In Europe you can buy it even from grocery shops but in Australia it seems like taboo topic, even Google is no help.
I need it for use on skin so it has to be pure and without ANY chemicals.
It's used in hospitals also for acupuncture etc. etc. so where can I buy it?
https://www.google.com/search?q=alcol+etilico&source=lnms&tb…
Where and How Can I Buy Ethyl Alcohol for Medical Use?
dealhunt on 11/03/2017 - 11:26
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I see masseurs and Nurses using it at home so there must be a way around.
Next time, ask them.
I see masseurs and Nurses using it at home so there must be a way around.
You watch masseurs and nurses at home?
Different strokes for different folks!
"pure and without ANY chemicals."
First, ethanol is a chemical. So is water. You can't buy anything "without any chemicals".
Second, you can't buy 100% ethanol as a consumer, because it can be drunk. All ethanol available to consumers is denatured, which means that a bittering agent has been added to make it undrinkable. It's unusual to add methanol now; most are just N-substituted compounds that are intensely bitter but not poisonous (or at least, not as poisonous as ethanol itself). Try googling denatonium benzoate to get an idea.
Third, pure ethanol is extremely expensive because ethanol forms azeotropes with water around 95-96% ethanol by mass. It's extremely hard to get the remaining water out, which costs $$$$. You don't need to do this unless you're trying to do anhydrous chemical reactions (which is somewhat of a stretch in an ethanol medium but I digress). But, hey, ring up Sigma Aldrich Australia. If you're truly after "pure", then you probably want AR grade anhydrous, which is about US$150 per litre (plus shipping), although you're still going to find it's only about 99.5% pure because you still can't get the damn water out (and you can't use metallic sodium wire to mop it up like you do in ether, but again I digress). You may have trouble getting it if you aren't affiliated with a chemistry research lab, however.
Fourth, your skin is a very impermeable membrane. It's hard to get stuff through it (google cornified layer/stratum corneum), and even with a cut, very little gets through. That's why you can use "rubbing alcohol" (isopropanol) for both rubbing and disinfecting, because it doesn't get through skin in normal use. It would be extremely toxic if drunk, but is perfectly safe to use on skin. Hospital grade disinfectant is 70% v/v isopropyl alcohol in water, but you can get higher purity from electronics suppliers who deal with things for making PCBs (try mektronics). You won't need it though; the regular stuff you get in a chemist shop will work. You find lower concentrations of it in some hand sanitisers (others use aqueous ethanol).
Fifth, you can also use on your skin methylated spirits that do not contain methanol. It's perfectly fine, so long as you don't taste it. You're more likely to end up with skin irritation from drying it out if you leave it in contact for a very long time than anything else. Note that even prolonged exposure does not seem to result in detectable amounts of ethanol penetrating the skin and getting into the bloodstream (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596158/). However, inhaling the vapours in a closed room (ethanol has a sort of pleasant fruity smell) will probably result in some detectable absorption into the bloodstream, though less than, say, drinking wine or spirits (which is much more fun, anyway).
Sixth, I'm pretty sure you'll find that the "ethanol" you get in Europe is the same ~96% ethanol in water + bittering agent you get here (perhaps with a more exotic bittering agent, like benzalkonium chloride).
So just go buy rubbing alcohol or meths and stop chasing a mirage.
Show off with a touch of frustrated condescension. Love it.
LOL, I resemble that remark :)
"Fifth, you can also use on your skin methylated spirits that do not contain methanol"
Don't these contain methanol?
Nvm- TIL not any more….
This is not only extremely accurate and detailed, it's very well written. I've been looking for an accessible answer to this question for friends who ask - I will refer them to your post. Bravo.
Thanks!
Chemicals are bad!
OP just wants Ethanol, pure Ethanol, preferably all natural and organic so it can be used for medical use.
You sound like the devil himself!
Its Heisenberg
i have no doubt the person knew what they wanted but had difficulty convincing others of its purpose.
Wait, they use the same bittering agent as Nintendo Switch cartridges?
just use vodka
Vodka will cost ~$50 per bottle
Vodka's barely 40%.
Sounds like you need alcohol that is consumable.In Australia, pure alcohol is a controlled substance.
Not available to the public, only obtainable through government registration AND use for medicinal, scientific, industrial, and educational purposes.
In fact other types of pure alcohol are added with substances or poison (eg Methanol-ends in Methylated spirits) to make them non-consumable.
One justification of this, is to limit alcohol addiction.A lot of "backyard bobs" use pure alcohol to make their own whiskey and purify prescription medication and illicit drugs.
