Advice about backing out from a agreement to sell a bike

Lthefornax on 30/03/2017 - 18:17

Hello,

I had put up my bike for sale for a few months now and a few days back someone approached me with an intention of buying the bike. I was happy for that person to test ride the bike and at the end of it he made an offer for the bike which I agreed to indicating that I will have to check with the finance company about the money owed on the bike and based on that was happy to proceed with the sale provided the numbers worked out. I was given an advance of $250 in cash and in return I provided a written statement on a piece of paper with my signature indicating that I will sell the bike for the discussed amount indicating the 250$ advance was received. At no point was I told that it's a contract and I'll have to proceed with selling the bike. I called up the finance company enquiring about the payout amount and understood I was making a huge loss if I went ahead with the sale of the bike. I immediately informed the interested buyer about the same informing that I'm backing out of the sale and was happy to return the advace paid. However he has been adamant that I can't back out of the sale now. After holding my ground about not wanting to proceed with the sale I received a call from a stranger the next morning who identified himself as a friend of the buyer and kept insisting he is coming to pick up the bike the next day and mentioning several times that they knew where I lived and I can't back out of the sale.

I sent a text requesting the buyer not to contact me further and harrase me about the bike and that I was happy to return the advance paid and was going to report to the police if it continued. And today I received another text from an unknown number which showed that the buyer has lodged an application of injuction in preventing me to sell the bike at ACAT tribunal indicating that it is a rare bike.

I wanted the advice of fellow members to understand if I am at wrong legally in not wanting to sell my bike at a huge loss within 24 hours of agreeing to sell.

Thanks in advance.

Financial

Comments

        • Finde on 05/04/2017 - 01:22

          @johnno07:

          Yeah, maybe sit in a court room and actually watch how they work then. The law is never that black and white. There is always a lot of grey area.

  • pantsparty on 31/03/2017 - 16:18
    +1

    Don't you receive regular statements for the financing on the bike? I am surprised you didn't already know a rough ball park figure of what was owed on the bike. What is the fair market value for a sale - somewhere around what the guy offered you or much higher?

    • DaneD on 31/03/2017 - 16:37
      -1

      Disregard

    • rave75 on 31/03/2017 - 16:57

      I think he forgot to take into account the exit fee.

  • rave75 on 31/03/2017 - 16:35
    +1

    Well OP can sell it at the price stated on the paper. Then the debt will be the responsibility of the buyer and you actually don't need to repay the debt. It is the responsibility of the buyer to make sure there is no financial interest on the bike. Hence why as a buyer, you need to do a financial interest check before buying anything.

  • lainey13 on 31/03/2017 - 16:39
    +11

    Wow you really wasted that buyer's time didn't you?

  • DaneD on 31/03/2017 - 16:40
    -1

    This is 100% a contract, buyer is well within their rights to argue for the purchase. All of the terms of a standard contract have been fulfilled here, even without the written paper.

    Offer - "I'll buy the bike for X"
    Acceptance - OP "Ok that sounds good"
    Consideration - $250 changed hands
    Intent to create legal relations - arguable, but clearly the seller had the INTENT to sell the bike otherwise why would he take the $250 deposit?
    Capacity - Was he drunk or incapacitated, don't think so.

    Probably best if an actual solicitor / someone who deals with the law gives their thoughts - but by the text book definition this is 100% a contract.

    • KaTst3R on 31/03/2017 - 19:04

      This is correct and he also made it black and white which makes wriggling out even harder. Either he has to prove that he backed out within the cooling off period or just return the $250 + a little extra to make them back off.

    • SirFlibbled on 31/03/2017 - 22:44
      +2

      Technical the acceptance was "Ok that sounds good but first I will have to check with the finance company about the money owed on the bike and based on that I will be happy to proceed with the sale provided the numbers worked out"

      As we all know, a conditional acceptance is no acceptance.

      The OP's problem is he then wrote stuff down and the parole evidence rule applies

      • T1OOO on 01/04/2017 - 02:28

        Thanks. Didn't actually know the name of it. :-)

  • cyrax83 on 31/03/2017 - 17:07

    Nope. You are at fault. I hope he takes you to court and he gets the bike.

