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants to give you some business)

      2. Do you do a basic "check & clean" with no gap?

      • 

        Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 13:07

        1. My intention wasn't to get people to come to see me but if you want the info is in the old post for OZB 10.

        2. Not really because depending on the health fund rebate, I might be breaking even at best. Honestly wages and dental materials are killer.

        I don't know how nogaps does it. Maybe it's economy of scale or it's a loss leader?

        I'll be willing to do the special from the old post if you're interested. If you currently have a great dentist then I encourage you to continue to see him/her.

        My main intention is to raise awareness.

        I don't want anyone to not go to nogaps or any other clinic but I encourage people to be more informed in their decisions. If that can be the takeaway then I'll be happy.

    • 

      Mokr on 26/09/2023 - 16:45

      True but dentist don't make much on fillings. For the time etc.

      To be fair going to a dentist at a chain isn't the best. I find they don't give you options. Or explain stuff as well.

      But depends on dentist

    • 

      RogerLoger on 24/09/2024 - 18:21

      Humidity may explain why my simple, no anaesthetic, filling fell out in eight weeks. The repair was far more comprehensive, including x-ray, partially removing an ancient filling and anaesthetic. I went to pay and was told 'no charge'. I responded, "it was done by a different dentist". The receptionist responded, "the practice will cover it".

  • 

    GoatWade on 26/03/2024 - 17:59

    Covid central

  • 

    Brianqpr on 25/09/2024 - 11:15

    I've heard suggestions that they give fillings etc that aren't needed to exhaust health fund limits. No idea if true.

• 

  D6C1 on 04/04/2017 - 16:39

  +1

  I've been going to nogaps for a while. They will milk the xrays like no tomorrow. I refuse them when they tell me beforehand. If they dont, I let them take them and then when they charge me (as its not covered), I refuse to pay as I wasnt consulted and was only in for specific work :)

  Once you find a dentist at that nogaps you like, its actually good.

  • 

    zenx on 04/04/2017 - 16:41

    +1

    Well, that is not very ethical (of them). I guess it depends on the dentist, as mine didn't offer me an xray until the very end of my appointment when I asked about a wisdom tooth that has been causing issues.

  • 

    mit on 04/04/2017 - 22:34

    So how much time do they spend with you for your check and clean?

• 

  bashar20 on 04/04/2017 - 16:53

  +2

  On their website they claim x-rays are included.
  "Every person with dental cover with any Australian health fund, receives no out-of-pocket expenses for the following treatments; teeth scale and cleaning, x-rays, fluoride and fillings (Conditions apply)."

  • 

    zenx on 04/04/2017 - 17:28

    yes, x-rays are included and you do not have to pay anything extra. I think some people are concerned about reaching their dental cover annual limits quickly due to multiple x-rays being done. In my experience this wasn't an issue as I got only offered an xray at the end of my appointment when I asked about it.

  • 

    pifts on 04/04/2017 - 17:28

    It's included in the claim but they still get paid a lot, just not from us.

    The only thing customers have to be mindful of is bringing your insurance card on the day, or there's an extra fee.

• 

  theHMASfriendship on 04/04/2017 - 17:19

  -2

  This would be a great post on OzNormalPrice

• 

  citygal on 04/04/2017 - 17:27

  +3

  They filled 11 teeth for my bf!!!! Just 2 years ago he saw another dentist n his teeth were fine! Really wondering if they made unnecessary treatments to claim $$

  • 

    zenx on 04/04/2017 - 17:33

    +1

    I didn't need a single filling for years, then suddenly within a year between my checkups three new cavities appeared. This was noticed by a different dentist in a different clinic and then confirmed + fixed at No Gaps Dental. Also, at No Gaps Dental they actually have a dental camera (don't know how it's called) and they took pictures and showed me the actual cavities on a big screen. So, yes, the definitely were there.

    So while 11 new cavities in two years is a lot, it's not impossible. If in doubt or if you don't trust a dentist, seek a second opinion. Right now there's no evidence that they made unnecessary treatments.