So the government's reasoning on controlling it is very justified.You should be on the look out for 70% Isopropyl, which might serve your needs.
Why would u get vodka or 70%?
Can get 95% consumable alcohol easily at dan murphys for quite cheap
Spirytus Rektyfikowany
Oh wow my mistake. I shouldn't be surprised I guess. Never had a hangover on that, but it never really tasted like much when mixed with drinks.
What you're after sells for much more than Vodka in Australia.
As others have mentioned it is highly regulated and taxed, so unless you have some very genuine need for it (i.e. conservation, extraction (oils - Cannabis, etc.)) no point in trying to source it.
One of the closest retail product for consumption would be:
https://distilleryking.com.au/collections/kings-liquor/produ…
Anything higher will most likely end up at 97-98% as any time it is exposed to oxygen it will absorb some moisture. There are some 99.5% rated Ethanol but you'd be paying through the nose to buy it, and will require a license. Example of pricing below:
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/chemistry/solvents/products.html…
Anything above 96.5% will require additives which aren't nice/suitable for human interaction.
Methylated spirits? Has some chems in it
Buy asian store 70% ethyl alc easily available
I've never heard of ethanol prescriptions in Australia.
Of course you can buy it with a licence from the ATO but it sounds like a lot of hassle. "All-natural" perfumers have a similar dilemma (e.g. https://erlithe.wordpress.com/2013/04/09/perfume-oil-vs-perf…).
But since this is OzBargain you should probably be asking for medical advice instead :)
Very strong alcohol is used to treat ethyl-glycol poisoning. I don't think hospitals tend to keep it around just for that though.
Isopropul alcohol is typically used in Australia as an antiseptic and for massage. I think its kinder on your skin than ethanol, and you can get it at chemists and Bunnings.
There was a discussion about its use vs methylated spirits and ethanol on ozbargain a while back.
There was a discussion about its use vs methylated spirits and ethanol on ozbargain a while back.
Did they conduct a taste test?
I did and I can tell you meth tastes a little strong
You're supposed to mix it with orange juice.
Thanks to everyone for trying to help but it has to be like the one from the Google search.
It has to be at least 90% alcohol and no addictive.no addictive
Too late for the hard core drinkers. :)
…and no addictive
Ha!
Cat's fully out of the bag!!!!!ps. I represent all OzBargain users.
Who so angry
Spirytus Rektyfikowany from dan murphys. 95%
Oh can't edit. Ignore this comment :) just read more
"alcool etilico denaturato", translated from Italin into English, is "denatured ethyl alcohol".
Which, in Australia, we call "metho".
This is practically the same thing: https://www.bunnings.com.au/diggers-4l-methylated-spirits_p1…
Go to a homebrew shop that sells equipment for distilling "essential oils". They'll sell you everything you need to make your own still.
That should be ok though I need it locally and in small quantities.
just so you know, trying to convert this into drinkable alchol will not work and is dangerous.
it is a banned substance because it can also be used to purify certain drugs.
@dealhunt:
He's not trolling, he's right.I've got my hands on the stuff you need by the barrel, but I can't share.
I also won't ; )
(95% + 5% H2O)Supnigs comments are for everyone, not just you, and he's simply punching out a couple of facts.
I don't see trolling.ps. I represent all OzBargain users.
OK, that's trolling…
You are gonna have a very difficult time buying it, considering ethyl alcohol is ethanol. Which is drinking alcohol. Heavily taxed and regulated.
From certain polish groceries you can buy spiritus which is 96.5% ethanol. This is the highest concentration you will be able to buy as anything above this has issues with azeotropes with water meaning a higher concentration is not really possible.
Ethyl alcohol is ethanol which is drinking alcohol. They are the same thing.
I'm looking for got nothing to do with drinkable alcohol.
Yeh, said every druggie lab. Not saying we don't believe in your intent of use, but the law and regulations won't change just because you said you're using it medicinally.
I work in an industry using chemicals.
You seem to struggle with understanding and accepting what others are saying. If your'e as educated and smart as you think you are, you would've found the answer already, or at least provide an educated response to others. Or maybe you have found the answer, but you're refusing to accept and now whinging like a child and being rude.
it doesn't mean you represent (we don't believe) all Ozbargain users.
Let me get this straight.
- One person mentions about converting into drinking alcohol
- a couple of people mention WHY it's heavily regulated (because of possible illegal drug use and drinking alcohol use)
- I say that people here aren't calling you a liar and we're not doubting your intent of use
- You say that what I just said doesn't represent what other OzB users think
You believe a significant amount of users here are calling you are a liar?