  • darkchoc on 31/03/2017 - 18:26
    +9

    Yes you've had a stuff up. But don't worry, it happens.

    Tell the buyer he has two options:

    1. But the bike for agreed price and take on the remaining finance in the bike (subject to agreement from finance company).
    2. Take back the deposit of 250 and Wally away.

    Let him know you cannot sell the bike knowing that the finance will transfer to him and he will be at a loss with the outstanding finance as the finance is tired to the bike. You made a genuine mistake and you are sorry. But you cannot pay off the finance and there is no negotiation on that point.

    Nobody can force you to sell your property. Think about all the big retailers taking money for price errors, providing a receipt. then just refunding the amount.

    Ignore the keyboard warriors staying it is a contract that you must honour. To be enforced, it would require a legal order, then am enforcement order. Administratively (maybe even legally) it's just not worth the buyers time, cost and effort.

    Do the right thing, give him the two options, which are both in line with your agreement.

    • KaTst3R on 31/03/2017 - 19:08
      +1

      Big retailers can refund the amount because no one reads the T/Cs when you tick the little box at the bottom of the screen before pressing "Buy". There is usually a clause that protects mis-pricing. When they dont, it is usually out of goodwill.

      • darkchoc on 31/03/2017 - 22:43
        +4

        That's not really the important point in my comment.

        Will you be forced to sell something you don't want to in OP's scenario? No.

        if the finance was not agreed upon, the seller can sell with outstanding finance.

        And OP is not trying to do that.

        Imagine a seller trying to force you to buy a bike with finance because you had paid a deposit and had a signed slip of paper? You wouldn't accept that.

        OP… Give him back his 250.

        You stuffed up a little. But there is no need for a buyer to be an arse. These things happen.

  • canyoudoitcheaper on 31/03/2017 - 21:03

    I know the word 'bikies' is thrown around a lot in these forums, but it sounds like you might actually have to deal with some pretty soon.

    PS. get your own bikies.

  • Shwayne on 31/03/2017 - 22:19

    Whilst I agree you should have had the opportunity to back out, you stupidly provided a contract of sale and took an advance.

    I'd say sell it and get on with your life.

    • darkchoc on 31/03/2017 - 22:49
      +1

      And if you were the buyer learning there is finance outstanding, would you still buy it and get on with your life because you stupidly signed a piece of paper and paid an advance, which made no mention of the finance?

      I think not.

      If i were the buyer (or seller) i would argue the t&cs were not clear and it's best for all parties to cancel.

      Lesson learned. Refund deposit. Both parties walk away no worse off than previously.

  • Your Friend on 31/03/2017 - 23:30
    +3

    OP is a moron on so many levels

    • Cheshire Cat on 01/04/2017 - 23:00
      +3

      the buyer is at least as stupid with the threatening texts including one made up from a gov department.

  • T1OOO on 01/04/2017 - 02:24

    Law lesson 101. If there was an verbal agreement/contract and then there is a written one, anything written superceeds the verbal contract. And basically it means if it's not written down it dosnt exist anymore.

    • Wally on 01/04/2017 - 12:01

      Maybe not, in this instance ..
      "In order for the Parol Evidence rule to be effective, the contract in question must first be a final integrated writing; it must, in the judgment of the court, be the final agreement between the parties (as opposed to a mere draft, for example).
      A final agreement is either a partial or complete integration, provided that it has an agreement on its face indicating its finality."
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parol_evidence_rule

      • T1OOO on 01/04/2017 - 13:18

        That just says the written contract is all that's needed. It can't be vague like $20 for stuff

        • Wally on 01/04/2017 - 13:42

          The vagueness arguably was that both parties were aware of the financial encumbered nature of the bike and had not agreed on how it would be dealt with

        • T1OOO on 01/04/2017 - 15:27

          @Wally: isn't that irrelevant ? It's the sellers responsibility with another party 3rd party

        • Wally on 01/04/2017 - 15:32
          +1

          Seeing it affects the ability of the OP to transfer a clear title of ownership, I think the purchaser might find it fundamental

  • Zee on 01/04/2017 - 05:21
    +1

    I honestly think you opted out of the sale when you realized how interested the buyer was and possibly got even more attached when you found out it was 'rare'.