    • 

      scrimshaw on 04/04/2017 - 18:35

      +2

      I don't trust the No Gaps Dentists either. I know a lot of good dentists who really take the time to look into my dental problems.

      Most of my experience with No Gaps felt rushed. Conduct was professional, but still felt like I was just a customer in a Gerry Harvey store as opposed to a patient receiving medical advice. They just look at my mouth, quickly concluded I need a filling and an X-ray, and cleaned my teeth.

      The dentists I frequent would not usually do any of the above without having a chat with me first.

    • 

      citygal on 04/04/2017 - 21:17

      +1

      Well now that it's fixed - can't seek 2nd opinions. Also it costs an arm and a leg to do so for 11 teeth

  • 

    Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 08:54

    I have a number of patients who go to a health fund owned place like HCF for cleans but then come to me for fillings or if any problems arise. On the bright-side, it's them saying they trust the quality of my work.

    On the flip-side, it is sometimes hard to clean up someone else's mess or jump into a treatment plan mid-way without a proper check-up.

    Perhaps a way to save money (in the long run) is to have no gaps check and clean because nothing much can go wrong with a clean. The worst that can happen is that the teeth are thoroughly clean which isn't catastrophic.

    Go to someone you trust for fillings.

    It is hard to work like this as a dentist but this is a way to save money if money is tight.

• 

  JohnHowardsEyebrows on 04/04/2017 - 17:40

  +2

  So they charge extra if you're gaptoothed?

  • 

    zenx on 04/04/2017 - 17:41

    +2

    I believe that there's a per gap surcharge, which is waived if you do 10 x-rays. ;)

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  4b11 on 04/04/2017 - 17:41

  +1

  11 free fillings what a bargain who cares if they were needed or not at that price or never mind the biological cost of trading tooth structure for bits of plastic!

  To the OP so businesses can just waive $600 from an $800 bill regularly and still operate in a profitable manner?

  How about you buy this t-shirt from me at 99% off original price was $10000 bargain 🤣

  • 

    zenx on 04/04/2017 - 17:45

    If you believe that three fillings cost $800 ;) I think they make it up by quantity (large number of customers + repeat customers). Give out a big discount on fillings and customers keep on coming back for check-ups, scale and clean and so on. The dentists are kept busy and money keeps on coming in?

  • 

    citygal on 04/04/2017 - 21:20

    +1

    Only if it's free. You will easily blow up your annual dental limit with consultation, X ray and 11 fillings. You need to pay the gap once your annual limit is reached

• 

  spacebanana on 04/04/2017 - 17:41

  +1

  Would love if anyone knew of something like this in Melbourne

  • 

    spacebanana on 04/04/2017 - 17:44

    Also, does anyone know what is stopping you from joining something like the suggested AHM for a few months, getting some optical and dental then quitting? seems like an insurance company would not allow this sorta thing.
    Cheers guys!

    • 

      zenx on 04/04/2017 - 17:47

      I've heard of people doing it. I guess it's not a big issue right now, but if many people would do it they would just start demanding waiting periods + possibly increase their prices to cover the costs associated with those who abuse the system.

  • 

    Piranha2004 on 04/04/2017 - 17:45

    Not exactly the same but i renewed my extras cover with ahm and they mentioned that there is no gap for checkup and clean (once a financial year) at a place called pacific smiles dental clinics. Haven't tried this out but it sounds similar to this deal but specific to ahm policy holders.

    • 

      zenx on 04/04/2017 - 17:48

      I know that there are a couple of clinics which offer no gap check-ups and cleans either for anyone of specific policy holders. Couldn't find any other ones doing no gap fillings though..

  • 

    zenx on 04/04/2017 - 17:52

    +1

    Googled and found this http://www.dentalguard.com.au/ for no gap fillings in melbourne.. One of the website banners says "General dentistry with no gap: examination, fillings, root canal treatment". Not sure if they are any good as I do not have any experience with them..