You realise Im going by the comments that have been posted right?
Anyone, continue whinging like a child.
Pointless personal attack
yeah it is 'drinking alcohol' if you abuse it. Lets just believe the intentions of purchase is for Herbal, medicinal purposes and respond with productive answers instead of judgment please?
Just because you don't want to drink it doesn't change the fact that it's controlled for exactly that reason, well, that and manufacture of illicit drugs.
Try enquiring with a company that provides lab equipment to the scientific and medical industry, they'll probably give you a straight up answer whether or not you're allowed to buy it and what conditions apply. Your other option is isopropyl, you can buy it from Bunnings although I'm not sure what concentration it is - might only be around the 70% mark.
What you've posted is denatured alcohol anyway meaning it's undrinkable.
A voice of reason and logic! OP take notice.
From Bunnings it's around 80%, you can get 99% IPA from cleaning suppliers. Around $120 for 20L
@dealhunt - did you read the post as commented by xyzzy? It is very informative (I learnt a thing or two myself) and may be helpful to your quandary (particularly the bit about hand sanitiser - could you use this as an alternative perhaps?).
I work in the medical field. We regularly use 90% ethanol however 100% is also readily available. We do not pay duty since it is for medical purposes. We are able to obtain it because we are registered with the relevant government body. You will not be able to obtain ethanol for medical use unless you are a registered medical body (medical centre, pharmacy, hospital etc.) If you try to get it the supplier will carefully vet you and tell you to go away if you are not registered. Sorry backyard medical procedures don't count as legitimate medical use. There is no legitimate way to obtain 100% alcohol other than through the recognised suppliers. No, we are not legally allowed to sell it to you in pure form.
As others have said, high-purity ethanol is not available from retailers in Australia.
You can buy it from lab supply companies with restrictions. And typically you'll have to buy it in bulk which unfortunately does not suit your needs. Here's a list of suppliers:
http://www.australianchemicalsuppliers.com/content/page/etha…
Isopropyl Alcohol is regularly used as an alternative to ethanol where solubility is not an issue. It's also less toxic. You can buy it in small quantities from retailers:
Isopropyl Alcohol 99.8%, medical-grade, 250ml.
Diggers Isopropyl Cleaning Alcohol, 125ml.
- $8.45, https://www.bunnings.com.au/diggers-125ml-isopropyl-cleaning…
- $10.25, https://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/officeworks/p/diggers-is…
Without knowing your intended purpose, it is difficult to help you much more than that.
Bunnings sell 500ml now but it is extremely overpriced @ $24.99 - https://www.bunnings.com.au/diggers-500ml-isopropyl-alcohol-…
I used to buy 2L bottles from Altronics for $26.95 but now they are selling 5L for $54 - http://www.altronics.com.au/search/all/?sr=Alcohol
You can get good deals on eBay. A month or two back I bought 2x1L 100% Iso for $20. Although the listing now shows that they don't send to Brisbane Metro, must have changed recently.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2x1L-FREE-250-Isopropyl-Alcohol-I…
Hit up a cleaning suppl warehouse if you want larger amounts. We get 20L drums for around the $120 mark.
Isopropyl is wonderful stuff.
Diggers is 99%. Jaycar is 99.8%. I would go the Jaycar stuff for sure based on that alone. I use isopropyl alcohol to clean optics (telescopes, telescope lenses, camera lenses).
Warning: It can eat away stuff - be very careful what you clean with it, and make sure you test on a small surface and remove any excess.
From experience I can tell you don't use it to clean your guitars. Got away with that for years before damaging the finish of an older Squier Telecaster…depends on what your guitar finish is made of.
But if it doesn't eat away what you're cleaning, it works magic finger oil and prints, and various adhesives.
Another option is methanol, but methanol is harsher. Isopropyl, methanol and water are the only things I'd ever use for telescope optics.
Pure alcohol is actually less effective as a disinfectant. 70% is actually the most effective concentration.
Sound like pure BS the OP's need for medical reasons.
I've learned so much reading this.
ps. I represent all OzBargain users.
European grocery stores do not sell pure ethanol without a bittering agent to make the liquid unpalatable to drink. That doesn't stop the absolute hard core alcoholics from consuming it however.
Probably the purest ethanol you can buy, no questions asked and without a license, is Rectified Spirits.
http://beerstore.com.au/shop/spirits/polish-pure-spirit-rect…
Or make it yourself using a still from a brewing shop. It will cost you around $2 per litre.
Oh god I am feel so stupid now.
I am also from Europe and was struggling to find pure alcohol for treating my wounds and one guy told me they don't have that for sale here and basically told me to use methylated spirits "because it is the same thing but with undrinkable flavour".