    Look, there obviously was a reason why you wanted to sell it (and have been for months), so why not proceed with the agreement and sell it to him? What if the poor guy has been dreaming about it and searching for it only to be let down by your sudden change of mind.

    Just lose the headache, sell and dont waste either of your time.

  • Windows7forever on 01/04/2017 - 06:39
    +9

    I'm sick of people coming into these forums airing their self inflicted problems whilst expecting a magic Bullet from the community to fix what they broke. Suck it up and sell him the bike, else I'd be inclined to support his intentions to sue your arse.

    • WT on 01/04/2017 - 11:24
      +2

      or validation of their morals/stupidity

  • c0balt on 01/04/2017 - 12:47

    If you sign a contract and take a deposit then you are very low for nullifying that in a cooling off period because you found out that you will lose money on it. I would think it's the antithesis of this website's mantra to not know your debts.

    Ignorance is no excuse, OP did a scummy thing. Unfortunately for the buyer - there's not much they can do either unless they want to get a lawyer involved (even then it's going to be a stretch to get compensation for a breach in contract in this case considering the item value and cooling off period, it's not like a construction company was waiting for a crane to be delivered) and that would most likely end up being more than the cost of the bike.

  • All Blacks NZ on 01/04/2017 - 13:38
    +2

    I sold my car 2 weeks ago. I had it on sale for about a month before it sold. I dropped the price and got heaps of enquires. But the first guy who came to see it in person, liked it and paid me $1000 straight away and the rest to be paid on pickup. I did have an offer higher than his in the meantime but I had already taken the deposit and didn't want to back out of a sale. Sometimes you have to stick with your decision and do the right thing.

    I am more surprised that you didn't do the math before selling the bike. You didn't know how much the loan was? or now you think you might be able to get more for it?

    I recon, if you have changed your mind, you still might be able to get out of the sale but do the right thing and honour the sale.

  • BertieBrown on 01/04/2017 - 16:54
    +5

    So what happened? Is it just me, it probably is, but do these threads usually never get updated by OP about what happened to their situation?

    • Your Friend on 01/04/2017 - 18:13
      +8

      He made a throwaway account just to post this and then responded to only 2 questions.

      After getting slaughtered by pretty much all the commentors, I don't think he's going to give us any updates.

  • AMLagonda on 01/04/2017 - 18:51

    I Just want to know if the Loan was a car loan for the bike or was it a personal loan?

    If the bike belongs to the bank then the buyer needs to know that it is encumbered and you wont be paying the loan out if this sale goes ahead :)

  • [Deactivated] on 01/04/2017 - 19:53

    you messed up

  • Murpha on 01/04/2017 - 20:03

    "I wanted the advice of fellow members…" - but you only just signed up about 2 days ago!?

  • NickosFoivos on 01/04/2017 - 20:56

    You should have been more careful.

  • cockneylondoner on 01/04/2017 - 21:37
    +1

    I've not heard of such a stupid situation in my life.
    On the one side you have a seller trying to sell something that doesn't legally belong to him (goods on finance are the property of the finance company until all monies owed to them have been paid) and on the other a buyer who knowingly knows that the article is on finance yet still parts with money seemingly thinking that the finance company won't repossess the article if there is still money outstanding on it.
    And for someone to agree a selling price before finding out how much is still owed on the finance agreement beggars belief.

  • adn on 01/04/2017 - 22:20

    I do not understand why it matter what your loan payment was. You put in the market for a few months and negotiate a price that seem to be market value. You were happy to proceed and accept a deposit.

    • doodo477 on 02/04/2017 - 02:56

      My understanding is you cannot force anyone to do anything. If the seller gets cold feet and return the (holding) deposit there isn't much you can do about it other than suing for damages. Although the buyer could put in the purchase contract the penalty for failing to proceed with the sale such as a $1000 termination of contract.

  • cozmo on 02/04/2017 - 03:06

    The OP thanks everyone for their assistance with his homework!