    • 

      arcticmonkey on 04/04/2017 - 19:29

      Thanks

  • 

    niknah on 04/04/2017 - 17:58

    If you're with Australian Unity, there're a few…
    http://www.australianunity.com.au/health-insurance/cover/fin…

    • 

      odysseus on 04/04/2017 - 20:00

      It doesn't cover the fillings though…

• 

  BargainKen on 04/04/2017 - 17:51

  Had root canal done with them. Obviously the no gap policy didn't cover everything but got a few of the x-rays done free. Usually use them for a clean twice a year otherwise. No complaints otherwise. I believe there are other dentists that do no gap also.

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  buckster on 04/04/2017 - 17:59

  Can always consider HIF as their dental coverage is pretty good, the most I've paid for a check up out of pocket is $1 (without x ray) and you aren't locked into certain places

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  Money Maker Mike on 04/04/2017 - 18:03

  +20

  Dentist here. Just made this account literally to warn you guys.

  There is most definitely a catch. No Gaps Dental undercuts other practices by not only offering no gap checkup and cleans, but also no gap fillings. There are times where patients' health funds pay less than $50 for a filling, which doesn't even cover for the nurse's wage let alone the rent, materials, etc. So how do they make money? They spend less time and take shortcuts with the restorative work. In the long term poorly done fillings can fail, which may necessitate root canal treatment or crowns, costing thousands of dollars. Many of their dentists are overseas trained, and I have seen firsthand the kind of work that I need to clean up.

  Joining a health fund which actually pays decent rebates for dental treatment is more important in terms of value than searching for a dental practice that rushes through treatment. Some of the health funds I recommend are: NIB, HIF and Frank Health. Your dental health is something that you shouldn't be miserly about - you get what you pay for.

  • 

    zenx on 04/04/2017 - 18:18

    +1

    Taking shortcuts and performing low quality treatments that fail? Surely that would result in the dentist in question being suspended from the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency Dental Board registry? Similarly, the dentists being registered with the Dental Board means that they have met certain education, experience, language skill and other standards.

    If what you said is true, you should file a complaint with the board. Otherwise, it just sounds like badmouthing competition.

    • 

      Money Maker Mike on 04/04/2017 - 18:41

      +11

      Suggesting that I am bad mouthing competition is laughable. I work in an area where there is no No Gaps nearby, and where the clientele is completely different. What I am doing however is standing up for the dental profession and standing up for what's right for the general public. Ultimately people go wherever they please but I am trying to help people make informed choices.

      • 

        Tech5 on 26/09/2023 - 17:27

        I guarantee you the above dentist’s clientele and no gap dentals clientele are two completely non-overlapping circles on the venn diagram. There is no competition to speak of and I believe they are purely concerned for your wellbeing.

        Just think about a 50 filling. To do a reliable job, a filling takes anywhere between 20min-50min. A single dental nurse and a single reception adds up to well over $60 in salary an hour. This does not count the dentist, rent, electricity and materials

        Passable dentistry is not reportable to ahpra. Only grossly incompetent. It also requires specific dentist details and a pattern of negligence.

        Speaking as another dentist.

    • 

      MountFranklin on 04/04/2017 - 19:58

      +5

      You do not get disciplined for doing a "passable" job. It's just a lazy job that will cost the patients more later. It's the same with any health profession. Poor and lazy treatment leads to more treatments required.
      AHPRA do not discipline for laziness.
      I work in a different health profession and it is the same for us - cheaper / smaller gap means short cuts.
      Doesn't hurt to try but this is what generally happens.
      I have treated many patients who had no success with the cheaper competition - I guess this is why I can justify my gap :)

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 04/04/2017 - 20:23

      +2

      Minimum standards used to be quite admirable.

      In this era where giant conglomerates strongly influence politics and politics dictate skilled occupation list, which in turn lowers minimum standards to the adjusted lower common denominator… Minimum standards is laughable.

      The unified medical and health board, AHPRA, even accepts non medically recognised "professionals". They're just a glorified ACCC for medicos.

  • 

    Ozbargainlyf on 04/04/2017 - 22:57

    +1

    Completely agree. In the field as well and doing fillings at no gap is impossible, seeing what some of the phf's pay back. There is no way that could cover cost of materials + wages, let alone turn a profit, so somethings gotta give, either seeing obscene volume, or cutting corners.