I thought the "poisonous" part was only because it has a high percentage of alcohol, not because they literally put poison in it.
Was I treating my wounds with poison for the past half year?????If you look at the label of Diggers methylated spirits the ingredients are listed as Ethanol. There will be Bitrex in there as well, but the time of putting methanol into methylated spirits to stop people drinking it is long gone. Some governments (NZ for example) realised hard core alcoholics would drink it anyway, so better to make the liquid incredibly unpleasant rather than completely toxic. A relative worked as a registered nurse and witnessed an alcoholic grabbing a bottle of mouthwash and drinking that. Some people will go to any lengths to get their fix.
I don't see a need to use ethanol or methylated spirits for disinfection anyway. Hospitals use 70% isopropyl alcohol swabs prior to injections. I would think that's more than enough.
But methylated spirits is the cheapest option, isopropyl is not on the cheap side.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-75L-Isopropyl-Alcohol-Isopropan…
5.75L for $35. $6 per litre. Bunnings will sell you 20L of metho for $61, so isopropyl is about double the price. Not too bad.
Just how much skin lotion do you need?
May I suggest treating your wounds with something else? Wound care has come a long way in the last 20 years and pure alcohol is not on the list, suggest seeing a specialised wound nurse.
It is mostly small cuts and bloody bruises, I don't think I need a nurse for that.
And hey, it works.
Thursday Island Tea tree oil [ i.e. not a fake 20% solution of melalucca oil sold as tea-tree oil] will do far more with just a drop or to dripped onto a pad [ or direct] past the plastic neck plug, and will be soothing rather than stinging like the alcohol.
If your healing depends on getting the sting, man up and get a packet of cayenne pepper:-p]@terrys: I think rubbing salt in the wound would be better for getting that sting. Though reasonably concentrated saline solution would be better.
I can think of so many other less painful and less scarring things that work too!
No. Methanol, which is added to methylated spirits along with foul tasting compounds such as pyridine - is the simplest alcohol, CH4O, as opposed to ethanol, C2H6O, and when you drink it, it is metabolized first to formaldehyde and then to formic acid.
This is considered a "bad thing".
Dealhunt's protestations that he isn't looking for " drinking alcohol " are seen as silly and pointless as someone arguing that they don't want salty water, they want saline.I thought the "poisonous" part was only because it has a high percentage of alcohol, not because they literally put poison in it.
You were right the first time - the alcohol (ethanol) itself is a poison if enough is consumed.
Historically methanol (wood alcohol) was added to ethanol to make in unfit for consumption. Unfortunately, methanol is far more poisonous than methanol. Sometimes desperate alcoholics couldn't help themselves and sometimes substitution was done by criminals. There are plenty of stories about this from prohibition era US and it still goes on in some parts of the world apparently
Today denatured alcohol is still known as methylated spirits in Australia, but it hadn't contained methanol for decades. Checkout the Safety Data Sheet
"Unfortunately, methanol is far more poisonous than methanol."
Just stated the same thing twice in this sentence.
(Not trying to be rude..just saw your post as informative so i thought i should let you know)
Yes. It should read:
Unfortunately, methanol is far more poisonous than ethanol.
Nice constructive criticism… so many asses on the internet these days
They dont put poison in it anymore. Intentionally poisoning something for tax purposes is insane in modern times.
They use disgusting bittering agent so it tastes horrible and might cause vomiting, but its not poison.
Lemon essence is 85% alcohol (obviously foodgrade) and you can buy it by the litre from online food supply shops if you have an abn.
i think op mentioned he only has adsl no nbn
I meant Australian Business Number :)
Bikies?
Can't believe I had to scroll this far in the comments to find the bikies option!
I am uneducated in this matter and I don't represent all Ozbargain users.
according to him/her, I am also an unworthy son. Oh, the pain.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/290424#comment-4515279
OP is obviously so upset and hurt that he wants to censor anything that he doesn't like to hear, even if it's the truth and is actually relevant and helpful.
@Ughhh:
I'm waiting on what the OP's response will be when traffic police stopped them for a random check:
"I do not consent!"
"I do not consent!"
"I do not consent!""You do not represent all Police Officers!"
"You do not represent all Police Officers!"
I need it for use on skin
It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again….
It does whenever it is told
Consumers cannot buy 90%+ ethanol with no additives without paying the excise in Australia (or anywhere in Europe that I know of). Otherwise people would drink that and not any other alcoholic drink.
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I think its a controlled substance in this country, you might even need a license to buy it.