    • [Deactivated] on 02/04/2017 - 06:32

      So In summary: if you accept a deposit, you have sold the vehicle. Get the roadworthy done and wait for the buyer to come back to back to collect their new pride and joy.
      Unless you attached conditions to the sale, like it's running out of rego in a week, collect it by such and such a date or it will be reoffered for sale.
      Not having all your ducks in order re; finance, is just pathetic
      For sellers ; REVs check. $3.60
      If theirs finance owing, it's going to complicate the sale big time, move along, there's heaps more bikes out there for sale especially in winter
      Ps. Also the best time to find good deals on tyres for road bikes

  • Gershom on 02/04/2017 - 10:39

    There is so much wrong with this that it's difficult to know where to begin. Of course you have a contract, YOU wrote it! And no one told you you had a contract? Like who exactly? Who did you think would materialise out of thin air to advise you?

    Sell him the bike at the agreed price and take a good hard look at yourself! Try to at least act like a grown up.

  • abh_gup on 02/04/2017 - 10:39

    IF you are not reSelling, simply return his money and smile it all off. No stamp paper and no transaction of ordinary business, then there is no transaction. ACAT may register numerous cases, not you worry. Do not feel threatened. I'm talking from the view of a practical person, not a legal dummy.

  • Kempe on 02/04/2017 - 11:28
    +1

    I think you should hand over the bike and move on and kick yourself for going about it all wrong ie contacting the finance co AFTER you had agreed to sell.

    Last year I sold an old fishing rod I had for 20 years for $50 but didnt know that the blank was a very sought after "sabre" blank worth over $300.
    I found out before the guy turned up but sold it to him anyway.

    Having been in the car industry I did have a giggle that he probably paid about 5/6k too much for the 4 wheel drive he had

    Swings and roundabouts ….he took me for the fishing rod but some car salesman took him, such is life

  • cnrmlj on 02/04/2017 - 14:22
    +1

    Happy April fools. Oh, its not.

    Whether there is some legal technicality or not, you agreed to sell the bike, the buyer paid a deposit in good faith. Complete the sale and move on with your life. There is no other option.

    And take a few hundred dollars off the final price for being a tool.

  • [Deactivated] on 02/04/2017 - 17:42
    +1

    you owe him the bike. contract or not a promise is a promise. And he owes you a black eye too.

  • skyva on 03/04/2017 - 00:44
    +1

    I believe the following is true:
    There is a contract for sale of the bike (offer, acceptance, consideration).
    Any debt owed on the bike is in the name of the seller. He is responsible for paying the debt as per the debt agreement.

    If the buyer acquires the bike and it is encumbered, the encumbrance only becomes effective if the seller fails to make the agreed repayments. Failing to do so would ruin the seller's credit rating.

    On the facts presented, the sale value of the bike by a financier (ie auction) would be less than the debt, meaning the seller would still owe money on it even after repossession.

    After repossession the buyer would have a claim against the seller for selling a bike they effectively didn't own. Also I believe there is a requirement to notify the buyer about any encumbrance.

    So whilst there is the option to just go through with the agreement and stop paying, it would most likely be financially disastrous for the seller.

    Please let me know if I have any of that wrong.

  • k-rokfm on 03/04/2017 - 10:56

    Any update from the OP on what they did?

  • Mr2gt on 03/04/2017 - 11:45
    +1

    Should have told them the bike broke down and needs major repairs. Probably too late to tell them that now though.

  • mousie on 03/04/2017 - 16:38
    +3

    Cut the bike in half.

  • Meowcat on 03/04/2017 - 20:21

    Say you dropped it and its stuffed and tell them they have to buy it as they signed the contract…. and enjoy the silence ;)

  • donotuse on 03/04/2017 - 23:29

    Lesson in life: do your homework before making big-ish decisions.

  • DiscoJango on 04/04/2017 - 08:33

    no one can force you to sell your bike. the end.

    • bubblebobble2 on 22/05/2017 - 07:12

      Yes he can, cause he has the written note from seller on the deposit as agreement.

  • MiniatureDino on 05/04/2017 - 19:34

    The lesson learned is: If you really wanted to sell your bike then you must have set a price range for that. The thing that you checked your finance company for losses AFTER you made an agreement with the buyer pissed him off.
    Anyways, what you should do now is to tell him that you are not selling your bike at any cost (as you have already done) and if he contacts you again harrassing you then you will probably report to police.

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