    • 

      negger on 24/09/2024 - 18:06

      You can finish it in 10 minutes?. The dentists at these places are super efficient. Spend more time if you get the patients you can maximise 😉.

  • 

    dufflover on 05/04/2017 - 00:15

    +1

    Joining a health fund which actually pays decent rebates for dental treatment is more important in terms of value than searching for a dental practice that rushes through treatment.

    They are kinda seperate things. Heck someone deliberately joining a health fund for a no gaps place seems dumb to me as health insurance is the biggest taxed scam of you're relatively healthy. Before the tax and surcharges (i.e. I turned 30…) and the maths changed, I got miles ahead paying for my check up outright and this dentist wouldn't be under the sort of "cost pressures" to do a lazy job.

• 

  FirstWizard on 04/04/2017 - 18:16

  +2

  My only worry is, because my health cover is 65% return (no fixed benefit) they might be able to cover all their costs by marking-up at a higher price, and that might mean I reach the limit in one go.

  • 

    zenx on 04/04/2017 - 18:34

    from my understanding, usually there is a limit in addition to the percentage. So it would be, for example, for procedure A the fund covers up 65% up to $50. So they just can't mark up the price indefinitely. But check with your health cover provider

    • 

      FirstWizard on 04/04/2017 - 21:16

      +1

      Yeah, it covers 65% upto $600/yr.
      So if you mark up to $923, then they get the total $600 in one go.

      Where as, say another dental provider only charge $460 per clean up, you'd be able to get 2 per year if you pay the $300 gap.

      • 

        zenx on 04/04/2017 - 22:07

        What I meant is that some funds (maybe all?) will pay a percentage of the dentist’s fee, up to a set maximum benefit for each item of service (also keeping in mind the annual limit). But that's something you have to check with your fund. In my case, even if they had charged 50% of the full bill to my health fund, it would be comparable to the cheapest dentist from the choice survey.

      • 

        FirstWizard on 05/04/2017 - 10:07

        +1

        @zenx: Gotcha. However, the fine print on my fund does not indicate any maximum per line item. Just the annual limit.

        So they might as well be able to mark up anything that costs $300, where they get just $195 from the health fund, to $461, where they would get the full $300.

        Maybe someone who has been to this place can give an estimate of the price they charge for a clean & scale.

      • 

        zenx on 05/04/2017 - 10:21

        +1

        @FirstWizard:
        In that case the set benefit funds make more sense, thanks for pointing this out!

        I will let you know about the clean and scale cost in a couple of months when I get a clean and scale there. The list prices for the other procedures I had were:
        *$70 for first time examination (code 011)
        *$220 for a filling (code 532)
        *$190 for a filling (code 531)
        *$125 for an x-ray (code 037)

      • 

        Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 10:40

        @zenx:

        What the heck? $135 for an OPG that can be taken at radiology place for free with medicare?

      • 

        FirstWizard on 05/04/2017 - 10:45

        @zenx: Cheers! Might book an appointment myself :D

      • 

        zenx on 05/04/2017 - 10:45

        @Hogg: in my case the health fund covered under $40 which is approximately what other dental practices charge for an xray. I am guessing they have a high list price as many dental covers pay back a set percentage of the price.

      • 

        Hogg on 05/04/2017 - 10:50

        @zenx:

        Protip: Code 037 is for a jaw x-ray. Not the standard small ones which are around $40. The jaw x-rays can be done through medicare with a referral form so that it doesn't eat into your insurance limit.

      • 

        zenx on 05/04/2017 - 11:06

        +1

        @Hogg: that is correct, I had a whole jaw done to see the wisdoms.. I guess those are more expensive and medicare would indeed make sense then.

• 

  savingmoniessxx on 04/04/2017 - 18:17

  +3

  I Know someone that used to work at no gaps. And what Money Maker Mike said was true. Also the worst thing is, when it is really busy at their practice they do not sterilize and clean their instruments properly. Imagine a dentist using a drill and bur, that has been drilled into someone else's infected tooth..its disgusting.. and probably illegal.

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